DAC suggestions $6k and under?

It just started hissing last week, so it’s not a long term thing. Maybe I’ll send it in for repair and then sell it, or maybe I’ll just consign it to the scrap heap. Of course, if someone here wants to buy it cheap and do the repair themselves, that’s an option too. Regardless, I’m moving on to a new DAC after 6+ years with this one. There seems to be the impression that we hated the DSJ - we didn’t. The technical glitches were the source of the frustration, not the sound.
 
PS Audio are a great ideas company. They invented the power cord genre, the digital lens, AC power regeneration, plus a few others. Their weakness has always been turning those great ideas into reliable products that work as advertised. The DS Junior was no exception. I owned one. It never worked properly.
 
Personally, I'm not understanding the hunt. I respect we all have different approaches. Mine would be if my DAC went out is to look for one at least as competent, but it's usually my excuse to shoot even higher than I was at.
 
So far I'm finding both of these relatively inexpensive DACs (SMSL D400ES and Topping D90SE, to be specific) to be considerably more competent than the DSJ. More life, more energy, deeper and tighter bass, crystalline highs, veils lifted, the whole audiophile 9-yards. Haven't really found a downside yet. Certainly not enough to make me want to spend 6x more on a Holo May or Bricasti M3, at least not at this early stage of things. Now, it is a very literal rendition of the music - no color or editorials added. It's a very different sound from the PS Audio, which was all about smoothing things out and adding a little 3rd-order euphoria. So I guess we've figured out that I like the more analytical side of digital conversion. Maybe that's because I was never a vinyl guy, and have generally disliked the sound of tubes. Anyway, it's early days, and maybe I'll find the warts as I move through different music. Time will tell. Not sure which of the two is my favorite yet, though. They're quite similar to each other, but not identical.
 
2FlyingYorkies said:
..and have generally disliked the sound of tubes..
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I wasn't a tube guy until on a whim I bought the Ayon Audio Stealth DAC which has a tube output stage. For its price I was very impressed. Tonight I'm listening to music on my old Krell Foundation 7.1 processor. As much as I hate to say this, I'm not missing my Esoteric Grandioso stack at all. I'm very content with what I'm hearing.
 
I have owned several W4S components, and if you like the Stage 2 as well as I did. A true giant killer if there ever was one. I might suggest the W4S DAC, a perfect matching combination. I have owned their DACs and they and they are excellent.

It does come down to your usage of course.
 
brodricj said:
I wasn't a tube guy until on a whim I bought the Ayon Audio Stealth DAC which has a tube output stage. For its price I was very impressed. Tonight I'm listening to music on my old Krell Foundation 7.1 processor. As much as I hate to say this, I'm not missing my Esoteric Grandioso stack at all. I'm very content with what I'm hearing.
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When did you get rid of your Esoteric Grandioso stack? I missed that.
 
I like my Bryston BDA-2, they are going for around $900 used now. Has AKM D/A and discrete class A analog output. If you don't need HDMI inputs, it's significantly cheaper than the current BDA-3.
 
Pick up a used QB9 DSD and have it upgraded to the QB9 Twenty, or just buy a used QB9 Twenty, probably amongst the best you can buy for <=$10K new.
 
2FlyingYorkies said:
So far I'm finding both of these relatively inexpensive DACs (SMSL D400ES and Topping D90SE, to be specific) to be considerably more competent than the DSJ. More life, more energy, deeper and tighter bass, crystalline highs, veils lifted, the whole audiophile 9-yards. Haven't really found a downside yet. Certainly not enough to make me want to spend 6x more on a Holo May or Bricasti M3, at least not at this early stage of things. Now, it is a very literal rendition of the music - no color or editorials added. It's a very different sound from the PS Audio, which was all about smoothing things out and adding a little 3rd-order euphoria. So I guess we've figured out that I like the more analytical side of digital conversion. Maybe that's because I was never a vinyl guy, and have generally disliked the sound of tubes. Anyway, it's early days, and maybe I'll find the warts as I move through different music. Time will tell. Not sure which of the two is my favorite yet, though. They're quite similar to each other, but not identical.
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Any additional feedback on the two DACs?
 
Just learned of the Lab12 Ref DAC1 at $3290.00 which is said to sound outstanding. It's a non-oversampling DAC. However, it does use a couple of triode tubes in the output. Part-time audiophile did a review. Also, the person who told me about the DAC says it sounds better than a slightly more expensive DAC I was talking about, for what that is, worth.
 
Mr Peabody said:
Did you hear one first or buy on chance? We have the same ACS10, how would you describe the May sound?
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I watched a few reviews and even spoke with the re-seller in more detail. My system is extremely revealing. The DAC is very detailed but without sacrificing musicality. It provides a highly detailed robust bass without it sounding sloppy. Both mids and highs are very clear and natural sounding. The DAC provides a very relaxing and enjoyable presentation in my system. Even after 9 months of ownership, it's still a jaw-dropping experience for me. The build quaility is 2nd to none.
 
Sorry for the delayed reply - lots of family over the holiday weekend, so we didn't do any additional critical listening until this weekend. We're using a fairly diverse playlist with everything from Mahler to Daft Punk, most with known good studio recordings, some super-clean EDM, and a few live and raw concert performances from the 70s and 90s. Source has been my Aurender, both from locally stored tracks and streamed from Qobuz. Bitrates range from 16/44 redbook CD to 24/192 and DSD256, all fed through via USB.

The SMSL D400ES can best be described as "honest". I can't find anything it's adding to the sound anywhere in the frequency band. Dynamics are excellent, bass extension is rather remarkable, and high end clarity is very good. Imaging is solid and soundstage is as broad and deep as I'm willing to accept as believable. No "digital sheen" that I can detect, and I tend to be a walking brightness and sibilance detector. Not as emotional of a sound as the Topping, but don't take that to mean it's boring. It's just not adding anything extra. I keep wanting to turn things up louder than normal, which is usually a sign that there's nothing fatiguing and I'm enjoying the ride. The box is nicely constructed and comes with a clear color display, but there's nothing fancy about any of it. The industrial design could be better, but considering the price point, probably not much.

The Topping D90SE is very similar to the SMSL in overall sound, except that it adds a more atmospheric element, in the sense that there's more low frequency growl at times that gives a sense of space and environment. It generally sounds good (to me), and adds an extra bit of excitement, but honestly I'm hearing it in some recordings that I'm pretty sure shouldn't have it. It's perhaps somewhat in line with how the DSJ presented things (just without all the 3rd order distortion). The rest of the presentation is generally clean and correct. I jsut get the impression that there's a little extra editorial color being added to the music somewhere in the analog stage. This one is more utilitarian looking than the SMSL and is slightly more compact, too. The display is OLED, but oddly is rendered in a very range of old-school looking 7-segment LED and pixel-graphics fonts.

At the moment I have a mild preference for the Topping, and my wife has a strong preference for the SMSL. We both agree there's no going back to the DSJ even after it's repaired, as it's completely outclassed by both of these DACs. We're also both rather amazed at the performance that's available for $8-900 these days. Does it feel odd to be seriously considering a long term relationship with a DAC at this price point? Yeah, kind of. There's no eye candy here, but my DAC lives in a (well ventilated) cabinet where you can't see it anyway. For someone who likes a digital presentation that's heavy on detail, honesty, and full-range clarity, with little to no added color, both of these devices are the real deal.
 
I'm seriously looking at an exaSound s82 Mark II at around $8k. A little more than the $6k limit, but includes a Roon Core, on-board SSD storage, streamer and great DAC in one unit. So, seems like a great value for the money.
 
For the sake of closing the loop on this thread, I wanted to report back that we ended up picking the Topping D90SE. In the end, the extra energy and emotion sounded better with the types of music we listen to most. It ends up being the best of all worlds - my brain is happy that it's a technically correct DAC (i.e. the measurements are nice), my ears are excited about the sound, and my wallet is pleasantly surprised at the unexpected savings over what I was expecting to spend.

Perhaps I can best sum it up by saying it sounds an awful lot like a Meitner MA3, but with a zero (and more) missing from the price tag. Not quite as smooth on the top end as the Meitner, lacks the built-in streamer (that I don't need), and isn't anywhere near as flashy looking, but the sound really is shockingly similar.

And if, over time, I find something I don't like about this unit, it's frankly cheap enough to just move on and not worry about it.
 
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