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  1. #1
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    Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Currently using Aurender N20 music server/streamer with Esoteric K-01XD DAC/CD-SACD unit. The Aurender N20 is connected to the K-01XD via USB. My digital listening is 50/50 streaming v. optical media (CD/SACD).

    I need some guidance on which Cybershaft clock to consider. I've had numerous exchanges with Kenji Hasegawa of Cybershaft, but once I go to the Cybershaft web shop I come away confused.

    I have focused on the 4 input models, primarily the OP21A-D and OP21E-D. I am not certain (in addition to the price) what the differences between the two are aside from a slightly lower "Allan Deviation.”

    Based on Mr. Hasegawa's recommendation any model I purchase should include the external power supply. Should the "spike insulators" also be considered a must have?

    I will be eternally grateful for any insight and help in narrowing down the field. Thanks- Matt
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  2. #2
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Good questions! I look forward to the information as I’ve been considering a Cybershaft for my Esoteric N01XD.
    _______________

    Mike

    Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
    Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
    Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
    Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
    Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
    Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
    Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
    Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
    ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
    Rack: Artesania Exoteryc

  3. #3
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    And why not an Esoteric master clock generator?
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  4. #4
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    And why not an Esoteric master clock generator?
    The Esoteric is beyond the budget allocated for this part of the system. Unless Mike is feeling the urge to make me an offer I can’t refuse.
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  5. #5
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Whether you use Cybershaft or Esoteric, you're still going to be up for a $2K clock cable per device that needs to be figured into the budget.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  6. #6

    Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    [mention]SCAudiophile [/mention] is the Cybershaft expert.

  7. #7
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Still looking for information regarding the proper Cybershaft clock for my system. My confusion surrounds whether I should get a single or multiple output master clock.

    Reading the Aurender N20 and and Esoteric K01XD manuals, it appears that an external clock will have no effect when the 2 devices are connected via USB. Am I mistaken?

    Anyone using an external clock with an Aurender server/streamer connected via USB to an Esoteric transport/DAC?

    I've reached out to the manufacturers but have not heard back.
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  8. #8
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Do the multiple. You can then clock the aurender off it too. Different ohm rated cable, but the Cybershaft has adjustments on the back to accommodate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  9. #9
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do the multiple. You can then clock the aurender off it too. Different ohm rated cable, but the Cybershaft has adjustments on the back to accommodate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Hey Mike, thanks for the suggestion. I think I am leaning in that direction.

    I did hear back from Aurender and it appears there are 2 use cases for an external clock in my current system based on which digital input is utilized on the DAC (K-01XD).

    Use case 1 is continue to use the asynchronous USB connection between the N20 and K-01XD and connect only the K-01XD to an external master clock. The external clock should improve the overall signal path of the DAC and everything connected to it. Aurender made it clear that connecting the N20 to the external clock should have no effect while using USB. In this application a single output external clock could be used with one clock cable.

    Use case 2 is to connect both the N20 and K-01XD to the external master clock and use the S/PDIF or optical digital input of the DAC (the K-01XD has 3 digital inputs; USB, optical, and S/PDIF via RCA) to connect to the N20. This scenario requires an appropriate digital cable, a 2 output external clock and an additional clock cable.

    It seems impossible to predict which scenario would sound better without trying both. I asked Aurender if there are an problems with connecting 2 digital outputs at the same time. This could make comparing the sound of the different inputs/outputs somewhat easier by being able to toggle between them with the remote on the K-01XD.

    Waiting to hear back from Aurender but leaning towards trying one of the alternative digital outs on the N20.
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  10. #10
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mxk116 View Post
    Hey Mike, thanks for the suggestion. I think I am leaning in that direction.

    I did hear back from Aurender and it appears there are 2 use cases for an external clock in my current system based on which digital input is utilized on the DAC (K-01XD).

    Use case 1 is continue to use the asynchronous USB connection between the N20 and K-01XD and connect only the K-01XD to an external master clock. The external clock should improve the overall signal path of the DAC and everything connected to it. Aurender made it clear that connecting the N20 to the external clock should have no effect while using USB. In this application a single output external clock could be used with one clock cable.

    Use case 2 is to connect both the N20 and K-01XD to the external master clock and use the S/PDIF or optical digital input of the DAC (the K-01XD has 3 digital inputs; USB, optical, and S/PDIF via RCA) to connect to the N20. This scenario requires an appropriate digital cable, a 2 output external clock and an additional clock cable.

    It seems impossible to predict which scenario would sound better without trying both. I asked Aurender if there are an problems with connecting 2 digital outputs at the same time. This could make comparing the sound of the different inputs/outputs somewhat easier by being able to toggle between them with the remote on the K-01XD.

    Waiting to hear back from Aurender but leaning towards trying one of the alternative digital outs on the N20.
    I would do Use Case 2. I’ve tried both.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  11. #11
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    That looks like the best alternative. I have a Kimber Select S/PDIF RCA cable on hand that I’ll try once I order the master clock. Which Cybershaft are you using?
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  12. #12
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Case 3: Sell a child or wife or something valuable and buy G1X.

    Alternatively, Case 2. No need for dual output clock, just split the single output with a BNC tee.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  13. #13
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    Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    You ideally want 50 ohm for Esoteric, 75 ohm for Aurender - output and 50 ohm and 75 ohm cables to match.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  14. #14
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I would do Use Case 2. I’ve tried both.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    To close the loop regarding A/B comparisons of the USB and S/PDIF connections on the N20, according to Aurender the N20 "sends the same info to all digital outs simultaneously so all outputs are live at all times."

    This confirms for me that Use Case 2 is the best path forward for me.
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  15. #15
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Hi

    I have the same doubt... but as far as I understand, I think that Esoteric K01XD and K03XD only play DSD128 / DSD256 / DSD512 by USB, so:

    Case 1: all the DSD resolutions with the clock only connected to the Eso,
    Case 2: one clock connected to both machines but only plays DSD 64

    Am I wrong?

    Thanks!

  16. #16
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Based extensive fiddling with upsampling a wide variety of CDs on my K-01XD, I would not get too hung up on which setup accommodates the highest resolutions. I play mostly classical music with a smattering of jazz and other. My conclusions were that the best, most realistic sound was almost always with the Esoteric default - no upsampling. I would expect similar with music streamed over the internet, but perhaps not for >192Kb resolution recordings streamed locally, depending on how the original master recording was produced. Obviously YMMV (as may mine as I travel further down this road).

  17. #17
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanra View Post
    Hi

    I have the same doubt... but as far as I understand, I think that Esoteric K01XD and K03XD only play DSD128 / DSD256 / DSD512 by USB, so:

    Case 1: all the DSD resolutions with the clock only connected to the Eso,
    Case 2: one clock connected to both machines but only plays DSD 64

    Am I wrong?

    Thanks!
    What is your network transport?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  18. #18
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Hi!

    Y digital chain is Synology NAS - Lumin U1 - Esoteric K03XD (with Cybershaft OP21E-D)

    When I stream QOBUZ I use the Lumin app, and if I want to play my files I run Audirvana in a Mac Book Pro (between the NAS and the Lumin)



    I am thinking of a server or streamer with master clock input, maybe Aurender N20, but for me Audirvana and ISO files are a strong marriage; so the Esoteric N03T maybe instead of Lumin...

  19. #19
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanra View Post
    I think that Esoteric K01XD and K03XD only play DSD128 / DSD256 / DSD512 by USB
    That is correct.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  20. #20
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    To update the thread, I finally placed my order for the Cybershaft master clock; model OP21A. I must have gotten the last one since the Cybershaft web shop now shows it as "sold out."

    Kenji Hasegawa has been exceptional to work with while I figured out what to purchase. Suncoast has hooked me up with Shunyata Sigma V2 clock cables (75 ohm for the Aurender N20 and 50 ohm for the Esoteric K-01XD).

    I have asked Hasegawa-san this question and have not received his reply so allow me to pose it to this audience; I am using 2 of the 4 clock outputs on the Cybershaft master clock. Should I use shorting plugs on the unused outputs?

    As always, any guidance is appreciated.
    Preamp; WestminsterLab Quest with w/ Audioquest Dragon source PC (C15)
    Interconnects; Nordost Valhalla V2 XLR
    SACD Player/DAC; Esoteric K-01XD w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Music Server/Streamer; Aurender N20 w/ Shunyata Omega QRs PC (C15)
    Digital cables; Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock (50 Ω & 75 Ω), Nordost Valhalla V2 S/PDIF
    Amplifier;Westminster Lab Rei Monoblock w/ Westminster Lab Ultra PC (C15) x 2
    Speakers; Magico A5 w/Apods, Westminster Lab Ultra speaker cable
    Power; Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Sigma XC PC (C19)
    Grounding; Nordost QKore6 w/ premium and standard grounding wires
    Master Clock; Cybershaft OP21A-D Ultra Precision OCXO 10MHz w/ UpTone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply
    Network switch; Nordost QNET 5 Port Network Switch w/ QNet Stand and Nordost TC SORT Kones, Shunyata Omega Ethernet

  21. #21
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    No. But why would you even think of doing this? You have me confused.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  22. #22
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mxk116 View Post
    ..75 ohm for the Aurender N20 and 50 ohm for the Esoteric K-01XD...
    Moot point, but for K-01XD BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used for 10MHz clock synchronization signals.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  23. #23
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    No. But why would you even think of doing this? You have me confused.
    Received this from Hasagawa-san this morning (bold font added for emphasis). I hope this helps anyone else who has wondered about this;

    "Thank you for your email.
    For the four unused output channels of the OP21A-D, we recommend connecting a 75ohm terminator.
    A 75ohm terminator can prevent reflected waves from unused terminals.
    The reason for 75ohm is that the circuit current is less than that of 50ohm termination, so the load on the circuit is lighter.
    The product comes with three 75ohm terminators, so you don't need to supply your own."

    In a subsequent exchange, Mr. Hasegawa shared that it is unclear exactly how these reflected waves are manifested in the performance of the master clock or in the signal path. He did emphasize that the effect is minor and the frequencies emitted by the unterminated clock outputs may effect other devices more than the master clock itself. In fact Cybershaft does not terminate unused terminals when performing the final calibration of their products. This supports the low impact of the “reflected waves” of unused/unterminated outputs on the performance of the master clock.
    Last edited by mxk116; October 13, 2022 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Update information
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  24. #24
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    You asked about shorting plugs. Shorting plugs provide a zero ohm resistance across the output. i.e. the output sees a short. A 75 ohm terminator is different. It provides a resistive load across the output. The output does not see a short.
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  25. #25
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Moot point, but for K-01XD BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used for 10MHz clock synchronization signals.
    With Esoteric or any other, the cable spec should match what the Esoteric expects. 50 and 75 ohm cables should not be considered interchangeable if the clock input on the device says it expects 50 ohm (or vice versa).

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  26. #26
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mxk116 View Post
    Received this from Hasagawa-san this morning (bold font added for emphasis). I hope this helps anyone else who has wondered about this;

    "Thank you for your email.
    For the four unused output channels of the OP21A-D, we recommend connecting a 75ohm terminator.
    A 75ohm terminator can prevent reflected waves from unused terminals.
    The reason for 75ohm is that the circuit current is less than that of 50ohm termination, so the load on the circuit is lighter.
    The product comes with three 75ohm terminators, so you don't need to supply your own."

    In a subsequent exchange, Mr. Hasegawa shared that it is unclear exactly how these reflected waves are manifested in the performance of the master clock or in the signal path. He did emphasize that the effect is minor and the frequencies emitted by the unterminated clock outputs may effect other devices more than the master clock itself. In fact Cybershaft does not terminate unused terminals when performing the final calibration of their products. This supports the low impact of the “reflected waves” of unused/unterminated outputs on the performance of the master clock.
    Definitely agree....terminators are superior to shorting plugs.

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  27. #27
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You ideally want 50 ohm for Esoteric, 75 ohm for Aurender - output and 50 ohm and 75 ohm cables to match.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Yes....best to follow the spec of the input as given in the manual and match the cable to it. RTFM...they are there for a reason Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

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  28. #28
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do the multiple. You can then clock the aurender off it too. Different ohm rated cable, but the Cybershaft has adjustments on the back to accommodate.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Spot on...I am with Mike on this one for sure.

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  29. #29
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Happy to help with any specific questions on the Cybershaft clocks I have used and the one I currently own (about 4 years old) plus current models.

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  30. #30
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
    With Esoteric or any other, the cable spec should match what the Esoteric expects...
    Esoteric says it doesn't matter.

    Screen Shot 2022-10-14 at 04.07.20.png
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  31. #31
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Esoteric says it doesn't matter.

    Screen Shot 2022-10-14 at 04.07.20.png
    My opinion comes for 4-5 months participation daily in a large double-blind trial of MANY cables of mixed specs, 50-ohm, 75-ohm, 50 ohm with
    75 ohm connectors and 75 ohm with 50-ohm connectors, different levels and sources for the cable body/wire, etc....

    We did not find out the complete list of cables we were all testing on a mix of Esoteric, DCS, and other systems that thrive on master clocking
    and/or word clocking until all test results were assembled. All cables had no markings and were all simple black tech-flex. Colored tape labels
    with "A", "B"..or similar markings were used.

    Sonically, based upon extensive listening by multiple people, none of whom knew who else was involved until after the trials were complete,
    every single person's notes wound up validating that there was sonic impact to the mixing impedance either with wire or connector spec or
    overall regardless of equipment or type of clocking used.

    I am not saying that what you copy-pasted is entirely false, only that my experience has led me to a different point of view that I stick with.
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  32. #32
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    [mention]SCAudiophile [/mention] is the Cybershaft expert.
    Thank you! (Just a customer with quite a few years and several models in my history; happy to help! )

    Quote Originally Posted by mxk116 View Post
    The Esoteric is beyond the budget allocated for this part of the system. Unless Mike is feeling the urge to make me an offer I can’t refuse.
    The Grandioso G1X is a beautiful piece and I've heard it work its magic with a P1X/D1X stack. Esoteric's finally moving to an OCXO approach is very welcome.

    The casework is also beyond beautiful and just so happens to match my P1/D1 stack.

    The test performance when it comes to phase noise, Allen Variance and therefore effective jitter for the G1X and the top Cybershafts are at least identical
    so if someone does not want to spend 4X the price on the G1X and/or doesn't want Grandioso case-matching (and Esoteric battleship build standards)
    you don't give up any (musical improvement) ground with a Cybershaft OP21 or OP20. The same could be said of a Sforzato master clock (much more expensive
    just like the Esoteric and from early reports perhaps even the SOULNOTE/Sforzato-OEM collaboration though I have no direct knowledge there.

    The Grandioso G1X is fantastic; none of this post is speaking against it or any other Esoteric clock.
    I am obviously an Esoteric and Grandioso fan, and have used 3 Esoteric clocks bought new in my own system in years past.

    There was also a question during the time I was off forum for many weeks regarding the spiked footers. Yes they are well worth it from all reports.
    Personally I have mine on Stillpoint Ultra SS with the bases. For platform, that all sits on a Townshend Seismic vibration platform I added 2+ months
    ago with a nice uplift.
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  33. #33
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    If I recall correctly, Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable. The only difference are the BNC terminations. And I think he said for interconnect clock cable lengths the impedance doesn't matter, whether you use 50 or 75. The 10Mhz clock frequency = 30m wavelength. Way way longer than interconnect cable lengths. And the Mexcell clock cable built by Acrolink for Esoteric is 75 ohm. They don't build a 50 ohm clock cable. So all that adds up to say it doesn't matter. But whatever electrical engineering theory dictates, the objective listening test are quite compelling.
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  34. #34
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post

    The test performance when it comes to phase noise, Allen Variance and therefore effective jitter for the G1X and the top Cybershafts are at least identical so if someone does not want to spend 4X the price on the G1X and/or doesn't want Grandioso case-matching (and Esoteric battleship build standards) you don't give up any (musical improvement) ground with a Cybershaft OP21 or OP20.
    ..
    My question is. Will I get G1X performance out of my G-02X if I connect its CLOCK INPUT to the top Cybershaft OP21?
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
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  35. #35
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    If I recall correctly, Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable. The only difference are the BNC terminations. And I think he said for interconnect clock cable lengths the impedance doesn't matter, whether you use 50 or 75. The 10Mhz clock frequency = 30m wavelength. Way way longer than interconnect cable lengths. And the Mexcell clock cable built by Acrolink for Esoteric is 75 ohm. They don't build a 50 ohm clock cable. So all that adds up to say it doesn't matter. But whatever electrical engineering theory dictates, the objective listening test are quite compelling.
    Esoteric-Mexcel used to build an incredible cable that was 50-ohm, the 8N-A2000. I had two...
    Legacy Audio Valor+Wavelet v2, Esoteric S-02 Amps HDPlex 300W, RevAudio Labs DC Umbilical, Esoteric Grandioso P1, P1PSU & dual D1 DACs, Cybershaft Prem Ltd OP21A 10 MHz Clock, Esoteric C-02X, Shunyata Everest 8000 & Altaira SG-NR hubs, Sigma SGC/CGC ground cables, VTX-Ag ground tails, AfterBurner8 duplexes, CSP Inc Q4B, S2B IEC plates, Shunyata Omega CLOCK-50 cables, Tubulus Concentus HDMI, Elrod Master Series Diamond SE & Masters Series Gold Power cords and Statement Gold XLRs, Diamond XLRs & Master Series Diamond XLRs, Shunyata OMEGA QR-s power cable, Anaconda Z-tron XLR, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Adona Zero GX3, GX2, GX racks, Composite Audio CF-2010, Townshend Audio Podiums, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints Ultra SS w/Ultra Bases, pArtScience 64-well, 2D QRD 3-inch SpaceArray Diffusors

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  36. #36
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    ..... Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable. The only difference are the BNC terminations. And I think he said for interconnect clock cable lengths the impedance doesn't matter, whether you use 50 or 75. The 10Mhz clock frequency = 30m wavelength. Way way longer than interconnect cable lengths.
    The part about the length was a quote from him regarding whether digital clock cables of typical lengths could become "transmission lines" if memory serves.

    "Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable."

    I will check on this however I highly doubt it; even Pasternack and other big suppliers provide specific cable products for specific impedances (I've done some DIY 50 and
    75's). The only move you could reasonably pull would be using 50-ohm in place of 75-ohm for reasons I'll not go into here.
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  37. #37
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    My question is. Will I get G1X performance out of my G-02X if I connect its CLOCK INPUT to the top Cybershaft OP21?
    Having the Cybershaft OP21 (or any superior 10 mHz master clock) "discipline" and serve as master to the G-02X will definitely be of benefit; quite a bit in fact.

    You get G1X performance out of the Cybershaft OP21 (or since Cybershaft OP21 was technically here first you could reverse that sentence )

    There is no way to say conclusively however that using the Cybershaft to discipline the G-02X and that the result (which is highly dependent on the G-02X output
    in this combo) would be equal to the G1X without actually setting it up and trying it with extensive A/B.
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  38. #38
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
    Esoteric-Mexcel used to build an incredible cable that was 50-ohm, the 8N-A2000. I had two...
    I had 7N-DA6100v3 which was the top Mexcel clock cable. It was specified at 75 ohms. Acrolink had stopped making the 50 ohm cables when I bought the 7N-DA6100 (which was about 4 years ago).
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
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  39. #39
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post

    There is no way to say conclusively however that using the Cybershaft to discipline the G-02X and that the result (which is highly dependent on the G-02X output
    in this combo) would be equal to the G1X without actually setting it up and trying it with extensive A/B.
    Another unknown. Whether the G-02X/OP21 combo, but with upgraded Omega level clock cables, would yield a better outcome than G1X with lesser Sigma level cables. G-02X/OP21 with 3 x Omega's would still probably be cheaper than G1X with Sigma's.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  40. #40
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Another unknown. Whether the G-02X/OP21 combo, but with upgraded Omega level clock cables, would yield a better outcome than G1X with lesser Sigma level cables. G-02X/OP21 with 3 x Omega's would still probably be cheaper than G1X with Sigma's.
    Having owned Esoteric Mexcel 8N-A2000 cables followed by Sigma v1, then Sigma v2 each for substantial period of time (over a year or more each) and then
    moving to Omega CLOCK-50s, there was good jump even beyond what I thought were already excellent clock cables when moving to Omega. Given how good
    things evolved to sound with move to Sigma v2, I was NOT eager to spend any more or hankering for an upgrade (I tend to hold gear and cables for years and
    get the most out of it I can). I was offered a chance to test Omega and give them a full run (break-in through full capability). By the end of the break-in period
    I knew I was about to have to upgrade.

    Whichever option you choose in gear, clock,...I would say that Omega is a constant, not a variable.
    Legacy Audio Valor+Wavelet v2, Esoteric S-02 Amps HDPlex 300W, RevAudio Labs DC Umbilical, Esoteric Grandioso P1, P1PSU & dual D1 DACs, Cybershaft Prem Ltd OP21A 10 MHz Clock, Esoteric C-02X, Shunyata Everest 8000 & Altaira SG-NR hubs, Sigma SGC/CGC ground cables, VTX-Ag ground tails, AfterBurner8 duplexes, CSP Inc Q4B, S2B IEC plates, Shunyata Omega CLOCK-50 cables, Tubulus Concentus HDMI, Elrod Master Series Diamond SE & Masters Series Gold Power cords and Statement Gold XLRs, Diamond XLRs & Master Series Diamond XLRs, Shunyata OMEGA QR-s power cable, Anaconda Z-tron XLR, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Adona Zero GX3, GX2, GX racks, Composite Audio CF-2010, Townshend Audio Podiums, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints Ultra SS w/Ultra Bases, pArtScience 64-well, 2D QRD 3-inch SpaceArray Diffusors

    Travel/Rip: Apple MacBook Pro 16” 2023 M2 Max, 12-core CPU, 38-core GPU, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD for Audirvana+ v3, iTunes, REW Audio Analyzer, dbPowerAmp, DVD Audio Extractor

  41. #41
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Another clock to consider is Mutec Ref-10 Limited 120.

    No external PSUs needed, very similar performance (1dBc/Hz difference @ 1Hz) and comes from a much bigger company, with a much greater dealer's network (CyberShaft has to be bought factory direct from Japan).

    It is a bit more expensive (~ $6000 or so in retail).
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  42. #42
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    Another clock to consider is Mutec Ref-10 Limited 120.

    No external PSUs needed, very similar performance (1dBc/Hz difference @ 1Hz) and comes from a much bigger company, with a much greater dealer's network (CyberShaft has to be bought factory direct from Japan).

    It is a bit more expensive (~ $6000 or so in retail).
    Adam, what I see here in the US for comparable top line models is $6,580 + shipping for Cybershaft OP21A-D (includes external PS); $7,500 for Mutec REF10 SE120. So per your post, pricing here is essentially comparable.

  43. #43
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Even more so, if you negotiate a small discount from the dealer you work with.

    I have several friends running those clocks, simply 'cos there is a distributor in Poland, so you can borrow it and check in your system prior buying.
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  44. #44
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Hi and Happy New Year!

    Is there any opinion about the Soulnote X3? In Europe it has a similar price to the Esoteric G05 and is cheaper than the Cybershaft 21's.

    From what I can guess reading between the lines, is that has the advantage of being the only Soulnote clock, therefore manufactured without concessions and within its flagship line, which does not happen with G05.

    Another advantage that I see in my case is that it only has one output. I have no intention of incorporating a streamer in the medium term and would be connected to a K03Xd. Is there a sonic improvement just by having one output?

    I see against it in relation to G05 that I won't be marrying Esoteric with Esoteric.

  45. #45
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Esoteric with Esoteric is a compelling reason. Plus, should you wish to sell G-05 in the future it would have wider appeal to prospective buyers having multiple clock outputs.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  46. #46
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    I am not currently in the position of considering a sale, I need to buy first
    Although I'm a big fan of Esoteric, the X3 really looks appetizing to me.

  47. #47
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Just buy the G1X...
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  48. #48
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    Looking on how the Soul Note is designed

    soul-note-d3-x3-08-1024x683.jpg

    it seems to be rather simple clock, with some tiny and unknown OCXO module used.

    Personally. I would definately go with known references like Mutec Ref 120 Limited or a Cybershaft over this one.
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer

  49. #49
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    "Just buy the G1X..."

    You know that this makes absolutely no sense
    Last edited by Notdead; January 5, 2024 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Not been quoted

  50. #50
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    Re: Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.

    I appreciate the advice.
    Unfortunately interior photos don't say anything to me. I had a quick look to other interior clocks and all look pretty much the same to me.

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