Thread: Could you survive with streaming music only?

Originally Posted by TheOctopus

Pictures worth thousands of words...

Originally Posted by nicoff

Pictures worth thousands of words...

We all have our individual preferences but the masses have spoken and the trends are clear. I suppose if streaming platforms like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify fail, youtube music will go marching on.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

These charts do tell a story for sure, but it does bring many questions up, such as which services, which digital format. I would believe that the charts would look considerably different if different demographics were considered. I would believe the audiophile charts would be completely different. I also believe that an absolute major impact on these charts would be, and I admit that I am generalizing here, but I believe it would be the kids, or younger folks streaming Spotify, Apple music, etc., to their phones.

I believe these charts are impacted in a major way by how the younger generation gets their music now. They mainly stream using their phones, portable devices, Siri or Alexia. When we were in that age group we put together some type of sound system. Even non-audiophiles would have a small system of some sort to listen to their music. Times and markets have changed but I also believe that people who care about their music (us audiophiles) will enjoy higher sources of quality, weather it be physical (vinyl, CDs, SACDs) or downloads. If their preference is toward streaming then it will be better sources.

Basically I am saying that the charts are distorted towards the younger MP3 crowd. Most that I have encountered don't even realize that MP3's are crap poor in comparison.

Audiophiles do not drive the market. The masses do. Audiophiles are a tiny segment. The younger generations are showing interest in music but consuming it in headphones and there is whole culture built around it. That's good, there is hope and some of them have even embraced vinyl. Perhaps not for the same reasons audiophiles love vinyl but because it is "trendy" and "cool". It may last, it may not but it certainly helped the vinyl sales over the years. Vinyl actually beat paid digital downloads last year. Imagine that.

I have many old(er) friends who have never heard of Tidal or Qobuz. They don’t even know what MP3 is. Yet, they are happily streaming their (lossy) music and have proudly created their own playlists. And they do all of this via... iTunes. All that they care about is convenience and ease of use.
That’s exactly where the money is regardless of age.

Now, the combination of video and sound that YouTube affords is remarkable regardless of video or sound quality. Likewise, a live or recorded performance of the BP recorded in high definition video and lossy audio is more engaging than any 512DSD recording I can find.

Music is performed by artists. As such, a performance is better appreciated when one combines the image and the sound. The person watching/listening does not have to strain his/her senses trying to figure out where the instruments are located because they can actually see them and the brain does the rest.

Originally Posted by nicoff

I have many old(er) friends who have never heard of Tidal or Qobuz. They don’t even know what MP3 is. Yet, they are happily streaming their (lossy) music and have proudly created their own playlists. And they do all of this via... iTunes. All that they care about is convenience and ease of use.
That’s exactly where the money is regardless of age.

Now, the combination of video and sound that YouTube affords is remarkable regardless of video or sound quality. Likewise, a live or recorded performance of the BP recorded in high definition video and lossy audio is more engaging than any 512DSD recording I can find.

Music is performed by artists. As such, a performance is better appreciated when one combines the image and the sound. The person watching/listening does not have to strain his/her senses trying to figure out where the instruments are located because they can actually see them and the brain does the rest.

And the millions and sometimes billions views of their favorite pop and rap artists doing all the things that teenagers and young adults are into on youtube, is exactly the type of entertainment that has the best chance. Youtube is not going anywhere. It has made people into millionaires entertaining the masses.

Long before I became an audiophile, I was spinning vinyl records from my small collection and my all in one stereo system. Then it was MTV for many years. Video killed the Radio Star...

Interesting conversation. I had an eye-opening experience this past weekend on a quick round trip drive from Detroit to Charlotte, NC.

The friend that I drove down with was playing music and podcasts through Youtube and I was using Qobuz - both from same generation iPhones swapping the same lightning to USB cable to the dashboard. When it was my turn and I played something from Qobuz, it wasn't even close. The Qobuz sounded vastly superior, but my friend didn't seem to notice or care. Although he has a very good job and is financially stable, he clearly doesn't care enough about better SQ to even consider paying for it.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with the fact that previous generations, including mine, were bit by the audio bug at a time when they had to actually make an effort. You assembled a home system and cassette deck for the car, bought the record at the store when it came out, recorded your favorite records onto cassette tapes that you could enjoy in the car, and so forth.

Little did we know that the sound quality we were getting from our analog discs and tapes was so much better than what the masses would be getting several decades later.

Maybe the vinyl resurgence that still seems to be going strong is our best hope for getting young music lovers to stay on the right path.

All I know is that the next road trip that I go on will not leave the station without some ground rules being agreed to. My ears are still ringing!

Majority of people do not care because there is nothing to care about... The evolution of music WAS, IS and WILL be a non eventful technological evolution for them. From playing records on a mass produced record player, to listening to 8 track and radio in cars, to cassette tapes and Sony Walkman, to CD that for decades were loudness mastered, to iPod and earbuds to iPhone and now bluetooth earbuds and headphones by Dr.Dre Beats that he sold to Apple for $3.2 billion... Now it is youtube for music videos and or/music or a streaming platform if someone cares enough to pay for it.

One could not tell much of anything different going on the car stereo or a radio or a budget mid-fi stereo if a household even had one. Most people just do not consume music like audiophiles. All the lower resolution, dynamic range compressed, loudness mastered music was acceptable for all the ways one could listen to it yesterday and it is still acceptable today for anything but the "audiophile grade playback systems".

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Basically I am saying that the charts are distorted towards the younger MP3 crowd. Most that I have encountered don't even realize that MP3's are crap poor in comparison.

In my country the majority of this younger MP3 crowd, has something else to spend their money on. It is not because they don't care, but what we simpel forget is how expensive this hobby is. Nowadays the cost of living is still rising. For those youngsters premium quality Qobuz falls outside their budget, and to make it work well high quality components are needed, investments that are very nice for sound quality, but for those youngsters it is better to put all those thousands of euros in a mortgage.

When are we going to care about high quality audio and really buy? When they are settled, have a better job, have already a great house, and their income is high enough they can afford it. But before this moment they will stick with something like a simply Denon streaming amp, some budget speakers far below 1000 euro, and a spotify streaming service

Originally Posted by Alkyogre

In my country the majority of this younger MP3 crowd, has something else to spend their money on. It is not because they don't care, but what we simpel forget is how expensive this hobby is. Nowadays the cost of living is still rising. For those youngsters premium quality Qobuz falls outside their budget, and to make it work well high quality components are needed, investments that are very nice for sound quality, but for those youngsters it is better to put all those thousands of euros in a mortgage.

When are we going to care about high quality audio and really buy? When they are settled, have a better job, have already a great house, and their income is high enough they can afford it. But before this moment they will stick with something like a simply Denon streaming amp, some budget speakers far below 1000 euro, and a spotify streaming service

In America, there will be an enormous transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials. The millennials will become the richest generation ever (see article below). And they are not having as many children as the boomers which means less money spent on college. Of course that does not mean that they will spend their inheritance in expensive audio equipment. More than likely, that money will be spent on travel, homes, life experiences.


Millennials Will Become Richest Generation In American History As Baby Boomers Transfer Over Their Wealth

Originally Posted by nicoff

In America, there will be an enormous transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials. The millennials will become the richest generation ever (see article below). And they are not having as many children as the boomers which means less money spent on college. Of course that does not mean that they will spend their inheritance in expensive audio equipment. More than likely, that money will be spent on travel, homes, life experiences.


Millennials Will Become Richest Generation In American History As Baby Boomers Transfer Over Their Wealth

I am having trouble opening the article. I think I know what they are implying and yes, those that get a large inheritance will perhaps be wealthier than most ever were. However... that applies to what? 3% of the population at best? Because there is another not very pleasant statistic and that is 65% of the US population did not have even $1k in savings... That was before 2020 hit. So if we are talking a small handful here, then yes. I did not read the article so just guessing at the content.

"..listening to 8 track and radio in cars..."

Good one Octopus, I forgot the trusty old 8-track. I remember Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs and Aerosmith - Get Your Wings, then not much after that.

Mercifully, I must have moved on to cassettes very quickly!

My girls in their 20’s, while they’re quarantining with us, will not even let me install audio components in their bedroom. It’s Spotify on their iPhones and Apple EarPods, that’s it. My 6 pairs of speakers and just as many amps sit mostly unused. Sad.

Originally Posted by JCS123

"..listening to 8 track and radio in cars..."

Good one Octopus, I forgot the trusty old 8-track. I remember Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs and Aerosmith - Get Your Wings, then not much after that.

Mercifully, I must have moved on to cassettes very quickly!

There were also record players in cars...

Originally Posted by nicoff

In America, there will be an enormous transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials. The millennials will become the richest generation ever (see article below). And they are not having as many children as the boomers which means less money spent on college. Of course that does not mean that they will spend their inheritance in expensive audio equipment. More than likely, that money will be spent on travel, homes, life experiences.


Millennials Will Become Richest Generation In American History As Baby Boomers Transfer Over Their Wealth

Here in the Netherlands, the Millenials are definitely not the richest generation. They have it hard, due to the risen value of real estate and many of them have a high study debt, while the previous generation got some finance for free to study, nowadays it is a loan.

The result is: starters (the millenials) who buy a house, took a mortgage at the maximum they can afford and those houses are expensive,

To make a small comparison, my parents bought a house in 1991. Nowadays the same house is 3 times as expensive as that. Ok, the interest is low, but still, it need to be paid back in 30 years for a starter. That is the problem: if so much money is going away to your monthly costs, your house, payback of your study loans etcetera, not much is left anymore for luxury hobbies, like audio.

Originally Posted by TheOctopus

I am having trouble opening the article. I think I know what they are implying and yes, those that get a large inheritance will perhaps be wealthier than most ever were. However... that applies to what? 3% of the population at best? Because there is another not very pleasant statistic and that is 65% of the US population did not have even $1k in savings... That was before 2020 hit. So if we are talking a small handful here, then yes. I did not read the article so just guessing at the content.

Will to see if I can get a link to the article. But you are correct, while it is a lot of money, that money will be going a very small percentage of the population.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Unfortunately this is very true in the US. If you exclude the ultra wealthy... maybe 3%, maybe not even that much, then the remainder of the populations can not even afford a boom box let alone a nice system. And if you start considering the cost of living like in the most populous state, California. I do not even see how a young family can afford a home. the luxury of a nice sound system is beyond their even thinking about.

My wife and I are thinking about moving out of California when we retire. Not because we don't like it but because it is insanely expensive. We could sell the house, and buy a nicer house for the equity in most other states around the country. Simply crazy.

I know... I have relatives in San Francisco. My cousin is an orthopedic surgeon and even he complains how expensive it is. People living out of their cars while actually working is a clear example that something is very wrong with that model.

Originally Posted by Mikado463

ahhhh the 'leftcoast' , I've been going to SF since the mid-seventies, took the grandkids out two years back, absolute disgrace , they got to see people defecting on the sidewalks, couldn't wait to get the hell out of there.........

Not to turn this into politics but they get what they promote.

Originally Posted by MtnHam

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The sonic quality comes so close to equalling or bettering my vinyl, that I am disinclined to put up with the need for finding, cleaning, playing, putting away and general messing with vinyl. My access to a world of music that is noise and hassle free, and far exceeds the breath of my physical library. Roon provides liner notes, photos, lyrics, artists bios, and album essays which give me more info than often found on LP sleeves or liner notes. Links to other recordings as well. Then there is Roon Radio which kicks in at the end of every playlist, bringing me selections of music similar to what I was choosing, exposing me to music I might not have found otherwise. Many new additions to my library and playlists happen in this manner. When I read a review of a new release, or a reference to recordings in equipment reviews, I can immediately listen and add it to my library if desired. This far surpasses anything I experienced in the past. My world of music has expanded exponentially!

While "audiophile" level sonics are still very important to me, and I still spend time considering how I might take my system to the next level, I have come to realize that for me, the music is the most important element. I believe I have two world class systems, but it's the music that matters most, and I am finding a more enriching and rewarding experience with streaming....
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I totally agree with you. The combination of sound quality, convenience, ease of use, and (above all) millions of tracks available at the touch of a few buttons make it a no-brainer for me as well.