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  1. #101
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern California Coast & San Francisco
    Posts
    261

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    My quest for great sonics started around 1959 when I was 15. Over the years I have assembled many systems which, with one notable exception, led me to greater and greater audio enjoyment. There have been times when the audiophile aspect of the journey was paramount. Nonetheless, in large measure, for me, it's been about the music. My 5,000 LP library reflects this; it includes a wide range of genres from Glen Gould to Willie Nelson, with Jazz, Blues, Rock, World, Folk, Gospel, Opera, and more, even including some "Audiophile" pressings. My 1st turntable was a Thorens TD124 which I probably never should have sold. In the first years, I didn't even own speakers, but experienced a musical epiphany with Beethoven's 6th Symphony and a pair of AKG headphones. I still own that LP and every LP I purchased since!

    My system today is the best yet, and provides immense musical pleasure. My Roon/Lumin/Pass Lab/Sound Lab system often brings tears. The beauty of great music, well reproduced, nourishes my soul daily. I find myself listening more and more to classical music, but still revisiting favorites of every genre.

    The sonic quality comes so close to equalling or bettering my vinyl, that I am disinclined to put up with the need for finding, cleaning, playing, putting away and general messing with vinyl. My access to a world of music that is noise and hassle free, and far exceeds the breath of my physical library. Roon provides liner notes, photos, lyrics, artists bios, and album essays which give me more info than often found on LP sleeves or liner notes. Links to other recordings as well. Then there is Roon Radio which kicks in at the end of every playlist, bringing me selections of music similar to what I was choosing, exposing me to music I might not have found otherwise. Many new additions to my library and playlists happen in this manner. When I read a review of a new release, or a reference to recordings in equipment reviews, I can immediately listen and add it to my library if desired. This far surpasses anything I experienced in the past. My world of music has expanded exponentially!

    While "audiophile" level sonics are still very important to me, and I still spend time considering how I might take my system to the next level, I have come to realize that for me, the music is the most important element. I believe I have two world class systems, but it's the music that matters most, and I am finding a more enriching and rewarding experience with streaming. At age 76, I would rather spend my time listening than fussing with media. Offers on my LP library and vinyl components welcome.
    Tom
    Ultimate Audio
    SoundLab Dealer

    "Sometimes I live in the country,
    Sometimes I live in town,
    Sometimes I have a great notion,
    To jump in the river ....."
    from GoodNite Irene


    Country System:
    SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
    Pass Labs XP-20 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
    ARC REF2SE Phono
    SME 20/2 table SME V arm, Stillpoints LPI
    Minus-K BM-8 passive vibration control under tt
    Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge, Klaudio RCM
    Roon Nucleus+
    Lumin A1 Network Music Player
    Skywire balanced IC's, Teo liquid speaker cables
    3 dedicated AC lines
    Shunyata Triton v2, 3 Typhons, (one QR), and
    Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
    Stillpoints under everything.

    City System:
    Ayre KX-R Twenty Pre
    Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
    Esoteric K-03 SACD Player
    Roon Nucleus+
    Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
    Sound Lab Ultimate-545PX Speakers
    Shunyata Hydra 8, Typhon QR
    Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
    Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.

  2. #102

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?









    Serge

  3. #103

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post








    Pictures worth thousands of words...

  4. #104
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,546

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    These charts do tell a story for sure, but it does bring many questions up, such as which services, which digital format. I would believe that the charts would look considerably different if different demographics were considered. I would believe the audiophile charts would be completely different. I also believe that an absolute major impact on these charts would be, and I admit that I am generalizing here, but I believe it would be the kids, or younger folks streaming Spotify, Apple music, etc., to their phones.

    I believe these charts are impacted in a major way by how the younger generation gets their music now. They mainly stream using their phones, portable devices, Siri or Alexia. When we were in that age group we put together some type of sound system. Even non-audiophiles would have a small system of some sort to listen to their music. Times and markets have changed but I also believe that people who care about their music (us audiophiles) will enjoy higher sources of quality, weather it be physical (vinyl, CDs, SACDs) or downloads. If their preference is toward streaming then it will be better sources.

    Basically I am saying that the charts are distorted towards the younger MP3 crowd. Most that I have encountered don't even realize that MP3's are crap poor in comparison.
    Amps: Hattor "The Big" w/AMRG Trans, Hattor Tube Active Stage, Bel Canto REF500S, McIntosh MC754
    Vinyl: Rega RP8 w/Rega Neo PSU, Technics SL-1500C, Moon by SimAudio NEO 310LP, Record Doctor VI, Hexmat Yellow Bird
    Cartridges: Rega Ania Pro, Ortofon 2M Red, Audio Technica VM740ML
    Digital: Falcon Northwest PC Server, T+A DAC 8 DSD, W4S Recovery, Roon & HQPlayer, Microsoft Surface Pro 6, Astell & Kern SE200
    Transducers: Magnepan MG .7's w/Magna Riser Stands, Rythmik L12's (x2), Abyss Diana Phi's
    Other: McIntosh MR7083, Oppo BDP105, AudioQuest Niagara 1000, Astell & Kern AK240 (for sale)

  5. #105

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Pictures worth thousands of words...
    We all have our individual preferences but the masses have spoken and the trends are clear. I suppose if streaming platforms like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify fail, youtube music will go marching on.
    Serge

  6. #106

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    These charts do tell a story for sure, but it does bring many questions up, such as which services, which digital format. I would believe that the charts would look considerably different if different demographics were considered. I would believe the audiophile charts would be completely different. I also believe that an absolute major impact on these charts would be, and I admit that I am generalizing here, but I believe it would be the kids, or younger folks streaming Spotify, Apple music, etc., to their phones.

    I believe these charts are impacted in a major way by how the younger generation gets their music now. They mainly stream using their phones, portable devices, Siri or Alexia. When we were in that age group we put together some type of sound system. Even non-audiophiles would have a small system of some sort to listen to their music. Times and markets have changed but I also believe that people who care about their music (us audiophiles) will enjoy higher sources of quality, weather it be physical (vinyl, CDs, SACDs) or downloads. If their preference is toward streaming then it will be better sources.

    Basically I am saying that the charts are distorted towards the younger MP3 crowd. Most that I have encountered don't even realize that MP3's are crap poor in comparison.
    Audiophiles do not drive the market. The masses do. Audiophiles are a tiny segment. The younger generations are showing interest in music but consuming it in headphones and there is whole culture built around it. That's good, there is hope and some of them have even embraced vinyl. Perhaps not for the same reasons audiophiles love vinyl but because it is "trendy" and "cool". It may last, it may not but it certainly helped the vinyl sales over the years. Vinyl actually beat paid digital downloads last year. Imagine that.
    Serge

  7. #107

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I have many old(er) friends who have never heard of Tidal or Qobuz. They donít even know what MP3 is. Yet, they are happily streaming their (lossy) music and have proudly created their own playlists. And they do all of this via... iTunes. All that they care about is convenience and ease of use.
    Thatís exactly where the money is regardless of age.

    Now, the combination of video and sound that YouTube affords is remarkable regardless of video or sound quality. Likewise, a live or recorded performance of the BP recorded in high definition video and lossy audio is more engaging than any 512DSD recording I can find.

    Music is performed by artists. As such, a performance is better appreciated when one combines the image and the sound. The person watching/listening does not have to strain his/her senses trying to figure out where the instruments are located because they can actually see them and the brain does the rest.

  8. #108

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I have many old(er) friends who have never heard of Tidal or Qobuz. They donít even know what MP3 is. Yet, they are happily streaming their (lossy) music and have proudly created their own playlists. And they do all of this via... iTunes. All that they care about is convenience and ease of use.
    Thatís exactly where the money is regardless of age.

    Now, the combination of video and sound that YouTube affords is remarkable regardless of video or sound quality. Likewise, a live or recorded performance of the BP recorded in high definition video and lossy audio is more engaging than any 512DSD recording I can find.

    Music is performed by artists. As such, a performance is better appreciated when one combines the image and the sound. The person watching/listening does not have to strain his/her senses trying to figure out where the instruments are located because they can actually see them and the brain does the rest.
    And the millions and sometimes billions views of their favorite pop and rap artists doing all the things that teenagers and young adults are into on youtube, is exactly the type of entertainment that has the best chance. Youtube is not going anywhere. It has made people into millionaires entertaining the masses.

    Long before I became an audiophile, I was spinning vinyl records from my small collection and my all in one stereo system. Then it was MTV for many years. Video killed the Radio Star...
    Serge

  9. #109
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Detroit area
    Posts
    48

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Interesting conversation. I had an eye-opening experience this past weekend on a quick round trip drive from Detroit to Charlotte, NC.

    The friend that I drove down with was playing music and podcasts through Youtube and I was using Qobuz - both from same generation iPhones swapping the same lightning to USB cable to the dashboard. When it was my turn and I played something from Qobuz, it wasn't even close. The Qobuz sounded vastly superior, but my friend didn't seem to notice or care. Although he has a very good job and is financially stable, he clearly doesn't care enough about better SQ to even consider paying for it.

    Maybe a lot of it has to do with the fact that previous generations, including mine, were bit by the audio bug at a time when they had to actually make an effort. You assembled a home system and cassette deck for the car, bought the record at the store when it came out, recorded your favorite records onto cassette tapes that you could enjoy in the car, and so forth.

    Little did we know that the sound quality we were getting from our analog discs and tapes was so much better than what the masses would be getting several decades later.

    Maybe the vinyl resurgence that still seems to be going strong is our best hope for getting young music lovers to stay on the right path.

    All I know is that the next road trip that I go on will not leave the station without some ground rules being agreed to. My ears are still ringing!

  10. #110
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    17,789

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Great story.

    Some people say that those that grew up on or primarily listen to mp3 files from an iPod or similar device are perfectly content to listen that way.

    Most everyone I work with or friends who are not audiophile inclined have zero desire to hear higher resolution music. Iíll listen to almost everything but given a choice will absolutely go high res.

    Itís funny how we take our music listening very seriously but others donít care.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  11. #111
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,546

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Audiophiles do not drive the market. The masses do. Audiophiles are a tiny segment. The younger generations are showing interest in music but consuming it in headphones and there is whole culture built around it. That's good, there is hope and some of them have even embraced vinyl. Perhaps not for the same reasons audiophiles love vinyl but because it is "trendy" and "cool". It may last, it may not but it certainly helped the vinyl sales over the years. Vinyl actually beat paid digital downloads last year. Imagine that.
    Hehe, of course I understand that we don't drive the market but I was just pointing out that I believe the charts would be vastly different for the audiophile end. We are in a thread on an audiophile forum after all .

    It does amaze me how much the majority of people truly do not seem to care about SQ and are totally content with MP3's. I was talking to our office manager at work and she simply could not believe that I have $4000 headphones. She stated that her MP3's in her phone sound just fine <aarrrggg>. Even my wife, who very much hears the difference in better quality, simply does not care. ... sad, so sad, only sad (sorry, we watched Avatar the other night).
    Amps: Hattor "The Big" w/AMRG Trans, Hattor Tube Active Stage, Bel Canto REF500S, McIntosh MC754
    Vinyl: Rega RP8 w/Rega Neo PSU, Technics SL-1500C, Moon by SimAudio NEO 310LP, Record Doctor VI, Hexmat Yellow Bird
    Cartridges: Rega Ania Pro, Ortofon 2M Red, Audio Technica VM740ML
    Digital: Falcon Northwest PC Server, T+A DAC 8 DSD, W4S Recovery, Roon & HQPlayer, Microsoft Surface Pro 6, Astell & Kern SE200
    Transducers: Magnepan MG .7's w/Magna Riser Stands, Rythmik L12's (x2), Abyss Diana Phi's
    Other: McIntosh MR7083, Oppo BDP105, AudioQuest Niagara 1000, Astell & Kern AK240 (for sale)

  12. #112

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Majority of people do not care because there is nothing to care about... The evolution of music WAS, IS and WILL be a non eventful technological evolution for them. From playing records on a mass produced record player, to listening to 8 track and radio in cars, to cassette tapes and Sony Walkman, to CD that for decades were loudness mastered, to iPod and earbuds to iPhone and now bluetooth earbuds and headphones by Dr.Dre Beats that he sold to Apple for $3.2 billion... Now it is youtube for music videos and or/music or a streaming platform if someone cares enough to pay for it.

    One could not tell much of anything different going on the car stereo or a radio or a budget mid-fi stereo if a household even had one. Most people just do not consume music like audiophiles. All the lower resolution, dynamic range compressed, loudness mastered music was acceptable for all the ways one could listen to it yesterday and it is still acceptable today for anything but the "audiophile grade playback systems".
    Serge

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