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  1. #51
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Joe, not making fun but you wanting to hear the music the way you remember it reminds me of a good friend of mine. I understand what you are saying, my friend is a bit to the extreme.

    My friend had a LP collection of 1,000's, he used to make compilation cassettes for himself. He eventually sold the collection, I think divorce led to that. Now, he buys LP's records them to his computer, then burns a CD, then gets rid of the LP. He is into oldies and songs that charted.

    I tried to encourage him to utilize better technics and equipment, he says, "hell when I heard these songs I only had one speaker in my car" and "from being in the Navy my high range is shot". I used to make fun of him for buying cheap car speakers etc. he could afford better, he just didn't care. I tried to explain the virtues of a better cartridge, might as well be talking to one of my kids, LOL So now he just has thousands of these burnt CD's.

    Not saying you are anything like that, I just had to share since you triggered the memories.
    Yes, Iím not talking about anything like that. I had a turntable first (and before this my dad had a reel to reel and a turntable). I listened to the same music multiple times using this media. Then CDs (and after that SACDs) came out and I had a CD system listening to different music multiple times, etc. Those sound images are ingrained in my mind.

    Iím not speaking about listening in a car, or just one speaker - LOL - yes a little extreme. Even now the majority of the time my car radio is off, unless my wife is listening to it. Itís just not enjoyable to me - never was.

    If all there was is Qobuz, I wonít even bother owning a system. To me that would just a high end system playing a high end radio station. There would be no point, at least for me.

    I use Qobuz when Iím ill and canít get up to change CDs. And even then the majority of the time I use ripped CDs, which IMO sound better than just Qobuz. This is not to say that Qobuz isnít good - and in time I believe the other factos that effect it will improve - but for now physical media is better and what I enjoy.
    Sincerely,


    Joe

    ďNot everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." Ė William Bruce Cameron

    Amps: Pass X260.8s *** Pre-Amp: Pass XP22 *** Headphone Amp: Pass HPA-1 *** Speakers: Magico A3ís *** Magico A3 Grills *** Headphones: Focal Utopia *** Digital: Luxman D-08u SACD *** Aurender ACS10 CD Ripper & N100 Streamer *** Power: Shunyata Hydra Alpha A12 Power Conditioner *** AQ NRG Edison 20 *** Cables: Shunyata *** Rack: Bamboo SVT Quadrasphire *** Accessories: Herbie's Audio Lab Giant Titanium Cone Decoupling Gliders *** Russ Andrews Cable Elevators

  2. #52
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    There are tons of pictures, notes and biographic info as well as PDF files now with album booklets (when available) on Roon. The fidgeting with jackets and jewel cases in your hands part is still not available from any streaming service.
    Yeah, but you have to read it all on a PC, phone or tablet. I am on a computer all day for work and have a hard time reading from a PC, would rather read the same info in a book.
    -----------------
    Brian

    Main System -
    Rotel 1072 CDP / Rega P3 > Luxman 505UX Mark II > Dynaudio Audience 82s > Synergistic Cables

    Secondary - OPPO 93 > VAC CLA 1 MKII Pre > Odyssey Stratos > JM Labs Tantal 509s > Tara Labs Cables


  3. #53
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I do stream most of the time, BUT, I love the physical media and could not give it up.

  4. #54

    Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I find streaming the most practical medium, so I use it a lots. Roon makes all the difference to me, despite its deficiencies. Just last week I was not happy at the summerhouse, having to put up with the Aurender and its crappy UI.

    But I also enjoy my vinyls, collecting and playing them. CDs I only buy, when nothing else is available. But then I immediately rip them. Donít really see the point in downloads anymore, as I do get very good streaming quality.

    For me its like reading: I buy hardcover books of stuff Iím really interested in (vinyl), and sometimes there are only paperbacks (CDs) or digital versions (downloads). But most of the reading is online, staying up-to-date with things, learning new stuff, exploring new ideas, and novel lines of thought (streaming). To browse though new stuff, and look for specific things when following associations crossing my mind, I Google (Roon).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  5. #55
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Yes! In spite of owning 4,000 LPs and many CDs, I stream exclusively, subscribing to both Qobuz and Tidal. Roon makes it a rich and effortless experience, offering up almost all of the world's music, and making it extremely easy to find whatever I wish. SQ is excellent.
    Tom
    Ultimate Audio
    SoundLab Dealer

    "Sometimes I live in the country,
    Sometimes I live in town,
    Sometimes I have a great notion,
    To jump in the river ....."
    from GoodNite Irene


    Country System:
    SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
    Pass Labs XP-20 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
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    Skywire balanced IC's, Teo liquid speaker cables
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    Shunyata Triton v2, 3 Typhons, (one QR), and
    Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
    Stillpoints under everything.

    City System:
    Ayre KX-R Twenty Pre
    Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
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    Roon Nucleus+
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    Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
    Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.

  6. #56
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Yep, I believe that I could.
    For discovering new music.
    For portability: Qobuz and TIDAL are on my phone, meaning that I can use them with the car stereo, Bluetooth boom box, friends and familyís systems, etc. This includes those albums that I have loaded to the phone for off-line listening.
    Most importantly, for sound quality: I just popped in a CD yesterday for the first time in months, and I noticed that the SQ wasnít in any way superior to that of my Lumin T2 (all other system components being equal).

  7. #57
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    Mobile, AL
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Playing vinyl is still king to me.

    Of course my family thinks I am crazy, they all are more than happy with Spotify and YouTube. I am not however. But, I could get by with Qobuzonly, I think. I don't want to...
    Amp : DIY FirstWatt M2x mono amps
    Digital : Bricasti M12, Oppo 203
    Analog : Technics SL1200G, DIY K&K Audio Maxxed Phono Amp
    Speakers : Daedalus Audio Muse Studio
    Headphone : BHSE + Voce

  8. #58

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post

    ...
    Of course my family thinks I am crazy, they all are more than happy with Spotify and YouTube.

    ...
    The truth is that at $10, Spotify is a value proposition particularly when most people stream via their phones.
    And YouTube, even though it is even lower audio resolution, benefits greatly from the visual to the point that it can provide a more involving experience.

  9. #59

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    One more thought. The OP asked ďCan you survive with streaming onlyĒ.

    If the user is looking for a VALUE AND SONIC proposition, digital streaming is THE best way to go because it is cheaper than any other option ($10-$15 per month to access millions of albums) and for the same amount of money, it canít be matched sonically.

  10. #60

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Spent a few hours yesterday closely listening and comparing streaming Qobuz to Tidal to SACD. That was was over my main system and headphones.
    Neither my speakers (Harbeth 30.2) nor my reference headphones (ZMF Auteur Blackwood) are of the hyper-resolving variety but smooth, musical and very enjoyable.
    The DAC used for both is Luxman D-06u and I used tube (Prima Luna Dialogue HP) and solid state (Luxman L590AXII class A) for both main system and headphone comparisons.

    I did notice a difference between Qobuz and Tidal and it was that Qobuz sounded more analog to my ears. A bit more laid back in presentation, a bit quieter but definitely smoother and more musical. Not every genre (I listened to Jazz, Blues, simple acoustic arrangements and vocals as well) and not every album but Qobuz seemed more consistent and especially on the 192/24 bit recordings, it pulled ahead closer to my personal preference.

    My DAC is not of MQA unfolding variety so perhaps that is the difference but Tidal MQA sounded like it had a bit of glare, hardness and artificial edginess to the sound.

    It was much less noticeable on the main system vs headphones and that is to be expected. Headphones take out the speaker to room interaction and all that other stuff the gets between the pure sound and the ear.

    Next up was comparing the SACD playback to streaming same album. On Qobuz, I tried to find a significant and meaningful to my ears difference and there was NONE to be found that I would consider worthwhile or to prefer one over the other.

    So that settles it completely for me. I see no advantage with physical media (at least the CD/SACD variety since I don't do vinyl anymore).

    As always, my system, my ears, so "YMMV" and all that Jazz.
    Serge

  11. #61

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post

    So that settles it completely for me. I see no advantage with physical media (at least the CD/SACD variety since I don't do vinyl anymore).
    I came to the same conclusion as well.

    However, I still listen to LPs from time to time (not for convenience or expecting better sound but because I am in the mood) and I also play multichannel SACD discs from time to time just I have not bothered ripping the two or three multichannel discs that I own.

  12. #62

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I came to the same conclusion as well.

    However, I still listen to LPs from time to time (not for convenience or expecting better sound but because I am in the mood) and I also play multichannel SACD discs from time to time just I have not bothered ripping the two or three multichannel discs that I own.
    I get that. I would never suggest doing things differently than what brings one pleasure and enjoyment from the hobby. If it is vinyl and physical CD/SACD and even multi-channel stuff, so be it. For me it just stopped making sense buying and storing all the CDs and cleaning and taking care of LPs.
    Serge

  13. #63
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    No way. I have too many live concerts that streaming services don't have.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp: EMM Labs PRE
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
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    Digital: EMM NS1, EMM DA2
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    -Kyle

  14. #64

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    No way. I have too many live concerts that streaming services don't have.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like you have tapes of live concerts.
    You can digitize all of those tapes and then stream and never bother playing the tapes again (thatís what I did). Remember, you can stream from music services and from your own drives.

  15. #65
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Sounds like you have tapes of live concerts.
    You can digitize all of those tapes and then stream and never bother playing the tapes again (thatís what I did). Remember, you can stream from music services and from your own drives.
    I have hundreds of Phish & Grateful Dead shows ripped from CDs or downloaded as official releases. Things like Dave's and Dicks Picks from the dead aren't on Tidal. Also the vast majority of the either bands side projects are no where on streaming.

    Look for Jerry Garcia Band on Tidal. No shows at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp: EMM Labs PRE
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 28b3s, Bryston 4b3, Bryston 9bsst2
    Digital: EMM NS1, EMM DA2
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c, Kef Ci200RR-THX (surround/back)
    Subs: Two JL Audio F212v2
    Power: PS Audio PS10, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks
    Video: Oppo 203, LG 65inch OLED
    -Kyle

  16. #66

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    I have hundreds of Phish & Grateful Dead shows ripped from CDs or downloaded as official releases. Things like Dave's and Dicks Picks from the dead aren't on Tidal. Also the vast majority of the either bands side projects are no where on streaming.

    Look for Jerry Garcia Band on Tidal. No shows at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If your music has already been ripped or downloaded, then I think that the issue is more semantic.

    Streaming means music that you play from a music service (Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz, etc.) or from your Hardrives (ripped and/or downloaded). So you might already be streaming without you knowing it.

  17. #67
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    If your music has already been ripped or downloaded, then I think that the issue is more semantic.

    Streaming means music that you play from a music service (Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz, etc.) or from your Hardrives (ripped and/or downloaded). So you might already be streaming without you knowing it.
    Think the Op said no music on hard drives/NAS. Which led me to that conclusion


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Preamp: EMM Labs PRE
    HT Processor: Bryston SP3
    Amps: Bryston 28b3s, Bryston 4b3, Bryston 9bsst2
    Digital: EMM NS1, EMM DA2
    Speakers: Kef Reference 5, Kef Reference 4c, Kef Ci200RR-THX (surround/back)
    Subs: Two JL Audio F212v2
    Power: PS Audio PS10, Bryston BIT15
    Wires: Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR & SC, Ethernet - WW Platinum USB
    Other: Stillpoint Ultra SS, ISO-Acoustics ISO Pucks
    Video: Oppo 203, LG 65inch OLED
    -Kyle

  18. #68
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Playing ripped CD, or downloaded high-res, files from a hard drive is not streaming.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player
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    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for preamp, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
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    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  19. #69
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    This doesnít have to be a strict internet only playback scenario.

    I have a ton of cds that need ripping, but Iím just too lazy. Having multiple services is just too darn convenient.

    I will say itís nice to have a CD player for the time being especially for the rare occasions my internet goes out late at night.

    I still believe playing cds direct sound better than my ripped ones. I have not done extensive comparisons but the cd seems to flow better among other enhancements.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

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    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

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  20. #70
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    I will say itís nice to have a CD player for the time being especially for the rare occasions my internet goes out late at night.
    Ripped files are stored on a local hard drive. The Internet is unnecessary to play ripped files.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for preamp, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  21. #71

    Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Playing ripped CD, or downloaded high-res, files from a hard drive is not streaming.
    Perhaps by todayís standards some folks donít consider that as streaming. But 15 years ago (squeezebox time), playing ripped music was called streaming (at that time downloads, Tidal or Qobuz did not exist).

  22. #72

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Phishfan, Spotify has around 38 Dickís Picks albums. I have a great turntable and CD player but havenít played either of them in two years! Exclusively Tidal, Qobuz and Spotify (kids like Spotify).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishphan View Post
    I have hundreds of Phish & Grateful Dead shows ripped from CDs or downloaded as official releases. Things like Dave's and Dicks Picks from the dead aren't on Tidal. Also the vast majority of the either bands side projects are no where on streaming.

    Look for Jerry Garcia Band on Tidal. No shows at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #73

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Playing ripped CD, or downloaded high-res, files from a hard drive is not streaming.
    If you look at what audio gear are called streamers, itís devices which allow playback of music/ video from an indirectly or remotely (wirelessly or per wire) connected media source. Whether the media comes from a local or Internet server is not essential.

    Streaming is the technical process of playing back remotely produced or stored real-time media (typically video, audio, voice/ video call).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  24. #74
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    If you look at what audio gear are called streamers, itís devices which allow playback of music/ video from an indirectly or remotely (wirelessly or per wire) connected media source. Whether the media comes from a local or Internet server is not essential.

    Streaming is the technical process of playing back remotely produced or stored real-time media (typically video, audio, voice/ video call).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


    If we go back to Joe's question and it states ""No physical media or NAS at all? "
    Chris

    (2 Chl): Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE Lumin D1, VPI Classic 1, Manley Chinook, Dynavector DV20x2L.exaSound e32 mk11, Marantz SA11S2. ( computer) Win7, Synology DS413 NAS ,Vincent SP-331MKII , Quicksilver LS,Vapor Audio Breeze, Rythmik F12se. Cables: Acoustic Zen, DL Labs, Blue Jean.. ,Bryston BCD-1,, OPPO 105, Timbernation Rack, Metrum Onyx, Bifrost 2, Orchid DAC, Bryston BHA-1, HD650, HD600, HD800's, LCD-3,FOCAL Clear, JH Pro16 V1 IEM.

  25. #75

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    If we go back to Joe's question and it states ""No physical media or NAS at all? "
    NAS = Network Attached Storage

    The OP specifically excluded NAS but no other types of storage. Many streamers come with their own storage (like a hard drive or SSD); those types of storage are not the same as a NAS.

  26. #76
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    NAS = Network Attached Storage

    The OP specifically excluded NAS but no other types of storage. Many streamers come with their own storage (like a hard drive or SSD); those types of storage are not the same as a NAS.
    I Know what a NAS is, I own one, and not sure the meaning of your post. Joe didn't go to the nitty-gritty. It was general, but others want to take it to the nitty-grity. Sure some streamers have their own storage, so as far as I'm concerned with Joe's intent, that means NO storage at all of any kind in any device including a streamer. .
    Chris

    (2 Chl): Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE Lumin D1, VPI Classic 1, Manley Chinook, Dynavector DV20x2L.exaSound e32 mk11, Marantz SA11S2. ( computer) Win7, Synology DS413 NAS ,Vincent SP-331MKII , Quicksilver LS,Vapor Audio Breeze, Rythmik F12se. Cables: Acoustic Zen, DL Labs, Blue Jean.. ,Bryston BCD-1,, OPPO 105, Timbernation Rack, Metrum Onyx, Bifrost 2, Orchid DAC, Bryston BHA-1, HD650, HD600, HD800's, LCD-3,FOCAL Clear, JH Pro16 V1 IEM.

  27. #77
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Yes, Chris, that was my intent. I know some have attained an extremely high level of digital playback but the total system is involved.

    Computer or server, no or minimal storage, hooked up directly to a nice dac or cd player with digital inputs - done. No messing around, no super fancy stuff.

    I could. I donít mean to start a war.

    I have the nas, etc. but realize itíll probably take a lot more to reach the ultimate network music performance most here have.

    I was thinking out loud about what level could be ďenoughĒ.

    Thereís so much choice between Qobuz, Tidal, RadioParadise, Deezer, RadioTunes and the other remaining couple of services that thereís not enough time to listen to everything.

    At this point, I can get the same emotional response from those services as I can from stored music.

    I realize vinyl is really on another level but I donít have the patience or discipline to master it.
    Last edited by joeinid; November 20, 2020 at 12:15 PM.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  28. #78
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Yes, Chris, that was my intent. I know some have attained an extremely high level of digital playback but the total system is involved.

    Computer or server, no or minimal storage, hooked up directly to a nice dac or cd player with digital inputs - done. No messing around, no super fancy stuff.

    I could. I donít mean to start a war.

    I have the nas, etc. but realize itíll probably take a lot more to reach the ultimate network music performance most here have.

    I was thinking out loud about what level could be ďenoughĒ.

    Thereís so much choice between Qobuz, Tidal, RadioParadise, Deezer, RadioTunes and the other remaining couple of services that thereís not enough time to listen to everything.

    At this point, I can get the same emotional response from those services as I can from stored music.

    I realize vinyl is really on another level but I donít have the patience or discipline to master it.

    Spot on Joe.

    The wife, seems to enjoy the simple task of streaming, she accesses the Lumin with the ipad gets her album playing via Tidal or Qobuz, and life is good. .
    Chris

    (2 Chl): Pass xa30.5, W4S STP-SE Lumin D1, VPI Classic 1, Manley Chinook, Dynavector DV20x2L.exaSound e32 mk11, Marantz SA11S2. ( computer) Win7, Synology DS413 NAS ,Vincent SP-331MKII , Quicksilver LS,Vapor Audio Breeze, Rythmik F12se. Cables: Acoustic Zen, DL Labs, Blue Jean.. ,Bryston BCD-1,, OPPO 105, Timbernation Rack, Metrum Onyx, Bifrost 2, Orchid DAC, Bryston BHA-1, HD650, HD600, HD800's, LCD-3,FOCAL Clear, JH Pro16 V1 IEM.

  29. #79

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Survive? My involvement and satisfaction with music is flourishing. As one of many projects on Roon, I have organized top 50 jazz saxophone players and have access to all their albums instantly. A "collection" like that would cost more than small fortune. Best part... No cleaning required.
    Serge

  30. #80
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    Spot on Joe.

    The wife, seems to enjoy the simple task of streaming, she accesses the Lumin with the ipad gets her album playing via Tidal or Qobuz, and life is good. .
    I might need to replace my Lumin U1 or mini. Had both and both are awesome. When I finally end up with my own esoteric, itíll be a great addition.

    Life is absolutely good.
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  31. #81
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I am so pleased with my Roon/Lumin/Tidal/Qobuz set-up, and the multiple huge Playlists thus created, that I am considering selling my 5,000 LP library and CD collection.
    Tom
    Ultimate Audio
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  32. #82

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Absolutely I could. The nostalgic won't agree, they need to hold onto the memories of their youth. I get that, I'm old enough to be able to relate but I'm also objective enough to realize the efforts to play a few songs at a time, budget limits and storage limits with vinyl. On top of that, digital sonics has come incredibly far as to surpass analog (maybe not tape) $ for sonics until you spend significant $ (IME $15K and above). If you optimize your network chain streaming comes incredibly close to locally stored music and as others have said, there are millions of songs available at your fingertips. A great time to be an audiophile!
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  33. #83
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Joe,

    As you know, I've been using the MUTEC MC-3+ reclocker these past few weeks.
    Streaming is the one area where I have noticed the biggest improvements.

    Even on Spotify, normally thinned out digital is getting fleshed out with meaty sound that is very enjoyable.

    Regards



    .
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  34. #84
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    No I could not. Not in my Hifi world. Which is very important to me. And i'm not talking CD's here.

    To me selecting, putting on and listening to a record is so much more. No stream or CD can do that. It's difficult to describe why.

    It's like a great meal vs fast food. Like a glas vs. a plastic cup. It's more intense and more relaxing. It's an event, it's always deep and never "in the background".

    Would I survive in a 100% digital audio world without vinyl? Yes, as a human being, not as a person.
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  35. #85
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Only issue is on those rare occasions you might have internet disruption.
    Not all that rare for me. It would be very frustrating when this occurs.

    Ken
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  36. #86

    Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Yes, Chris, that was my intent. I know some have attained an extremely high level of digital playback but the total system is involved.

    Computer or server, no or minimal storage, hooked up directly to a nice dac or cd player with digital inputs - done. No messing around, no super fancy stuff.

    I could. I donít mean to start a war.

    I have the nas, etc. but realize itíll probably take a lot more to reach the ultimate network music performance most here have.

    I was thinking out loud about what level could be ďenoughĒ.

    Thereís so much choice between Qobuz, Tidal, RadioParadise, Deezer, RadioTunes and the other remaining couple of services that thereís not enough time to listen to everything.

    At this point, I can get the same emotional response from those services as I can from stored music.

    I realize vinyl is really on another level but I donít have the patience or discipline to master it.
    The question whether someone can live w/o owning any music, just relying on a subscription service, might have been closer to your intent, I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  37. #87
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    The question whether someone can live w/o owning any music, just relying on a subscription service, might have been closer to your intent, I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Stated that way does make more sense, Iíll agree.
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  38. #88

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    The question whether someone can live w/o owning any music, just relying on a subscription service, might have been closer to your intent, I guess.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Easy swap for me today, although I realize that when I first heard of Spotify years ago I was not sure if it would succeed. Thatís because at the time I felt that most folks (including me at the time) wanted to own their music not to mention SQ. Judging by the marketplace (and the majority of responders to this thread) folks are making the swap.

    Now, what if the question becomes: Would you stop buying books if the entire Library of Congress was digitally available to you to read at your pleasure at anytime you please? To me that would be much more difficult.

  39. #89

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Easy swap for me today, although I realize that when I first heard of Spotify years ago I was not sure if it would succeed. Thatís because at the time I felt that most folks (including me at the time) wanted to own their music not to mention SQ. Judging by the marketplace (and the majority of responders to this thread) folks are making the swap.

    Now, what if the question becomes: Would you stop buying books if the entire Library of Congress was digitally available to you to read at your pleasure at anytime you please? To me that would be much more difficult.
    To me also your question is a valid one.

    As for music, easy swap for digital files vs. streaming. Yet I like to own my vinyls.

    As for books, a lots of material is available digitally. But Iíve yet to enjoy a Tom Clancy or Dan Brown digitally. Needs to be a book, hardcover too. Different for work related materials though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ďLifeís too short to listen to bad audio.Ē

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  40. #90
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    To me also your question is a valid one.

    As for music, easy swap for digital files vs. streaming. Yet I like to own my vinyls.

    As for books, a lots of material is available digitally. But Iíve yet to enjoy a Tom Clancy or Dan Brown digitally. Needs to be a book, hardcover too. Different for work related materials though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Good point in regards to a book, and I agree hard cover


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  41. #91
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Definitely prefer reading a book over reading on a computer. I even print out the research stuff I come with at work since I do not like reading on the screen. Hard cover books all the way for
    me!

    If the discriminating factor is referring to a subscription service or not then 100% yes, I can survive with on online as a human (because I still have some music available), but I would not enjoy it nearly as much as a person. From collecting music that I own (vinyl, downloads, silver disks, etc.), and at least as important to me, I feel I am supporting the artist who create the music that I enjoy so much by buying their music more so than the insanely low amounts they get from streaming services. It is simply my preference and my way of thanking these incredibly talented people.
    Amps: Hattor "The Big" w/AMRG Trans, Hattor Tube Active Stage, Bel Canto REF500S, McIntosh MC754
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  42. #92

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    ...
    at least as important to me, I feel I am supporting the artist who create the music that I enjoy so much by buying their music more so than the insanely low amounts they get from streaming services. It is simply my preference and my way of thanking these incredibly talented people.
    If you are not buying the CD again or downloading it again, then you are not supporting the artists. In fact, you will continue to support the artist more if you stream their music.

  43. #93
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    In fact I actually do purchase music again for stuff I really like. I actually purchase both digital and vinyl versions of new music many times. If I can purchase straight from the artist that is my first choice. Liz Longley actually wrote out a nice post card and included with her new album when I bought it directly from her. Lyn Stanley, who I consider a personal friend, has told me on more than one occasion that what she makes from streaming is little to nothing versus purchasing her music directly from her. Every one of her albums I have purchased in multiple formats because of this. Maybe one reason she held an extremely low number pressing of her direct 2 disk album for me.

    Artist definitely make more from fans purchasing their music than they do from streaming services. It is simply a fact. I am not saying that anyone should not stream. By all means, enjoy music however you prefer. For me, if I find any artist I like I will usually buy several of their recordings. It is just my preference and what makes me feel I am doing my part.
    Amps: Hattor "The Big" w/AMRG Trans, Hattor Tube Active Stage, Bel Canto REF500S, McIntosh MC754
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  44. #94

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    In fact I actually do purchase music again for stuff I really like. I actually purchase both digital and vinyl versions of new music many times. If I can purchase straight from the artist that is my first choice. Liz Longley actually wrote out a nice post card and included with her new album when I bought it directly from her. Lyn Stanley, who I consider a personal friend, has told me on more than one occasion that what she makes from streaming is little to nothing versus purchasing her music directly from her. Every one of her albums I have purchased in multiple formats because of this. Maybe one reason she held an extremely low number pressing of her direct 2 disk album for me.

    Artist definitely make more from fans purchasing their music than they do from streaming services. It is simply a fact. I am not saying that anyone should not stream. By all means, enjoy music however you prefer. For me, if I find any artist I like I will usually buy several of their recordings. It is just my preference and what makes me feel I am doing my part.
    Not sure where I would send a check to the musicians of my favorite genre. I listen to a lot of hardbop Jazz from the mid 50s to mid 60s and most of those guys are long gone... may they RIP.
    Serge

  45. #95

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    In fact I actually do purchase music again for stuff I really like. I actually purchase both digital and vinyl versions of new music many times. If I can purchase straight from the artist that is my first choice. Liz Longley actually wrote out a nice post card and included with her new album when I bought it directly from her. Lyn Stanley, who I consider a personal friend, has told me on more than one occasion that what she makes from streaming is little to nothing versus purchasing her music directly from her. Every one of her albums I have purchased in multiple formats because of this. Maybe one reason she held an extremely low number pressing of her direct 2 disk album for me.

    Artist definitely make more from fans purchasing their music than they do from streaming services. It is simply a fact. I am not saying that anyone should not stream. By all means, enjoy music however you prefer. For me, if I find any artist I like I will usually buy several of their recordings. It is just my preference and what makes me feel I am doing my part.
    All of the artists that I bought their LPs and CDs from already got the money.

    They get extra money (from me) when I stream their music from a subscription service.

    If you really want to help the artists, you should 1) buy their music and 2) also stream it. That way they get two sources of revenues.

  46. #96
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    All of the artists that I bought their LPs and CDs from already got the money.

    They get extra money (from me) when I stream their music from a subscription service.

    If you really want to help the artists, you should 1) buy their music and 2) also stream it. That way they get two sources of revenues.
    I do not disagree, however the point I was making is that many/most people who's main source of music is streaming do not purchase music, from the artist or otherwise. Therefore streaming as an alternate to purchasing is what I refer to. Again, if streaming is someone's choice that is their business. My choice is to purchase. Most artist would very much prefer that their fans purchase if it were an either or.
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  47. #97
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I do not disagree, however the point I was making is that many/most people who's main source of music is streaming do not purchase music, from the artist or otherwise. Therefore streaming as an alternate to purchasing is what I refer to. Again, if streaming is someone's choice that is their business. My choice is to purchase. Most artist would very much prefer that their fans purchase if it were an either or.
    And streaming pays these artist and their music bus counterparts a pity amount. Royalties are basically the amount paid to any rights-holders when a song (or any creation) is sold, distributed, used in other media (like a commercial or movie), or monetized in any way. Each song is split into two separate copyrights: composition (lyrics, melody) and sound recording owned by the record label and recording artists.

    Composition copyrights: Owned by songwriters and publishers
    Sound recording copyrights: Owned by the record label and recording artists

    The royalties are split among all these people, at various rates negotiated amongst record labels and agencies. Tidal for instance pays for one stream (according to soundcharts for 2020) "pay per stream rate of $0.00989", so that figure if one song is streamed or 10000, or 1 million the dollars are pretty limited to all.

    I still buy CD's and LP's. but no longer buy downloads, I would rather have the media in hand, call me old fashion.
    Chris

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  48. #98
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I could and do live without it......at least for now.

    A lot of interesting views and clearly streaming is the preference for many. However, there has not been one mention of how the streaming model impacts the artists getting paid. It was mention up-thread:

    "Total time spent on acquiring all the albums above 4 min.
    Total extra expenditure $0."


    One pays $15/mo to have access to unlimited music, it's sort of like the original napster. I'm over simplifying but you get the gist.

    To me that is one of the biggest turnoff's to the streaming model. I would guess/hope as the streaming model continues to mature, hopefully artists get what they deserve. The amount of time, effort, sweat and money etc.. that goes into creating just one album (from the artist perspective) is mind blowing if you think about it and it almost seems like its free for immediate consumption. Part of that just doesn't sit well with me, but that's just my view. Again there is a lot of moving parts to this and I am only bringing this up as a perspective.

    Also I don't have any current metrics on the state of artist getting paid in the streaming model nor am I pointing fingers. I too have a spotify acct (family) but I use for discovery and then purchase.

    I continue to with buy CD's (from artists page, bandcamp) or the best dig download I can find. Qobuz has a 3 month trial going which I'll prob try.

    * lol, I hadn't seen the last few paragraphs as it relates to artist / pay when I posted.

  49. #99
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    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    I'm hedging my bets. So no, streaming isn't an exlusive thing for me.
    We don't live at the edge of the civilized world, but you can see it from here. Internet is dicey.
    I still play records a lot and some of them make the best music my system has ever made.
    And I have amassed a large digital library that lives on a NAS device.

    Here's the thing that gets me about streaming.
    It has never been profitable. For anyone. Ever.
    Tidal and Qobuz are still losing money and relying on investors to provide operating capital.
    Spotify is, so far, in the hole by $2.8 Bn since inception. They occasionally have a positive quarter wrt EBIT, never a positive year.

    What is going to happen?
    Tom

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    McIntosh MAC 4300v

  50. #100

    Re: Could you survive with streaming music only?

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I'm hedging my bets. So no, streaming isn't an exlusive thing for me.
    We don't live at the edge of the civilized world, but you can see it from here. Internet is dicey.
    I still play records a lot and some of them make the best music my system has ever made.
    And I have amassed a large digital library that lives on a NAS device.

    Here's the thing that gets me about streaming.
    It has never been profitable. For anyone. Ever.
    Tidal and Qobuz are still losing money and relying on investors to provide operating capital.
    Spotify is, so far, in the hole by $2.8 Bn since inception. They occasionally have a positive quarter wrt EBIT, never a positive year.

    What is going to happen?
    Youtube will take over...
    Serge

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