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Thread: Class-D amps
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June 26, 2013, 06:05 PM #1
Class-D amps
The other day I removed the REF250's from the mid/highs and tried just my ARC DS450M's on my speakers and it was a real different sound. Tight, punchy, with a sharp definition, but with a rather flat soundstage. I wasn't entirely sure I liked it....it was different from the beautiful slight bloomy midrange I'm used to and musicality of tubes.
I certainly like the gobs of power and small foot print of Class-D. It has lots of potential. It got me to thinking.....are there any good Class-D amps out there or even any Class-D hybrid amps anyone has heard and liked?
NuForce
BelCanto
Anthem
Rogue
ARC
....others?My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
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June 26, 2013, 06:36 PM #2
Re: Class-D amps
I am really enjoying my spectron musician 3, which I got for my Gallos but like even more through my Zu Omens. 600W into 8 ohms! Nice to have that headroom and pulls just 60w when idle, very efficient.
Ron
Amplification: Sugden Signature A21SE integrated amp, LUMIN M1
Digital Source: Sonictransporter i5 Roon core, Metrum Ambre streamer, Sonnet Morpheus DAC
Analog Source: Clearaudio Concept Wood with Satisfy tonearm, nagaoka mp-200 cart, Graham Slee Reflex Gold phono pre
Speakers: Revival Audio Atalante 3, DeVore 3XL
Cabling/power: Auditorium speaker, Audience RCA, Audioquest Niagara, Shunyata, Audience PCs
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June 26, 2013, 06:36 PM #3
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June 26, 2013, 07:46 PM #4
Re: Class-D amps
Mike, I had a Wyred amp that I ran direct to their DAC2 for awhile. While I could appreciate the coolness factor, as in cool to the touch, and the fact that it drew very little electricity, it just didn't have the musical features that I like. The beautiful midrange and sparkle you get from tubes just wasn't there. I don't think that Class-D is there yet to compete with A or AB.
Doug
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June 26, 2013, 08:52 PM #5
Re: Class-D amps
I've been saying this for a while, tube pre plus class D is a great mix. The control of class D plus the euphorics from a tube pre give you the best of both worlds, IMO of course.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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PC: Wyred 4 Sound mINT, KEF Q100, Hifiman HE-6
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June 26, 2013, 08:56 PM #6
Re: Class-D amps
Thanks. I'm wondering about brands. Has any one company got a lead on Class-D technology?
NuForce perhaps?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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June 26, 2013, 09:09 PM #7
Re: Class-D amps
I've heard the Merrill Audio Veritas Monos and both times they had a huge soundstage, seemed very fast, but a bit lean for my taste. Could have been more the speakers than the amp - hard to tell.
I think Nick (veindoc) tried the twins (stereo version) on his TADs. Maybe he will chime in.
Allen
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June 26, 2013, 09:13 PM #8
Re: Class-D amps
Are the TAD amps Class-D or am I thinking of something else?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 26, 2013, 09:15 PM #9
Re: Class-D amps
If Anthem ever irons out the bugs of the M1's, they could be a home run. Unlimited power! 2000 watts/channel into 4ohms.
And reasonably priced too!My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 26, 2013, 09:30 PM #10
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June 26, 2013, 10:11 PM #11
Re: Class-D amps
I'm very pleased with Arion amp. RS-250.
To me Arion amp does sound smoother than NCore.
RS-250 Spec.Trung
If you think you're too small to make a difference, You haven't spent a night with a mosquito.
We are WHALE Sharks
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June 27, 2013, 08:40 AM #12
Re: Class-D amps
It's such a different sound. Very hard to put your finger on it exactly. The DS450M's on just the bass is excellent. Not sure I like them anywhere else.
But it did get me thinking about advancements in Class-D and who is the present day leader.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 27, 2013, 09:53 AM #13
Re: Class-D amps
I've heard a few and I liked the Merrill's a lot, but with a tubed front end (something like a Dude would be great I think). They are not cheap though. All class D is not created equal and the progression toward better sound is changing rapidly. The last gen class D's can't stand up to the current, newer ones.
Vine, Vide, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.
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June 27, 2013, 10:01 AM #14
Re: Class-D amps
Thanks Bob. That's exactly what I'm thinking. Class-D is also ripe for combining with a preamp and DAC - all-in-one. It's certainly is interesting and perhaps the future.
I actually remember when SS was first coming into popularity and the first reactions were similar to Class-D now. It will get better, no doubt and hopefully one day sound better than SS. Will it ever sound better than tubes? I have my doubts....but hope one day it can. Believe me, slugging around 150 pound SS amps is no fun. These little Class-D amps are super powerful and light. Imagine a great sounding, super powerful amp, which runs cold the size of a step up transformer? Nice.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 27, 2013, 12:15 PM #15
Re: Class-D amps
I've been reading about the D-Sonic M3-1500M (1500 watts/channel into 8 ohms! - 2400 watts/channel into 4 ohms! - oh my!)
M2 Series Amplifiers, Power Amplifiers & Class D Amplifiers for Sale Online
$1500 each
Insane.
Reviewers said it was very warm sounding and almost too analog!
6moons audio reviews: D-Sonic M2-1500MMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 27, 2013, 01:11 PM #16
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Re: Class-D amps
Hi Mike,
I know you are a Classe fan so it might interest you that Classe had a proto type Class D amplifier at our recent Music Matters event. It was hooked up to the B&W Nautilus speakers and my friend was really impressed with the sound. When he asked which amplifier was being used, it turned out it was a proto type amplifier Classe was working on that was Class D. I"m not sure which Class D implementation they are using.
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June 27, 2013, 01:18 PM #17My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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June 27, 2013, 06:09 PM #18
Re: Class-D amps
hey Mike, I have tried some truly notable models: TADm2500, Rowland 525, and Merrill veritas with my Pass XP-20 and TAD cr-1. I know my speakers do have special needs to truly thrive but all three of these class D were fine, quiet, tight bass but sound stage and musicality just did not compare to any of the class A or AB amps. Just not even close for my particular setup.
ATB,
NickNick
Main system :TAD CR1 speakers, Viola Labs Symphony amp,Pass XP-20 preamp., MSB Discrete DAC with twin power supplies and V2 Renderer module, Gigafoil V4 inline ethernet filter with uptone LPS-1 power supply with Ghent audio Gotham 2.1mm to 2.5mm cable and AG diamond ethernet cable, Sonicorbitor Roon Audiophile 6 TB network server-player , MG Audio Design Planus III jumpers & speaker cables, Zitron Cobra power cords, Shunyata Hydra AV, and acoustic zen absolute copper IC,. Room treatment ASC tower traps, Vicoustic absorber premium cinema wall and ceiling panels, and MSR acoustic trifusser side wall panel
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June 29, 2013, 03:59 PM #19
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Re: Class-D amps
The Arion Harmony amps use a tube front end and class D out, they sound great, much like the Rogue Medusa, both neutral in a good sense.
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July 6, 2013, 07:26 PM #20
Re: Class-D amps
Mike,
Glad you started this thread. I still have the ARC DS450 driving the Salon 2s. As you may remember, I was considering getting the DS450Ms to replace the stereo version. I continue to lean towards the Pass. Just need to pull the trigger.
Mike
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July 6, 2013, 07:28 PM #21
Re: Class-D amps
Mike
Have you considered Classe amps? You might be surprised.Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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July 6, 2013, 07:31 PM #22
Re: Class-D amps
Mike - I have the DS450M's too. The Pass are great amps. Real sweet with a great midrange. However, I did hear Mark's CAM-600's and loved the combo. I have a pair of CAM-600's and Studio 2's coming my way next week !
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 6, 2013, 07:36 PM #23
Re: Class-D amps
Joe,
I have. Both Mike and Mark (MDP) recommended them to me a while back. The 600 monos have excellent reviews.
I have been considering the Pass X600.5s and the XA200.5s. They are very good companions to the ARC Ref5SE.
I suppose all 3 are good options. My challenge is being able to arrange an audition given where I live.
Mike
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July 6, 2013, 07:40 PM #24
Re: Class-D amps
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 6, 2013, 07:41 PM #25
Re: Class-D amps
I love Pass gear but the heat output was too much during any time of the year except the dead of winter where the heat was welcome.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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July 6, 2013, 07:43 PM #26
Re: Class-D amps
Some gear combos go together like peanut butter and jelly. Classe and Revel is one of them.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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July 6, 2013, 07:45 PM #27
Re: Class-D amps
Another idea....
Keep the DS450M's for the bass of the Salon 2's and add a pair of ARC REF250's for the mid/high. It works! I run that combo on my Aida's. The gain is matched - you just put the REF250's on the 8ohm tap. It's an amazing combo. Sweet and thunderous!My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 6, 2013, 09:34 PM #28
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July 6, 2013, 10:13 PM #29
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December 23, 2019, 07:00 AM #30
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- Feb 2017
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- 13
Re: Class-D amps
According to the latest review on Home HiFi dot com website, the D-Sonic must be the best Class D amp on the market.
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December 23, 2019, 10:38 AM #31
Re: Class-D amps
Main System - Lumin U2, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, VTV Purifi 1ET-7040SA with tube buffer, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel S/812 subs
Back-up 1 - Premium Audio mini Gan Amp, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Selah SA-2s, Sumiko S5 sub, Teac UD-503 DAC, Carver (modded) C-9
Back-up 2 - Onkyo TX-NR797, Panasonic DP-UB820, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, PowerSoundAudio S1500 sub
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December 23, 2019, 10:58 AM #32
Re: Class-D amps
Anyone seen/heard the Rogue Audio Dragon amplifier? One of my prejudices about many of class D is the SMPS power supplies. The Rogue Audio gear has both a linear power supply, and a tubed input circuit. The Dragon has nCore digital boards that has been reviewed well.
any other thoughts on the various digital boards? As I am just learning about this class, I’m sure I missed some.
IcePower, Hypex nCore, purifi, the very high power D-Sonic boardAmplification : Modwright LS300 - Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
Digital : MSB Premier DAC+Digital Director, Oppo 203, Sonos Port (W4S mod)
Analog : Technics SL1200G, Boulder 508
Speakers : Daedalus Audio Muse Studio
Headphone : BHSE + Voce
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December 23, 2019, 01:59 PM #33
Re: Class-D amps
Has anyone of you tried Mola Mola?
This is Bruno Putzeys high-end amplifier brand. They do get excellent reviews.
https://www.mola-mola.nl
Hans
Bowers & Wilkins 805 D3 /alternatively JM Lab Point Source Aria 5 (self modified)/ 2x SVS 3000 SB, Audionet AMP (2x), dCS Bartók used as streamer / DAC / preamp, Pro-Ject RPM 9 with Speedbox S and Orthofon MC Vivo Blue, KEF LS50 Nocturne / Sunfire Atmos(kitchen). Patio: Bluesound Node 2i and Focal CMS50.
RoonServer on Nucleus.
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December 23, 2019, 05:58 PM #34
Re: Class-D amps
Yes I have, on several occasions.
They are excellent.
But last month, I heard his new amp modules (see https://purifi-audio.com/ ).
Expect a paradigm shift!
I visited with Jacques, another Belgian audio buddy.
You can read about our findings here: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=47023Vivid Audio - Burmester - Hegel - Marantz - Oppo - Pioneer 60" - Wireworld
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July 5, 2020, 12:00 AM #35
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- Feb 2017
- Posts
- 13
Re: Class-D amps
"Now, I’m amazed at the quality and clean reproduction of the lower bass notes. From top to bottom it sounds as though I have upgraded my speaker system. I love trumpet music and I’ve always perceived that as FAST as Dizzy Gillespi is, he wasn’t completing the notes. He was blasting them out. Now I realize that my previous amplifiers from the last 12 years haven’t been fast enough to keep up with him. Now I am hearing how crisp and clean each note he plays is. Amazing. People often describe sound with depth and width. With this amp, I’m describing it as a “sound field” There is a comprehensiveness to what I’m hearing now that previously didn’t exist. I’ve never heard anything like this. In my system, this is even quieter than the PS Audio amps."
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July 5, 2020, 12:20 AM #36Bud
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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July 5, 2020, 12:47 AM #37
Re: Class-D amps
Bud,
check post number 2034, looks like a d-sonic amp.
D-Sonic custom Audio amps - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
M3a-2400-3 – D SonicLast edited by joeinid; July 5, 2020 at 12:50 AM.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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July 5, 2020, 09:59 AM #38
Re: Class-D amps
Hey Mike,
Doesn't MBL also offer some class D amps?
My buddy from the audio club who has the same MBL speakers as you do and their big boy mono blocks and the MBL pre-amp had EJ build him mono blocks to use on the bass. He is thrilled with what the class D has done for the low end while using his MBL's for the rest.
As a side note, EJ modified the amps only to install special speaker terminals because the the cables that our friend is using are so huge that they could not attach securely to standard terminals .
Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000R
I believe that Jim Smith has one of these and could probably give you some insight on it.
Wyred 4 Sound ST-750LEMcIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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July 5, 2020, 11:38 AM #39
Re: Class-D amps
Yes, but they are a hybrid of sorts.
“In a Class D amp the input is first converted/encoded by a modulator into a pulse train (using pulse width, pulse density, or related modulatory techniques) that represents the amplitude variations of the audio signal. This pulse train is then fed to the amplifying devices (usually MOSFETs), which operate like electronic on-off switches. Working alternately, these transistors switch back and forth between the supply rails, generating positive and negative boosted signals that are subsequently low-pass filtered (to get rid of the very high frequencies used by the modulator to encode the input signal), sometimes high-pass filtered (to reduce residual distortion), and fed as a higher-gain analog (sinusoidal) signal to the loudspeakers. Theoretically, a switching amplifier (which dissipates virtually no power as heat) has an efficiency of 100%, while Class B amps have a theoretical maximum efficiency of 78% and Class A amps 20–50%.
Unlike its predecessors and much of its current competition, the Noble Line N15 monoblocks under review are said to guarantee a linear signal independent of load, level, or frequency. This is a bold claim, considering (as MBL itself points out in its LASA 2.0 white paper) that Class D amplifiers inherently distort the music signal depending on frequency. (Natively they have low THD in the bass and very high THD in the treble.) Moreover, Class D amplifiers are always designed for a particular resistance value (e.g., 4 ohms), but a loudspeaker does not have a constant resistance—it is a “complex load” with impedances varying with frequency. Thus, in addition to their native non-homogeneous distortion profile, Class D amplifiers change their power delivery (and hence their frequency response) with changes in load. On top of this, the louder a typical Class D amp plays, the lower its overall distortion, and (paradoxically) the quieter it plays, the higher its distortion.
MBL claims to have solved these myriad problems with its LASA (Linear Analog Switching Amplifier) 2.0 technology, which, instead of the typical and economical switch-mode power supplies of most Class D amplifiers, uses a massive analog toroidal power supply. The LASA circuitry is also symmetrical in layout for better common mode rejection, employs low-drop fast-recovery rectifiers to create a low-noise supply voltage, and has a “soft-clipping” provision to eliminate aggressiveness and distortion at very high output levels. Whether or not these strategies result in an amp that (as MBL claims) is closer to Class A or Class AB in linearity, noise, and stability than it is to typical Class D, there is no question that the N15 differs sonically from the switching amplifiers I auditioned lo these many years ago.”
Source:
MBL Noble Line N11 Preamplifier and N15 Monoblock Amplifier | The Absolute Sound
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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July 5, 2020, 11:40 AM #40
Re: Class-D amps
I have no interest in "gobs of power" amps with my Avantgarde speakers, but I do use Class D amplification.
After testing about a dozen amps of all flavours (after deciding to move away from tubes) I concluded I didn't like Diavelet, Red Wine or Lyngdorf's Class D efforts and I found Sugden and Accupase Class A's a bit on the soft / warm side, but I did like NAD M32's Direct Digital sound. I'm hoping their new Puriti M33 may be even better.
Also rejected for one reaon or another - GamuT D200 Mk III, Micromega M100, Quad Platinum, Sanders Magtech and others. NAD shouldn't be ignored just because it's relatively low priced and includes a DAC - plus streamer and Dirac RC on the M33.Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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July 5, 2020, 11:52 AM #41
Re: Class-D amps
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 5, 2020, 06:55 PM #42
Re: Class-D amps
Tubes - no thanks. I'm sure those amps are all great with AGs (you're an expert), but decided I'd listen to MUCH more music with SS powering my speakers. Dead right - has worked out that way, so I won't be going back to the hassle, life expectancy worries, etc of lovely sounding SETs in a hurry.
I'm now CONSIDERING a switcher so I can switch from my NAD amp to perhaps an Art Audio PX-25 SET for occasional listening without having to change speaker cables.
Have you actually tried a NAD M32 with Avantgarde? I suspect not from your reaction. I've used Graaf GM20 OTL, Unison Research SMT 845, Audio Note (with 300B), Art Audio Carissa (845), Art Audio PX-25 and Consonance Cyber 845 monos, but I really don't want to go back as the NAD is so good - surprisingly so!
PeterSources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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July 5, 2020, 07:10 PM #43
Re: Class-D amps
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 5, 2020, 07:36 PM #44
Re: Class-D amps
and the Necro-thread award of the week goes to....
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July 5, 2020, 07:40 PM #45
Re: Class-D amps
I'll try to arrange a demo of the SIT-3 amp, though not sure there are any UK dealers. Looking at the Owner's Manual, it seems to have no way of turning it off short of using the back panel switch. I wouldn't want an inefficient Class A amp that doesen't either turn itself off after a period with no input (an EU requirement) or can be turned off via trigger from preamp.
Has it either of these fetures to make it envirnmentally acceptable? In fact, I'd be very reluctant to consider an amp that burns so much energy that the case gets to 50 deg C when switched on. That's one of my reasons for moving away from tubes! Thanks. PeterSources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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July 5, 2020, 07:49 PM #46
Re: Class-D amps
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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July 5, 2020, 07:55 PM #47
Re: Class-D amps
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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