Bit confused about Roon

ArnoP said:
After many trials and listening my choice is Qobuz->Nucleus->USB->DAC(CA851N)->preamp->amp etc

Control via macbook or ipad...

Excellent SQ
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Very similar, Local Stored Files->PC Server->Roon & HQ Player->DAC(T+A DAC 8 DSD)->Pre-amp->amp

Control via Microsoft Surface Pro 6

Amazing SQ!!!
 
Doing trials too on my system and a dac directly into a pc is not the way to go. I explained the reasons above, there must be a separate streamer between my core and dac,

Currently testing roon setups. I build a nuc 8i5 based on a linux version. In an Akasa fanless case I am currently running Roon in DSD and measuring temperatures. At 256 DSD my max Tjunction temperature is just 52 degrees centrigrade. While the critical temperature is above 80 degrees centrigrade. And it sounds amazing.

I hope to do further tests with HQPlayer, this is promising.
 
Alkyogre said:
Doing trials too on my system and a dac directly into a pc is not the way to go. I explained the reasons above, there must be a separate streamer between my core and dac,

Currently testing roon setups. I build a nuc 8i5 based on a linux version. In an Akasa fanless case I am currently running Roon in DSD and measuring temperatures. At 256 DSD my max Tjunction temperature is just 52 degrees centrigrade. While the critical temperature is above 80 degrees centrigrade. And it sounds amazing.

I hope to do further tests with HQPlayer, this is promising.
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Using a separate streamer and end point may work for you but it doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

The Taiko Audio Extreme works best as a single unit setup as opposed to using an endpoint. My prior DIY server worked better as single PC without an endpoint.

Every device you add to the chain opens the potential for adding noise.
 
Alkyogre said:
Doing trials too on my system and a dac directly into a pc is not the way to go. I explained the reasons above, there must be a separate streamer between my core and dac,
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Frankly I had excellent SQ with my macbook being the core linked via USB to the DAC but the annoying thing was the USB cable running across the living room...so had to get the nucleus close to the DAC to separate the control function from the actual core function
 
Rule 1 is applicable to generic PC (not audiophile modified) or Mac as a Roon Core, not referring to EUR24K servers I believe.
 
Hi, Thanks for that. Things are slowly become more clear. I would only want to use the Esoteric in native mode if that improves the sound qualtiy. From what I have learned so far, it would seem that the Roon interface will be much superior to the Esoteric app.

From what you say, I take it that it would not be possible to install MinimServer on the same NUC that has the Roon software on it? Does MininServer fulfill a similar function to the Roon software?

At present, I am swithering a bit about whether to have an internal SSD in the NUC, or an external one. The latter possibility would enable me to plug the SSD straight into the Esoteric. What do you think are the advantages of either possibility?

Thanks for all your advice and your patience. It's a bit of a learning curve.
 
For those concerned about noise from PC’s or endpoints to DAC’s via USB;
I have done experiments measuring USB nose from my laptop and RPi based endpoints. A USB isolator can produce a dramatic improvement in noise the DAC sees, and a resultant increase in sound quality.

I have done this with both my systems and the results are not subtle. I chose the DIY route and can provide details to those who desire to roll their own. iFi and other make USB isolators that I am certain will be effective, I just haven’t tried them.

Conventional wisdom and experience have shown that PC’s generate a lot of noise. That’s true. What’s unknown is how much noise streamers generate as manufacturers don’t provide this kind of data. The assumption is these audiophile streamers are better, and they may be, but there is no data on any of them, at least that I’m aware of. Different DAC’s will also respond to noise differently. A USB isolator powered by a linear power supply or very quiet switcher will isolate your DAC and is an inexpensive way to improve SQ in any USB streamer -> DAC setup.
 
paleo12 said:
Hi, Thanks for that. Things are slowly become more clear. I would only want to use the Esoteric in native mode if that improves the sound qualtiy. From what I have learned so far, it would seem that the Roon interface will be much superior to the Esoteric app.

From what you say, I take it that it would not be possible to install MinimServer on the same NUC that has the Roon software on it? Does MininServer fulfill a similar function to the Roon software?

At present, I am swithering a bit about whether to have an internal SSD in the NUC, or an external one. The latter possibility would enable me to plug the SSD straight into the Esoteric. What do you think are the advantages of either possibility?

Thanks for all your advice and your patience. It's a bit of a learning curve.
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In order to reduce confusion, you should setup the Melco as Roon Ready to use with the K-03XD first. At this stage please ignore MinimServer for now. (MinimServer becomes relevant only if you purchase N-03T and decide to play local music files with it. Melco also runs MinimServer.)

The Nucleus already has a m.2 SSD as boot drive. The boot drive cannot be used to store music. If you don't need to play local music files, you don't need a USB storage device attached. You may use a USB SSD to be connected to the Nucleus if you want to, but it is not recommend to connect to the Esoteric and Lumin streamers as USB SSD draw too much power for these streamers.
 
paleo12 said:
The streamer will be an Esoteric N03T, which I believe is Roon ready.
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Forget Roon. Stream Spotify Premium direct to the N03T. You'll be blown away by the sound quality, and the simplicity. I have an Esoteric Grandioso SACD transport mostly gathering dust because the Spotify stream sound is so good.
 
brodricj said:
Forget Roon. Stream Spotify Premium direct to the N03T. You'll be blown away by the sound quality, and the simplicity. I have an Esoteric Grandioso SACD transport mostly gathering dust because the Spotify stream sound is so good.
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Life is too short to be listening at 320kbps... :D
 
Nothing wrong with 320kbps through an Esoteric streamer...it's glorious, and solves any confusion the OP might have.
 
brodricj said:
Nothing wrong with 320kbps through an Esoteric streamer...it's glorious, and solves any confusion the OP might have.
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I'll stick to my glorious 192/24 Qobuz "lossless" streams and without the MQA/Tidal artificial sweeteners from Roon but I have no doubt your Spotify/Esoteric listen at 320kbps is glorious as well.
 
We are working hard to prepare for Spotify HiFi (lossless instead of 320kbps) later this year.
 
For various reasons, I think the Melco will have to go. I do have some albums on the HDDs in the Melco, which I aim to copy to the SSD in the NUC. I have now gathered that the Melco has a version of MinimServer on it. Is there any reason why installing MinimServer on the SSD in the NUC, alongside the music files, would not be functional? I understand I would be duplicating functionality in a way.
 
To continue this discussion, we will have to make a distinction between NUC and Nucleus.

NUC is a general purpose computer manufactured by Intel, at a price that is similar to a normal PC. You are going to install an OS on it by yourself, usually Windows. On Windows, you can have Windows OS, Roon software, Roon database, and music files all on a single SSD. Since it's Windows, you can install anything else you like, including MinimServer.

Nucleus is a NUC customized by Roon Labs with fanless chassis with its own customized OS, sold in audio retail channel at an audio equipment price. You are not going to install an OS on it. You cannot install any software on it. You cannot put music files in its boot SSD - it won't work. So if you have local music files you have to have another 2.5" or USB drive.

If you have determined to buy the N-03T, and you are only going to use Roon, or are not going to play local music files, then don't worry about MinimServer.

If you are going to play local music files from Esoteric or Lumin app, you need MinimServer to be running on a computer. You cannot install MinimServer to a Nucleus running Nucleus Roon OS, so you need another computer or NAS to run the MinimServer. You can install MinimServer to Windows on NUC, so the NUC runs both Roon and MinimServer.

As I said, to reduce confusion, you should start with a Roon-only configuration.
 
ArnoP said:
Frankly I had excellent SQ with my macbook being the core linked via USB to the DAC but the annoying thing was the USB cable running across the living room...so had to get the nucleus close to the DAC to separate the control function from the actual core function
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my experience is that I notice between the cores. This week had a day off due to Kings day, made my nuc fanless. Not even thinking that the sound quality could improve, but to my surprise it did :disbelief:. The same motherboard, the same SSD/ memory, and linux software, only the plastic nuc case was changed by a hard heavy metal Akasa case.

by the way, my Roon mini pc can work on wifi too :happy:
 
That is one of the reasons why I always tell people to use fanless Roon Core or fanless NAS. Naturally our own L1 product is also fanless. Same for the EUR24k server.
 
Hi, thanks for that. It took a little while, but I think I've wrapped my head around it. Some time ago, I was thinking of buying the NAS you mentioned (QNAP HS-453DX) as it seemed to offer everything necessary: M.2 drives for the Roon OS and a RAID for the albums. I then learned that the processor is probably not powerful enough to do the heavy lifting.

I will buy a fanless NUC and a techie friend will install the OS and the necessary software. I'll just stick to Roon and see how that goes.

Thanks for you advice and your patience.
 
paleo12 said:
Hi, thanks for that. It took a little while, but I think I've wrapped my head around it. Some time ago, I was thinking of buying the NAS you mentioned (QNAP HS-453DX) as it seemed to offer everything necessary: M.2 drives for the Roon OS and a RAID for the albums. I then learned that the processor is probably not powerful enough to do the heavy lifting.

I will buy a fanless NUC and a techie friend will install the OS and the necessary software. I'll just stick to Roon and see how that goes.

Thanks for you advice and your patience.
Click to expand...

Beware about buying the right nuc. The nucs that work according to Roon are from version 5i3 or higher and the newest version 11 is not implemented yet for Roon Rock

Second, those cases are hard to find too and every generation has its own case so when buying such a nuc take also a look if those cases are somewhere available. Those akasa cases are amazing and they fit very well.
 
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