CES 2014 - Day 3

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 03:26 PM

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Wow. Just wow. Listening to Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions on these speakers is an experience.

**joeinid** · January 9, 2014, 03:28 PM

What is the gear Mike?

Ah. Looks like MSB and Sound labs.

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 03:28 PM

The rudest person I have encountered was sadly also in this room. Yes he was from SoundLabs. He obviously skipped all customer service classes and optimizes what not to do.

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 03:28 PM

All MSB Joe.

**joeinid** · January 9, 2014, 03:31 PM

Wow!

Originally Posted by Mike

All MSB Joe.

**Joe P** · January 9, 2014, 03:53 PM

Mike did you get a chance to listen to the Alexias in the Musical Surroundings room(Venetian Suite # 30 - 136)?

**-E-** · January 9, 2014, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

The rudest person I have encountered was sadly also in this room. Yes he was from SoundLabs. He obviously skipped all customer service classes and optimizes what not to do.

Even more rude than Magico, Wilson, LAMM? (Wilson has since been rectified with Deb's involvement.)

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by jap

Mike did you get a chance to listen to the Alexias in the Musical Surroundings room(Venetian Suite # 30 - 136)?

I've heard it all.

Sounded great.

**the professor** · January 9, 2014, 04:18 PM

I'll bet you have.

Originally Posted by Mike

I've heard it all.

**NorthStar** · January 9, 2014, 04:43 PM

Today is Day number 3 at CES T.H.E SHOW at Las Vegas (Sin City), Nevada - How many days total, seven?

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 05:10 PM

Heard this in native double DSD on the Nagra and some speakers called Alexia's...never heard of them.

This demo was a holy F moment.

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**NorthStar** · January 9, 2014, 05:41 PM

Alexias are some awesome speakers from Wilson Audio Mike.

* "F" for 'Fantastic'?

**NorthStar** · January 9, 2014, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by -E-

Even more rude than Magico, Wilson, LAMM? (Wilson has since been rectified with Deb's involvement.)

Emile, I always thought that there were no rudeness in our beautiful audio/music hobby. ...Just total peace and love on our planet as music is the true universal language, which speaks directly to the human soul in a good friendly/spirited fashion of all man's and animal's kingdom.
I did not miss anything, did I not?

**still-one** · January 9, 2014, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by -E-

Even more rude than Magico, Wilson, LAMM? (Wilson has since been rectified with Deb's involvement.)

E
Is it possible that some manufacturers are a bit more rude as CES since that show is supposed to be for the press and industry where dealers and manufacturers meet to discuss opportunities, see what lines they may want to add etc. Are they only curt when the casual visitor takes up their "valuable" time. This is not RMAF after all. Since I have never attended I was just wondering.

**dlb2** · January 9, 2014, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Heard this in native double DSD on the Nagra and some speakers called Alexia's...never heard of them.

This demo was a holy F moment.

Out with the old, in with the Nagra...

**NorthStar** · January 9, 2014, 06:27 PM

Some audio dealers are uneducated and un-respectful; that I fully agree.

I saw that often in over 40 years that I frequented some of them audio establishments.
And it's very sad because it gives the company a bad rap.
The better you are (totally honest and good in your heart and soul) and that you respect everyone equally,
the better it is for the companies you are representing.
And that, is a solid fact!

**still-one** · January 9, 2014, 06:42 PM

Mike
I know things are hectic there but did you see any "All In One" alternatives to Sony's HAP -Z1 ES? I am looking for a player to supplement my SooLoos that will handle DSD, has built in storage and has a decent interface. I was not impressed with the Aurender interface or the issues it seems to have when switching between the various resolutions/formats.

**Bruce** · January 9, 2014, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

The rudest person I have encountered was sadly also in this room. Yes he was from SoundLabs. He obviously skipped all customer service classes and optimizes what not to do.

Nah the rudest one by country mile is that one in the Magico room--he needs a Charisma bypass

closely followed by Empirical-they both deserve one another

Bruce

**microstrip** · January 9, 2014, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Heard this in native double DSD on the Nagra and some speakers called Alexia's...never heard of them.

This demo was a holy F moment.

Mike,
Are you goind to listen to the Nagra HD DAC in your system? You seem to be needing a top DAC - surely, only next week!

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by microstrip

Mike,
Are you goind to listen to the Nagra HD DAC in your system? You seem to be needing a top DAC - surely, only next week!

Nope. I'm happy with the Lumin. But the Nagra sounds terrific. $28,000 is a little steep.

**mdkim** · January 9, 2014, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Nope. I'm happy with the Lumin. But the Nagra sounds terrific. $28,000 is a little steep.

With your history and recent fever...you're not qualified to use the word "steep!"

**joeinid** · January 9, 2014, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by mdkim

With your history and recent fever...you're not qualified to use the word "steep!"

**Mike** · January 9, 2014, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by mdkim

With your history and recent fever...you're not qualified to use the word "steep!"

Ha! But the things I bought won't be outdated in three weeks!

I still remember all the 24/96 DACs I owned (thinking this would be it.) HA!

After hearing Double DSD today, I think I know where the future is.....well, at least its where I hope it goes!

Mike

**cmalak** · January 9, 2014, 11:20 PM

Mike...the Nagra HD DAC is priced 19.9K in Euros )see news section here: 6moons.com: News Room) so at today's 1.36 $ to the Euro that's about $27K plus importer's slice of the markup gets you to $28K pretty quick. Interesting! The DAC portion (incl DSD functionality) was outsourced to Andreas Koch of Playback Designs. Nagra did their thing on the rest of it. There is a detailed preview of it on 6Moons.com (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nagra7/1.html: Srajan's writing is always over the top and too long but he does give you a lot of detail if you want it), so for those interested that's a nice reference.

**-E-** · January 9, 2014, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce

Nah the rudest one by country mile is that one in the Magico room--he needs a Charisma bypass

closely followed by Empirical-they both deserve one another

Bruce

Nice to know so little has changed. :/

**-E-** · January 10, 2014, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by still-one

E
Is it possible that some manufacturers are a bit more rude as CES since that show is supposed to be for the press and industry where dealers and manufacturers meet to discuss opportunities, see what lines they may want to add etc. Are they only curt when the casual visitor takes up their "valuable" time. This is not RMAF after all. Since I have never attended I was just wondering.

Actually... No. And at no point is being so overtly pompous the right thing to do when you are trying to build sales/networks. Some people at ces truly represent their brand and are some of the most cordial, friendly people out there. Some examples are Dave and Sara from WW, Rich @ Boulder, James @ bryston and numerous others that make you want to represent the brand because they believe in building a robust relationship.

**Dpod4** · January 10, 2014, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by -E-

Actually... No. And at no point is being so overtly pompous the right thing to do when you are trying to build sales/networks. Some people at ces truly represent their brand and are some of the most cordial, friendly people out there. Some examples are Dave and Sara from WW, Rich @ Boulder, James @ bryston and numerous others that make you want to represent the brand because they believe in building a robust relationship.

There are truly gracious wonderful leaders of some of these companies -- Keith Herron, John McDonaldat Audience, Allen Perkins at Spiral Groove, Dan at Modwright, and the list goes on. Each of those has humbly and patiently and unreservedly spent hours helping me and servicing their equipment.

**VT Skier** · January 10, 2014, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by still-one

E
Is it possible that some manufacturers are a bit more rude as CES since that show is supposed to be for the press and industry where dealers and manufacturers meet to discuss opportunities, see what lines they may want to add etc. Are they only curt when the casual visitor takes up their "valuable" time. This is not RMAF after all. Since I have never attended I was just wondering.

Jim,

I'm not there this year but have gone many, many times, and your point is well taken. CES really is supposed to be trade only, and the expenses to host a room are exorbitant, possibly the highest of all the shows, so some manufacturers' representatives can be less than helpful, or even curt, when a member of the "public" starts asking questions or otherwise takes time away from what the vendor hopes will be a profitable presentation of their wares.

Having said that, more and more members of the public are finding their way into the show, manufacturers know this, and I've found that the reception in recent years, particularly after the recent economic downturn, has been more friendly. Given that, if a member of the public does attend and expects the kind of reception typically received at a consumer oriented show like RMAF, they're just being unrealistic.

I've not found any particular manufacturer to be less courteous than any other. For example, many people complain about Magico generally, and Alon Wolf in particular, but I've not found their responses to be noticeably different from other vendors. In fact, I've always found the Magico room to be filled with competent, and professional people, like Irv Gross, happy to answer intelligent questions about their products but not interested in chit chat. People also complain about Alon, but I've found him willing to answer honestly questions about his products and design choices. He may not be the friendliest person, but I've never found him to be rude or discourteous. Some rooms are more welcoming than others, but I don't expect anyone to greet me effusively since I'm not a dealer, distributor or anyone else they'd want to talk to in order to recoup some of the massive investment they've made in attending the four-day show.

At CES, I tend to stay in the background, happy to hear and see so many fantastic systems that, living in Vermont, I would otherwise never experience. If I'm curious about something, I try to ask questions when a representative isn't otherwise engaged with someone who might actually be important to their future. In other words, it's a trade show, I'm not a member of the trade, and I do my best to remain cognizant of that. And it's always worked pretty well for me.

If you want a lengthy chat with someone, it's probably best to pick your moments, like when the room is empty, and realize that this may not be the best opportunity, or the best show, for that kind of interaction. If an important dealer or distributor comes in the door, your conversation may end very abruptly. As it probably should if the vendor's ultimate goal is to stay in business.

**Mike** · January 10, 2014, 10:44 AM

I found most folks at CES to be friendly. My one incident was at THE Show over at the Flamingo and not part of CES. In that room, I merely requested "anything with female vocals, like Cowboy Junkies or Norah Jones or Diana Krall." The person just ignored me (he was not helping or talking to anyone), he was manning the iPad and sitting beside me. I asked again. Nothing. He continued to scroll through the lists of artists and picked something himself - ignoring me a third time. That's all.

I later found out he was a volunteer (read friend) for this particular manufacturer.

No big deal. As I said, this was at the Flamingo and part of THE Show and technically not part of CES.

At CES, I found most rooms to be friendly - including the Magico room where Irv was more than willing to pose for a picture for me.

That being said, they really should change the name of the show from the Consumer Electronics Show to the Buyers Electronics Show. The Buyers (dealers, distributors) were really who the manufacturers wanted to meet.

**VT Skier** · January 10, 2014, 10:56 AM

I imagine Irv got even friendlier when you said "You know, I've been thinking about moving from the S5 to the Q7. I need speakers that will really take advantage of my Trinity DAC."

**wisnon** · January 10, 2014, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Ha! But the things I bought won't be outdated in three weeks!

I still remember all the 24/96 DACs I owned (thinking this would be it.) HA!

After hearing Double DSD today, I think I know where the future is.....well, at least its where I hope it goes!

Mike

Ha.

Told yah!

First I infected Bob and now you. Joe should have been first, but he chickened out! LoL

**wisnon** · January 10, 2014, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by VT Skier

I imagine Irv got even friendlier when you said "You know, I've been thinking about moving from the S5 to the Q7. I need speakers that will really take advantage of my Trinity DAC."

Woooohooohooo.

Hehehe

Leave Mike alone. LoL

**joeinid** · January 10, 2014, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Ha.

Told yah!

First I infected Bob and now you. Joe should have been first, but he chickened out! LoL

Par for the course. Next time?

**the professor** · January 10, 2014, 12:59 PM

I think in general terms - the manufacturers are A LOT more friendly now than they were 10-20 years ago. Back then it was very common to get an f u if you weren't a buyer.

I think that they are much more friendly nowadays because there are very few quality dealers in the USA and they realize that they DO have to sell and deal with the end customer. This along with the fact that each manufacturer prob goes to 2-3 additional shows during the year that are for the end consumer. So they get a lot more practice at shows.

Originally Posted by Mike

I found most folks at CES to be friendly. My one incident was at THE Show over at the Flamingo and not part of CES. In that room, I merely requested "anything with female vocals, like Cowboy Junkies or Norah Jones or Diana Krall." The person just ignored me (he was not helping or talking to anyone), he was manning the iPad and sitting beside me. I asked again. Nothing. He continued to scroll through the lists of artists and picked something himself - ignoring me a third time. That's all.

I later found out he was a volunteer (read friend) for this particular manufacturer.

No big deal. As I said, this was at the Flamingo and part of THE Show and technically not part of CES.

At CES, I found most rooms to be friendly - including the Magico room where Irv was more than willing to pose for a picture for me.

That being said, they really should change the name of the show from the Consumer Electronics Show to the Buyers Electronics Show. The Buyers (dealers, distributors) were really who the manufacturers wanted to meet.

**veindoc** · January 10, 2014, 01:12 PM

Hey Mike spend any time evaluating the Alexias with Nagra amps etc. How did it compare to Dags or other tube combos.?

Nick

**-E-** · January 10, 2014, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

I think in general terms - the manufacturers are A LOT more friendly now than they were 10-20 years ago. Back then it was very common to get an f u if you weren't a buyer.

I think that they are much more friendly nowadays because there are very few quality dealers in the USA and they realize that they DO have to sell and deal with the end customer. This along with the fact that each manufacturer prob goes to 2-3 additional shows during the year that are for the end consumer. So they get a lot more practice at shows.

While I somewhat agree with this sentiment, I think you abandoned the voice that forums/internet/social media have given to... just about everyone. Everyone is now "press" via forum-ownership, blogging, whatever. And they have a far wider reach than some silly brick and mortar dealer trying to go back to the hayday 15 years ago. If a manufacturer pisses off a kid in ratty jeans and a ballcap, that kid could have 2 million hits a month to his audio blog - which just happens to be read by, oh, a huge population of high-income perspective buyers trying to do research about a particular product. Oops!

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce

Nah the rudest one by country mile is that one in the Magico room--he needs a Charisma bypass

closely followed by Empirical-they both deserve one another

Bruce

Not this guy?

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Nope. I'm happy with the Lumin. But the Nagra sounds terrific. $28,000 is a little steep.

**tunes** · January 10, 2014, 02:45 PM

Mike, you lucky dog!
Love margo timmins and Iz

Would love to hear that nagra dac.
Did you listen to redbook through the dac? If so, any thoughts?
Chris

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by -E-

Actually... No. And at no point is being so overtly pompous the right thing to do when you are trying to build sales/networks.
Some people at CES truly represent their brand and are some of the most cordial, friendly people out there. Some examples are Dave and Sara from WW, Rich @ Boulder, James @ bryston and numerous others that make you want to represent the brand because they believe in building a robust relationship.

One of the most important aspects (the most important one) in all this hy hend audio business.

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by -E-

While I somewhat agree with this sentiment, I think you abandoned the voice that forums/internet/social media have given to... just about everyone. Everyone is now "press" via forum-ownership, blogging, whatever. And they have a far wider reach than some silly brick and mortar dealer trying to go back to the hayday 15 years ago. If a manufacturer pisses off a kid in ratty jeans and a ballcap, that kid could have 2 million hits a month to his audio blog - which just happens to be read by, oh, a huge population of high-income perspective buyers trying to do research about a particular product. Oops!

That! ...Right on Emile, your vision is real clear and truly realistic.

...Don't mess with the Mystery Man!

...Don't mess with today's kids, and don't even mess less with full grown adults! ...Just don't mess with no one!

**Bruce** · January 10, 2014, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by NorthStar

Not this guy?

Definitely NOT--thats Peter Madnick of Constellation friendly and humble-- the Magico dude has been mentioned earlier in this thread --seems he is well known for his manner!

Bruce

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 06:59 PM

He seems to be a very friendly guy, and who perhaps loves to play chess (I do).

* It's a Magico speaker behind him to the left?

**Dpod4** · January 10, 2014, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce

Definitely NOT--thats Peter Madnick of Constellation friendly and humble-- the Magico dude has been mentioned earlier in this thread --seems he is well known for his manner!

Bruce

Not just friendly and humble but also freaking brilliant.

**stereosystem** · January 10, 2014, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce

Nah the rudest one by country mile is that one in the Magico room--he needs a Charisma bypass

closely followed by Empirical-they both deserve one another

Bruce

???
Never had a bad experience in Magico room at CES or Munich show. Both Alon and his sales guys were really helpful. Actually, never had any problem at a show with any of the major brands. If you don't look like a tramp or behave like a jerk, owners of audio companies are in general very open and willing to share their knowledge. Of course, if you behave in an arrogant way, and try to monopolize attention when the booth owner is in discussion with one of his distributors, you may not be welcome, which is completely normal.
Maybe something you need to reflect on?

**NorthStar** · January 10, 2014, 08:48 PM

That's why I mentioned "chess".

**socfan12** · January 10, 2014, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by dlb2

Out with the old, in with the Nagra...

I got dibs on one of his Lumins!!

**Lildebs** · January 13, 2014, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by -E-

Even more rude than Magico, Wilson, LAMM? (Wilson has since been rectified with Deb's involvement.)

Wait... what? I heard my name (Just got back from CES). Were people from Wilson rude at CES?

**NorthStar** · January 13, 2014, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lildebs

Wait... what? I heard my name (Just got back from CES). Were people from Wilson rude at CES?

No Deb, Emile was simply referring to other life's circumstances at other space venues and at different times.
Don't worry, you are on the perfect track. ...The best of the best WA spokesperson.

**-E-** · January 13, 2014, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lildebs

Wait... what? I heard my name (Just got back from CES). Were people from Wilson rude at CES?

From a couple of years ago Pre-Deb-Involvement. I would be aghast if it was happening recently.

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