Cartridge question - opinions

**Randy Myers** · April 8, 2020, 11:56 AM

Since recently getting back into vinyl I have updated my table and cartridge, etc. I am currently using an Ortofon 2M Bronze.

Back in the day I was a huge Grace fan; F-9E, and the F-9E Ruby were my favorites. My question is can cartridges that are 30 years old hold up? I have an opportunity to pick up a F-9E, so my concern is how do these stack up against current generation cartridges? Are these cartridges, that were in a league of their own in my view, still retain this top notch status?

**mep** · April 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

In what price range Randy?

**audio.bill** · April 8, 2020, 01:24 PM

Randy - A couple of things to keep in mind... cartridges use dampers around the cantilevers (generally speaking, for the majority of conventional MM or MC cart designs) to control their movement as it tracks the signal, and that damping is critically tuned as part of the design process. The materials used for such damping tend to change their physical characteristics over time as they age and harden. So even if a cartridge hasn't been used much or at all, over a period of years (or decades in the case of those Grace carts) their performance will be far from optimal or near their target characteristics that they were tuned for. You can have vintage carts rebuilt from a number of sources where they can replace the stylus, cantilever, and even the suspension as needed, but you'll rarely end up with the same sound that the original cartridge had. Anything you change in the design will affect the resultant sound performance. So while there are some people who still rave about such vintage cartridges you should understand that they simply can't still perform as they were designed unless they can be rebuilt by the original builder to meet the exact original design specifications. So to summarize I think you'd be much better served sticking with currently manufactured cartridges.

**Randy Myers** · April 8, 2020, 01:39 PM

MEP; in the $340-$350 range. Listed as very low hours....

audio.bill; this is my worry. They were amazing... but would even a brand new one still be??? I know Soundsmith have stylus's they have developed for the Grace, but are they as good???? I think you might be right...

**Randy Myers** · April 8, 2020, 01:41 PM

Hmmmm... no idea why this duplicate posted.... Joe, Mike, if you could delete this that would be good

.

**Mikado463** · April 8, 2020, 02:18 PM

Randy, I agree with Bill, Never the less the Grace F9e was my go-to back in the day as well .......

**Kuoppis** · April 8, 2020, 02:43 PM

I think you can buy young pre-loved, but carts are mechanical parts so they do wear out.

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**puroagave** · April 8, 2020, 03:57 PM

30 year old carts can still perform admirably. I possess more than dozen from that era, many on their 2nd and some their 3rd rebuild. Presently I have 5 MCs with Steve Leung for rebuilds/check ups and two with ESR in the UK. They're mfrd either by Scantech (Lyra) or Supex (Koetsu). It's not common knowledge to many that a market for vintage and previously loved cartridges exist and most collectors I trade with can afford anything.

**MikeCh** · April 8, 2020, 07:50 PM

Randy,

There are some older cartridges that have replaceable stylii like the Stanton 681 MM series from the 70's/80's that are a bit more immune from age as they had a robust structure to stand up to DJ abuse back in the day. Likely these are not what you're looking for, but wanted to add that not all cartridges degrade simply due to age.

**Randy Myers** · April 8, 2020, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Randy,

There are some older cartridges that have replaceable stylii like the Stanton 681 MM series from the 70's/80's that are a bit more immune from age as they had a robust structure to stand up to DJ abuse back in the day. Likely these are not what you're looking for, but wanted to add that not all cartridges degrade simply due to age.

Which is cool, and thank you. Curious if anyone has opinions on Grace in this regards. I know there are lots of Grace fans out there

.

**Randy Myers** · April 8, 2020, 08:27 PM

Not sure why I keep getting dups here.... sorry...

**Randy Myers** · April 9, 2020, 10:47 AM

Thanks for the input. I think I have decided to not invest money in this 30 year old cartridge, even though back in the day it was my favorite!

**Mikado463** · April 9, 2020, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Thanks for the input. I think I have decided to not invest money in this 30 year old cartridge, even though back in the day it was my favorite!

Randy, just hold onto the memories, that's what I've done !

**MikeCh** · April 9, 2020, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Thanks for the input. I think I have decided to not invest money in this 30 year old cartridge, even though back in the day it was my favorite!

Randy, so what cartridge(s) are you entertaining to replace the Ortofon 2M Black? A replacement stylus for the Black or something else entirely?

**Randy Myers** · April 9, 2020, 08:45 PM

At this point I am not sure. The bronze is very close to the black with a little less surface noise. It sounds pretty good so not in a huge hurry at this point.

Under consideration so far;
Audio Technica (always liked Signet)
Denon (I hear they have nice reasonably priced MC)
Rega (to match my table)
Clearaudio (friend keeps mentioning their higher end MM, definitely upper end of what I would be considering)
Stay with Ortofon 2M Bronze of get another Black stylus

Other suggestions?

**MikeCh** · April 9, 2020, 10:46 PM

Gotcha. I find that the Cadenza Bronze is a low surface noise cartridge and wonder if its a common thing with all the "bronze" models within each cart series from Ortofon?

Enjoy!

**Kuoppis** · April 10, 2020, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

At this point I am not sure. The bronze is very close to the black with a little less surface noise. It sounds pretty good so not in a huge hurry at this point.

Under consideration so far;
Audio Technica (always liked Signet)
Denon (I hear they have nice reasonably priced MC)
Rega (to match my table)
Clearaudio (friend keeps mentioning their higher end MM, definitely upper end of what I would be considering)
Stay with Ortofon 2M Bronze of get another Black stylus

Other suggestions?

Clearaudio Virtuoso V2 and Lyra’s entry MC Delos are quite nice.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Randy Myers** · April 10, 2020, 08:57 AM

I think the Clearaudio Virtuoso V2 is the one my vinyl-phile friend keeps recommending!

**Randy Myers** · April 11, 2020, 11:48 AM

Anyone have any experience with Rega cartridges? Been thinking of something like the Ania because it is a perfect match to the table. I am also sure that the SimAudio can handle it.

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