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Thread: $350 Cartridge
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April 23, 2019, 08:00 AM #1
$350 Cartridge
In the land of ridiculousness, phono cartridge prices have gone through the roof. I personally think a teeny tiny phono cartridge should cost no more than $350. There must certainly be a giant killer out there in that price range. After all in the old days phono cartridges were the most discounted hifi device out there. And now the whole industry is telling us we “must” buy low output devices. This raises the price bar even higher.
I would love to hear from audiophiles that have found just that. Preferably a high output one. Anybody ?== Joe ==
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April 23, 2019, 10:50 AM #2
Re: $350 Cartridge
Go to https://www.needledoctor.com/ They have lots of cartridges in the price range you are looking for. There are plenty of cartridges available for less than $350 so have a blast picking one out.Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 02:21 PM #3
Re: $350 Cartridge
No Mep, looking for a “Giant Killer” not low fi. Already visited that world.
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April 23, 2019, 02:28 PM #4
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Nagaoka MP-200 is a giant killer. But it leans on the slightly warmer and romantic side. The cheaper MP-150 has a similar sound and is cheaper. Both are medium compliance cartridges but people do run them with high compliance tone arms with good results. They need 30 hours of break-in. They have a lush deep mid range without sacrificing transparency. They perform above their price point but I can't say that they will sound better than an 800 cartridge. Look at some of the Hana cartridges, great reviews.
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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April 23, 2019, 02:38 PM #5
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 02:38 PM #6
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 02:45 PM #7Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 03:11 PM #8
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April 23, 2019, 03:17 PM #9
Re: $350 Cartridge
The Nagaoka MP-200 is a great “Bang for the Buck “ cartridge ......have one in a vintage SME 3009, and have to say I am more than pleasantly surprised.....
It’s not embarressed by a Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (2200.00 MSRP) that is also being used in the same arm. Both cartridges are being used in a PBN AUDIO custom Denon DP 80 Table.
Cheers....
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April 23, 2019, 03:23 PM #10
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 03:47 PM #11
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Didn't we do this all once before?
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April 23, 2019, 03:55 PM #12
Re: $350 Cartridge
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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April 23, 2019, 04:31 PM #13
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Re: $350 Cartridge
I agree. In my opinion, he is looking for the non-existent at any price. I personally believe there are no such things as “giant killers” in phono cart land.
That said, while I believe the demarcation line for diminishing returns is very low on phono carts in my opinion, there are many reasonably priced phono carts that will do the job extremely well and then some. There are a few carts even in the $200 to $400 range that punch above their price. That is all we can ask.
The important thing is tonearm matching and set up as well as what kind of phono preamp situation is at hand. Any of those factors can make or break a $100 cart or a $25,000 cart. (One of the nice things about analog is that the smallest tweak can change the sound. For example, just changing the turntable mat).
Yes, not providing the table he is using at least, is a non-starter for recommendations.
NeedleDr has a huge choice of carts (biggest I have seen) and most are not “lo-fi”, but they have a couple of those too. Heck, even the lowly AT VM95E is a great beginner cart. The other nice thing about phono carts is that you really don’t have to spend too much more for very notable results. Just going from a $50 AT95E to a $110 AT120E/B was a vast improvement for me on one of my turntables. (Those are now the AT VM95E and VM530 respectively). Jump to a Ortofon 2M Blue or Bronze and it will be obvious again. Personally, I think once you hit above $800, the differences in performance of phono carts starts getting extremely small to the point of being undetectable, but that's just my opinion.
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April 23, 2019, 04:49 PM #14
Re: $350 Cartridge
Thanks MEP. You are uncanny in attacking anything I say. I was merely expressing my frustration in this reawakening format. I do see a definite trend in manufacturers that never ventured into low output cartridges, suddenly making them. Grado and Soundsmith as examples. I also have been around the hifi block a few times. High output cartridges are becoming extinct. I’ve watched small two way transducers go from a maximum price of $1,500 to $38,500 like the Borrensons (case in point). Go ahead and defend the industry to the fullest. I am simply an audiophile trying to make sense of it all. You can use this forum to attack my statements, that is your prerogative. But I would rather hear from audiophiles that share my frustration and have found avenues to attain hifi in spite of industry pricing trends. The fact is, cartridges have become a major ripoff. I will sooner give up on this format than be sucked into these overly inflated prices.
== Joe ==
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April 23, 2019, 05:45 PM #15
Re: $350 Cartridge
Joe, there are plenty of great cartridges that do not cost an arm and a leg. I'm not sure why you seem to have your blinders on unless you're just trying to start an argument. I think jack is right, haven't we gone down this road before ............
Cheers ! …. Dave
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April 23, 2019, 06:16 PM #16
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Yes, this is what I tried to say. I get the frustration. I'm not an audiophile and prices of audio are extra frustrating, but they don't have to be always. Cart prices have gone up on some, but others have been the same price for years. There are plenty of "high-end" or "Hi-Fi" products out there that are reasonable and more on the way! As for phono carts, hell, there are plenty of folks pleased as punch with an Ortofon 2M Blue or a Denon DL-103. MC carts are always more expensive and there are plenty of MM carts that are just as good as MC carts for a bit less. Choices abound.
I sense that this may be more about argument than shopping or something.
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April 23, 2019, 07:45 PM #17
Re: $350 Cartridge
even people that could care less about vinyl playback weighed in with an opinion, name calling, etc:
Is anybody discounting phono cartridges any more ?
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April 23, 2019, 07:53 PM #18
$350 Cartridge
Seems to me like you have a couple of choices. Find an NOS example (ebay) of what you remember as having great value/ performance or follow what you've outlined above and just get out of vinyl altogether if you're not willing to spend more than $350. I will buy all of your records for one dollar each... but reserve the right to cherry pick and not take all the duds too
Look for a Stanton 981 LZS or 881 series new old stock cart. They were great carts.Avanti Audio
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April 23, 2019, 08:12 PM #19
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 23, 2019, 11:16 PM #20
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April 24, 2019, 12:34 AM #21
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Re: $350 Cartridge
I was not claiming that they could sound better than high end cartridges but they can compete with many sub $1K cartridges. Its all relative. They punch above their price points. If you are looking for a cartridge in the $300 range that is going to sound better than say $800 and above, good luck.
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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April 24, 2019, 09:51 AM #22
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 24, 2019, 09:54 AM #23Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 24, 2019, 09:57 AM #24
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 24, 2019, 10:35 AM #25
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April 24, 2019, 10:40 AM #26
Re: $350 Cartridge
Joe, if it's any consolation, I was listening to a vinyl setup Sunday, where the needle was $5k. Yes, the needle.
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April 24, 2019, 10:42 AM #27
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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April 24, 2019, 10:55 AM #28
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Yes, there are good carts for $350 and even below that! Also, yes, it is important to match cart and arm and without that info, it can't be done. The OP doesn't realize this or is purposely ignoring it. I don't think he would dig putting a low mass cart on a high mass arm, etc.
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April 24, 2019, 10:58 AM #29
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April 24, 2019, 11:15 AM #30
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Yeah, I get that. I'm not an audiophile and my income does not allow me to even dream of anything in the mid four figures (at least not without saving for several years), but you are right. There are plenty of high value examples and more coming soon! The speaker market is a good example, more speakers are coming out that are dropping in price, but using the same technology and parts as the uber-expensive siblings! Some speaker manufactures and designers are figuring this out resulting in more choices! The days of having to spend five figures or high four figures for great revealing speakers are drawing to a close.
Also just because something doesn't have an "audiophile" badge or sticker on it and a five figure price or more, doesn't mean it is crap and isn't high-end or "audiophile".
I've heard entire systems costing less than $5k blow away systems costing double that or more. Set-up is part of the secret.
There is a fair choice of gear out there that punch well about its price and a bit more coming. Sure, maybe the cartridge market has gotten tight with some gouging taking place, but with all the carts out there (nearly too many to count), there is still something for everyone. Prices are in constant flux, so I imagine when the cart makes figure out that they can't ride on the analog vinyl renaissance the way they think, they will adjust. (Simple business equation: lower price = sell more units = larger profit). They will figure that out, no worries. I see it happen from time to time.
As for carts though we have to keep in mind the labor involved. For instance, the Ortofon 2M series from the Bronze up are 100% hand made. Even the 2M Blue is 60% hand made! The folks that do this deserve to be paid.
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April 24, 2019, 12:56 PM #31
Re: $350 Cartridge
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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April 24, 2019, 01:31 PM #32
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Re: $350 Cartridge
Indeed! I personally think both MM and MC can sound fantastic equally, its all in setup.
I personally prefer MM because of:
Just easier
Easier to pair with phono stages
Less expensive (can replace stylus if one wants as well)
More flexible (you can swap out styli all day in the 2M series for example)
More choices out there, but the MC carts are not far behind
I also hear rumor that some of the more expensive cart makes (our European friends) are coming out with less expensive versions of their higher priced carts as in less than four figures and will likely sound fantastic. Keep an eye on EATs Mrs. Josephine Lichtenegger, I think she is working on that very thing. She just came out with a couple of nicely affordable tables! (No surprise, look who she is married to and how very nice of a person she is).
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July 12, 2019, 10:14 AM #33
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Re: $350 Cartridge
I'm currently not well informed about TTs and cartridges but in the OP's case it sounds like he might be better off purchasing a $400 to $800 TT with cartridge than a cartridge alone. I'm kind of in a similar position with my early '90s Technics quartz/auto DD turntable. Although it's likely not worth much and the sound is likely average by today's standards. By the time I purchase a cartridge for it I'd be 1/2 way to a decent TT and cartridge. I don't know this for sure as I don't currently have an amp to try things out. I will after the first of the year. But it seems to me there are some "decent" sounding TTs (with cartridge in some cases) in the $400 to $800 price range, give or take a hundred dollars. Am I wrong with my thinking on that?
https://www.audioadvice.com/content/...les-under-500/
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July 12, 2019, 10:28 AM #34
Re: $350 Cartridge
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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