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Thread: So, which cable sounds best?
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August 14, 2020, 12:34 PM #1
So, which cable sounds best?
Cardas Clear Cygnus cable has a list price of $840.00 per meter
Duelund 12ga 2x12awg cable has a list price of $52.95 per meter. Purchase price USD $31.95 per meter. I'm using 1.5 meter cables.
I've lived with the Cardas Clear Cygnus speaker cable for about three years. Love what this cable does in my system. I've used Cardas cables for over twenty years. I'm a big fan.
Just got in the Duelund 12ga 2x12 awg yesterday. Sale price $31.95 per meter. Hooked up with just bare wires on both ends.
Duelund vs Cardas.jpg
I'll take this weekend to play with both.Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 14, 2020, 12:49 PM #2
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I personally have found the following
1) cables do make a difference
2) cables are system dependent
I have tried the Dueland cables, both speaker and interconnects and look forward to your impression.My System
Acoustic Revive RTP-4
Innuos Pulsar
Lampizator BALTIC4
Cary SLP-05
Pass XA30.5 or
Line Magnetic 845ia
Reference 3A Reflector's
Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
Complete system on battery power/solar
Core Audio Design Rack
DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.
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August 14, 2020, 01:27 PM #3
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
have a three way, try Canare 4s11 at $5.25/meter. Its the exact cable Magico uses to internally wire their speakers.
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August 14, 2020, 01:53 PM #4
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
i will be very interested to hear your results.
i have used duelund 2x16 awg and 4x16 awg (which is aprox equivalent to 10awg) for speaker cables and just loved the sound. i now use cables made with with 12 awg western electric ks-13885 tinned copper conductor wire which i find a touch more lively / dynamic in my system.
have not heard the cardas but if i were not so fond of tinned-copper conductor wire for audio cables i would most certainly give them a try.
something to read while you are doing the A/B testing: Duelund Coherent Audio DCAviking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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August 14, 2020, 02:30 PM #5
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I use the Duelund 12ga tinned copper myself for speaker wires
Amplification : Modwright LS300 - Atma-Sphere "Class D" monoblocks
Digital : MSB Premier DAC+Digital Director, Oppo 203, Sonos Port (W4S mod)
Analog : Technics SL1200G, Boulder 508
Speakers : Daedalus Audio Muse Studio
Headphone : BHSE + Voce
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August 14, 2020, 02:51 PM #6
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Thanks for the link. Very interesting read.
Looking at the Western Electric website I see they only sell 100' spools of 12 awg for $368.00. That's much more than my need of four 1.5 meter cables. I would like to try the WE just to compare. I'll have to do a greater search for a shorter option.
As far as Canare cable that will have to wait until I finish this adventure.
I have to say that just listening this morning. I'm impressed. I don't hear a drop off from what I like about my Cardas cables. Very natural energy and clarity in vocals and instruments.Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 15, 2020, 11:17 AM #7
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August 16, 2020, 05:24 PM #8
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I switched to 16 gauge Duelund last year. Favorable comments about the 12 gauge made me make the switch. I later took the 16 and did the DIY Transparent Audio hack tweak to them. It consists of a small value inductor on the + lead and a cap and resistor across the two wires further down the run. I think it made a big improvement so when with that.
Main System: Analog - Linn LP12, Origin Live DC motor and Controller, SME V arm, Benz Ruby H 2 cartridge, Wright Sound preamp. Digital - Intel NUC I-7, 16 gig ram, Jriver media center 24, Wyrd4 Sound 2V2 SE Dac, Fathom Hard Drives.
H-Cat Version 9 preamp, ARC Reference 75 amp, Custom line source speakers - 10 SB Acoustics midwoofers, 10 Fountek ribbon tweeters. JL Audio Fathom f112 Subs
Wire - T G Audio, Shunyata, Synergistic Research , Audioquest, Lewis silver foil, Duelund, Transparent.
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August 17, 2020, 07:18 PM #9
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
A unrelated conversation with Jim Smith made me want to try the Duelund cables. I'm not really interested in trying every option of affordable cable out there.
I've been listening to the Duelund 12 ga cables all weekend. The only noticeable adjustment I make is to increase my volume by a couple of clicks on the Diablo 300. The sound output seems more in line with the Cardas listening level. I kept asking myself all weekend one question. What does the Cardas do that these cables don't do? And I've yet to pin down anything at this point. I thought the Duelund settled in after a day. But, that might just be me settling in.
So, at this point if this was a blind test. I don't think I could tell which cable is hooked up.Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 18, 2020, 11:27 AM #10
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
That’s interesting and not doubting what your hearing. I was curious on the Cardas build and read the use 4 15.5 AWG conductors that are wrapped and terminated using their process. Is the Dueland sleeved or jacketed at all, and assuming not terminated?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ProSource Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
Speakers: Wilson Alexias
Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS
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August 18, 2020, 11:38 AM #11
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 18, 2020, 11:47 AM #12
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
wow!! quite high praise for the cardas
seriously though, i would have expected some tonal difference... have not heard the cardas but have heard cables made with neotech copper conductors which are up-occ ultra-pure, mono-crystal copper. there was a pretty significant difference along the lines of that in the jeff day review.
any next steps or is curiosity satisfied?viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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August 18, 2020, 01:53 PM #13
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I still have nothing but high praise for Cardas cables and products. They have yielded great sound for all these years.
I plan on leaving in the Duelund for awhile and then switch back to the Cardas and decide where to go from there.
Western Electric does sell pre cut lengths to order. I may give those a shot at some time.Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 18, 2020, 02:53 PM #14
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
sounds good -- let us know how it goes when you make the switch back.
fwiw, the experiment is not complete until you try the WE wire.
viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | almarro a318b + air tight atc-5 (phono) | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + diy transport + roon rock
alp-tone audio analog cables | core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii
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August 22, 2020, 09:30 AM #15
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Let us know how it goes. I am also a fan of Cardas products. George knew in the early days of digital how to design cables to help tame the glare that was present. Most cable companies claim their cables are "neutral" and do not add or subtract anything, I'm calling bs on them. As far as the best cable? If your system is a bit dark and needs some "air", a brighter cable is best (Nordost?). If your system can be a bit "edgy", a smoother sounding cable is best (Cardas?). You can also use points or isolation under your components to change the sound. Are cables and isolation devices tone controls? Yes indeed.
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August 28, 2020, 06:28 PM #16
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
So, two weeks have passed. And I brought back the Cardas Clear Cygnus speaker cables.
I guess I would have to use the example of going from a fine wine to a inexpensive wine and back again. The complexity and subtle layers of a great wine is a tall order for a inexpensive wine to pull off. You can be surprised and pleased at what they do at its price point. But, then going back to a known quality wine and all of its many layers of complexities can make you realize why some wines just cost more.
But, by putting back the Cardas cables I heard the subtle details within the vocals and instruments of so many of my go to tracks of music. As well as how the tonal quality and complexities of instruments can be presented using the Cardas. Sometimes you have to mix things up in order to appreciate what you have. And what they do. That doesn't mean I'll never try other cables. I'm pretty sure I will. The energy, detail, soundstage and clarity make the Duelund a fine cable at its price point. But, in my system I'll stick for now with my preferred Cardas.Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
CD/DVD: Oppo 205
Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro
Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events
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August 28, 2020, 06:42 PM #17
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Experimentation like this makes for an interesting and fun hobby. A good learning experience.
Gary
Main: Lumin A1, Accuphase E-650, Tannoy Canterbury GR, Shunyata, Audience
Secondary: Lumin M1, Linton Heritage, Shunyata, Audience
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August 20, 2023, 04:31 PM #18
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I haven't tried it, but I have alot of others from them.
And it says that it compete well with Nordost best.
Supra Sword Excalibur speaker cables, not very expensive either but all is relative as Einstein said.
These are well built and speced.
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August 31, 2023, 02:44 PM #19
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Hello, This is a great thread. Which speaker cable would you recommend for excellent soundstage depth and width?
I am also interested in natural placement of instruments in excellent recordings.
Female voices are always a priority for my listening.
Best,
Mike
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August 31, 2023, 05:21 PM #20
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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August 31, 2023, 06:35 PM #21
Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Like others here I use Duelund 12 gauge oil / cotton twin core cables for speakers. This was originally recommended by Jim Smith, which for me is good reason not to look further - and certainly not to spend more on speaker cables. Not an easy cable to work with and both cores have black sleeves, so care needed if self-assembling.
In my view the cable that IMPROVES sound has yet to be invented – and it never will be - so minimising cables count has always been my aim in achieving best sound. If a DAC module is the size of a matchbox, then put it in the amp enclosure and you save a power supply, a fancy enclosure with associated sockets, and of course cables - interconnects and power varieties. Makes 100% sense to me! But I accept there are many here who take pride in their box collection and fully justify to themselves that the cost is rewarded by better sound – and a snake-pit of cables that have cost a fortune – but cannot actually IMPROVE the sound.Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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August 31, 2023, 06:44 PM #22
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
I use esprit eurêka for all my cables in my system, they are wonderful
use in akustik 4004 series in my 2nd system, they are wonderful as wellBurmester 911mk3 amplifier
Burmester 077 pre-amp
Burmester 217 turntable system
Burmester 111 streamer
Burmester 948 conditioner
Master Artist Signature Full Range Towers
Master Artist Signature Rack
Espirit Eureka cables
Silent Angel NX Network Switch
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September 2, 2023, 09:55 AM #23
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September 2, 2023, 10:37 AM #24
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September 3, 2023, 09:28 PM #25
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September 5, 2023, 02:13 PM #26
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Re: So, which cable sounds best?
Almost all 'R' (Resistance). it's the total end-to-end resistance of the cable that matters.
the total 'C' (Capacitance) only matters with some legacy and boutique amplifiers.
the total 'L' (Inductance) only matters with some very low impedance loudspeakers (think Apogee).
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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Ok, thanks very much for the quick response.
Esoteric DAC type, DSD or PCM?