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Thread: Biwire cable layout
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March 12, 2020, 06:16 PM #1Senior Member
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Biwire cable layout
I asked this on Audiogon with little response. Hopefully, some cable experts here can help:
I want to try bi-wiring to see if it is worthwhile in my system.
I have two pairs of unshielded Duelund speaker cables for bi-wiring my speakers. I have dual mono tube amps, full-range - no electronic xovers involved.
Assuming the 16 ga. treble pair & the 12 ga. bass/mid pair are both lightly twisted in one direction (or not), what to do with the 2 pairs in each channel?
FWIW - I do not mean combining left & right channel cables in a single run. Only the bass & treble cables within each channel.
Should I not twist them together, or twist them together as well?
Same direction (clockwise or anticlockwise) or reverse?
I've seen replies to this inquiry in the past, but nothing recent. Your input will be most appreciated.DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
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March 13, 2020, 08:38 AM #2Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Lets look at a Cat5 cable. It has 4 pairs of conductors, each twisted at a different rate. So lightly twist each pair at a different rate. Then even more lightly twist the 2 pairs together, maybe in the opposite direction. At audio frequencies and speaker impedances, crosstalk and interference pickup won't be big problems. It would be more of a mechanical, ease of construction thing.
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March 13, 2020, 01:42 PM #3Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Thanks Speedskater!
That's close to what I thought, but the reply at Audio Asylum - the Cables forum, not Audiogon as I mistakenly posted above - was somewhat different (edited slightly, for relevance & grammar):
"I would keep the pairs for high and low separated. Less magnetic induction from the bass pair to the high pair. Parallel wires per pair is what I would do. Twisting can add capacitance. Twisting for noise cancellation is more useful on low level cabling. I doubt if you can hear the difference. Just test it. It also depends on the amp-speaker combination."
Any thoughts? Loudspeakers are Joseph Audio Perspective 2s, which come with the input connectors arranged for bi-wiring if the owner so chooses.DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
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March 13, 2020, 02:20 PM #4Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Don't worry about any of those things, they are over thinking stuff.
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March 13, 2020, 09:21 PM #5Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
I agree.
Originally Posted by Jim Smith
From my experience I would never put unshielded cables close to each other.
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March 13, 2020, 09:33 PM #6Senior Member
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Biwire cable layout
And your background is?? Originally Posted by Spock
(Just Asking because Speedskater shows in his tag that he has a background in audio and electronic engineering)
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March 13, 2020, 09:55 PM #7Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
I'm sorry, I didn't see at the entrance that the forum was restricted to engineers. My experience is really my practical experience of hours, weeks, months, or I must even say years because it is not over yet, making and undoing cables and experimenting ... and listening, and listening, and listening again... Originally Posted by nicoff
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March 14, 2020, 06:12 AM #8Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
The
I’m ultimately gonna have to listen for myself, but I truly appreciate anyone who has an opinion and who takes the time to offer it. Originally Posted by nicoff
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
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March 14, 2020, 09:56 AM #9Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Note that some pro audio people are sending 4 audio signals thru an unshielded Cat5 cable. Originally Posted by Spock
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March 14, 2020, 10:13 AM #10Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Jum,
I’d start with the cables separated by a few inches just because it is easiest to do. If you want to twist them together for aesthetic reasons then go for it. I think the capacitive coupling will be de minimus because the two cables are essentially at the same potential with respect to each other. Since each pair is already twisted the inductive coupling between twisted pairs will be very low as well.Tom
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March 14, 2020, 02:31 PM #11Senior Member
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Re: Biwire cable layout
Yes Tom, this is about speaker cables. With the amp's output impedance is less than 1 Ohm and the speaker's impedance is maybe 8 Ohms. So capacitance, inductance and crosstalk won't be problems.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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