Thread: Balanced Interconnects

I wanted to know what your views were on expensive branded XLR cables.
I know we all can hear the difference but have read that its quite more subtle compared to unbalanced interconnects.
This is because the shielding in RCA interconnects actually transmit the signal, whereas in balanced interconnects that is not the case.

I know there is no right or wrong answer so want to know about your experience and knowledge on the topic.

Accuphase and Burmester XLR it’s recommended


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

Balanced interconnect systems (it's not just the cable) can solve RCA hum & noise problems. They are more useful in long interconnects, especally when the equipment is powered by two different AC circuits.

Chose XLR interconnects that use a Shielded Twisted Pair (STP) made by a major bulk cable manufacture like Belden, Canare or Mogami. It takes big expensive machines to make quality bulk cables. For connectors use Neutrik or Switchcraft.

it all depends how the unit is built.
it needs to be fully symetric to gain any advantage with xlr and thats rarely the case.
quiet some manufactors use transformers at the xlr input.
i do belive in most cases rca is better. i got to admit this is not based on experiance.
guess best is to ask the manufactor in every single case. or testing if you can afford both types.
nagra recommends rca for theyr classic line, and audionet recommends strongly rca, even for theyr fully symetric heisenberg/stern combo.

Originally Posted by Alpinist

Also keep in mind what the superior connection is on the particular component you are using. Unfortunately, the single-ended connection on some components these days is almost an afterthought. Do your research.

Ken

Really agree with this. It depends on the component's design. Some components are based on a fully balanced design throughout. It doesn't just stop at the input or output (where balanced connectivity is often offered primarily as an accommodation). A fully balanced component is obviously more expensive to build. And I love the locking feature of balanced connectors. On the other hand, single ended has the advantage of simplicity and lower cost.

Hold on.
A balanced interconnect system is one thing and a fully balanced internal circuit is another very different thing.
Lets not get into an apples and oranges discussion.

The internal circuit design of a component has nothing to do with the advantages of a balanced interconnect system.

Originally Posted by Speedskater

Hold on.
A balanced interconnect system is one thing and a fully balanced internal circuit is another very different thing.
Lets not get into an apples and oranges discussion.

The internal circuit design of a component has nothing to do with the advantages of a balanced interconnect system.

They are related. A fully balanced component will not have to do internal conversions from balanced inputs to single ended for internal processing and from single ended internal processing to balanced for balanced outputs.

Originally Posted by GSOphile

They are related. A fully balanced component will not have to do internal conversions from balanced inputs to single ended for internal processing and from single ended internal processing to balanced for balanced outputs.

+1, very well explained
and to add, there are vaious quality level of transformers to do this process. with the best ones you probably wont realise it.

Originally Posted by GSOphile

They are related. A fully balanced component will not have to do internal conversions from balanced inputs to single ended for internal processing and from single ended internal processing to balanced for balanced outputs.

Well no.
The design, manufacturing and cost challenges of a fully balanced internal circuit far outweigh the easy conversion circuit design.

IMO there is no definitive answer that will apply in all cases. It depends on the execution/matching of the components involved and perhaps the environment. And in some cases there will be no audible differences.

Thanks All, I can say the XLR cables do sound different.
I bought a couple of Transparent Music Wave Plus Cables and so far I believe I should I have done this a while back.
We spend so much time and money in upgrading the components when a simple interconnect upgrade is where the benefit is at.

Originally Posted by Speedskater

Well no.
The design, manufacturing and cost challenges of a fully balanced internal circuit far outweigh the easy conversion circuit design.

I don't think many will deny that a true fully balanced piece will be significantly more expensive to build with comparable quality components than one that is not, and you will see this reflected in prices. The question is, is it worth it? Some of the best in the world think it is, offering only balanced connections. (Others have made the opposite choice, voting for the simplicity and lower cost of single ended solutions.)

Originally Posted by W9TR

I used to design broadcast audio gear for a living. How balanced inputs and outputs are designed is more important that the difference between single ended RCA and balanced XLR.

Putting aside the internal balanced component architecture for a minute.....

A well designed balanced input will have significant common mode noise rejection, expressed as the Common Mode Rejection Ratio (CMRR). CMRR is a measure of how well a balanced input stage rejects noise, usually powerline noise. A good input stage will have 60 - 80 dB of CMRR @ 60 Hz. I don’t see a lot of consumer gear manufacturers specifying CMRR. Another advantage of using XLR connectors is they lock, have high pressure contacts, and are just generally physically more robust that RCA.

By contrast, a single ended RCA interconnect has no common mode noise rejection. Worse that that, the cable shield is the signal ground and so you are connecting different component signal grounds together, which, depending on their design, especially power supplies, is inviting hum and ground loops into your system.

On the output side, if a balanced output is truly balanced and floating you can short one side to ground and have the level on the other side double. This is easy to do with transformers, much harder to do with solid state or tube output sections. I suspect most consumer gear won’t pass this test.

As far as sound, well that depends on how well the gear is engineered. Balanced interconnects may require more circuitry, which could degrade the sound. But there are exceptions, like the McIntosh MC 275, where an additional gain section is used for the single ended inputs as opposed to the balanced inputs.

On balance, even for short runs, the advantage of balanced interconnects not running signal ground on the cable shield between components is significant enough that I will default to balanced unless I can prove to myself that unbalanced sounds better or unbalanced is the only alternative.

Based on your experience, is there generally a preferred approach between:

- doubling up circuitry to generate a balanced signal: or

- using a transformer?