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  1. #1

    Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I'm very intrigued about this Duelund wire. I ordered a Don Sachs Preamp and he made a point to tell me he's using all Duelund wire in my build. I have been reading a good amount about interconnects and speaker cables made with this wire and apparently there's some kind of mojo happening with them. I ordered a few meters of different gauges and I'm going to make up some interconnects and use it for speaker cabling. I wonder if it can replace my Audioquest WEL Signature interconnects and Redwood speaker cable. I'll have to try hard to trust my ears and not my wallet. I do know the cabe takes a long time to settle in. I'll hook it up to my X350.8 while the amp is breaking in as well and then do a comparison with the AQ stuff.

  2. #2
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Do they make cables?
    It's hard to make good cables out of individual wires.

  3. #3
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Am interested in how your experiment turns out. The silver foil with oil-saturated silk covering (either 2.0 or 3.0 version) is something I would like to try as speaker cable, and have been tempted for a while... not cheap though.

    Currently using super-thin copper foil from Omega Mikro.
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    In reply to the OP's question, yep!
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  5. #5

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    In reply to the OP's question, yep!
    Hi Jim, what are your thoughts on the DCA12 vs DCA16 for the internal rewiring a non high efficiency speaker? This would be an active speaker. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoludio View Post
    Hi Jim, what are your thoughts on the DCA12 vs DCA16 for the internal rewiring a non high efficiency speaker? This would be an active speaker. Thanks.
    Never tried 12GA.


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    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  7. #7
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I've made my own IC's using Duelunds 20 ga and SE plugs. I also use their 16 ga as speaker wire. Very happy with the sound AND the cost. Don suggested I try both. For now they're staying.
    Don Sachs KT88, Don Sachs 6SN7 Line Stage, Common Sense Audio Super AlNico 15" drivers in custom cabinets by Chris Stanfill, Oppo UDP-205, Duelund 20ga ICs, Duelund 16ga speaker cable.

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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    In reply to the OP's question, yep!
    I took Jim's advice and the Duelund SC replaced my $10K Kimber cables.


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    Paul

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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I just ordered some 16 gauge wire. Has anyone cooked the wire to speed up break in? I am referring to using a cable cooker or Fry baby. Was it effective in your opinion?

  10. #10
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
    I just ordered some 16 gauge wire. Has anyone cooked the wire to speed up break in? I am referring to using a cable cooker or Fry baby. Was it effective in your opinion?
    I burned mine in on my AudioDharma cable cooker (which cost over 3 times the price of all of the Duelund cables - 4 x 10’ runs of 16 GA for my bi-wired outboard Duelund xover, plus a 1.5 meter pair of Duelund 20 GA ICs from my DAC to my ASR amp).

    IMO, they are awesome for higher efficiency speakers, not so much for medium-to-low efficiency speakers.

    So they are great for my 96 dB Tannoys.


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    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  11. #11

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    i am using the dca16ga for bi-wired speaker cables (4 conductor wires per cable) and the dca20ga for unshielded interconnects...

    i could not be happier with the sound - absolutely fantastic with my SET amp and 91db efficiency speakers. in fact, they are refered to as "the majic wire" by others in the house. they are in my system to stay.

    my experience with the burn-in was that they sounded quite nice from the start and were pretty much at their best after 20 hours or so of normal listening.

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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I ordered some from Parts Connexion. Looking forward to giving them a try. I saw discussion at another forum. The recommendation from a user was to twist the two wires with average 1.5 inches between crosses. Anyone else doing this?

  13. #13
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
    I ordered some from Parts Connexion. Looking forward to giving them a try. I saw discussion at another forum. The recommendation from a user was to twist the two wires with average 1.5 inches between crosses. Anyone else doing this?
    Lots more twist than I use, haven't tried 1.5 inches between crosses.

    Also, are you inquiring about ICs or speaker cables?
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I used zip ties.
    Don Sachs KT88, Don Sachs 6SN7 Line Stage, Common Sense Audio Super AlNico 15" drivers in custom cabinets by Chris Stanfill, Oppo UDP-205, Duelund 20ga ICs, Duelund 16ga speaker cable.

  15. #15
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    From an interference point of view, twisting pairs of wire is always good. As to the number of turns per foot (or whatever) it's not that important.
    Yes, more turns works at higher interference frequencies and closer to the interference source. But above about 4 turns per foot there are other factors and not as much interference to start with.
    So don't worry about the number of turns, just do whatever looks good.

  16. #16
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    If you cut open a scrap piece of Cat5 cable, you will see that it doesn't take a huge number of twists to work. And a Cat5 cable pair is touching 3 other high frequency interference sources.

  17. #17
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I got my order of 16 gauge wire Friday. I made up the cables with a twisted configuration. One word. Impressed. I didn't burn them in. Decided to hear the break in process. I have about 6 hours on them now. If they get any better I will be further amazed.

  18. #18

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
    I ordered some from Parts Connexion. Looking forward to giving them a try. I saw discussion at another forum. The recommendation from a user was to twist the two wires with average 1.5 inches between crosses. Anyone else doing this?
    i put one twist per foot in the speaker cables and two twists per foot in the interconnect cables. seems to be adequate as i could not be happier with results.

  19. #19
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Cable twisting is not rocket science. Anything from a few to several per foot would be OK. But for 99% of us, twisting or not twisting will make no difference. It's that 1% who have an interference problem that it helps. On the other hand, just because you don't have an interference problem today doesn't mean you won't tomorrow. Any new item that you or a nearby neighbor plugs into the wall has the potential to generate interference.

  20. #20
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I ordered the Dual DCA12GA:
    Dual DCA12GA 2x12 awg, Tin-plated, Stranded Copper, Oiled Cotton Speaker/Interconnect Cable – Black Per Meter

    I wonder if this dual configuration implies twisting may not be possible.
    Peter Lie
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  21. #21
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    I ordered the Dual DCA12GA:
    Dual DCA12GA 2x12 awg, Tin-plated, Stranded Copper, Oiled Cotton Speaker/Interconnect Cable – Black Per Meter

    I wonder if this dual configuration implies twisting may not be possible.
    That looks cool, when I ordered my Duelund 12 gauge cable awhile back, that was not available. I did a loose twist, in a braided poly sleeve + heat shrink with generic banana connectors. I obtained a set of KLEI banana connectors, but have not revised my cables yet. Still trying to decide banana vs spade.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
    That looks cool, when I ordered my Duelund 12 gauge cable awhile back, that was not available. I did a loose twist, in a braided poly sleeve + heat shrink with generic banana connectors. I obtained a set of KLEI banana connectors, but have not revised my cables yet. Still trying to decide banana vs spade.
    I have been using Duelund cables for a number of years.

    IMO, the best sound is neither spade nor bananas, but the raw 12 ga. wire, with the strands twisted together smoothly & wrapped around the terminal, which is then screwed down tightly on the cable.
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  23. #23
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I have a set I've been using DCA16 on and off for a year or so. Great tonality, but they do miss some HF extension and air that more expensive cables can provide.

    Depending on the resolution of the system, that may be or not an issue.
    Adam

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  24. #24
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Parts Connexion shipped my cable quickly.

    Answering my own question, in case anybody wants to know, the Dueland Dual version is physically not suitable for twisting. Looks neat though.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  25. #25

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Curious how this would sound compared to some of the expensive silver Audioquest, etc???


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  26. #26
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I'm a fan of Duelund cables but have not tried the silver foil hookup wire.
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by FRO View Post
    Curious how this would sound compared to some of the expensive silver Audioquest, etc???
    They are not thick enough to run them full range as speaker wires. They may work as an iternal wire for the tweeter. Which may be an interesting solution (provided they deliver) as the regular tin copper cables are not the last word in smoothness and HF air.

    If anyone is looking for a trully great sounding budget cable, I would try the Synergistic Research Foundation cables. Price performance ratio is just off the charts good.
    Adam

    Speakers: Magico M3
    Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
    Digital: Lampi Pacific + Lampi DSD Komputer
    Cables: AQ WEL Signature IC / Synergistic Research Foundation / AQ Hurricane PCs

  28. #28
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    They are not thick enough to run them full range as speaker wires. They may work as an iternal wire for the tweeter. Which may be an interesting solution (provided they deliver) as the regular tin copper cables are not the last word in smoothness and HF air.

    If anyone is looking for a trully great sounding budget cable, I would try the Synergistic Research Foundation cables. Price performance ratio is just off the charts good.
    Most of the people who have come here to my RoomPlay Reference room say that this was their best listening experience ever. Most of them have far more exotic/expensive cables than the Duelund 12 ga. cables that I have used for my speakers for the past five or six years. I also use their 16 & 20 ga. IC cables, some balanced where needed, & some unbalanced...

    I agree that there are cables that show off more extended highs, etc. I bought the Duelunds in spite of their low price. For me, they allow the music to speak to the listener more powerfully without calling attention to what I sometimes call "sound effects". For many, it's a powerful tool to unlock their music

    But this is only my personal viewpoint, not stated as some irrefutable fact, it's solely from personal experience (and no doubt - personal taste).

    Hey, if we don't enjoy our systems, whichever way our preferences lie, what good is that?

    I say ENJOY!!!
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

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  29. #29
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I tried Duelund 12awg for speaker cables bare wire on connectors, nice tone but too colored and grainy for my taste. Then combined Duelund 26awg Silver with copper DCA12GA. Sound more neutral, less grainy and colored, improved transparency ... but still maintained the nice tone and bested several high price audiophile cables.

    Duelund Wire 26awg Silver & Cotton/Oil Hook-up Wire

    Tried 2 and 3 Duelund 26awg Silver. Sounds get leaner and leaner so prefer just 1.

    Using Neutrik connectors, next built XLR interconnects with capper DCA16GA and Duelund 26awg Silver with same positive results. I used these cables for a year or so and still have them.

    I'm using Enklein David cables now but Duelund combo is excellent regardless of money.

    I was experiencing erratic sounds during break-in. I guess silver and copper breaks-in differently bur eventually smooths out.

  30. #30
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Please describe how exactly did you "combine" them - did you mean using the silver for the treble of a bi-wire speaker and copper for the bass of the bi-wire speaker? Or connect the bare wires at the terminal of a mono-wire speaker?
    Peter Lie
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  31. #31
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by knghifi View Post
    I tried Duelund 12awg for speaker cables bare wire on connectors, nice tone but too colored and grainy for my taste. Then combined Duelund 26awg Silver with copper DCA12GA. Sound more neutral, less grainy and colored, improved transparency ... but still maintained the nice tone and bested several high price audiophile cables.

    Duelund Wire 26awg Silver & Cotton/Oil Hook-up Wire

    Tried 2 and 3 Duelund 26awg Silver. Sounds get leaner and leaner so prefer just 1.

    Using Neutrik connectors, next built XLR interconnects with capper DCA16GA and Duelund 26awg Silver with same positive results. I used these cables for a year or so and still have them.

    I'm using Enklein David cables now but Duelund combo is excellent regardless of money.

    I was experiencing erratic sounds during break-in. I guess silver and copper breaks-in differently bur eventually smooths out.
    With one exception, I have always used the Duelunds with relatively high efficiency speakers, and wondered how they would do with various mid-low efficiency speakers. I have NEVER heard a trace of the sound that you experienced. Nor have my friends (Jeff Day at Positive Feedback, for example). In fact, Jeff is the one who introduced the Duelunds to many of their users, including me.

    I totally believe that you heard what you say you did, just wondering if there's some related cause (not necessarily efficiency), as many hundreds of us have never run into that issue.

    In my case, as far as system/room set-up is concerned, I don't think that is the issue.
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AudioQuest Diamond USB 5M: ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; AQ Diamond AES - 3M; AQ Diamond Ethernet - 1.5M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amp w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  32. #32
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Hey Jim - would love to hear your thoughts on this Dueland combo - "using the silver for the treble of a bi-wire speaker and copper for the bass of the bi-wire speaker"

  33. #33
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I had the DCA16GA cables in my setup and they sounded great.
    Some of my friends reported them having a brutal break in period.
    The sound being great for the first 30 - 40 hrs, then fluctuating before settling down.

    Jim's comments on the speaker efficiency is interesting and perhaps gives a clue.
    I ran them on my 91dB speakers and had no problems.
    I also second Jim's suggestion of using them bare wire when used as speaker cables.

    Alternate cable recommendation:
    Belden 8477 (12GA) and Belden 8471 (16GA)




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  34. #34
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    With one exception, I have always used the Duelunds with relatively high efficiency speakers, and wondered how they would do with various mid-low efficiency speakers. I have NEVER heard a trace of the sound that you experienced. Nor have my friends (Jeff Day at Positive Feedback, for example). In fact, Jeff is the one who introduced the Duelunds to many of their users, including me.

    I totally believe that you heard what you say you did, just wondering if there's some related cause (not necessarily efficiency), as many hundreds of us have never run into that issue.

    In my case, as far as system/room set-up is concerned, I don't think that is the issue.
    Jim,

    TAD E1 speakers, 88db @4 ohms. RRC REF250SE or CAT JL7 and Soulution 560 DAC w/leedh direct to amp.

    If not Enklein, still be satisfied with copper and silver combo.

    We all have different systems and taste so not surprised Duelund copper works for you.

  35. #35
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I was using Gotham 54025 (bi-wire cable used as mono-wire near AWG 10, about USD8.4 per meter) cable with CMC 0638-WF banana for my 89dB speakers at home. My impressions of changing to Duelund Dual DCA12GA (USD31.95 per meter) bare are:

    - More details
    - Better instrument separation
    - Perhaps tonally better and perhaps more realistic
    - For a particular music (an electronic remix of a movie soundtrack) that I found to be too harsh to listen to previously, the Duelund tamed it and makes it tolerable
    - In spite of a thinner gauge I have not noticed any drawback in any aspect
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  36. #36
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I am on AQ WEL Signature and I tried changing to Duelund. A few days later back to AQ!!

    Duelund - to me was "fine" - neutral and organic sound, but the ecstasy of getting the finer details from the AQ Wel or the second set of Nordost TYR2, missing from Duelund.
    Speakers: Tannoy Kensington GR
    Source: Auralic Aries G1, NAK MB10 CD (Modified by Fidelity UK)
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  37. #37
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    I was using Gotham 54025 (bi-wire cable used as mono-wire near AWG 10, about USD8.4 per meter) cable with CMC 0638-WF banana for my 89dB speakers at home. My impressions of changing to Duelund Dual DCA12GA (USD31.95 per meter) bare are:

    - More details
    - Better instrument separation
    - Perhaps tonally better and perhaps more realistic
    - For a particular music (an electronic remix of a movie soundtrack) that I found to be too harsh to listen to previously, the Duelund tamed it and makes it tolerable
    - In spite of a thinner gauge I have not noticed any drawback in any aspect
    Hi Peter

    Thank you for your completely unbiased opinion on cables - a place where most fear to tread - especially those making Hi Fi products.

    It is a "breath of fresh of air" to read unbiased assessment of cables - rare as "rocking horse shit" - please do not EVER stop - honesty will always win - eventually.

    Your advice on this site is greatly appreciated by everyone of us one read this thread & this from a one who does not own a Lumin product - PLEASE never stop - thanks...

  38. #38

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I am a cable-skeptic person. But after repositioning my speakers, I needed longer speakers cables. I ended up purchasing Duelund 16ga speaker wire because they are inexpensive.
    As a bonus, since several “golden ear” audiophiles speak so highly of these cables, it prevents comments from folks that claim that I should use cables that cost thousands of dollars.
    Cheap and “blessed” by the golden eared guys makes a good combination for me.

  39. #39
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I got Duelund’s after recommendation from Jim Smith. They replaced my prior set quite capably, but after a few months, I thought I wasn’t getting as much from the R-1s as I should. I bought a set of used cables (Elrod Master Statement) from a trusted source and the difference was not subtle and was well worth the $$. I do agree with everyone that the Duelund represents HUGE value for the $$ (something like $4 or $500 for a set of speaker cables), but I also agree with the many that feel that there is something to this cable thing (and one can get more out of speaker cables than Duelund offers). My used set of speaker cables with which I replaced the Duelunds was about 20x that price, but it was worth it (to me, in my system, my ears, etc., et al). I am still running Duelund interconnects with the Schroeder effect (and am scared for my wallet to try anything else).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Amplification: Accuphase A200 (2)//C3800// Phono Pre (under construction)
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    Speakers: TAD R-1 MkII, REL 212SE (2)
    Power: Nordost QBase8 Mk2 (2), QX4, Qkore1, 3 and 6, QK1 (2), QV2 (2), AddPOWR EAU2 (2)
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  40. #40
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    tinned-copper conductor wire is a subject near and dear... early on, i followed jeff day's writings and testing of the then new duelund wire. inspired by his enthusiasm for the wire, i started with the DCA16GA for speaker wire in my system and then went on to add I/Cs.

    since then i have experimented pretty extensively with tinned-copper wire. for those interested, there are quite a few dimensions to explore:

    first, there are three manufacturers of tinned-copper wire that have gained a following among audiophiles: belden, duelund and western electric.

    next ,there is obviously the gauge / AWG of the wire.

    in my system and to my ears, i find the western electric wire to have a little more air and be a bit more dynamc than the duelund. also for SC, i find the 12 awg to be richer and more textured than the 16 awg wire which is a bit leaner but with slightly cleaner highs.

    similarly, i like the 20 awg wire for I/Cs over the 16 awg wire which seems to balance the 12 awg SC.

    so, there is plenty of opportunity to tailor the sound of tinned-copper wire audio cabling to one's system and listening preferences.

    i can see why those who prefer silver wire conductors in their system might not find tinned-copper wire to their liking... for the rest of us, tinned-copper wire offers an unbelievable value proposition with a price/performance ratio that is crazy off the charts.

    enjoy!! ...and, use the cash you save on cabling for other new gear.

    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | alp-tone audio analog cables
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  41. #41
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

    Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  42. #42

    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Speaking to lower efficiency, I have Harbeth 40.2 speakers, which are only 86db sensitivity... Is this to low to even try Duelund wire as speaker cables?? (Jim?)

    I’ve used 16ga w/ KLEI Absolute Harmony connectors as ICs off and on. I love the textural and musical nature of them, but the soundstage does shrink in size (width and height) (but gains in depth) compared to other copper cables on hand.

  43. #43
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    I don't see any concern for 12 AWG - it's already thicker than some particular models of branded audiophile speaker cables.

    Someone even tried double running it to get effective 9 AWG with positive things to say.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  44. #44
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

    Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)
    Yes the current needed to get the speakers working at the volume desired should influence the thickness of the speaker cable (thicker cable if powerful amp needed), but perhaps so should the impedence of the speaker. In a 4 ohm system, the resistance of a given cable is proportionately much less than if the speaker is 18 ohms.

    Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  45. #45
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Yes, it's about the impedance of the loudspeaker and the end-to-end resistance of the cable. (with respect to each other) Long cables and 4 Ohm speakers need to be much, much thicker than short cables and 16 Ohm speakers.
    Any reasonable speaker cable is more than thick enough to carry the current from the largest hi-fi amplifiers.

  46. #46
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?
    Yes, agree.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  47. #47
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?
    Apart from the electrical characteristics, the 12 AWG will offer lower LF extension.
    The 16 AWG cable seems to attenuate the LF giving the impression of a more precise/fast sound.

    Regards


    .
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  48. #48
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.

    To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):


    It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  49. #49
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current.

    To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):


    It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.
    Thanks, but with Avantgarde speakers the bass is active so the speaker cables feed only the bass amp and the upper horns. I'm happy with 16 gauge I think.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  50. #50
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    Re: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.
    This is correct. The thicker gauge allows for higher current.
    In terms of sound, the impression one gets is weightier/meatier sound.

    .
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    Win10 Transport + Fidelizer 8.7 + JRMC 27 & HQPlayer | Mutec MC-3+ USB | Job INT | Western Electric 12GA | Green Mountain Audio Eos HX

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