Thread: Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

Am interested in how your experiment turns out. The silver foil with oil-saturated silk covering (either 2.0 or 3.0 version) is something I would like to try as speaker cable, and have been tempted for a while... not cheap though.

Currently using super-thin copper foil from Omega Mikro.

In reply to the OP's question, yep!

Originally Posted by nicoludio

Hi Jim, what are your thoughts on the DCA12 vs DCA16 for the internal rewiring a non high efficiency speaker? This would be an active speaker. Thanks.

Never tried 12GA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've made my own IC's using Duelunds 20 ga and SE plugs. I also use their 16 ga as speaker wire. Very happy with the sound AND the cost. Don suggested I try both. For now they're staying.

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

In reply to the OP's question, yep!

I took Jim's advice and the Duelund SC replaced my $10K Kimber cables.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Mike B.

I just ordered some 16 gauge wire. Has anyone cooked the wire to speed up break in? I am referring to using a cable cooker or Fry baby. Was it effective in your opinion?

I burned mine in on my AudioDharma cable cooker (which cost over 3 times the price of all of the Duelund cables - 4 x 10’ runs of 16 GA for my bi-wired outboard Duelund xover, plus a 1.5 meter pair of Duelund 20 GA ICs from my DAC to my ASR amp).

IMO, they are awesome for higher efficiency speakers, not so much for medium-to-low efficiency speakers.

So they are great for my 96 dB Tannoys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Mike B.

I ordered some from Parts Connexion. Looking forward to giving them a try. I saw discussion at another forum. The recommendation from a user was to twist the two wires with average 1.5 inches between crosses. Anyone else doing this?

Lots more twist than I use, haven't tried 1.5 inches between crosses.

Also, are you inquiring about ICs or speaker cables?

I used zip ties.

I ordered the Dual DCA12GA:
Dual DCA12GA 2x12 awg, Tin-plated, Stranded Copper, Oiled Cotton Speaker/Interconnect Cable – Black Per Meter

I wonder if this dual configuration implies twisting may not be possible.

Originally Posted by wklie

I ordered the Dual DCA12GA:
Dual DCA12GA 2x12 awg, Tin-plated, Stranded Copper, Oiled Cotton Speaker/Interconnect Cable – Black Per Meter

I wonder if this dual configuration implies twisting may not be possible.

That looks cool, when I ordered my Duelund 12 gauge cable awhile back, that was not available. I did a loose twist, in a braided poly sleeve + heat shrink with generic banana connectors. I obtained a set of KLEI banana connectors, but have not revised my cables yet. Still trying to decide banana vs spade.

Originally Posted by Bones13

That looks cool, when I ordered my Duelund 12 gauge cable awhile back, that was not available. I did a loose twist, in a braided poly sleeve + heat shrink with generic banana connectors. I obtained a set of KLEI banana connectors, but have not revised my cables yet. Still trying to decide banana vs spade.

I have been using Duelund cables for a number of years.

IMO, the best sound is neither spade nor bananas, but the raw 12 ga. wire, with the strands twisted together smoothly & wrapped around the terminal, which is then screwed down tightly on the cable.

I have a set I've been using DCA16 on and off for a year or so. Great tonality, but they do miss some HF extension and air that more expensive cables can provide.

Depending on the resolution of the system, that may be or not an issue.

Parts Connexion shipped my cable quickly.

Answering my own question, in case anybody wants to know, the Dueland Dual version is physically not suitable for twisting. Looks neat though.

I'm a fan of Duelund cables but have not tried the silver foil hookup wire.

Originally Posted by FRO

Curious how this would sound compared to some of the expensive silver Audioquest, etc???

They are not thick enough to run them full range as speaker wires. They may work as an iternal wire for the tweeter. Which may be an interesting solution (provided they deliver) as the regular tin copper cables are not the last word in smoothness and HF air.

If anyone is looking for a trully great sounding budget cable, I would try the Synergistic Research Foundation cables. Price performance ratio is just off the charts good.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

They are not thick enough to run them full range as speaker wires. They may work as an iternal wire for the tweeter. Which may be an interesting solution (provided they deliver) as the regular tin copper cables are not the last word in smoothness and HF air.

If anyone is looking for a trully great sounding budget cable, I would try the Synergistic Research Foundation cables. Price performance ratio is just off the charts good.

Most of the people who have come here to my RoomPlay Reference room say that this was their best listening experience ever. Most of them have far more exotic/expensive cables than the Duelund 12 ga. cables that I have used for my speakers for the past five or six years. I also use their 16 & 20 ga. IC cables, some balanced where needed, & some unbalanced...

I agree that there are cables that show off more extended highs, etc. I bought the Duelunds in spite of their low price. For me, they allow the music to speak to the listener more powerfully without calling attention to what I sometimes call "sound effects". For many, it's a powerful tool to unlock their music

But this is only my personal viewpoint, not stated as some irrefutable fact, it's solely from personal experience (and no doubt - personal taste).

Hey, if we don't enjoy our systems, whichever way our preferences lie, what good is that?

I say ENJOY!!!

Please describe how exactly did you "combine" them - did you mean using the silver for the treble of a bi-wire speaker and copper for the bass of the bi-wire speaker? Or connect the bare wires at the terminal of a mono-wire speaker?

Originally Posted by knghifi

I tried Duelund 12awg for speaker cables bare wire on connectors, nice tone but too colored and grainy for my taste. Then combined Duelund 26awg Silver with copper DCA12GA. Sound more neutral, less grainy and colored, improved transparency ... but still maintained the nice tone and bested several high price audiophile cables.

Duelund Wire 26awg Silver & Cotton/Oil Hook-up Wire

Tried 2 and 3 Duelund 26awg Silver. Sounds get leaner and leaner so prefer just 1.

Using Neutrik connectors, next built XLR interconnects with capper DCA16GA and Duelund 26awg Silver with same positive results. I used these cables for a year or so and still have them.

I'm using Enklein David cables now but Duelund combo is excellent regardless of money.

I was experiencing erratic sounds during break-in. I guess silver and copper breaks-in differently bur eventually smooths out.

With one exception, I have always used the Duelunds with relatively high efficiency speakers, and wondered how they would do with various mid-low efficiency speakers. I have NEVER heard a trace of the sound that you experienced. Nor have my friends (Jeff Day at Positive Feedback, for example). In fact, Jeff is the one who introduced the Duelunds to many of their users, including me.

I totally believe that you heard what you say you did, just wondering if there's some related cause (not necessarily efficiency), as many hundreds of us have never run into that issue.

In my case, as far as system/room set-up is concerned, I don't think that is the issue.

I had the DCA16GA cables in my setup and they sounded great.
Some of my friends reported them having a brutal break in period.
The sound being great for the first 30 - 40 hrs, then fluctuating before settling down.

Jim's comments on the speaker efficiency is interesting and perhaps gives a clue.
I ran them on my 91dB speakers and had no problems.
I also second Jim's suggestion of using them bare wire when used as speaker cables.

Alternate cable recommendation:
Belden 8477 (12GA) and Belden 8471 (16GA)




.

I was using Gotham 54025 (bi-wire cable used as mono-wire near AWG 10, about USD8.4 per meter) cable with CMC 0638-WF banana for my 89dB speakers at home. My impressions of changing to Duelund Dual DCA12GA (USD31.95 per meter) bare are:

- More details
- Better instrument separation
- Perhaps tonally better and perhaps more realistic
- For a particular music (an electronic remix of a movie soundtrack) that I found to be too harsh to listen to previously, the Duelund tamed it and makes it tolerable
- In spite of a thinner gauge I have not noticed any drawback in any aspect

I am on AQ WEL Signature and I tried changing to Duelund. A few days later back to AQ!!

Duelund - to me was "fine" - neutral and organic sound, but the ecstasy of getting the finer details from the AQ Wel or the second set of Nordost TYR2, missing from Duelund.

I got Duelund’s after recommendation from Jim Smith. They replaced my prior set quite capably, but after a few months, I thought I wasn’t getting as much from the R-1s as I should. I bought a set of used cables (Elrod Master Statement) from a trusted source and the difference was not subtle and was well worth the $$. I do agree with everyone that the Duelund represents HUGE value for the $$ (something like $4 or $500 for a set of speaker cables), but I also agree with the many that feel that there is something to this cable thing (and one can get more out of speaker cables than Duelund offers). My used set of speaker cables with which I replaced the Duelunds was about 20x that price, but it was worth it (to me, in my system, my ears, etc., et al). I am still running Duelund interconnects with the Schroeder effect (and am scared for my wallet to try anything else).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

tinned-copper conductor wire is a subject near and dear... early on, i followed jeff day's writings and testing of the then new duelund wire. inspired by his enthusiasm for the wire, i started with the DCA16GA for speaker wire in my system and then went on to add I/Cs.

since then i have experimented pretty extensively with tinned-copper wire. for those interested, there are quite a few dimensions to explore:

first, there are three manufacturers of tinned-copper wire that have gained a following among audiophiles: belden, duelund and western electric.

next ,there is obviously the gauge / AWG of the wire.

in my system and to my ears, i find the western electric wire to have a little more air and be a bit more dynamc than the duelund. also for SC, i find the 12 awg to be richer and more textured than the 16 awg wire which is a bit leaner but with slightly cleaner highs.

similarly, i like the 20 awg wire for I/Cs over the 16 awg wire which seems to balance the 12 awg SC.

so, there is plenty of opportunity to tailor the sound of tinned-copper wire audio cabling to one's system and listening preferences.

i can see why those who prefer silver wire conductors in their system might not find tinned-copper wire to their liking... for the rest of us, tinned-copper wire offers an unbelievable value proposition with a price/performance ratio that is crazy off the charts.

enjoy!! ...and, use the cash you save on cabling for other new gear.

Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)

I don't see any concern for 12 AWG - it's already thicker than some particular models of branded audiophile speaker cables.

Someone even tried double running it to get effective 9 AWG with positive things to say.

Originally Posted by wklie

Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)

Yes the current needed to get the speakers working at the volume desired should influence the thickness of the speaker cable (thicker cable if powerful amp needed), but perhaps so should the impedence of the speaker. In a 4 ohm system, the resistance of a given cable is proportionately much less than if the speaker is 18 ohms.

Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?

Yes, agree.

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?

Apart from the electrical characteristics, the 12 AWG will offer lower LF extension.
The 16 AWG cable seems to attenuate the LF giving the impression of a more precise/fast sound.

Regards


.

One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.

To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):


It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.

Originally Posted by wklie

One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current.

To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):


It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.

Thanks, but with Avantgarde speakers the bass is active so the speaker cables feed only the bass amp and the upper horns. I'm happy with 16 gauge I think.

Originally Posted by wklie

One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.

This is correct. The thicker gauge allows for higher current.
In terms of sound, the impression one gets is weightier/meatier sound.

.