Axpona 2017 Best Of

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 03:00 PM

Best speaker under $20,000:

Avantgarde Zero TA XD

Best speaker under $100,000:

MBL

Best speaker over $100,000:

Von Schweikert

Best Tube Amp:

VAC Statement 450iQ monos

Best Solid State Amp:
Pass (heard some INT-60's and INT-250's)
The new Audia Flight and Esoteric Grandioso (tie for second)
Honorable mention to Bricasti and Tidal and Gamut.

Best DAC under $10,000:

AMR 777SE (new model coming. Does not do DSD)

Best DAC over $10,000:

Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC2 (lots of these were in use!)

Best Super DAC ($100k range):

MSB Select DAC II

Best Turntable over $40,000:

Kronos Pro

Best Turntable under $40,000:

VPI Avenger Ref

Biggest disappointment:

B&O Speaker

Best Room under $100,000:

Joseph Audio with Rowland

Best Room over $200,000:

VAC with Von Schweikert statement speakers (tie with)
MBL with MBL electronics

A terrific show! So many rooms and so much equipment. It was huge! Most importantly LOTS of people and great times!!

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**Kuoppis** · April 23, 2017, 03:11 PM

Thanks again Mike, great list!

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**a.wayne** · April 23, 2017, 03:32 PM

Great list Mike , So " your " best sound of show , regardless of price is VSA and MBL ..... ?

**jdandy** · April 23, 2017, 03:37 PM

Mike........Many thanks for the Axpona 2017 photo show. The dinner photos were cool, too. I felt the excitement and fun. It is quite an effort to snap so many photos of the different rooms and systems and get them posted to this forum. That effort is appreciated by me and I'm certain everyone else who could not attend. Kudos for a great job.

**Dizzie** · April 23, 2017, 04:38 PM

Mike, (or anyone). What were the speakers and other components with the Audia Flight amps?

**Melbguy1** · April 23, 2017, 04:56 PM

As simply an audiophile with no commercial affiliations in this game, I can say my "best of" list would have likely been much different..

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

As simply an audiophile with no commercial affiliations in this game, I can say my "best of" list would have likely been much different..

You weren't there. How do you know for sure? The rooms/setup played a huge role. Watching the guys on the VAC/Von Schweikert room work until all hours of the night moving those gigantic speakers, tuning them using the adjustments on the back, moving room treatments and seating around was something. They were also blessed with a nice big room.

Geez, I thought my list was very fair and unbiased. There were a lot of great rooms. But the ones that stood out to me are listed above.

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**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Great list Mike , So " your " best sound of show , regardless of price is VSA and MBL ..... ?

Yes. They just happened to be mega buck systems too.

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**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by jdandy

Mike........Many thanks for the Axpona 2017 photo show. The dinner photos were cool, too. I felt the excitement and fun. It is quite an effort to snap so many photos of the different rooms and systems and get them posted to this forum. That effort is appreciated by me and I'm certain everyone else who could not attend. Kudos for a great job.

Thanks Dan. It's a labor of love. We all had a wonderful time.

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**Alpinist** · April 23, 2017, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

As simply an audiophile with no commercial affiliations in this game, I can say my "best of" list would have likely been much different..

No doubt, everyone has their personal favorites. But you really need to hear the rooms for yourself before you make a judgement. A lot of systems with great components were not worthy of Best in show due to less than optimal setups.

Ken

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Mike, (or anyone). What were the speakers and other components with the Audia Flight amps?

Verity.

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**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

No doubt, everyone has their personal favorites. But you really need to hear the rooms for yourself before you make a judgement. A lot of systems with great components were not worthy of Best in show due to less than optimal setups.

Ken

Well said and also "less than desirable" pairings. Too much Ying and not enough Yang.

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**Alpinist** · April 23, 2017, 05:16 PM

I spent a lot of time in the MSB/YG and ARC/Sonus Fabre rooms on Sunday Morning and these rooms really delivered today. I got the opportunity to sit in the MSB/YG room for over an hour this morning and spin all of my favorite discs. The MSB Select DAC was performing on a level the likes of which I've never heard before. Unprecedented transparency and tonality that redefined for me what digital audio is capable of. To sum it up, I want one of those!

Ken

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:18 PM

Guys - keep in mind, it's just a show. Nobody is calling anyone's baby ugly. Hostile conditions. Limited setup time. Often unfamiliar components and cables. Terrible dirty power.

It's a show. Period. As my friend said, "if it sounds great, good! If it sounds poor, move on, it's a show!"

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**Alpinist** · April 23, 2017, 05:26 PM

A couple of honorable mentions for me were the new Bergmann air bearing TT and the Aqua La Scala DAC. The TIdal room was my favorite uber expensive room. The MBL room really kicked ass today, much better than Saturday even. They played several more delicate songs at a reasonable volume level that sounded wonderful.

Best,
Ken

**asiufy** · April 23, 2017, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I spent a lot of time in the MSB/YG and ARC/Sonus Fabre rooms on Sunday Morning and these rooms really delivered today. I got the opportunity to sit in the MSB/YG room for over an hour this morning and spin all of my favorite discs. The MSB Select DAC was performing on a level the likes of which I've never heard before. Unprecedented transparency and tonality that redefined for me what digital audio is capable of. To sum it up, I want one of those!��

Ken

Ken,

I'm glad you could experience a bit of the SELECT magic

But hear me, the SELECT is nothing without the partnering gear. We've taken it to systems where the magic simply was not there, most likely because something else in the chain was not up to scratch. Vince/MSB is actually very particular with what he shows with, because he knows the SELECT need the proper "enviroment" to shine.
And these new MSB monos do just that, as well as the YGs, that he's been using for a while now!

cheers,
Alex

**Melbguy1** · April 23, 2017, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You weren't there. How do you know for sure? The rooms/setup played a huge role. Watching the guys on the VAC/Von Schweikert room work until all hours of the night moving those gigantic speakers, tuning them using the adjustments on the back, moving room treatments and seating around was something. They were also blessed with a nice big room.

Geez, I thought my list was very fair and unbiased. There were a lot of great rooms. But the ones that stood out to me are listed above.

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Mike and Ken, you've assumed I disagree with all your votes. You're right I wasn't there. Hence I added the qualifier "would have likely been much different", not "would have been much different". Spot the difference? Point of information, I agree with some of your votes/comments. For example;

- Best Tube Amp: VAC Statement 450iQ monos
- Best DAC over $10,000: Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC2 (lots of these were in use!) (*Noting Vitus Audio were not at the show)
- Best Solid State Amp: The new Audia Flight and Esoteric Grandioso (tie for second)
- Best Turntable over $40,000: Kronos Pro
- Biggest disappointment: B&O Speaker
- Best Room under $100,000: Joseph Audio with Rowland

Just my 2c...if that's ok?

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

Mike, you've assumed I disagree with all your votes. You're right I wasn't there. Hence I added the qualifier "would have likely been much differ ent", not "would have been much different". Point of information, I agree with some of your votes/comments. For example;

- Best Tube Amp: VAC Statement 450iQ monos
- Best DAC over $10,000: Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC2 (lots of these were in use!) (*Noting Vitus Audio were not at the show)
- Best Solid State Amp: The new Audia Flight and Esoteric Grandioso (tie for second)
- Best Turntable over $40,000: Kronos Pro
- Biggest disappointment: B&O Speaker
- Best Room under $100,000: Joseph Audio with Rowland

Just my 2c...if that's ok?

It's all good. I'm interested to hear from others on their thoughts of different rooms.

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**kzhtoo** · April 23, 2017, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Verity.

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What is the retail on Audia Flight FLS4?
Thanks for the pic show, BTW. It's awesome!

**bthomas9** · April 23, 2017, 06:00 PM

Joseph Audio was a real eye opener. Jeff said it was the most full his room had been at 5:30 on a Saturday night at any Axpona ever. He was smiling ear to ear because we all were smiling and sitting there in disbelief at the amazing sound those "little" Perspective were putting out. Ian and his wife were there with me and had nothing but praise either. R2R a HUGE Jeff Roland integrated, Doshi Tape pre, and his Perspectives. It was a stunner!

He was out of brochures for them by noon on Saturday...

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**a.wayne** · April 23, 2017, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

You weren't there. How do you know for sure? The rooms/setup played a huge role. Watching the guys on the VAC/Von Schweikert room work until all hours of the night moving those gigantic speakers, tuning them using the adjustments on the back, moving room treatments and seating around was something. They were also blessed with a nice big room.

Geez, I thought my list was very fair and unbiased. There were a lot of great rooms. But the ones that stood out to me are listed above.

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I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....

$75k seems a little high, but there were a boat load of ASC tube traps. Not sure about the out of phase bit. Their speakers have bass adjustability in the back - I believe.

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**Alpinist** · April 23, 2017, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....

It was a forest of Tube Traps in that room but their efforts were rewarded by some really fine sound. The VAC linestage, phonostage and monoblocks really shined in that system.

Ken

**a.wayne** · April 23, 2017, 06:34 PM

Heard the Vac's at Mike , i was impressed , their best effort todate .....

**kzhtoo** · April 23, 2017, 07:36 PM

Any impression to share on Magico S3 mk2?

**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 08:13 PM

They sounded pretty good but definitely not good enough for a best of . . . . .

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Any impression to share on Magico S3 mk2?

**bthomas9** · April 23, 2017, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

They sounded pretty good but definitely not good enough for a best of . . . . .

I'll agree they they didn't sound the best of, especially Friday. The bass was bloated and flabby. They tweaked positioning Friday night and Saturday was so much better. I was in there at the same time as Fremer and he played 1 track, vinyl of course, from three different albums and said he would have liked to stayed and play more. Toe swinging most of the time. So, to say it wasn't best of...I'll agree, but it was still VERY good imo

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**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 08:34 PM

Probably not that many. But even if there were . . . so?

Anybody spending that much money on a system is probably be spending about that much on the room they are going to be in. And they take weeks/months/years running their system, not 2 hours. Anybody that writes off a manufacturer because a show room didn't sound as good as it could is CRAZY and frankly clueless of the reality of show conditions.

After 40+ years of going to audio shows - all you can do is say how a certain system in a particular room sounds. That's all.

On the real ugly side of a show and some manufacturers, there seems to always be at every show some "deception" by a manufacturer or two playing equipment that is not disclosed. It's scary what is behind the curtain in some of these rooms. All you can do is look at product and talk to the manufacture's rep. It gives you an idea if they are manufacture you want to do business with so you can do a proper demo.

Originally Posted by a.wayne

I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....

**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 08:41 PM

I really really liked the room with the "Destination Audio" $95,000 horns in it. I think that's probably my best room - price no object.

I'd probably give the Cambridge Audio room for best sound on a budget.

As far as individual components - no clue because it's a system/room and without taking a component out and putting another one in which is impossible under these conditions - no way to tell what it's doing.

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

I really really liked the room with the "Destination Audio" $95,000 horns in it. I think that's probably my best room - price no object.

I'd probably give the Cambridge Audio room for best sound on a budget.

As far as individual components - no clue because it's a system/room and without taking a component out and putting another one in which is impossible under these conditions - no way to tell what it's doing.

The destination horns were great. Don't agree on the individual components. An Avenger will outperform a REGA RP1 all day.

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**La Dolce Vita** · April 23, 2017, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

The destination horns were great. Don't agree on the individual components. An Avenger will outperform a REGA RP1 all day.

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Depends on what you mean by outperform. A $10K or $20K table should (hopefully) outperform a $500 table. But... when you say outperform what are the metrics you are using? Perhaps price/performance ratio for example? This could change things. Also which cartridges are being used on each? All this comes into play I feel... not to mention phono stage pairings etc...

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**Alpinist** · April 23, 2017, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

They sounded pretty good but definitely not good enough for a best of . . . . .

They seemed to get better every day but the room/setup wasn't a standout sonically in my opinion. It did sound very good though.

Ken

**Ritmo** · April 23, 2017, 09:06 PM

It was a very good event. Lots of rooms, equipment and good/diverse crowd. Lots of good music for sale - bought quite a bit!

Below are my impressions:

- Best Rooms: MBL and Wilson Alexx/DAG Pre, Phono, Bridged M400s 4(!)/DCS/Transparent

- Enjoyable/Potential: Zesto/Marten, ELAC, ARC/Sonus, Avangarte, Spatial/Lampi, Esoteric/Canton altho a bit too bright at times (grandioso clock makes a huge difference), Vivid G1 has potential but the room did not help, Doshi/Wilson, Tidal/Bricasti, Constellation/ML (although room was too small), Joseph/Rowland

Revel Salon 2s are still making these shows. Kevin V was playing them with the new ML gear. Depending on the music, they sounded great or just good. Incredible they are still this competitive after 10+ years!

Lots of VPI, Aurender, Berkeley frond ends.

Marketplace had a lot of great music. I purchased a lot of vinyl.

Did not make it to the personal audio area.

Lastly, great catching up with friends and meeting people.

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 09:10 PM

I'm not going to argue, I'm too tired. Through thousands of rooms and listening over 40 years I can get a good idea of what is doing what - especially when they change something out from previous years or like when I hear a product I know very well and hear what the amps are doing or the source. Have I been wrong? Of course. But usually I get a pretty good idea of what is doing what.

You want examples? I was the FIRST to rave about the Kronos and did so for years before anyone caught on. I remember posting on another site and getting razzed about how it was a gimmick and it would never put perform an SME, Avid or turntable of the day. I stuck to my guns. And now where's Kronos? Considered one of the best. I don't recall people saying "oh Mike, it could have been the speakers or amps". The superiority of the Kronos shined through.

I was the first to talk about how great the Chord DAVE sounded after hearing it at CES's debut. It was several months before anyone else noticed.

What about the Lumin? They weren't in business 9 months before I was the first to talk about how great it was (despite the poo-pooers from the Linn fans).

You learn characteristics of equipment and with experience you get a pretty good idea of what is doing what (you're not always right, but there is no substitute for experience).

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**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

They seemed to get better every day but the room/setup wasn't a standout sonically in my opinion.

Ken

I'm biting my tongue on this one. Let's just say it wasn't the speakers holding things back. The sound was very different when the TT and digital was played vs an old Sony R2R. I have some experience with old R2R's and trust me, they can sound pretty awful. A trip to John French, 6 months and a few dollars fixes that. With old R2R's, caps start to leak, electronics start to go, etc.

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**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 09:33 PM

Yes

But being devils advocate, you don't know how that Avenger is set up and the same about the Rega, if mister thumbs sets up the avenger - maybe a properly rega does sound better. Maybe a guy thats attending touching stuff screws it up mid day. You just don't know.

Or a tube goes out in the pre amp and all of a sudden there is no center - but the people running the room never have a chance to listen until the end of the day. Nobodies fault - but it happens in show conditions.

Originally Posted by Mike

The destination horns were great. Don't agree on the individual components. An Avenger will outperform a REGA RP1 all day.

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**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 09:36 PM

All true, and Aliens could invade, but we are left to judge the BEST OF, not the worst of - especially if someone f'ed with it. So if someone messed with it and it sounds bad, it's not in the best of list. So it's irrelevant. Mat set up the Avengers for the show. I presume he knows what he's doing.

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**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 09:44 PM

You absolutely get tendencies.

If every room you hear ABC amps it sounds great. Then they are probably pretty good. And the opposite is true too, if every room you hear ABC amps and it's awful then ya have a pretty good idea there too.

Also, when you have heard various products in your own room and are intimately familiar with, then you pretty much know what they are adding/subtracting from a particular system. So if you know everything in the room intimately except one item - then it's just how well they play together. Oh and then the room . . . . .

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 09:48 PM

Yes all true. Although I don't advise others to do this, I have purchased items based on show experiences alone. Rare, but I have.

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**the professor** · April 23, 2017, 09:55 PM

We both have bought things with no listening experience at all. Not the best way to purchase stuff for sure. But . . . . never said I was smart.

Like i say - I'm just being devils advocate. I certainly have my opinions after the few hundred shows I've gone to. But I really don't know - just educated guesses on how things will sound.

**Dizzie** · April 23, 2017, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Verity.

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Thanks Mike. Is the Audia Flight FLS4 the new integrated?

**Mike** · April 23, 2017, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Thanks Mike. Is the Audia Flight FLS4 the new integrated?

It was their new amp.

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**vpiindustries** · April 24, 2017, 12:03 AM

It was great meeting you all and I'm glad I finally have this damn app working so I can respond more!

-MW

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**Melbguy1** · April 24, 2017, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

It's all good. I'm interested to hear from others on their thoughts of different rooms.

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I'll abstain from further comment then...

**Alpinist** · April 24, 2017, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by asiufy

Ken,

I'm glad you could experience a bit of the SELECT magic

But hear me, the SELECT is nothing without the partnering gear. We've taken it to systems where the magic simply was not there, most likely because something else in the chain was not up to scratch. Vince/MSB is actually very particular with what he shows with, because he knows the SELECT need the proper "enviroment" to shine.
And these new MSB monos do just that, as well as the YGs, that he's been using for a while now!

cheers,
Alex

Thanks Alex for pointing that out. I felt a big part of the MSB Select DAC's magic was the wonderful synergy between it and the MSB 200 watt Class A mono amps that it was directly connected to with no preamp in the chain. These mono amps sounded tremendously good. Easy to forget that fact when the gorgeous MSB Select DAC is standing front and center.

Best,
Ken

**bonzo** · April 24, 2017, 03:58 AM

I think at a show if something consistenly sounds great it probably is, but if it sounds awful it means nothing. I have experienced stuff sounding awful at shows that sounded great when you heard them separately.

**Mike** · April 24, 2017, 06:41 AM

I would like to thank all the manufacturers who participated in Axpona. I saw the amount of hard work and effort that you put into every show. The setup, the show days and then the taking down of the room, packing up and shipping back. Many make long drives instead of flying too. To all those, thank you! Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

**Jazzhead** · April 24, 2017, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Melbguy1

I'll abstain from further comment then...

Just as well , don't want to risk being banned again !

No mention of the Lampi in the VSA room ?

**Mike** · April 24, 2017, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzhead

Just as well , don't want to risk being banned again !

No mention of the Lampi in the VSA room ?

I don't get it. The guy who wasn't there to hear the rooms would have had other picks? Ok...whatever...pick away.

Don't forget to pick the Rockports. The Gryphon too. Boulder as well.

**Melbguy1** · April 24, 2017, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzhead

Just as well , don't want to risk being banned again !

You think I'm at risk of being banned? For what? Why would you make such a comment?

Thread: Axpona 2017 Best Of