Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

**joeinid** · December 12, 2015, 11:27 PM

Any recommendations for amps with great Avantgarde synergy?

**Mike** · December 12, 2015, 11:33 PM

I haven't a clue.

Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

Air Tight
Lamm
Triode Corp of Japan
Cary 211 FE's
Pass

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**joeinid** · December 13, 2015, 12:14 AM

I absolutely fell in love with the Whammerdyne Truth 2A3 amp at the New York Audio show in the Rye Hilton. It was superb on the big open baffle Bastanis MANDALA speakers. I suspect it will be perfect on a pair of Uno XD's that I'm thinking about.

**Paul** · December 13, 2015, 12:40 AM

Don't forget the Viva audio boys

**matt_zak** · December 13, 2015, 09:26 AM

The first time I ever heard Avantgarde they were used with BAT gear. Sounded excellent. I'm not sure on models. It was about 12 years ago. It left a great impression and I still remember how much I liked it.

**asiufy** · December 13, 2015, 11:15 AM

I'm pretty sure Jim Smith would know more about good pairings

So far, I've tried them with Audiopax amps, the 25W Model 88 as well as the new 50W Maggiore 50. Amazing with both.

The only SS amp I've tried was the darTZeel LHC-208 integrated amp, at 200W, and it was downright incredible. Very open, with lots of detail and dynamics.

**MDP** · December 13, 2015, 12:56 PM

When I was at Mike's place, the Airtight were fantastic!!

**Garth** · December 13, 2015, 01:20 PM

Whammerdyne sounds like a comic book villain not a 4.2 watt SE audio amp. Cool looking amp never heard of them what is the cost not cheap I am thinking.

Watched the Vid seems like a well made unit how many are sold a year the made in USA gives you some hope of support.

Small companies are one heart beat away from no customer support and big companies are one employee away from being tried of listening to customers crap to get any help.

I liked the cut outs on the case makes it far easier to move. The meters well some like them some do not, they at least have a purpose if they did not I quess they would be blue. A cheap shot at the apple dumpling gang. Meters are cool if you like the look if not solid blocks of metal carved up and out like turkey is another option.

As I said cool amp hope I get to hear one some day. The above post who said ask Jim Smith that would be my call.

**dlb2** · December 13, 2015, 04:10 PM

How about a Line Magnetic LM-219ia?

**nicoludio** · December 13, 2015, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by dlb2

How about a Line Magnetic LM-219ia?

I am curious as to how it would compete with the Air Tight ATM300 on the Avantgardes?

**Mike** · December 13, 2015, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by nfnc

I am curious as to how it would compete with the Air Tight ATM300 on the Avantgardes?

Avantgarde Corporate has the Air Tight ATM300 as one of their demo amps. When I had it in the system, it was fantastic.

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**MDP** · December 14, 2015, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Avantgarde Corporate has the Air Tight ATM300 as one of their demo amps. When I had it in the system, it was fantastic.

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Yes it was

**sonnyv727** · December 15, 2015, 02:33 AM

Love avantgarde with airtight atm 3..that sound still stuck in my head even after over a month listen at Mike place.

**Family progtitioner** · December 15, 2015, 11:33 AM

Mike, have you tried the Triode Corp TRV-P845SE or similar with Avantgarde? Thanks.

**Mike** · December 15, 2015, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Family progtitioner

Mike, have you tried the Triode Corp TRV-P845SE or similar with Avantgarde? Thanks.

Yes. I have the Triode Corp TRX-M300's.

**dlb2** · December 15, 2015, 01:32 PM

Joe, I know they seem like overkill but I bet your CJ gear will be amazing with Avant-gardes.

**joeinid** · December 15, 2015, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by dlb2

Joe, I know they seem like overkill but I bet your CJ gear will be amazing with Avant-gardes.

Sound quality yes, noise floor might be a little high.

**Jerry Seh** · December 23, 2015, 08:48 PM

As you know, I had the Mezzo with AV X Pre/Power as I do believe they were voiced as one.

Of course, I have heard them partner ATE2001 Phono/Pre & ATM211. This is a better combo if one had the PC1 Supreme where the ATE2001 clearly best match. Have heard other amps, like Leben etc, ... but if tubes are what you are going for Joe/Mike, this AT combo is simply superb. Not cheap but worth every cent.

I chose the X Pre/Power for the simple reason they are from the same company and designer and can't be wrong in the "voicing". Hope the info is of help.

Cheers and Merry Xmas everyone.

**Willco** · April 18, 2018, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Seh

As you know, I had the Mezzo with AV X Pre/Power as I do believe they were voiced as one.

Of course, I have heard them partner ATE2001 Phono/Pre & ATM211. This is a better combo if one had the PC1 Supreme where the ATE2001 clearly best match. Have heard other amps, like Leben etc, ... but if tubes are what you are going for Joe/Mike, this AT combo is simply superb. Not cheap but worth every cent.

I chose the X Pre/Power for the simple reason they are from the same company and designer and can't be wrong in the "voicing". Hope the info is of help.

Cheers and Merry Xmas everyone.

Jerry, I'm considering the AG amps to replace my Mastersound 845. I'm not sure I want to stick with a tube amp for a variety of reasons. Can you elaborate on a comparison of the x pre/ power or of the XA integrated in comparison to good tube amps?

**Jim Smith** · April 18, 2018, 02:41 PM

IMO, great tube electronics are noticeably more musically involving with any Avantgardes, of any age.

That's not to say that using SS electronics won't be very satisfying - especially if you never hear great tube gear with them.

**Willco** · April 19, 2018, 12:21 AM

Jim, are there any that stand out as a good pairing with AG?

My goal is to preserve the speaker's great qualities, such as the lifelike dynamics which is pure sonic bliss with the right recordings -- but to tame the sometimes peakiness and (shoutyness?) in the upper mid range that is a particular problem on the majority of not so great recordings. These are unforgiving speakers.

If there were a solid state solution, that would be my ideal, but that may be a dream...

A few that have caught my attention:

Solid State: AGarde XA
Pass Labs First Watt

Tube: Airtight Atm 300
Audiopax 88
Ayon Crossfire
Triode Trx 88pp

**Jack** · April 19, 2018, 12:59 AM

Pass XA-25 with a tube preamp might be an option. Just not a preamp with 6H30 tubes.

**AJ Soundfield** · April 19, 2018, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

IMO, great tube electronics are noticeably more musically involving with any Avantgardes, of any age.

That's not to say that using SS electronics won't be very satisfying - especially if you never hear great tube gear with them.

I would agree as a generalized rule of thumb...but not with transconductor SS, of which there are a rare few. Like the Pass First Watts and my Abacus, both current, not voltage amps like typical SS. They sound very much like tube amps with big horns (I can't hear much if any difference vs my Triode Labs, YMMV).
An option for those who want very low noise and heat to go with large horn systems. Or of course, tubes...VAC, AR, Triode, Lamm, etc, etc

cheers,

AJ

**Mike** · April 19, 2018, 07:14 AM

I’ve tried several solid state amps and always come back to tubes on AG.

The best I’ve tried is a single VAC 200iQ with NOS GoldLion KT88’s and the stock Tung-Sol 6SN7’s. The matching VAC preamp too. It gives the system a much lower noise floor than any SET amp I’ve tried, tighter bass, the same sweetness in the mids and highs as a great SET, and with power to spare.

My Triode 300b’s are a very close second and some may still prefer them.

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**Jim Smith** · April 19, 2018, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Willco

Jim, are there any that stand out as a good pairing with AG?

My goal is to preserve the speaker's great qualities, such as the lifelike dynamics which is pure sonic bliss with the right recordings -- but to tame the sometimes peakiness and (shoutyness?) in the upper mid range that is a particular problem on the majority of not so great recordings. These are unforgiving speakers.

If there were a solid state solution, that would be my ideal, but that may be a dream...

A few that have caught my attention:

Solid State: AGarde XA
Pass Labs First Watt

Tube: Airtight Atm 300
Audiopax 88
Ayon Crossfire
Triode Trx 88pp

I only have experience with The Audiopax 88. Great amp, but IME, not reliable. If someone would give you a pair that were working, go for it! I’ve heard great things about Airtight & Triode, but cannot speak from user experience. And the Vivas were always great. I know nothing about the Ayon.

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**nile49** · April 19, 2018, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jack

Pass XA-25 with a tube preamp might be an option. Just not a preamp with 6H30 tubes.

Why the 6H30 caveat? Noise? Sound signature?

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**Jack** · April 19, 2018, 11:05 AM

Just not my cup of tea if you want a tube front end. The ones I have heard were not different from SS pre's. Granted I have not heard ones in the price range of the Ref 10 so things may be different in those price ranges.

**pdub** · April 19, 2018, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

I would agree as a generalized rule of thumb...but not with transconductor SS, of which there are a rare few. Like the Pass First Watts and my Abacus, both current, not voltage amps like typical SS. They sound very much like tube amps with big horns (I can't hear much if any difference vs my Triode Labs, YMMV).
An option for those who want very low noise and heat to go with large horn systems. Or of course, tubes...VAC, AR, Triode, Lamm, etc, etc

cheers,

AJ

I tried the FW J2 with AGs without much success -- always seemed to be something missing in the middle. Wondered if all FW are current amps or if some are voltage. Also, according to the FW site http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html the J2 uses feedback -- other FW do not, and zero NFB seems to be something a lot of low wattage tube manufacturers incorporate.

Qualifiers to this failure to thrive: I was also running an SS pre and using the XLR inputs, which may have brought op-amps into play. Don't know if a tubed pre and RCAs might have allowed the J2 to sing.

Parker

**AJ Soundfield** · April 19, 2018, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by pdub

I tried the FW J2 with AGs without much success -- always seemed to be something missing in the middle. Wondered if all FW are current amps or if some are voltage. Also, according to the FW site http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html the J2 uses feedback -- other FW do not, and zero NFB seems to be something a lot of low wattage tube manufacturers incorporate.

Qualifiers to this failure to thrive: I was also running an SS pre and using the XLR inputs, which may have brought op-amps into play. Don't know if a tubed pre and RCAs might have allowed the J2 to sing.

Parker

I believe only the F1 and F2 are transconductors (current), all others are voltage, including your J2. Per your link, neither F1 or F2 use feedback.
Did I mention they sound tubish?

Of course, there is no guarantee someone won't prefer glowing bulbs instead...YMMV.
Yes, I would use a tube pre also.

cheers,

AJ

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 01:14 AM

Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you

**Golum** · September 14, 2018, 04:35 AM

Can't avoid thinking about Thomas Mayer amps with horns

**Mike** · September 14, 2018, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you

This is absolutely not a pairing I would recommend. It’s possible to get the combo sounding respectable with a lot of work on the DSP (which is part of the bass modules). But it’s not a pairing I would recommend.

To answer your second question, not at all close.

I have a First Watt SIT-3 coming once they are built (later this year). That should be fun to try.

You really hear the glory of tubes through horns.

**joeinid** · September 14, 2018, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Golum

Can't avoid thinking about Thomas Mayer amps with horns

Those could be amazing sounding.

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 08:28 PM

Thank you. So do Avantgarde's sound better with the more clean, modern tube sound like Zanden, or with the more classical, "toobey" sound, like the golden sounding Conrad Johnson of old? Thanks.

**Mike** · September 14, 2018, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Thank you. So do Avantgarde's sound better with the more clean, modern tube sound like Zanden, or with the more classical, "toobey" sound, like the golden sounding Conrad Johnson of old? Thanks.

Either.

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**Paul** · September 14, 2018, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you

I heard the AG speakers several times with Esoteric Class A 30 watts ( using as amp ) pairing with Audio Research Ref 6 as pre. Loved that combo not sweet as Tube amp but I could live with it for sure. - This words coming from anti Esoteric fan

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**astrotoy** · September 14, 2018, 10:50 PM

I've had my combo for 15 years with no changes except for new tubes every few years - Avantgarde Duos and Cary 2A3 signature monoblocks. Started with KR tubes which were stock with the Carys and moved to Shuguang and now Psvane Treasures as the KR's have grown very pricey. I bought both the Duos and Cary's used, so they are closer to 20 years old. Jim probably remembers when the Duos first came out.

I've heard the Thomas Mayer with the Pnoe Horns. Wonderful sound, but the Pnoes are 116 db efficient, a great match to the 1 watt Thomas Mayers. My Avantgarde Duos are something like 103 db and the Cary 2A3s are about 3-4 watts.

Larry

**Mike** · September 14, 2018, 10:52 PM

I have a hunch of a SS that may work well:

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**Mike** · September 30, 2018, 12:15 PM

I’ve been on the hunt for a SS amp that would work great with Avantgarde for the better part of 4 years now. So far, I’ve tried:

* Pass
* Luxman AB
* Luxman A
* Gryphon
* Constellation (was superb on AG)
* Soulution
* NAIM
* T+A
* McIntosh
* Bryston
* Ayre
* Numerous others...

None were as good as tube amps on the AG’s.

But I may have found one that is a real competitor and is really, an unlikely contender on paper. After two days, I have to say it’s a superb match. It’s got meat on the bones, smooth on top (or “slightly dark” as JV called it in his review) and does not sound “transistory”.

The winner (so far)....

**the professor** · September 30, 2018, 12:27 PM

Thats cool Mike.

I can't wait for the First Watt SIT-3 to start shipping tho. I have a feeling its going to be a big winner for AG's

**Mike** · September 30, 2018, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

Thats cool Mike.

I can't wait for the First Watt SIT-3 to start shipping tho. I have a feeling its going to be a big winner for AG's

Me too. I ordered 5 of them. 4 have already sold. I talked to Desmond last week and he said they will soon begin building them. I never thought Nelson would use up his stash of V-FET’s., but I’m glad he is!

**Boogieman** · November 16, 2020, 09:39 PM

Bump. Any updates? Anyone find anything else special? Thanks

**joeinid** · November 16, 2020, 10:40 PM

First Watt F7 and SIT1, SIT2 and SIT3, Valvet E2se, Luxman 590 AXII and MQ300 are all outstanding, as well as the PCF 25 (F7 clone with better parts).

**puroagave** · November 16, 2020, 11:16 PM

The LTA ZOTL10 sounds excellent over Uno Fino XDs and will stay. Ive tried the Valvet, First Watt F7, KR Audio VT20, Allnic 300B int. and ARC V35. I'm in no hurry to try more amps.

**Germanboxers** · November 17, 2020, 01:56 AM

Thomas Mayer 45 drives 45 is outstanding on Duo Mezzo XD’s. It is on another planet compared to all others I have tried and I long for nothing. That last part is revealing for me as a lifelong audiophile.

**joeinid** · November 17, 2020, 09:52 AM

Thomas makes beautiful gear. I’m sure you are in heaven with that setup.

**Germanboxers** · November 17, 2020, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thomas makes beautiful gear. I’m sure you are in heaven with that setup.

Yes, he does...they exude quality in every way. The noise level on the Duo Mezzos with linestage gain near 90% is completely absent with ear to the drivers. This is more quiet than any combination of low sensitivity, fully balanced systems I've had in the past. They are a straight wire to the brain for emotional communication.

**hogen** · November 17, 2020, 02:59 PM

Kondo! I have mine with the Kondo Overture II.

**Boogieman** · November 18, 2020, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

First Watt F7 and SIT1, SIT2 and SIT3, Valvet E2se, Luxman 590 AXII and MQ300 are all outstanding, as well as the PCF 25 (F7 clone with better parts).

Hi Joe, I am assuming the Luxman mq300 model is SET, while 590 is push pull. How different do push pull amps sound from SET? Or is one better than the other on all fronts?

**Boogieman** · November 18, 2020, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by hogen

Kondo! I have mine with the Kondo Overture II.

Excellent! Have you heard the Ongaku, by any chance?

Thread: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?