Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

Jim, are there any that stand out as a good pairing with AG?

My goal is to preserve the speaker's great qualities, such as the lifelike dynamics which is pure sonic bliss with the right recordings -- but to tame the sometimes peakiness and (shoutyness?) in the upper mid range that is a particular problem on the majority of not so great recordings. These are unforgiving speakers.

If there were a solid state solution, that would be my ideal, but that may be a dream...

A few that have caught my attention:

Solid State: AGarde XA
Pass Labs First Watt

Tube: Airtight Atm 300
Audiopax 88
Ayon Crossfire
Triode Trx 88pp
 
Jim Smith said:
IMO, great tube electronics are noticeably more musically involving with any Avantgardes, of any age.

That's not to say that using SS electronics won't be very satisfying - especially if you never hear great tube gear with them. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I would agree as a generalized rule of thumb...but not with transconductor SS, of which there are a rare few. Like the Pass First Watts and my Abacus, both current, not voltage amps like typical SS. They sound very much like tube amps with big horns (I can't hear much if any difference vs my Triode Labs, YMMV).
An option for those who want very low noise and heat to go with large horn systems. Or of course, tubes...VAC, AR, Triode, Lamm, etc, etc

cheers,

AJ
 
I’ve tried several solid state amps and always come back to tubes on AG.

The best I’ve tried is a single VAC 200iQ with NOS GoldLion KT88’s and the stock Tung-Sol 6SN7’s. The matching VAC preamp too. It gives the system a much lower noise floor than any SET amp I’ve tried, tighter bass, the same sweetness in the mids and highs as a great SET, and with power to spare.

My Triode 300b’s are a very close second and some may still prefer them.


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Willco said:
Jim, are there any that stand out as a good pairing with AG?

My goal is to preserve the speaker's great qualities, such as the lifelike dynamics which is pure sonic bliss with the right recordings -- but to tame the sometimes peakiness and (shoutyness?) in the upper mid range that is a particular problem on the majority of not so great recordings. These are unforgiving speakers.

If there were a solid state solution, that would be my ideal, but that may be a dream...

A few that have caught my attention:

Solid State: AGarde XA
Pass Labs First Watt

Tube: Airtight Atm 300
Audiopax 88
Ayon Crossfire
Triode Trx 88pp
Click to expand...

I only have experience with The Audiopax 88. Great amp, but IME, not reliable. If someone would give you a pair that were working, go for it! I’ve heard great things about Airtight & Triode, but cannot speak from user experience. And the Vivas were always great. I know nothing about the Ayon.


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Just not my cup of tea if you want a tube front end. The ones I have heard were not different from SS pre's. Granted I have not heard ones in the price range of the Ref 10 so things may be different in those price ranges.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
I would agree as a generalized rule of thumb...but not with transconductor SS, of which there are a rare few. Like the Pass First Watts and my Abacus, both current, not voltage amps like typical SS. They sound very much like tube amps with big horns (I can't hear much if any difference vs my Triode Labs, YMMV).
An option for those who want very low noise and heat to go with large horn systems. Or of course, tubes...VAC, AR, Triode, Lamm, etc, etc

cheers,

AJ
Click to expand...
I tried the FW J2 with AGs without much success -- always seemed to be something missing in the middle. Wondered if all FW are current amps or if some are voltage. Also, according to the FW site http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html the J2 uses feedback -- other FW do not, and zero NFB seems to be something a lot of low wattage tube manufacturers incorporate.

Qualifiers to this failure to thrive: I was also running an SS pre and using the XLR inputs, which may have brought op-amps into play. Don't know if a tubed pre and RCAs might have allowed the J2 to sing.

Parker
 
pdub said:
I tried the FW J2 with AGs without much success -- always seemed to be something missing in the middle. Wondered if all FW are current amps or if some are voltage. Also, according to the FW site http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html the J2 uses feedback -- other FW do not, and zero NFB seems to be something a lot of low wattage tube manufacturers incorporate.

Qualifiers to this failure to thrive: I was also running an SS pre and using the XLR inputs, which may have brought op-amps into play. Don't know if a tubed pre and RCAs might have allowed the J2 to sing.

Parker
Click to expand...
I believe only the F1 and F2 are transconductors (current), all others are voltage, including your J2. Per your link, neither F1 or F2 use feedback.
Did I mention they sound tubish? :)
Of course, there is no guarantee someone won't prefer glowing bulbs instead...YMMV.
Yes, I would use a tube pre also.

cheers,

AJ
 
Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you
 
Boogieman said:
Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you
Click to expand...

This is absolutely not a pairing I would recommend. It’s possible to get the combo sounding respectable with a lot of work on the DSP (which is part of the bass modules). But it’s not a pairing I would recommend.

To answer your second question, not at all close.

I have a First Watt SIT-3 coming once they are built (later this year). That should be fun to try.

You really hear the glory of tubes through horns.
 
Thank you. So do Avantgarde's sound better with the more clean, modern tube sound like Zanden, or with the more classical, "toobey" sound, like the golden sounding Conrad Johnson of old? Thanks.
 
Boogieman said:
Thank you. So do Avantgarde's sound better with the more clean, modern tube sound like Zanden, or with the more classical, "toobey" sound, like the golden sounding Conrad Johnson of old? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Either.


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Boogieman said:
Anyone hear the Avantgardes at the latest Axpona?
1. How good, on a scale of 1 (worst) and 10 (best), did the speakers sound with the Esoteric 30W class A amps in reaching the Avantgardes' full potential?
2. How close did the Avantgarde / Esoteric come to the sound of tubes?

Thank you
Click to expand...

I heard the AG speakers several times with Esoteric Class A 30 watts ( using as amp ) pairing with Audio Research Ref 6 as pre. Loved that combo not sweet as Tube amp but I could live with it for sure. - This words coming from anti Esoteric fan :)


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I've had my combo for 15 years with no changes except for new tubes every few years - Avantgarde Duos and Cary 2A3 signature monoblocks. Started with KR tubes which were stock with the Carys and moved to Shuguang and now Psvane Treasures as the KR's have grown very pricey. I bought both the Duos and Cary's used, so they are closer to 20 years old. Jim probably remembers when the Duos first came out.

I've heard the Thomas Mayer with the Pnoe Horns. Wonderful sound, but the Pnoes are 116 db efficient, a great match to the 1 watt Thomas Mayers. My Avantgarde Duos are something like 103 db and the Cary 2A3s are about 3-4 watts.

Larry
 
I have a hunch of a SS that may work well:

325819469c0f9c6f7ba71b235b64c354.jpg





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I’ve been on the hunt for a SS amp that would work great with Avantgarde for the better part of 4 years now. So far, I’ve tried:

* Pass
* Luxman AB
* Luxman A
* Gryphon
* Constellation (was superb on AG)
* Soulution
* NAIM
* T+A
* McIntosh
* Bryston
* Ayre
* Numerous others...

None were as good as tube amps on the AG’s.

But I may have found one that is a real competitor and is really, an unlikely contender on paper. After two days, I have to say it’s a superb match. It’s got meat on the bones, smooth on top (or “slightly dark” as JV called it in his review) and does not sound “transistory”.

The winner (so far)....

5c01a7acc22b45fbd14f13d29b0a719b.jpg
 
Thats cool Mike.

I can't wait for the First Watt SIT-3 to start shipping tho. I have a feeling its going to be a big winner for AG's
 
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