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  1. #51

    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Serge

  2. #52
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    with AGs, 80 WPC is overkill power-wise. you only need 3-4 WPC.
    Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | B.M.C MCCI Signature ULN | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | LTA ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

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  3. #53

    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    Thomas Mayer 45 drives 45 is outstanding on Duo Mezzo XDís. It is on another planet compared to all others I have tried and I long for nothing. That last part is revealing for me as a lifelong audiophile.
    Hi Germanboxers?
    Which other amps have you tried, if you don't mind sharing?

    Enjoy for many years in great health!

  4. #54

    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    with AGs, 80 WPC is overkill power-wise. you only need 3-4 WPC.
    Yeah those are a bit over the top. So many 300B in one monoblock!

    Well, I did enjoy a Shindo Cortese immensely with a few pairs of Tannoy including the Canterbury SE's. Has anyone tried Shindo or is 8-10w also an overkill?
    Serge

  5. #55
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieman View Post
    Hi Joe, I am assuming the Luxman mq300 model is SET, while 590 is push pull. How different do push pull amps sound from SET? Or is one better than the other on all fronts?
    SET is sweeter, more open, three dimensional, a little slower and more liquid. The 590 is probably better for classical music or when you want tighter bass and a little more taughtness overall. Both are great in different ways and really depends on the music that you love.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  6. #56
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieman View Post
    Hi Germanboxers?
    Which other amps have you tried, if you don't mind sharing?

    Enjoy for many years in great health!
    When I received the Duo Mezzoís, I had the ARC Ref75SE. Not a great combination, so I tried my Valvet A4 monoís and preferred them considerably. On my prior Zu Definitions Mk 4ís, the ARC was easily the better. Tried my friends Atma-Sphere MA-1ís (originally mine). It was excellent, but they need the Hexfried diode upgrade and lower gain version to be livable with the AGís, just too noisy. I then traded my ARC for my brotherís Audion Black Shadow 845 SET (mine originally). Definitely the right direction.

    I had been following Thomasí blog for some time and thought this was the time to take the plunge. In discussions with Thomas it became clear that the best sound quality path was the lowest power for my budget...started narrowing in on the 45 amp driven by either the 10Y or the 45, but couldnít get over the idea of 2w/ch being sufficient, despite having used 300Bís with the 101db Zuís to good effect, mathematically equivalent to 2w on 107db. I decided to purchase an Oliver Sayes 45 Korneff clone before deciding. When I first put it in the system I liked it better than all the others and I still had all of them, save the ARC in house. Ran it through its courses and when it transfixed me on Toolís latest album, I realized 2w/ch would be just fine so pulled the trigger with Thomas.

    While waiting for my amps and linestage, I purchased another 45 clone, this time a Yamamoto clone, again made by Oliver Sayes. And then picked up another Oliver Sayes built amp, a 46 based amp. For some music the 46 based amp was outstanding, but overall, 1w/ch just wasnít enough for times i wanted to ďjamĒ.

    Received the Thomas Mayer gear and sold my entire inventory except the Valvets and the Audion Black Shadows. The Valvets Iíll eventually sell and my friend really wants to buy the Black Shadows when he has the money so Iíll hold them until he can afford to buy them.

    I think that about covers it. I have zero interest in anything else...Iíve found my end.

    You can see some of the amps in this pic.

    D14BD1F2-D232-435A-A986-D656FA920BCA.jpeg
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Linestage: Thomas Mayer 10Y Silver
    Amplifier: Thomas Mayer 45 drives 45 mono blocks
    Speakers: Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  7. #57
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Viva, VAC, SIT-3.

    Canít say Iíve heard many better.
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    You can see the Oliver Sayes Yamamoto 45 clone and the 46 amp in the upper left of this pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Linestage: Thomas Mayer 10Y Silver
    Amplifier: Thomas Mayer 45 drives 45 mono blocks
    Speakers: Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  9. #59
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Beautiful layout. Thomasí gear is not cheap but Iím sure absolutely awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    When I received the Duo Mezzoís, I had the ARC Ref75SE. Not a great combination, so I tried my Valvet A4 monoís and preferred them considerably. On my prior Zu Definitions Mk 4ís, the ARC was easily the better. Tried my friends Atma-Sphere MA-1ís (originally mine). It was excellent, but they need the Hexfried diode upgrade and lower gain version to be livable with the AGís, just too noisy. I then traded my ARC for my brotherís Audion Black Shadow 845 SET (mine originally). Definitely the right direction.

    I had been following Thomasí blog for some time and thought this was the time to take the plunge. In discussions with Thomas it became clear that the best sound quality path was the lowest power for my budget...started narrowing in on the 45 amp driven by either the 10Y or the 45, but couldnít get over the idea of 2w/ch being sufficient, despite having used 300Bís with the 101db Zuís to good effect, mathematically equivalent to 2w on 107db. I decided to purchase an Oliver Sayes 45 Korneff clone before deciding. When I first put it in the system I liked it better than all the others and I still had all of them, save the ARC in house. Ran it through its courses and when it transfixed me on Toolís latest album, I realized 2w/ch would be just fine so pulled the trigger with Thomas.

    While waiting for my amps and linestage, I purchased another 45 clone, this time a Yamamoto clone, again made by Oliver Sayes. And then picked up another Oliver Sayes built amp, a 46 based amp. For some music the 46 based amp was outstanding, but overall, 1w/ch just wasnít enough for times i wanted to ďjamĒ.

    Received the Thomas Mayer gear and sold my entire inventory except the Valvets and the Audion Black Shadows. The Valvets Iíll eventually sell and my friend really wants to buy the Black Shadows when he has the money so Iíll hold them until he can afford to buy them.

    I think that about covers it. I have zero interest in anything else...Iíve found my end.

    You can see some of the amps in this pic.

    D14BD1F2-D232-435A-A986-D656FA920BCA.jpeg
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  10. #60
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Great to hear about your experience, Jordan. The Thomas Mayer stuff would probably be first in line if i splurge on Duo XDs some day. Viva Solista a close second.

    One other amp I'd love to hear on AGs is the new 47 Labs amp. Minimal parts, circuit path.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  11. #61
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    Great to hear about your experience, Jordan. The Thomas Mayer stuff would probably be first in line if i splurge on Duo XDs some day. Viva Solista a close second.

    One other amp I'd love to hear on AGs is the new 47 Labs amp. Minimal parts, circuit path.
    Good point, Keith. The Viva and VAC were on my "lust list" after buying Mike's AG Duo Mezzo's. With such efficient speakers I was drawn toward the concept of building around just the watts I needed, though. I also felt Mike had gone above and beyond with sending me his MSB Premier DAC to trial with no strings attached so probably resisted fully vetting the Viva or the VAC. I didn't want to be asking so much for no guarantee I would buy, especially with big heavy amps.

    The 47 Labs looks interesting, Keith. It does use alot of NFB though which might not be ideal for the short throw drivers in the AG's. Nevertheless, I hadn't ever even looked at the amp prior to your post...interesting approach.
    Room: 22' W x 26.5' L x 10' H. Constructed with double drywall with acoustic glue between sheets. Drywall isolated from studs and joists using IsoMax Isolation Clips.
    Room Treatments: Mix of GIK Acoustics Bass Traps, 244 panels with scatter plates and 242 panels with scatter plates
    Digital Files Handling: NAS -> Roonserver on CAPSv3 - i7 quad-core powered by Uptone Linear PS.
    Power Conditioning: Equi=Tech 2RQ Balanced Isolation Transformer, PS Audio Premier.
    Front End: MSB Reference DAC (Femto 77, Preamp Module, Renderv2)
    Linestage: Thomas Mayer 10Y Silver
    Amplifier: Thomas Mayer 45 drives 45 mono blocks
    Speakers: Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
    Video: Oppo BD-103 BR Player, JVC RS67U projector, 133" diagonal Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Frame screen.

  12. #62
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    I tried two gainclone amps on AG, the Audiosector Patek SE and Valab Vanus, both are based around the LM1875 or LM3875 chip like the 47 Lab. Yes the signal paths are extremely sort, in the case of the Valab there are so few components the circuit is actually hardwired. You should understand the pedigree of these chips, they are used in boom boxes and soundbars because they are cheap, compact and simple by design. I sold off the Patek and kept the Valab which powers a widebander I use on my desk top. They sound much better than you'd think i.e meaty, rich tonality/textures on AGs but not the ultimate in resolution.
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    Simon Yorke S10 | My Sonic Lab Eminent GL | B.M.C MCCI Signature ULN | Wadia X32 | Innuous ZEN Mini Mk II | Valvet Soulshine2 | LTA ZOTL10 MkII | Avantgarde Uno Fino XD

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  13. #63
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Back when I was involved as the North American Avantgarde distributor, I tried the 47 Labs gear.

    Technically, it was excellent. Unfortunately (to me at least), that's how it sounded - technical.

    No musical involvement at all. Hopefully, they have improved that aspect after 15 years or so.
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  14. #64
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Germanboxers View Post
    When I received the Duo Mezzoís, I had the ARC Ref75SE. Not a great combination, so I tried my Valvet A4 monoís and preferred them considerably. On my prior Zu Definitions Mk 4ís, the ARC was easily the better. Tried my friends Atma-Sphere MA-1ís (originally mine). It was excellent, but they need the Hexfried diode upgrade and lower gain version to be livable with the AGís, just too noisy. I then traded my ARC for my brotherís Audion Black Shadow 845 SET (mine originally). Definitely the right direction.

    I'm interested in you Valvet experience. I have recently purchased Duo XDs and have been considering the 12 watt Valvet E2se rather than the more powerful A4 monos. The E2se is single ended (rare for solid state I believe) and at leat one Duo or Mezzo owner favours this model. Have you heard this amp? Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845, NAD M32 for sale
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (for sale)

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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    I havenít heard the E2se, but have heard good things about it from more than one I would even fathom a guess that as a single-ended design and lower, but sufficient power for the AGís, might be a better option than the A4ís. That said, the A4ís are incredibly good amps for what they do and what they cost.

    Good luck!

  16. #66
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Iíll jump in to say that after a loooong break in, the valvet E2se is stunning. More than enough power. And once broken in, smooth, sweet, 3D, quiet, and layered with depth.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

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    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

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  17. #67
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Thanks for the Valvet comments. I've spoken with the UK distributor today and he will arrange a loan of his demo E2se when he gets it back from a dealer. It'll be interesting to compare it with my very different Purifi-based Class D amp. Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845, NAD M32 for sale
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (for sale)

  18. #68
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Iíd love to see your thoughts on the valvet. I hope you concur with my opinion but I know gear is so personal.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  19. #69
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieman View Post
    Excellent! Have you heard the Ongaku, by any chance?
    I have not heard it with Ongaku unfortunately.
    Speakers: Adyton Imagic 2.0 TC (line source), Subs: Audio Physic Minos x2, Amp: Adyton Cordis 1.7 Silver Signature, Pre: Burmester 077, RIAA: Burmester 100, Kondo GE-1, Consolidated MU-metal stepup Phono: Avid Acutus Ref. SP, Bergmann Galder, Technics sl-1000r, Michell Gyrodec, Arms: SME V with NO cabling, Bergmann Odin, SME 309, Thomas Schick 12ī, FR64S, PUīs: Lyra Atlas SL, Kiseki PH, DS Audio W2, SPU 85th ann., VdH Colibri XGW Master Sig. Strad. Cables: Nordost Valhalla2, Odin1 and Odin2, Power: Adyton 6kw trafo, Burmester 948, Isotek Supertitan, Nordost QRT QX2, QX4, Qv2, Rack: Aavik titanium rack, Absolare, Kanso wall-shelf, NO Sort Kones TC, BC, Sort Fut, Ansuz Darkz B:TC, Grounding: Nordost QKORE6
    System 2: Kondo Overture PM2,, Michell Gyrodec, Naim NDX streamer, Burmester 113 DAC, Avantgarde Uno XD, Nordost Valhalla, Audio Insight Isovolt 3 kw trafo.

  20. #70
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Iíd love to see your thoughts on the valvet. I hope you concur with my opinion but I know gear is so personal.
    Hi Joe - of course I'll post here.

    Incidentally as you probably know I have my new Duo XDs but still have my 2006 pre-Omega Duos. These are 3 generations earlier if you consider the Grosso as a pre-XD Duo with 12" drivers. I have both pairs of speakers rigged up to my amp via a Speaker Switcher placed on the table in front of me. Not ideal as the effective lengths of speaker cable are 8 meters or so, but I can compare one pair with the other by pushing a button. I had 2 friends around the other evening and we listened to numerous tracks while switching speakers. Very strange because there is a significant difference in the sound, but which we preferred varied continually. Even during some tracks, the comment was "I prefer the last speakers" and later when switched back, the same comment - or vice versa. And my friends didn't know which they were listening to. After a couple of hours there was still no consensus. I conclude that my old speakers are still very good (possibly improved by my support and isolation mods) and stand up very well with the latest XDs. This is pretty disappointing after spending so much on the new speakers!

    I'm now in touch with Armin Krauss of Avantgarde and I'm hoping we can get the new speakers sounding better. I still have plans to ditch the upright support poles and the spikes, but I'd like to talk these ideas over with him first. I hope AG won't follow the very unhelpful "If you change anything, your warranty is void" attitude. I don't think they will as his boss Helgar Fromme has favourably commented on the mods to my old Duos!

    My efforts with Dirac Live have been frustrating and disappointing. I had hoped that this procedure would provide pointers as to where to make speaker adjustments with the XD software. However, after running Dirac twice very carefully, it has produced poor sound, in particular it has over-emphasised the left channel so soloists have shifted over to that side. Again I'm in correspondence with NAD who include this in their M33 amp - no reply yet.

    I'll post again with a progress report. Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845, NAD M32 for sale
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (for sale)

  21. #71
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Peter,

    Good luck with the optimization. Iím sure I could use a little tweaking but overall extremely happy.

    Iím sure youíll get taken care of. Fingers crossed!
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  22. #72
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    Back when I was involved as the North American Avantgarde distributor, I tried the 47 Labs gear.

    Technically, it was excellent. Unfortunately (to me at least), that's how it sounded - technical.

    No musical involvement at all. Hopefully, they have improved that aspect after 15 years or so.
    That's interesting, Jim. Especially since an SET friend of mine recommends them and likes only 2 or 3 SS amps. Perhaps the Gaincard just wasn't a good match with high AG impedance.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  23. #73
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    I'd love to hear these little monos with my Duo XDs. - Gallium Nitride MOSFET powered

    AGD THE AUDION Monoblock Ė AGD Productions
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845, NAD M32 for sale
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (for sale)

  24. #74
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    Location
    NY
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    Re: Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    I'd love to hear these little monos with my Duo XDs. - Gallium Nitride MOSFET powered

    AGD THE AUDION Monoblock Ė AGD Productions
    Thereís a member here who has and loves those amps. I trust his judgment.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.

    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

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Amps that sound great with Avantgarde speakers ?

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