Thread: Honda Pilot VS VW Atlas

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Mike wants 10yrs/200K miles , yes he really believes he can ....

I’m hoping we can get that kind of longevity, yes.


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Originally Posted by Mike

I’m hoping we can get that kind of longevity, yes.


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We drove a Mercedes 300E for 22 years all over North America and my wife drove her 190D for 17. I maintained them both.

I would think a reasonable goal is to buy a car now that will last you until you can buy an electric car that will meet all your needs (by car I mean personal vehicle; SUV, pickup, whatever). And I would really suggest giving the Kia Telluride strong consideration.

Originally Posted by rbbert

I would think a reasonable goal is to buy a car now that will last you until you can buy an electric car that will meet all your needs (by car I mean personal vehicle; SUV, pickup, whatever). And I would really suggest giving the Kia Telluride strong consideration.

Over the Hyundai equivalent?

Originally Posted by Mike

Our findings are similar. Thoughts on the Hyundai?


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After driving my Santa Fe since last October, I can say it is reliable, comfortable, roomy, decent sound, NAV screen and prompts are good. I get 24mpg in red lights and 30-32 on any stretch without lights. Putting the Hyundai roof racks on cost 2-3mpg so I took them off till I really need to use them and they are simple to put on.

We do have one serious issue with the passenger side air bag. The sensor is not just weight, it is the depression in the seat from your ass cheeks. As soon as you place a blanket or seat pad between your ass and the seat, you no longer have an air bag available. I have been trying tons of experiments with no luck.

The stop and go can be defeated with a push button as you click in your seat belt but I seem to drive and come to stops in such a way it rarely kicks in.

The Heads Up Display is priceless along with all the alerts and safety features. The heated steering wheel and back seats won't matter much to you Floridians, but the Air Conditioned front seats are awesome.

The new Palisade was not out yet when I got the Santa Fe but if bigger than the SF is needed, I would not hesitate now after owning one.

all good to know Brian, thanks !

as for the question of the Caddy XT6, nothing but an overpriced Chevy. Cadillac is but a ship at sea without a rudder right now. As for an American product that is clearly superior to the XT6 at the moment, Lincoln Aviator.

Originally Posted by Mike

Over the Hyundai equivalent?

Not necessarily, I think personal preferences should factor heavily into that decision. The build quality and likely longevity are probably equivalent; I think the Kia's exterior and interior appearance is more stylish, but that's a matter of preference and taste.

The local dealer for each is another important factor.

Originally Posted by rbbert

Not necessarily, I think personal preferences should factor heavily into that decision. The build quality and likely longevity are probably equivalent; I think the Kia's exterior and interior appearance is more stylish, but that's a matter of preference and taste.

The local dealer for each is another important factor.

Since KIA and Hyundai are the same owners and share other stuff, it was described to me that the KIA is marketed to the younger crowd, lots of Black on Black, sporty, while the equivalent Hyundai is marketed for the Family Guy.

Originally Posted by rbbert

on the contrary, I’m sure 95% of new vehicles will go 10 years / 200k miles on the original engine and drivetrain, and very likely twice that. Don’t be put off by the fact that the other 5% is what you hear about.

ask a dealer service department (or even a specialty independent repair shop) what their experience is. There is a reason that they keep adding items onto the “routine” maintenance; they’d be broke if all they did was fix problems.

Well, look around your friends and family members who owned more than 10 yrs plus or 200k miles. I’m sure that would be less than 5 %. Now when you bring the car for the service they don’t open the hood anymore instead they hook up their laptop to diagnose it. In my opinion with all the computer stuff they put it on automobiles are just shorten their life span. The reason I said “ those days are gone “ statements. Well again it’s just my opinion.


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I have test driven both Pilot and the VW. Of the two, personally, I prefer the VW. It has much higher quality materials on the interior. It feels like a more expensive vehicle. The Pilot is flimsy and plasticity inside. The VW seats are more comfortable. The Lexus is nice and bit pricey. If you want something that ticks all the boxes, go test drive one of these. Subaru Ascent.

Originally Posted by Paul

Well, look around your friends and family members who owned more than 10 yrs plus or 200k miles. I’m sure that would be less than 5 %. Now when you bring the car for the service they don’t open the hood anymore instead they hook up their laptop to diagnose it. In my opinion with all the computer stuff they put it on automobiles are just shorten their life span. The reason I said “ those days are gone “ statements. Well again it’s just my opinion.


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Your opinion doesn’t agree with the actual facts, which show that right now the average age of cars on the road is 12 years. That’s for cars (including SUV’s and pickups) built up to 20 years ago. So of course no one knows for sure how long current cars will last, but data from JD Power and Consumers Union indicate that at least up to 3-5 years out, current vehicles are far more reliable and with fewer major problems than even 10 years ago. In fact today’s worst are on a par with the best from about 12-15 years ago.

And for all vehicles built since 1996 at least (if not even earlier), the first step any mechanic performs is hooking it up to the computer diagnostic, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

Originally Posted by CGabriel

I have test driven both Pilot and the VW. Of the two, personally, I prefer the VW. It has much higher quality materials on the interior. It feels like a more expensive vehicle. The Pilot is flimsy and plasticity inside. The VW seats are more comfortable. The Lexus is nice and bit pricey. If you want something that ticks all the boxes, go test drive one of these. Subaru Ascent.

I guess it all depends what your priorities are. To me, the quality of the interior takes a distant second to the vehicle’s durability and longevity. My VW AWD wagon needed $10K in repairs when it hit 100,000 miles. Even the radiator needed to be replaced. Seriously? I would never purchase a VW again.

Incidentally, I was getting an oil change at the Honda dealership yesterday (281,000 miles without a major repair) and I sat in a Pilot for awhile. It seemed pretty comfortable to me and very spacious.

Ken

Originally Posted by Alpinist

I guess it all depends what your priorities are. To me, the quality of the interior takes a distant second to the vehicle’s durability and longevity. My VW AWD wagon needed $10K in repairs when it hit 100,000 miles. Even the radiator needed to be replaced. Seriously? I would never purchase a VW again.

Incidentally, I was getting an oil change at the Honda dealership yesterday (281,000 miles without a major repair) and I sat in a Pilot for awhile. It seemed pretty comfortable to me and very spacious.

Ken

It's interesting to me that while VW, Audi and Porsche are all under the same corporate umbrella, and share chassis, drivetrains and many parts, Porsche ranks as extremely high quality and reliable, Audi nearly as much so, and VW far down the list. And in the past few years, Honda has generally had higher quality and reliability ratings than Acura, the opposite for Lexus and Toyota.

Originally Posted by rbbert

It's interesting to me that while VW, Audi and Porsche are all under the same corporate umbrella, and share chassis, drivetrains and many parts, Porsche ranks as extremely high quality and reliable, Audi nearly as much so, and VW far down the list. And in the past few years, Honda has generally had higher quality and reliability ratings than Acura, the opposite for Lexus and Toyota.

Very true. I’ve owned an Audi AWD wagon for a number of years and the reliability has been excellent.

Ken

Originally Posted by rbbert

Your opinion doesn’t agree with the actual facts, which show that right now the average age of cars on the road is 12 years. That’s for cars (including SUV’s and pickups) built up to 20 years ago. So of course no one knows for sure how long current cars will last, but data from JD Power and Consumers Union indicate that at least up to 3-5 years out, current vehicles are far more reliable and with fewer major problems than even 10 years ago. In fact today’s worst are on a par with the best from about 12-15 years ago.

And for all vehicles built since 1996 at least (if not even earlier), the first step any mechanic performs is hooking it up to the computer diagnostic, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

I don’t know where you live and certainly not the case where I live I work for auto industry and I believe what I see. I do not see your point either. Well let’s agree to disagree. Happy new year


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Originally Posted by rbbert

It's interesting to me that while VW, Audi and Porsche are all under the same corporate umbrella, and share chassis, drivetrains and many parts, Porsche ranks as extremely high quality and reliable, Audi nearly as much so, and VW far down the list. And in the past few years, Honda has generally had higher quality and reliability ratings than Acura, the opposite for Lexus and Toyota.

VW and Audi are renowned for having electrical issues. I have a 2006 Passat with the 3.6 engine and it still has under 40,000 miles. It’s been back to the dealer numerous times for replacement of switches that overheated as well as recalls.

Originally Posted by Paul

I don’t know where you live and certainly not the case where I live I work for auto industry and I believe what I see. I do not see your point either. Well let’s agree to disagree. Happy new year

Why wouldn't you know where I live?? And what would that have to do with anything? And my point is simple; cars are lasting longer than ever (certainly dramatically longer than before computerized engine controls), and build quality is better than ever. Those are objective facts, supported by data from inside and outside the auto industry, not my opinion.

Originally Posted by rbbert

Why wouldn't you know where I live?? And what would that have to do with anything? And my point is simple; cars are lasting longer than ever (certainly dramatically longer than before computerized engine controls), and build quality is better than ever. Those are objective facts, supported by data from inside and outside the auto industry, not my opinion.

As I said let’s agree to disagree. I do not careless on your point. Simple. You believe what you believe and I believe what I see in everyday. JD powers ? They got much trust from me same as all audio magazines and data coz I only trust my ears. Happy New Year.


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Originally Posted by rbbert

Why wouldn't you know where I live?? And what would that have to do with anything? And my point is simple; cars are lasting longer than ever (certainly dramatically longer than before computerized engine controls), and build quality is better than ever. Those are objective facts, supported by data from inside and outside the auto industry, not my opinion.

Rob I hear 'ya, not sure if Paul has anything other than JD Power to lean on ? Regardless, with the rush to turbo 4's everywhere these days there does seem to be some concern. that's why for longevity , as I said earlier, make mine N/A. 40-50 years ago 100,000 miles was about it. Truth be told in the Northeast many a vehicle from back then had already rusted away, but with better metallurgical treating todays thinner sheetmetal cars actually last longer. A properly maintained gasoline engine today will last as long as many diesels. Precise metering of fuel combined with the wide acceptance of synthetic oil are two big reasons.

Why an SUV rather than a minivan if you just want to haul people in comfort? Minivans allow you to step into the vehicle and almost stand up depending on your height. Isn't that more comfortable than an SUV with three rows of seats that you need to weave between?

It's always been strange to me that people purchase SUVs purely to haul bodies in comfort and not use them for their intended purpose of getting off-road or using it as a utility vehicle to tow, haul home depot crap and be a little rougher with compared to a "nicer car".

Why not buy A Honda odyssey or Toyota sienna?

I'm being serious, not a smart ass.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Why an SUV rather than a minivan if you just want to haul people in comfort? Minivans allow you to step into the vehicle and almost stand up depending on your height. Isn't that more comfortable than an SUV with three rows of seats that you need to weave between?

It's always been strange to me that people purchase SUVs purely to haul bodies in comfort and not use them for their intended purpose of getting off-road or using it as a utility vehicle to tow, haul home depot crap and be a little rougher with compared to a "nicer car".

Why not buy A Honda odyssey or Toyota sienna?... they look just like the SUVs being discussed here.

I'm being serious, not a smart ass.

Thanks.

My wife hates them.


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We test drove the Honda Pilot, Kia Teluride and Hyundai Pallisade.

For us, the Hyundai was the clear winner in overall features, smooooooth ride and quiet. The Honda’s breaks were bad. The Kia was a close second to the Hyundai, but I didn’t like the weird dash.

We may wait and try the new Toyota Highlander - redesigned for 2020. But so far, the Hyundai was the winner.


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If you are hauling people frequently, beware the smaller SUVs. As much as I love my Macan, and my wife’s GLK, I don’t like sitting in the back seat of either one.

Just little kids and scrony old grandparents.


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I picked my car for seat hight. I wanted to be able to just sit into the thing, and stand right up out of it. My previous car was a Boxster, and while I loved it, falling into that seat (6-8 inches off the ground), and prying my late 50s butt out of it several times a day got old. I traded it in while it still had good value (4 years) I anticipate keeping this one until repairs get too often.

Mike

My wife's had her Hyundai Tucson since July of 2010 and in all that time other than oil changes all that's been done is I have changed wiper blades, one gas cap and a battery at seven years. It has been completely trouble free.

Originally Posted by Jack

Mike

My wife's had her Hyundai Tucson since July of 2010 and in all that time other than oil changes all that's been done is I have changed wiper blades, one gas cap and a battery at seven years. It has been completely trouble free.

Thanks Jack. The one we drove today was a winner.


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Until the Mazda is tried the list is incomplete.

Mike

When she buys again next year it will either be whatever the current equivalent is or the Mazda CX-5 as that's as big as we need. Nobody to haul except an infant grandson sometimes and groceries.

Just for completeness Mike should try the Mazda. Personally, I have a 2005 Mazda3 that I bought in November 2004. So far I haven’t had any issues with it, so I will keep driving it. One time when I took it in for periodic service they gave me a CX-5 to use, and it was pretty nice. Unfortunately, it only has an automatic transmission, so I can’t get one. I am 70 and every car I have had has a manual transmission, so my last car also has to be manual.

Originally Posted by Mike

My wife hates them.


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Understood.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Just for completeness Mike should try the Mazda. Personally, I have a 2005 Mazda3 that I bought in November 2004. So far I haven’t had any issues with it, so I will keep driving it. One time when I took it in for periodic service they gave me a CX-5 to use, and it was pretty nice. Unfortunately, it only has an automatic transmission, so I can’t get one. I am 70 and every car I have had has a manual transmission, so my last car also has to be manual.

We need second row bucket seats. Long story. I don’t see that with the Mazda.


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Originally Posted by puroagave

It Looks sweet...

I was very impressed. $46k sticker. Loaded.


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Originally Posted by Mike

We need second row bucket seats. Long story. I don’t see that with the Mazda.

Oops. Sorry. I missed that.

just saw this thread. full disclosure; i manage a large Honda dealership, been here for 39 years and been GM for 28 years.

the last 8-9 years i always drive Pilot demos, 3 different ones a year, the last year i switched to the Passport (a 2 row seat version of the Pilot). i put 18,000 miles a year on these 3 demos. so i know these cars. awesome vehicles.

been appraising cars my whole life, and our dealership sells 150 used cars a month, 2/3rd's sports utility models of all brands. the proof of any model is in how it survives as a used car.

as far as resale value; nothing is as good as a Honda Pilot in that price category. People always pay a premium to buy the Honda. we are able to acquire SUV's of premium brands of the same year as Pilots for less than the Pilot which was maybe $10k-$20k lower MSRP, and then the Pilot will sell used for more. why? because the average repair order cost on a Pilot is $200, the average for other brands is $800. they don't want to own those others out of warranty. then if they purchase a service contract; the cost for the Pilot is half as much. we see 200,000 mile Pilots. take them as trade-ins.

and while all vehicles these days do have issues from time to time, the Pilot has fewer than most. and when i appraise used cars as far as fit and finish and everything working there are Honda's and there is everything else.

specifically regarding VW and Audi; we have saying; they don't make extension cords long enough to sell those. i try and prevent my used car manager selling used VW or Audi's not under warranty since they don't stay fixed. and the repair cost is outrageous. we can't keep customers happy and end up with long term continual customer issues. VW/Audi's are sexy cars and drive nice. i see why people like them. but over the years they suck.

a new VW model in it's first year? how much pain do you want?

i know you live in Florida, so the 4wd aspect is not significant; but Honda and Acura have the best torque vectoring 4WD system you can buy. i live in a snow area with steep hills and it's like a mountain goat. it's adjustable on the fly for mud or sand. and it's very reliable. there is a short steep hill near my house that many SUV's cannot navigate in the snow or ice. i drive right up or down it regardless.

if you are just leasing it and won't own it out of warranty then some of these issues might not apply; but if you don't like the vehicle you lease and it's a Pilot; likely the value holds enough to get out early; most others in this category would be very painful to get extracted from. i deal with this issue with other makes all the time where a large check must be stroked to get out of lease where you are fed up with the vehicle.

i know the GM of a Tampa Honda dealership well; if you have an interest i can connect you.

Thanks Mike. My wife hated the brakes on the Pilot. Felt like mush. Ditto for the Odyssey we drove. I could live with it, but she was absolutely convinced something was wrong. The bad salesman (he was completely disinterested) said they were both behaving normal.

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks Mike. My wife hated the brakes on the Pilot. Felt like mush. Ditto for the Odyssey we drove. I could live with it, but she was absolutely convinced something was wrong. The bad salesman (he was completely disinterested) said they were both behaving normal.

interesting. don't hear that objection myself and have not experienced that. i suppose it's a context thing as far as what you are use to.

what brake system was your wife use to using?

i'd be surprised if the brakes were not operating as normal. OTOH bad salespeople do exist for every brand. some don't care and no fix for that (one obvious one of course). likely he was not experienced at dealing with an objection such as that. how it should have been handled was to (1) drive another vehicle, and (2) to introduce you to their service team to make sure all was well and explain how things work.

brake pedal pressure is very consistent over all the vehicles i drive with Honda. but that does not make it right for every customer. they must feel safe and in control.

if the customer liked the car other than the brake issue then i would offer an over-night test drive to see if a comfort level with that difference could be found. in a short test drive changes from what a person is used to become bigger than maybe they really are. good-bad is sometimes just different.

or a brake pedal pressure issue might be a seat adjustment issue. leg leverage might have to be altered slightly.

Originally Posted by Mike

We may wait and try the new Toyota Highlander - redesigned for 2020. But so far, the Hyundai was the winner.


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Mike, be sure to check the rear cargo floor on the re-designed Highlander. The current model is not level and slopes to the rear, poor design.

As for the Hyundai, great all around IMO except for those wheels, OMG what a PIA to clean !