Thread: 2019 Aston Martin Vantage

Originally Posted by Mike

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...mag=cdb&dom=fb

Having purchased #3 of the first generation of the Vanquish, I can say I will NEVER EVER consider buying an Aston Martin ever again. I had the thing three months, it overheated every single time I took it out despite the supposedly "space shuttle" bricks used to disperse heat from the engine. It was beautiful but couldn't be driven. I was lied to that there were no production problem ONLY to find out there were production problems only to see two Vanquishs on the lift with lifts removing their engine. Dumped it after three months, thankfully only lost 30K as the prices plummeted with the release of the DB 5 months later which was 100K cheaper, just as fast and almost as pretty.

The silver lining in the cloud was that Greg Norman picked his up right before me, traded in his new BMW Z8 which had 700 miles on it and my dealer was leasing it for 600/month. Of course I jumped on it for my "everyday car" quickly dumping my Acura and loved the Z8 for the next 3 years.

So it ended ok.

Originally Posted by Mike

I had often wondered about their QC. Thanks for shedding some light on that.

Sounds old Ferrari like in terms of reliability.

I had a 355 Spyder that was HEAVEN compared to the Vanquish and I had nothing but problems with the Ferrari. So that puts an Aston into perspective.

I like to invoke Yogi Berra in describing a Ferrari. It's the cheapest car you can buy assuming you can afford it. I literally beat mine to death, put 14,000 miles on it, had it for 2 years and one day after a long week of work woke up and decided to take it for a drive to the Keys with my wife. Of course the thing wouldn't start. I lost my temper, kicked it and put a small dent into and pushed it into the driveway and told my dealer get it the hell out of here I am sick of trickle charging it, oil burning, clutch issues, etc etc.

Amazingly, it cost me only $5,000 to drive it for two years of course exclusive of maintenance.

The other funny thing about it was that my dealer's chief of service guy was from Maranello. He would beg me to call him before I brought my car in. He explained to me that everyone in America is crazy. They keep their cars under bubbles, shine it every day BUT never drive it and it was a pleasure to work on my car as there was actually something to do on it compared to the others.

I never understood the buy a car thing and not using it.

I think I am done with the exotic car thing. In FL, whether it be on the Tpke or I-95, loose debris and open trucks have a way of finding exotics and destroying them. I had a Lotus years ago which I loved driving and a tire fell off a truck in front of me and my Lotus was totaled. It wasn't just a tire but a tire and rim. Too many of these kinds of stories plus few places to drive them.

Originally Posted by Priaptor

Having purchased #3 of the first generation of the Vanquish, I can say I will NEVER EVER consider buying an Aston Martin ever again. I had the thing three months, it overheated every single time I took it out despite the supposedly "space shuttle" bricks used to disperse heat from the engine. It was beautiful but couldn't be driven. I was lied to that there were no production problem ONLY to find out there were production problems only to see two Vanquishs on the lift with lifts removing their engine. Dumped it after three months, thankfully only lost 30K as the prices plummeted with the release of the DB 5 months later which was 100K cheaper, just as fast and almost as pretty.

The silver lining in the cloud was that Greg Norman picked his up right before me, traded in his new BMW Z8 which had 700 miles on it and my dealer was leasing it for 600/month. Of course I jumped on it for my "everyday car" quickly dumping my Acura and loved the Z8 for the next 3 years.

So it ended ok.

Wow!!
Btw, had you kept that Z8 you would be sitting on a very desirable car. Read somewhere that several have sold for over $300k today.

By the way, there are a few exotics that are fairly reliable these days. The R8 and the new Lambos (the ones built by the Germans).

Originally Posted by nicoff

Wow!!
Btw, had you kept that Z8 you would be sitting on a very desirable car. Read somewhere that several have sold for over $300k today.

I know. However, I put over 42K miles on it. I really drove it. The residual was ridiculous so I walked on it. It was the best BMW I ever owned BUT didn't handle well but was absolutely gorgeous and just a pleasure to drive and own. Definitely on my favorite list of exotics I have owned.

Originally Posted by nicoff

By the way, there are a few exotics that are fairly reliable these days. The R8 and the new Lambos (the ones built by the Germans).

My buddy has an R8. Love that car. By the way, where I talked about things flying at you on the highway here in FL, a mattress flew off a truck at his car several weeks ago on 595. 40K worth of damage. Like I said above, the more expensive the car, the more likely you are to get nailed.

Originally Posted by KeithR

Looked at buying a used DB9, but couldn't stomach the maintenance costs. They just live in the shop every year after doing my research and talking to various folks around LA. Maseratis are dirt cheap out here and have the same issue.

I like exotics, but honestly Porsches are so good now and much more reliable - why pay the premium.

YUP. I remember the days of the handmade Porsche, with a 26 step custom paint process, engine all hand built and NOTHING but trouble and you had to carry oil with you as you burned a liter every 1000 miles. I had what they called the original doctor killer, one of the Turbos they ultimately took off the market. Today's Porsches are much lower maintenance and just work. Same with Audi.

Having said the above, I have never had a more reliable car/truck than my 2007 Tundra that I have out in Montana. It has never given me one problem.

Originally Posted by Priaptor

YUP. I remember the days of the handmade Porsche, with a 26 step custom paint process, engine all hand built and NOTHING but trouble and you had to carry oil with you as you burned a liter every 1000 miles. I had what they called the original doctor killer, one of the Turbos they ultimately took off the market. Today's Porsches are much lower maintenance and just work. Same with Audi.

Having said the above, I have never had a more reliable car/truck than my 2007 Tundra that I have out in Montana. It has never given me one problem.

The reason why today’s Porsches are more reliable is due to Toyota. When Porsche was about to fold with high costs and low reliability, Toyota helped Porsche get rid of their QC problems. Without Toyota, Porsche would have not survived.

Originally Posted by Mike

Love my 2017 Corvette Grand Sport Convertible. It’s loaded. Bought it used (2000 miles), so about $34k under sticker. It’s a much better car than my 911 GTS. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it and I don’t fret if it doesn’t get driven for a few days. It’s not good for hauling speakers and amps to customers, but most DAC’s fit in the trunk.

Being a GM, it’s also very reasonable for maintenance. Love it. Just, love it.

Fun to watch:

https://youtu.be/GbtoXMOiqtQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice video! This new Corvette looks great and it is a performer! Glad to see that GM finally got it together.
Enjoy your car!!!

Originally Posted by Mike

Love my 2017 Corvette Grand Sport Convertible. It’s loaded. Bought it used (2000 miles), so about $34k under sticker. It’s a much better car than my 911 GTS. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it and I don’t fret if it doesn’t get driven for a few days. It’s not good for hauling speakers and amps to customers, but most DAC’s fit in the trunk.

Being a GM, it’s also very reasonable for maintenance. Love it. Just, love it.

Fun to watch:

https://youtu.be/GbtoXMOiqtQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a great car Mike , nicer than the GTS , ahhhhhhhhhh , errrr .....

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Audis are much more reliable than any Porsche (I own both). And by much, I mean like 10x more reliable. It is a little known fact that almost none of the Porsche engines can make it past 150k miles (unless it is a VW/Audi engine). 911, Boxter, Cayenne (flat 6, V8) - ALL just fell apart after that milage and need super costly rebuilds. And many do fail MUCH sooner than that - 50-60k miles before a complete engine rebuild. Just talk to any Porsche mechanic.

Hell, Porsche has not been even able to solve the transfer box issue in the 958 Cayenne (2011-2018). There are people who are on their 3rd transfer box already (which costs several thousand to replace).

I second the R8 V10 as one of the most reliable exotics. A friend of mine owns one and apart from regular maintnance, had only to replace rotors and pads. The car has been absolutely trouble free for 7 years and 60.000 miles.

This has not been my experience, at all , unreliable ..! R8's are good cars but nothing better than Porsche's' and if you do track days you will understand why Porsche sells more than all other's combine ...


BTW Cayenne is Audi /VW powerplant, Audi's and VW's are far from trouble free, if you like driving buy the Porsche if only as a transport buy the audi, VW , et al ....


Regards ..

My 07 Tundra was a POS...the under carriage rusted, calipers always needed to be taken apart to prevent seizing, everything in engine compartment rusted. Toyota sucks

The only Jap stuff to buy is Honda. My 3 yr old Ridgeline is pretty devoid of any rust.

Originally Posted by nicoff

The reason why today’s Porsches are more reliable is due to Toyota. When Porsche was about to fold with high costs and low reliability, Toyota helped Porsche get rid of their QC problems. Without Toyota, Porsche would have not survived.

Not exactly. Toyota helped streamline and modernize Porche's production process at Stuttgart.......so that they would be more profitable

Originally Posted by Kingsrule

Not exactly. Toyota helped streamline and modernize Porche's production process at Stuttgart.......so that they would be more profitable

Yea Toyota was hired to setup their production line and had tried many times to purchase Porsche , but they were never allowed to , Weissach research center is “the” center in the car world..


Regards

Originally Posted by nicoff

The reason why today’s Porsches are more reliable is due to Toyota. When Porsche was about to fold with high costs and low reliability, Toyota helped Porsche get rid of their QC problems. Without Toyota, Porsche would have not survived.

Air cooled Porsche’s were never unreliable and never needed Toyota for a “fix “, there were QC issues , in regards to fit and finish and other oddities, so build quality had to be addressed as Porsche was never setup and had never intended to manufacturer such large numbers and was actually outsourcing the work to Audi and others ( 911/928 were in house) this led to high production cost and low QC .

The Toyota production line method ended the air cooled engine era as it did not lend itself to production methods and was mostly hand built. The water cooled Porsche had other issues of over complexity and high production cost and needed gone . Those changes led to the current water cooled based cars .

BTW,

Porsche was’nt going anywhere with or without Toyota’s Help , Toyota is a car manufacturer who races , Porsche is a race shop manufacturing and building street cars , Toyota provided the direction necessary to make the transition from race shop to car manufacturer...



Regards

Originally Posted by Elberoth

You aren't deep into Audi / Porsches, are you ?

There are VERY few VW/Audi engines that Porsche actually uses. There are the TDI ones in Cayenne / Macan / Panamera, the 2.0 TFSI in a Macan, VR6 in older Cayenne models. The new upcoming Cayenne (2019-) may use more Audi engines - not sure about this, would need to check, but 2.9T and 4.0T sound familiar.

RE. Audi R8. I'm not talking here about the R8 V10 performance or sales vs Porsche (which would be a loooong debate), but reliability. And the truth is, Porsche engines are junk from the reliability point of view (ok, maybe Yugo is still worse).

I want to make things clear here: I own both Audi and Porsche, so I have no horse in this race. Go to rennlist forum or 6speedonline to learn about many Porsche engine problems.

I was into Porsche more than I care to list but kind of grew tired of the 911, except for the GT series. Same with exotics in general. It would be nice to have some of that $$ back but I had a great time with just about all of my exotics; some were nightmares.

Because of my hip I had to get Macan, got the Turbo but found getting in was fairly difficult as well. I went into Audi looking around as I never owned one. They had an RS3 on the floor trying to get 10K over list and saw me looking at it. I love those little pocket rockets. They saw me getting in and out and surprisingly given the absence of a complete circle at the bottom of the steering wheel and the way the seats are made it was pretty easy in and out. All the salesman wanted to do was tell me about the car's prowess and all I cared about was getting in and out.

I think they only make 250 year, they were obviously not getting an extra 10K out of me. Well, needless to say, I traded the Macan and left with RS3. I know what I am about to say is heresy to Porsche owners, but I had a Cayman GTS and really like the RS3 better. Awesome car. Got it with the additional performance package.

After I get my hip replaced, I will see what if anything is on the list. If you have never driven an American Muscle car, there are some very worth the price of admission. Totally different experience BUT....

Originally Posted by Elberoth

You aren't deep into Audi / Porsches, are you ?

There are VERY few VW/Audi engines that Porsche actually uses. There are the TDI ones in Cayenne / Macan / Panamera, the 2.0 TFSI in a Macan, VR6 in older Cayenne models. The new upcoming Cayenne (2019-) may use more Audi engines - not sure about this, would need to check, but 2.9T and 4.0T sound familiar.

RE. Audi R8. I'm not talking here about the R8 V10 performance or sales vs Porsche (which would be a loooong debate), but reliability. And the truth is, Porsche engines are junk from the reliability point of view (ok, maybe Yugo is still worse).

I want to make things clear here: I own both Audi and Porsche, so I have no horse in this race. Go to rennlist forum or 6speedonline to learn about many Porsche engine problems.

Adam could you clarify what you wrote , are they using or not using Audi/VW power plants ?

Are you saying the Audi/VW powerplants in Porsche’s are junk or is it the 911 engines in particular ..

I do own , have , had both Marques and know a little bit about them as well as other Marques , raced a few too , very Familiar with Rennlist and 6spd , car forums , ALL , discuss problems , go to any and see one without issues , Audi/VW got major issues , never had anything remotely bad with any Porsche (911 specifically) I won’t run an Audi /VW product out of warranty , garbage plastic bits and wiring issues abound , of course BMW can be worse and Mercedes , arggh , have their woes too.

My Brother went full Lexus , due to German woes for decades , I can’t stand those things , well the driving part , if for transportation only ? Buy Jap ..

It’s a bit different across the pond here mate .....

Double post .... :

Originally Posted by Priaptor

I was into Porsche more than I care to list but kind of grew tired of the 911, except for the GT series. Same with exotics in general. It would be nice to have some of that $$ back but I had a great time with just about all of my exotics; some were nightmares.

Because of my hip I had to get Macan, got the Turbo but found getting in was fairly difficult as well. I went into Audi looking around as I never owned one. They had an RS3 on the floor trying to get 10K over list and saw me looking at it. I love those little pocket rockets. They saw me getting in and out and surprisingly given the absence of a complete circle at the bottom of the steering wheel and the way the seats are made it was pretty easy in and out. All the salesman wanted to do was tell me about the car's prowess and all I cared about was getting in and out.

I think they only make 250 year, they were obviously not getting an extra 10K out of me. Well, needless to say, I traded the Macan and left with RS3. I know what I am about to say is heresy to Porsche owners, but I had a Cayman GTS and really like the RS3 better. Awesome car. Got it with the additional performance package.

After I get my hip replaced, I will see what if anything is on the list. If you have never driven an American Muscle car, there are some very worth the price of admission. Totally different experience BUT....

RS3 is a great car drivers car ... I’m crazier , looking at a new Alfa ..

Originally Posted by a.wayne

RS3 is a great car drivers car ... I’m crazier , looking at a new Alfa ..

I like that new Alfa. One of the craziest cars I ever bought was the first hardtop Dodge Viper with the blue body and white stripe. First, you burned you leg every time you got out of the car. Second, the air intake valves would ALWAYS loosen and as a result, where the car should be idling at 400-500 rpm, it would then start idling at 2500 rpm, near maximum torque so getting into first was something else. The cabin was hotter than hell and by the time I got to work I needed a shower. BUT driving the car was exhilarating, at least when it worked.

Today's "exotics" with very few exceptions have AC, radio that you can hear and all the creature features that were absent on exotics years ago.

Originally Posted by a.wayne

Adam could you clarify what you wrote , are they using or not using Audi/VW power plants ?

Are you saying the Audi/VW powerplants in Porsche’s are junk or is it the 911 engines in particular ..

I do own , have , had both Marques and know a little bit about them as well as other Marques , raced a few too , very Familiar with Rennlist and 6spd , car forums , ALL , discuss problems , go to any and see one without issues , Audi/VW got major issues , never had anything remotely bad with any Porsche (911 specifically) I won’t run an Audi /VW product out of warranty , garbage plastic bits and wiring issues abound , of course BMW can be worse and Mercedes , arggh , have their woes too.

My Brother went full Lexus , due to German woes for decades , I can’t stand those things , well the driving part , if for transportation only ? Buy Jap ..

It’s a bit different across the pond here mate .....

here is the reality of it from a car business perspective.

based on decades of painful experience, I won't allow my Used Car department to sell an Audi or VW out of warranty. we don't have long enough extension cords and when you do fix them they don't stay fixed (can't make customers happy).

average repair order (non oil change) in my Honda dealership is about $170. it's over $600 at the VW dealership up the street. and the customer expectations are totally different (Honda customers expect perfect)...…but got to hand it to VW their customers are somehow loyal. and the cars are relatively fun to drive.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

And Porsche would be like $2000, lol.

A small service @ AUDI dealership (basicly an oil change) cost over here 150 EUR + parts (oil, oil filter).

Same service @ Porsche dealership (which is in the very same building) is ... 600 EUR. 4x more. Same for Porsche branded oils and parts. But they give an invoice nicely folded in an DL envelope, LOL.

I will tell you thing I can't stand about some of these places. I can't stand that you have to first speak to "service representative", wait in their coffee room until he/she is finished with others, then have to sit while he/she makes small talk, writes down all the stuff on the sheets to finally hand over the keys. One of the things I loved about my Shelby was I drove the thing to Ford, just handed over the keys and was gone.

I had so many nightmares with the "free service" with my M3 with BMW I said never again. Rodney was my service guy. Before I could drop the car off I had to see Rodney. My left rear light never worked. I would tell him over and over again with each service FIX THE LIGHT. It never got fixed. At the big service at 36K, I waited for Rodney, told him about the rear light for which once again apologized. I picked the car up, drove about 3 miles just before getting on the TPKE and every dummy light in the car came on. I drove it back to the dealer and Rodney was out to lunch and was told very "nicely" by the receptionist you have to WAIT for Rodney. I exploded and the service manager finally came out. Well three weeks later, after they fixed what they broke, I picked up the car and guess what, the real light still didn't work. That was it for me.

That's high end markup for autophiles lol.

Originally Posted by Priaptor

I will tell you thing I can't stand about some of these places. I can't stand that you have to first speak to "service representative", wait in their coffee room until he/she is finished with others, then have to sit while he/she makes small talk, writes down all the stuff on the sheets to finally hand over the keys. One of the things I loved about my Shelby was I drove the thing to Ford, just handed over the keys and was gone.

I had so many nightmares with the "free service" with my M3 with BMW I said never again. Rodney was my service guy. Before I could drop the car off I had to see Rodney. My left rear light never worked. I would tell him over and over again with each service FIX THE LIGHT. It never got fixed. At the big service at 36K, I waited for Rodney, told him about the rear light for which once again apologized. I picked the car up, drove about 3 miles just before getting on the TPKE and every dummy light in the car came on. I drove it back to the dealer and Rodney was out to lunch and was told very "nicely" by the receptionist you have to WAIT for Rodney. I exploded and the service manager finally came out. Well three weeks later, after they fixed what they broke, I picked up the car and guess what, the real light still didn't work. That was it for me.

note to self; don't bring work to your hobby forum. then it's like you are still at work.

I'm 'that guy' who gets the most irate customer and has to stop the bleeding. it's why I have my hifi system, as the antidote.

Originally Posted by Elberoth

All problematic engines are those specific to Porsche:

- flat six in the 911 / Boxter / Cayman
- V8 in Panamera / Cayenne / Macan

Audi sourced engines ... just work. Which is not surprising, with the number of cars in the field (VAG has deployed them in across all their brands, from VW, Audi to Skoda), VAG had the time and car numbers needed to perfect them.

I had Audi A4 B6, S5 B8 and Q5. I did over 100.000 miles in my (modded!) 2002 Audi A4 1.8T B6 and another 100.000 in 2010 Audi Q5 2.0 TDI (chipped!) and had almost zero problems with each car (I had coilpacks recalled on my A4 and a swinarm replaced on my Q5). My 2010 S5 has only 30.000 miles and of course - zero problems.

Many of my friends running Audis share my experience.

I also had 2001 Merc C-Class and 2004 Merc E-Class. I my wife did over 120.000 with each and those were a nightmare. Many electrical problems and they rusted like a FIAT from the 80s! Never ever a Merc again.

All cars I've bought were brand new.

It's different here , no such issues with Porsche ( more experience with these, models type ,etc, than you audio shows ) flat 6 , many with VAG product , mostly non mechanical issues, all electric and broken plastic bits , this has been my experience and yes no more merc here for me so we agree on that ...

Regards..

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

here is the reality of it from a car business perspective.

based on decades of painful experience, I won't allow my Used Car department to sell an Audi or VW out of warranty. we don't have long enough extension cords and when you do fix them they don't stay fixed (can't make customers happy).

average repair order (non oil change) in my Honda dealership is about $170. it's over $600 at the VW dealership up the street. and the customer expectations are totally different (Honda customers expect perfect)...…but got to hand it to VW their customers are somehow loyal. and the cars are relatively fun to drive.

Yep , dont get caught out of warranty ....

Originally Posted by Priaptor

I will tell you thing I can't stand about some of these places. I can't stand that you have to first speak to "service representative", wait in their coffee room until he/she is finished with others, then have to sit while he/she makes small talk, writes down all the stuff on the sheets to finally hand over the keys. One of the things I loved about my Shelby was I drove the thing to Ford, just handed over the keys and was gone.

I had so many nightmares with the "free service" with my M3 with BMW I said never again. Rodney was my service guy. Before I could drop the car off I had to see Rodney. My left rear light never worked. I would tell him over and over again with each service FIX THE LIGHT. It never got fixed. At the big service at 36K, I waited for Rodney, told him about the rear light for which once again apologized. I picked the car up, drove about 3 miles just before getting on the TPKE and every dummy light in the car came on. I drove it back to the dealer and Rodney was out to lunch and was told very "nicely" by the receptionist you have to WAIT for Rodney. I exploded and the service manager finally came out. Well three weeks later, after they fixed what they broke, I picked up the car and guess what, the real light still didn't work. That was it for me.

BMW is the worse car company in dah world when it comes to warranty and customer service , shhhesh ....

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Another funny thing about Porsche: nowadays, they are mostly built with VW parts. Cayenne has at least 80% of VW parts. When you take the car apart, you will notice VAG/VW/Audi logos everywhere, from electronic modules to simple connectors. Some parts are even Seat branded (which is a budget VAG brand, like a Skoda, only made in Spain).

Anyway, Porsche has their own part # for everything. So if you go to Porsche dealership to buy say a broken parking sensor, they will give you the Porsche part #, not the real VW part #, which is printed on the actual part. When you know the VW part # for the part you need, you can go to the VW dealership and get it from VW for like ... 60% of the cost. And if that part happen to be used in Skoda or Seat, you can get it from there for like 30% of Porsche cost, lol.

Porsche is 911 , Cayman , boxster everything else is VAG dressed up .........

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Not true. Engine problems on 996/997 models are very common everywhere, including the US. If you haven't heard about the catastrophic engine failure caused by IMS bearing failure, you must have been living under a rock.

Just read the forums. Mean seal leaks, shaft bearing failures, cylinder liner cracks, cylinder scoring, cylinder head cracks, connecting rod bolts failures, oil system inadequacy, engine block casting porosity etc. I could go on and on.

V8s used in Cayenne and Panamera are no better with snapped camshaft adjuster bolts, cylinder scoring and the ongoing transfer box saga.

I have a friend who is a Porsche indy and most of his work are 996/997 engine rebuilds. On the cars that have 40-80k miles and never or rarely have been raced.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-jdpower-market-research-2016-customer-satisfaction-top-placed s-12764.html


Ohhh No say it isn't so ...

https://www.google.com/amp/bgr.com/2...-rankings/amp/

Adam are you now with CNN

As a former owner of a 911 (996 model) I can attest that this model was not very reliable. I suffered the rear main seal issue at least twice plus a damaged transmission in addition to that.
That said, my 997 and 991 models were very reliable.