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Thread: W20SE vs N30?
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November 15, 2021, 04:01 PM #1
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W20SE vs N30?
Has anyone had an opportunity to compare the sonic differences between these two models? Aurender doesn't declare which model is the current flagship, but instead states that they are both at the top of the heap and which is better depends on the listener's taste and chemistry with their system.
Thanks,
Battles
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November 15, 2021, 04:10 PM #2
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
I own both models. I agree that both are at the top of the heap. To me the W20SE has so much finesse. The N30SA is dynamic with slam… you cannot go wrong with either. One does need to think about his/her shelf space. W20SE is one chassis, N30SA is two… I do enjoy the color display on the N30SA but gravitate towards the sound of the W20SE… enjoy
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November 15, 2021, 04:25 PM #3
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
La Dolce Vita,
Thanks for your quick feedback. As I don't have much need for a LED, and in fact enjoy listening in a dim environment, I'm prioritizing sonics. Subject to your guidance, I surmise the other advantage of the W20SE is that it doesn't require a high end power cord to sound its best being battery powered.
Separately, before purchasing the N30, did you consider and/or compare to the Taiko?
Thx,
Battles
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November 15, 2021, 04:56 PM #4
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
This thread may be of interest to you:
Aurender N30SA
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November 15, 2021, 05:02 PM #5
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks Calvin
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November 15, 2021, 05:06 PM #6
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November 15, 2021, 05:16 PM #7
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Also this is a review of the N30 (change to English on upper right side).
One reviewer - it may be this one - who owned the W20SE went ahead and bought the N30.
High-end Internet - HIFICLUB - ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? Aurender N30 ?? ???
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November 15, 2021, 05:21 PM #8
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your observations, which are very logical. One would expect the W20SE to sound a little sweeter and more nuanced due to the total lack of AC noise due to being battery powered. However, one would expect the N30SA to have superior dynamics due to its robust separate power supply, which can deliver greater peak current than the battery power supply. I guess it really comes down to personal preference and the type of music you listen to. Smooth jazz, acoustic and piano probably really excel on the W20SE, while hard rock, big band and full orchestra probably excel on the N30SA.
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 15, 2021, 05:41 PM #9
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November 15, 2021, 05:53 PM #10
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 15, 2021, 06:00 PM #11
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks Ken. I too own the MSB Select with separate power bases and am using the MSB network renderer module as my Roon endpoint...or more specifically: QNAP Server running Roon Sever > Commercial Cisco Switch > Fiber > EtherRegen w/ upgraded PSU and external clock > Gobel Ethernet Cable > MSB Network Renderer v2 Module.
As I read posts on the various forums, I continue to hear that I'm leaving quite a bit of sonic upside on the table by not utilizing an audiophile server and MSB's pro USB module. Hence my interest in the Aurender W20SE/N30SA or perhaps the Taiko. That being said, I'm loathe to drop $20K+ on an audiophile server plus the additive cost of isolation and reference USB/power cords all to conclude that the sonic difference between my current set up vs. the new was only negligible. I see you that you are using the network renderer module on your Select and am wondering if you've already gone through this comparison? If so, would you mind sharing your conclusion?
Thanks,
Battles
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November 15, 2021, 06:00 PM #12
Re: W20SE vs N30?
"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 15, 2021, 06:12 PM #13
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi Battles,
I totally understand where you’re coming from as we are very much in the same position. I have not yet had the opportunity to compare the Roon Nucleus + to the Aurenders or Taiko Extreme. However, people who I know and trust have done the comparison and tell me both the Aurenders and Taiko Extreme are significantly better than my Nucleus +. What I can tell you is I recently purchased a lightly used MSB UMT-V Signature Transport and it blows away the Nucleus + in every way. Consequently, I’ve been spinning a lot more CDs lately. Additionally, if you don’t want to break the bank, you could always purchase the N20, which is supposed to be excellent, and add 16TB of SSD to it. I hope this helps.
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 15, 2021, 06:36 PM #14
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks Ken! Once upon a time I owned a full MSB Diamond IV+ Stack with the UMT+ and separate signature power base...I should have kept it! Are you using the USB output of the Nucleus+ into the Pro-USB module of the Select, or does the Nucleus+ offer the option to stream to the MSB's network renderer module? If you're doing the latter, have you tried isolating the Nucleus via fiber w/ a device like the EtherRegen?
Digital Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and EtherRegen w/ Upgraded PSU+External Clock
Analog Source: Spiral Groove SG1.1 w/ Centroid Tonearm; Airtight Opus-1, Ortofon Anna; Sutherland BIG LOCO
Amp: MSB S202
Speakers: Göbel Divin Marquis
Cables: Göbel Loom
Power: Torus Wall Mount + Shunyata Denali, Nordost QKORE Ground Unit
Isolation: HRS, Symposium, Wellfloat, etc.
Headfi: Woo Audio WA33 Elite, Hifiman Susvara, Nordost Heimdall 2
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November 15, 2021, 08:15 PM #15
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi Battles,
Yes, I am still using the Roon Nucleus + with the Renderer V2 Input Module and it sounds excellent, although not nearly as good as my MSB Transport. I really like being able to adjust the volume through Roon on my IPad. I haven’t tried the EtherRegen but I did use the Gigafoil V4 for awhile. If I were to purchase an Aurender or Taiko Extreme, I would move to the Pro USB/Pro ISL Input Module, as USB is the preferred connection on those servers.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 15, 2021, 08:30 PM #16
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks Ken. You make a good point about volume control from the iPad, of which neither the Pro USB/ISL provide, but the Render module does. That would be missed.
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November 16, 2021, 01:27 PM #17
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 XTRM, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Tosca arm; SME 3012R arm, Ortofon Diamond Anna; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Taiko Audio Extreme> Lampizator Horizon, Oppo UDP-203;
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November 16, 2021, 03:34 PM #18
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Jim
D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest
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November 20, 2021, 01:34 PM #19
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi La Dolce Vita, et al,
I’m down to the short strokes of deciding between the N30SA and the W20SE to feed my MSB Select DAC. Will likely decide in the next 24 hours. Mike’s been helpful in sharing his opinion as have others. Saying that, for those who’ve owned or auditioned both models, and recognizing price is essentially equal as is sonic performance, are there attributes about the N30SA (besides the pretty screen) that make it a more compelling purchase after considering the need for an additional isolation platform to separate the N30SA’s CPU and power chassis, a reference power cord that is not necessary on the W20SE, an additional set of aftermarket isolation footers, etc? Seems like it requires much more equipment in tow to perform at its best. Ideally, I’d have the opportunity to demo these units in my system and decide for myself, but unfortunately I do not.
Thanks again,
BattlesDigital Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and EtherRegen w/ Upgraded PSU+External Clock
Analog Source: Spiral Groove SG1.1 w/ Centroid Tonearm; Airtight Opus-1, Ortofon Anna; Sutherland BIG LOCO
Amp: MSB S202
Speakers: Göbel Divin Marquis
Cables: Göbel Loom
Power: Torus Wall Mount + Shunyata Denali, Nordost QKORE Ground Unit
Isolation: HRS, Symposium, Wellfloat, etc.
Headfi: Woo Audio WA33 Elite, Hifiman Susvara, Nordost Heimdall 2
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November 20, 2021, 01:41 PM #20
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
It sounds like you’re answering your own question. :-)
The N30SA is awesome - but so is the W20SE. Do you want to go to the added expense of the isolation platform, the power cord, etc., when you’re splitting hairs with respect to performance?
There is no right or wrong answer here - it’s a personal decision based on what the heart wants and on your budget.
You cannot go wrong. Enjoy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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November 20, 2021, 02:28 PM #21
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks La Dolce Vita. Indeed it sounds like I posted a rhetorical question! Knowing what you know now having lived with both models, would you now rather own two W20SEs if you could do it all over again? If not, why?
I guess what’s throwing me is that when reading the Korean gentleman’s review he doesn’t seem to flinch at purchasing the N30 over the W20SE stating that the latter is more of a pimped out version of the W20, their old platform, and that the soundstage of the N30 is 1.5x that of the W20SE and has greater inner soundstage detail. However, it doesn’t sound like the “sonic gulf” in performance he describes is heard by your ears.
In my particular situation, I do have an extra HRS platform and reference power cord available, which makes my decision harder. Having said that, it’s a head scratcher as to why anyone would opt to purchase the N30SA over the W20SE if the former requires an additional ~$10K investment in reference equipment to sound as good as the W20SE.
Again, your thoughts are much appreciated!
BattlesDigital Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and EtherRegen w/ Upgraded PSU+External Clock
Analog Source: Spiral Groove SG1.1 w/ Centroid Tonearm; Airtight Opus-1, Ortofon Anna; Sutherland BIG LOCO
Amp: MSB S202
Speakers: Göbel Divin Marquis
Cables: Göbel Loom
Power: Torus Wall Mount + Shunyata Denali, Nordost QKORE Ground Unit
Isolation: HRS, Symposium, Wellfloat, etc.
Headfi: Woo Audio WA33 Elite, Hifiman Susvara, Nordost Heimdall 2
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November 21, 2021, 03:02 AM #22
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi Battles,
I would encourage you to take a quick trip over to Suncoast Audio and do a head-to-head comparison of the N30SA and W20SE. After doing the audition, your decision should become clear and the guess work will be taken out of the equation.
Best of Luck,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 21, 2021, 05:19 AM #23
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2
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November 21, 2021, 06:02 AM #24
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Does N30 support dual AES output?
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November 21, 2021, 08:17 AM #25
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi Olaf,
I totally agree with you that the preferred connection for Aurender + DCS is AES, but for Aurender + MSB (Battles has the Select DAC like me), the preferred connection is USB due to MSB’s superb Pro USB/Pro ISL optical connection, which uses MSB’s latest technology.
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 23, 2021, 01:43 PM #26
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Hi All and Happy Thanksgiving to those of us who are stateside. Just to catch everyone up, I decided to pull the trigger on the N30SA. This was based on a number of conversations I had with those who’ve had direct exposure to the model. No one expressed that it was better than the W20SE, just different, however my instinct is that the newer model should have greater residual value to the extent one were to apply it to the cost of the W30 if and when it is released. Really appreciate everyone’s generous feedback on the W20SE vs N30SA as I narrowed my purchasing decision.
Next step is step is deciding how far to go in isolating the N30SA between the network router and its network input via Sotm, Melco, EtherRegen etc. and whether it’s worth investing in a USB reclocker between the N30SA’s USB output and the USB input of MSB’s ProUSB module. One would hope that the N30SA, being Aurender’s newest flagship model, has improved upon cleaning up the network signal coming into it and the USB signal coming out to it so that another $10K Invesment in input and output signal conditioning wouldn’t yield a significant sonic improvement. However, who knows until the audio gods on WBF have posted their conclusions.
Thanks,
Battles
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November 23, 2021, 06:30 PM #27
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November 23, 2021, 07:12 PM #28
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Congrats Battles on the N30SA! You should have stellar performance running the N30SA to the Pro USB/Pro ISL Input Module on the Select DAC. Top of the line all the way.
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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November 23, 2021, 07:24 PM #29
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
Thanks La Dolce Vita & Ken!
La Dolce Vita, have you experimented with different audiophile switch configurations and/or USB reclocking before / after the N30SA’s signal path? If you have, that might save me some legwork.
Thanks again,
Blake
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November 23, 2021, 07:38 PM #30
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Congrats and good luck. I recently got Aurender N20 and love it with SPDIF out to Esoteric K-01XD. When I was using Antipodes S30 to K-01XD via USB out, I used Ideon 3R Mastertime USB Reclocker and it made noticeable difference, and could not live without it.
My digital side is fiber optic > Sotm SNH (Shunyata sigma) > English electric 8S (sablon 2020) > Eno acoustics . I had etheregen but in this chain, it did not make much difference (despite using excellent power supply- Uptone JS-2).
Other options to consider is Melco S-100 and M12 switch. Since I am happy with my above set up, I am not exploring newer options for now, but as you know, in our hobby, promises can be kept only for few months, at best a year.Fyne Audio F1-12, Octave RE 320, Aries Cerat Incito S, Aries Cerat Kassandra II ref, Aurender N20
Townshend supertweeters, Sotm SNH 10G ethernet switch, Nordost QKORE 3 grounding
Skogrand Tchaikovsky, Skogrand Wagner, Triangle-art Isis, hemingway Z core beta, ansuz C2, Echole omnia, Audience frontrow, SR sigma 2, Combax Hijiri million, PAD diamond, Sablon.
Torus RM 20 power conditioner, furutech wall socket
Vicoustics and GIK acoustics, Solid tech rack of silence, Adona zero GXT-3, Iso-acoustics Gaia1, Townshend platform, Alto extreme, Stillpoints, Symposium
Secondary system: B&W 702 S2 with Naim Uniti atom.
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November 23, 2021, 08:07 PM #31
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Re: W20SE vs N30?
The W20SE is timeless, something just right about it (I did not hear the N30).
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November 24, 2021, 07:59 AM #32
Re: W20SE vs N30?
Congrats Battles/Blake! The Aurender N30SA is a terrific music server/streamer.
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter