The N100 Owners Thread

[CDLehner]

Let's get this party started!

[mep]

Uh, what's an N100??

[Mike]

http://www.aurender.com/page/n100


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[Steve]

Very nice. DoP v1.2 too. Looking forward to hearing others impressions.

[Elberoth]

OK, sorry. My understanding was you got the N100 already.

[Mike]

Nope. Chris the OP has one.


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[FlexibleAudio]

Wow, Mike once again you have my attention.......the N100 or the Sonore SSD are both on my short list for different reasons??????

Regarding the Aurender, their web site explains a lot, but I am trying to understand how the N100 clock and phase control architecture compares to the S10's. (I think these two parameters are a big part of the S10's magic.) The web site explains the S10 uses an OCXO clock which I know to be excellent. Also the S10 uses a custom FPGA Digital Phase-Locked Loop System. The site is silent on these parameters for the N100. At some point it would be great to find out if the N100's clock and phase control system are comparable to the S10's or if the N100 represents a step down given the price difference.

Part of me wonders if the clock and phase control in the N100 are on par or even better to whats in the S10 because some of the other parameters (at least based on the web site specs) appear to better on the N100 like:

1) USB with noise free circuitry borrowed from the W20 versus standard circuit(?) USB in S10.
2) Linear power for both digital and audio versus smps for the digital side in the S10.
3) 4 GB Main Memory versus 2 GB in S10.
4) Solid State Cache 120 GB versus 64 GB in S10.

Any insights you get would be welcome.

Thanks,

[Elberoth]

Regarding the Aurender, their web site explains a lot, but I am trying to understand how the N100 clock and phase control architecture compares to the S10's. (I think these two parameters are a big part of the S10's magic.) The web site explains the S10 uses an OCXO clock which I know to be excellent. Also the S10 uses a custom FPGA Digital Phase-Locked Loop System. The site is silent on these parameters for the N100. At some point it would be great to find out if the N100's clock and phase control system are comparable to the S10's or if the N100 represents a step down given the price difference.

The clock is only for the SPDIF out on the S10. No SPDIF out on the N100 (it is USB out only), so no clock.



Hope this helps.

[rww]

Crucial question that somebody somewhere really needs to answer... which sounds better the N100 or the X100?.. or at least describe the sonic differences.

They have different power supplies so there is probably a difference in sound quality.

Somebody has tried here, but the translation isn't good: Google Translate

[Elberoth]

Withouh hearing both, my vote would go towards the N100.

Linear PSU and no noise generating spinning drive.

But the devil lies in the details.

[rww]

That's what logic is telling me too... but, the poorly translated review I posted above appears to indicate the N has smaller soundstage and less warmth than the X.

This is 'doing my head in' as I want to buy right now, but I want to buy the right one.

;-)

[Steve]

RWW...You should find a dealer and listen to both. It would be worth the train ride if that's what it takes. Besides, you would be there in a jiffy.

[CDLehner]

Mike - how is the app working ?

Any problems with reading the CD artwork from the NAS for example ?

That is the biggest surprise, with the unit so far. I was disappointed...that it wasn't just "plug-n-play"; with regard to cover-art and meta-data, from the NAS.

Here is how I conveyed it to Mike:

- TIDAL doesn't need a PC running, any kind of media server.
- For your own files, on an NAS...it doesn't need any media server; for "folder view" playback.
- For your own files, on an NAS...it does need Aurender's Media Manager running; if you want Meta-data, cover art, etc.
- For your own files, on local USB...it doesn't need AMM running; for "folder view" playback.
- For your own files, on local USB...you need to run AMM once; if you want Meta-data, cover-art, etc.

Clear as mud?

I have yet to try the AMM.

[FlexibleAudio]

The clock is only for the SPDIF out on the S10. No SPDIF out on the N100 (it is USB out only), so no clock.



Hope this helps.

Thank you Adam. As a neophyte, I was under the mistaken understanding that asynchronous connections (usb or i2s) still need a clock in the server/streamer that plays an important role at the server/streamer, but is controlled by the clock in the DAC. This is not the case?

[FlexibleAudio]

Withouh hearing both, my vote would go towards the N100.

Linear PSU and no noise generating spinning drive.

But the devil lies in the details.

This makes sense to me. Stream lining the digital side by excluding a spinner both reduces the noise of the spinner (which admittedly is already minimized by caching) but also eliminates the need for smps which to me might be a big deal.

[Mike]

That is the biggest surprise, with the unit so far. I was disappointed...that it wasn't just "plug-n-play"; with regard to cover-art and meta-data, from the NAS.

Here is how I conveyed it to Mike:

- TIDAL doesn't need a PC running, any kind of media server.
- For your own files, on an NAS...it doesn't need any media server; for "folder view" playback.
- For your own files, on an NAS...it does need Aurender's Media Manager running; if you want Meta-data, cover art, etc.
- For your own files, on local USB...it doesn't need AMM running; for "folder view" playback.
- For your own files, on local USB...you need to run AMM once; if you want Meta-data, cover-art, etc.

Clear as mud?

I have yet to try the AMM.

I think I can live with AMM running somewhere on a computer. Sort of a "set and forget" type of thing.

[CDLehner]

I think I can live with AMM running somewhere on a computer. Sort of a "set and forget" type of thing.

I agree Mike; as long as it's stable.

That was a point of contention, for some; with the Squeezebox. That you needed the LMS (Logitech Media Server) running. They were like "you mean I have to have a computer on all the time"? LOL; I'm like "who doesn't have a computer on...somewhere...all the time anyway". Of course, maybe not everyone does; and in fairness...this is going back a few years.

The LMS was fairly stable; but it was a PITA when it would crash. You'd have to get up from your comfy listening chair, and do "computer" shite. At least with AMM, you can still play music; you'd just lose meta-data, etc.

I'm still hopeful...that down the road; Aurender can find a way to host it, at the player. That way...it's 100% independent.

[Elberoth]

It is a common problem with the Linux player they are using. Not sure they can solve it, unless Linux guys do.

I'm surprised it had been dragging for so long ... the problem has been known for years. It is like with Windows, who doesn't support USB Audio 2.0, when everybody else does.

[Etunes]

Please pardon the stupid questions but I'm a bit unclear. NAS to computer running Aurender software then out to DAC? Can the software be installed on the NAS?

Thx

[Mike]

Please pardon the stupid questions but I'm a bit unclear. NAS to computer running Aurender software then out to DAC? Can the software be installed on the NAS?

Thx

You are correct on the first part. As for the software, my understanding is that it needs to be installed on a computer. AURENDER - Reference Music System

Note the PC version is coming soon. Mac version is out now.

[CDLehner]

Please pardon the stupid questions but I'm a bit unclear. NAS to computer running Aurender software then out to DAC? Can the software be installed on the NAS?

Thx

Mike is right; for NAS, you need to install AMM on a PC/Mac. NASs don't have an OS.

Now I want to be clear...because it is easy to misunderstand this kind of thing, and then people will be going around saying "you have to install AMM to use the N100". That's not exactly true. You need to install it, if you want pretty album covers, and meta-data, etc. If you're OK, with just browsing through a folder-structure and selecting your files; you DON'T need it.

Also...again; supposedly, if you're not using NAS for storage...but attaching a local drive to the N100. My understanding is, you need to hook the drive up to a PC/MAC...run AMM once; and then attach it to the N100, and you'll have cover-art, meta-data, etc.

My (educated) guess: running AMM that one time, loads all the files on to the local drive...so the N100 can read them. Which likely means...every time you add new files, you'll need to run AMM again; to update the info.

[Elberoth]

Thank you Adam. As a neophyte, I was under the mistaken understanding that asynchronous connections (usb or i2s) still need a clock in the server/streamer that plays an important role at the server/streamer, but is controlled by the clock in the DAC. This is not the case?

There is a clock on computer USB side - usually 12MHz, and some even say that it's performace does matter even if you use a DAC which has an asynchronous USB input.

However, the OCXO you have reffered to and probably seen inside the Aurender S10 (and possibly W20) is dedicated to SPDIF board.

[FlexibleAudio]

There is a clock on computer USB side - usually 12MHz, and some even say that it's performace does matter even if you use a DAC which has an asynchronous USB input.

However, the OCXO you have reffered to and probably seen inside the Aurender S10 (and possibly W20) is dedicated to SPDIF board.

So this explains why Aurender makes no reference to the clock in the 100N and one would assume it is not at the OCXO level; but the question regarding its impact on SQ sounds like it is still somewhat of a debate. Since it up for question, one would presume if it has an impact it must be quite small.

[Elberoth]

There is a nice post (#3) on CA regarding the importance of computer clock, written by John Swenson:

Uptone Audio Regen

I know that Jcat paid a lot of attention to clock quality when designing their USB card, and so did Paul Pang, who was the first to employ OCXO on am PCIe/USB card (although I have serious doubts that the wires he uses are impedance optimised ... which kind of defies the purpose of OCXO IMO).

[FlexibleAudio]

There is a nice post (#3) on CA regarding the importance of computer clock, written by John Swenson:

Uptone Audio Regen

I know that Jcat paid a lot of attention to clock quality when designing their USB card, and so did Paul Pang, who was the first to employ OCXO on am PCIe/USB card (although I have serious doubts that the wires he uses are impedance optimised ... which kind of defies the purpose of OCXO IMO).

Adam, I see John's comments post in #3 provides some good information about the importance of power isolation to minimize USB noise caused by data packets inducing current in the PDN (which is very relative to my understanding of the advantages of i2s (non-packet format) over USB (packet)), but I did not see a reference by John to clock importance in the computer versus the dac. Did I miss something or was it a different link?

[Elberoth]

Not directly. But an USB hub (and the Regen works as single output USB hub) is build of only a few parts, and the clock is one of the more important ones. At least that is my understanding. I may be wrong though.

[Midnight Rambler]

I just received my N100 this week. I installed a 1TB SSD. Still waiting on support to format it. I used AMM to index my music on a USB drive which is ripped to WAV (tagged with INFO tags). It read every tag and picked up the covers and transmitted it to the N100. I then plugged the USB in the back of the N100. I am able to view my whole collection on my iPad. My goal is to convert/re-rip everything to uncompressed FLAC and get it on the SSD. The USB drive is an easy interim step. Tidal integration works perfectly. I can't listen just yet as my Grimm active speakers are set to arrive on 3/25. I will certainly post my impressions when up and going.

This is a huge system transition for me; a minimalist system that you can't tweak other than room treatments. My old system was: Linn Klimax DS > FM Acoustics 245 > FM Acoustics 411 MK 2 > Magico Mini 2. Often in this hobby you do silly things. I'm betting on no this time (I hope).

[MDP]

Welcome to AS Midnight Rambler !!

[astrotoy]

I was very impressed hearing the prototype Aurender N20 a few weeks ago. Like the W20 it has dual wire, so I can connect my PM Model Two to it. The software was very user friendly, including sorting by sample rate, since the main disadvantage of the Model Two is that you have to manually change sample rates. Not a big issue for me, since most of my digital files are 192/24, the 10,000 albums I have ripped from vinyl and R2R. What is very nice (also may apply to other Aurender models) is that you can have both front and back covers and inserts, very nice for vinyl rips. I understand that the production model of the N20 should be available later this year, maybe early next year. I hope to have the prototype in my home for a few weeks later this year to try things out.

Besides the sound quality and ease of use, I was also impressed by how the software interacted with several different NAS drives.

The only disadvantage to the Aurender is that it only does two channel, so I will be keeping my Mac mini to use with my Exasound E28 for mch files.

When I get the N20, my daughter and son-in-law and grandkids will be getting my BADA2 for their system (upgrading from their Meridian Explorer DAC!)

Larry

[CDLehner]

I just received my N100 this week. I installed a 1TB SSD. Still waiting on support to format it. I used AMM to index my music on a USB drive which is ripped to WAV (tagged with INFO tags). It read every tag and picked up the covers and transmitted it to the N100. I then plugged the USB in the back of the N100. I am able to view my whole collection on my iPad. My goal is to convert/re-rip everything to uncompressed FLAC and get it on the SSD. The USB drive is an easy interim step. Tidal integration works perfectly. I can't listen just yet as my Grimm active speakers are set to arrive on 3/25. I will certainly post my impressions when up and going.

This is a huge system transition for me; a minimalist system that you can't tweak other than room treatments. My old system was: Linn Klimax DS > FM Acoustics 245 > FM Acoustics 411 MK 2 > Magico Mini 2. Often in this hobby you do silly things. I'm betting on no this time (I hope).

MR...I was just about to ask; if I was the only one, with an N100 so far. Good to have some company!

Good to hear, the AMM worked as advertised. When you say you're "waiting on support, to format your SSD"; do you mean Aurender support?

I would have thought, they'd be kind of uncooperative; to hear dealers tell it...you're not "supposed" to install an SSD yourself.

[Midnight Rambler]

Yes Aurender support. The dealer said it was ok to install the SSD - he even sent pictures.
Not sure what they do. The SSD has some music related folders on it that were likely installed after I rebooted. The N100 shows up in the finder of my mac, but I can't log into it.
I got an automated reply that they are at a trade show.

[Freekick]

How long does the AMM take to scan your music stores in the NAS? Mine has scanned for over 10 hours and not complete when I go to work this morning. It is horrible if I have to scan again every time I add songs to NAS.


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[Freekick]

MR, do you mean that the SSD cannot be used right after installation? I saw an installation video in YouTube and find that it is easy to do so and planning to install one myself. But it may not be the case if it needs Aurender Support to do something after hardware installation. My dealer will charge me around USD70 for the installation (excluding the SSD).

[Midnight Rambler]

It took less than 10 minutes to scan my USB drive of 335 Gb and transmit to the N100. There is a progress indicator to follow it.

The ssd shows up on the iPad app right away but yes tech support needs to do something to it. They contacted me earlier and are doing it now. Seems to take a while. Installing the drive was easy. You do need the correct Allen key and screws for the ssd. There is double sided tape that makes it hard to pull the cover off. It appears to serve some thermal purpose.

[Elberoth]

I was very impressed hearing the prototype Aurender N20 a few weeks ago. Like the W20 it has dual wire, so I can connect my PM Model Two to it. The software was very user friendly, including sorting by sample rate, since the main disadvantage of the Model Two is that you have to manually change sample rates. Not a big issue for me, since most of my digital files are 192/24, the 10,000 albums I have ripped from vinyl and R2R. What is very nice (also may apply to other Aurender models) is that you can have both front and back covers and inserts, very nice for vinyl rips. I understand that the production model of the N20 should be available later this year, maybe early next year. I hope to have the prototype in my home for a few weeks later this year to try things out.

Besides the sound quality and ease of use, I was also impressed by how the software interacted with several different NAS drives.

The only disadvantage to the Aurender is that it only does two channel, so I will be keeping my Mac mini to use with my Exasound E28 for mch files.

When I get the N20, my daughter and son-in-law and grandkids will be getting my BADA2 for their system (upgrading from their Meridian Explorer DAC!)

Larry

Larry,

That is some very interesting info. Do you know what are the main differencies between the W20 and N20 ?

[Mike]

Am I missing something? I don't see an N20. I know of an N10, an N100, but no N20. I'm getting an N10 for my Devialet 400, when available.

[CPP]

Am I missing something? I don't see an N20. I know of an N10, an N100, but no N20. I'm getting an N10 for my Devialet 400, when available.

I am wondering if he meant the w20

[Midnight Rambler]

When transferring music to the SSD on the N100, does one drag the files to the drive and the unit sorts them based upon tags or is it best to drag the file to the folder of the appropriate genre?

Thanks in advance.

[Mike]

When transferring music to the SSD on the N100, does one drag the files to the drive and the unit sorts them based upon tags or is it best to drag the file to the folder of the appropriate genre?

Thanks in advance.

My understanding was that the storage on the N100 was for caching music from a NAS and not for permanent storage.

[Midnight Rambler]

The N100 has the capability for a 1 TB internal SSD which I installed. The unit comes with the necessary SATA cable.
My collection is not huge [< 400 GB currently] so this makes perfect sense for me. Between Tidal streaming and the internal storage this was the perfect solution for me at least.
Getting ready to start moving the files over and I wanted to do it right the first time.

[Freekick]

AMM was still scanning after I came back home after work. I stopped it and open a new account in my NAS for the N100 than run the scan again. It took 2 hours to complete this time. Its good to control with all the metadata in my iPad. However, all the metadata disappeared without warning when I checked the "High Resolution Cover" N100 replace my database with a new scan in its empty HDD......

[CDLehner]

My understanding was that the storage on the N100 was for caching music from a NAS and not for permanent storage.

Mike...the SSD it comes with (120G), is for cache. I think MR is referring to the optional storage drive.

[astrotoy]

I am wondering if he meant the w20

The N20 is a prototype. It is planned for release in the next few months. Like the W20 is has dual wire capability. My consultant has the prototype (he may be the only one, not sure). NAS capability with dual wire. He also has a W20 and some of the others in the N line from Aurender. Having both a couple of big NAS drives and a PM Model Two (which uses dual wire to get to 192/24), the N20 would be perfect for my needs.

Larry

[skolis]

The N20 is a prototype. . NAS capability with dual wire.
Larry

what is "dual wire"?

[astrotoy]

what is "dual wire"?

Some DAC's require two wires to work at 192 or 176/24, including my Pacific Microsonics Model Two. I think there are others (I'm sure someone knows some of these). Thus dual wire. I have two sets of wires running from my computer (Merging Tech Mykerinos Card) to my PM Model Two so I can rip and play at 192/24 or 176/24. Only one wire is needed to rip and play at 96/24 or 88/24 or below.

Hope this explains it.

Larry

[Mark Jones]

I'm selling the line too, only dealer in Ontario at the moment.

Can't wait to get my X100L demo and then a couple of months down the road the new N10.

Mike what piece do you have on demo?

[Mike]

I'm selling the line too, only dealer in Ontario at the moment.

Can't wait to get my X100L demo and then a couple of months down the road the new N10.

Mike what piece do you have on demo?

Congrats Mark!

[Bobolaclune]

Congrats Mark! It's an excellent product line. I'm getting the N10. Should be out soon. I may also get a N100 to boot.

Mike (and Mark) - I spoke to Aurender and they advised the N10 will be priced (slightly) higher than the S10 and is not expected to hit NA till June/July. I'm thinking $7500 list

Shodhan

[Mark Jones]

Hey, hi Shodhan,

Yeah that is what they told me too, but you never really know until the day comes. Regardless I'm looking forward to it, did you happen to ask what size the internal cache will be? Think I'll fire off an email about that.

[Bobolaclune]

Hey Mark

I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on this - there is almost no information on their website , none on the interweb . Feels like they're still working their way through the specs. No idea on the cache ..

Cheers