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  1. #1

    Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I already presented to you my system here

    Hi from portugal

    but I decided to open this thread to highlight some aspects that, in my opinion, are very important to achieve a good sound reproduction. Beside the quality of the gear of course, it is clear to me that depends a lot from 3 factors:

    - Electricity
    - EMI and RFI interference
    - (Micro)Vibrations

    So, it all starts with the fuel of the system, the electricity. From my experience, a dedicated line makes a huge difference. In my case with a 4 mm cable. Of course your electrician man gonna say that 2.5 is enough. Believe me 4 mm is better. And maybe more will be better but I can not guarantee because I have not tried.

    After that, switching the circuit breaker through a fuse holder was a clear step forward. What's more, this will allow you to do fuse-rolling and try the fuse you like. They will sound all different, believe me!


    Many times i think i probably was not fair in evaluating some equipment that went through my house when I did not have this dedicated line and the fuse system. I tell you, if our goal is a wider range of frequencies, with clean and crystalline treble, where different cymbals sound different and is obvious the crash of metal against metal, these modifications where everything is born are the right and necessary step.

    Check out the video



    (to be continued)
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  2. #2
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hello Spock. So many people just don't get the importance of clean power. I was very upset at a Stereophile article where the reviewer said he plugged his equipment into a Home Depot power supply. That is a sure way to limit the performance of all your gear. I am an electrician by trade. I have a decent stereo here in the USA. I would not say I have done a comprehensive study on power but I have done enough experimenting to know what works to improve sound. I am not sure why going from a CB to a fuse is giving positive results in your setup. In my experience, less is better as far as connections. I consider a fuse 2 more connections. You have the terminations to the fuse block and you have the clamps around the fuse ends. I would believe you are using the fuse to tune the color of the music to work with your gear.

    I do very much agree, bigger wire is better. I have experimented with 10AWG solid core wire and stranded wire ran in either PVC or Steel. I have also experimented with a 10 AWG OFC cord direct from my panel to a power distribution box. I do not have cord ends on the distribution box. It is clamped to the end and the wires are terminated with split bolts. This was by far the best installation in my setup. I have professionally installed a similar setup for a client with very positive results.

    Grounding is also king. You need at minimum a UFER ground at your house. Otherwise a chemically potted ground bar is necessary.

    Just a few observations I have made while tuning my system.

  3. #3
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Welcome to the forum forum, thank you for joining.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE

    NAD C 658 streamer.

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    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  4. #4

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Hello Spock. I am not sure why going from a CB to a fuse is giving positive results in your setup. I would believe you are using the fuse to tune the color of the music to work with your gear.
    Hello kingrex
    Thanks for your comments.

    I really do not know how it works. But it works. Maybe, just maybe, the fuse is acting as a filter as you say. But in a positive way.
    Let me tell you that before buying this “audiophile” fuse, I tried a regular one. Even so, it was a clear up grade to the circuit breaker. So this made me want to go further and try the “audiophile” option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Grounding is also king. You need at minimum a UFER ground at your house. Otherwise a chemically potted ground bar is necessary.
    I ´m glad that you mention the grounding, because I forgot to say that I have a dedicated ground to the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Just a few observations I have made while tuning my system.
    You´ re welcome. Thanks

  5. #5

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Some people say that a power cable don´t matter because is the last meter in the long way electricity has to travel to our house. I say they matter, because they are not the last meter, they are the first! Or maybe less than a meter. My pre and power cables are half of a meter, and yes, it´s enough to make difference.

    After trying some brands (*) like Supra, QED; Furutech; Analysis; RodFig (Portuguese), Stealth, Gigawatt; Nordost, none seems to satisfy. All of them have positive and negative effects on the sound, so, i decided to try to make my own power cables because trying more expensive market cables was out of question ($$$$$). And it´s complicated, believe me. The conductor makes difference and heavier gauge is better. A thin cable can work ok in the source and not so good in the amplifier. With heavier gauge, it works well in both cases. So, from my experience, a good power cable must work equally in every equipment. But, maybe more important than the metal, is the construction. The distance between the conductors, the shielding, etc. Talking about shielding, there are some opinions who says that we don´t need to shield power cords. From my experience, we need shield in all types of cables. But it must be careful aplicated or it can have negative interference with electromagnetic field created by electricity. Trial and error brought me to a good result.



    Other important thing (in all the cables) is the termination. A bad connection can destroy a good cable. And, im my opinion, forget plated silver or rhodium. Yes, I assume my fascination for gold! And is not to the eyes only, no, gold give a much correct timbre.
    After trying similar ones from Furutech, my option are these from Elecaudio.



    http://www.elecaudio.com/fr/

    So, power cables are fundamental to assure a good sound, especially without compression. Some audiophiles are always talking about bad recordings full of compression. Of course they exist. But most of them do not know what a good power cable can do about. A long time ago, in a portuguese forum I beg for examples of bad and compressed recordings. Someone says “black album” from Metallica.
    Wow! Where is the compression in this fantastic recording?



    (*) the most expensive about 750 €.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hello Spock. Did you make the cable in the pix. They look very professional. I did not see anything about the conductor or the geometry. Can you share some on what you made. I tried to make cables. I bought a few different brands. In the end I bought 2 cables that are only 14 awg for my amps that work well for the price, $125 per cable. They bested my Cullen cables that are 10awg. I still have some Siltech and Signal Cable to preamps and phono stages.

  7. #7

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Hello Spock. Did you make the cable in the pix. They look very professional.
    Thanks but that´s the easy part. As you know, we can buy all the stuff that provides this good looking on the internet (cables, connectors, sleeves, etc).

    https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/fiche...mm-p-6843.html

    https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/nylon...mm-p-5269.html

    https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/gaine...mm-p-3625.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Can you share some on what you made.
    Speaking about the power cable... A friend of mine told long time ago that we can make a good power cable using speaker cable. We can easily buy a cheap but good copper speaker cable. Now i´m using Kimber and audioquest.
    About the geometry… I do the individual shielding in each conductor (phase, neutral and earth). Under the shielding sleeve I put another thin cotton sleeve to prevent that the shielding sleeve do not touch the conductor. All the shielding sleeves are connected to earth in the schuko side. Finally I put another individual cotton sleeve to prevent the cross talk between each other. A slight twist to ensure flexibility and the rest is just cosmetic to provide the final looking...

    Thanks. Have a good new Year!

  8. #8

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    The source.



    When i bought the Lyngdorf CD1 i was looking for a neutral sound. Could this exist at an affordable price?
    When i had the chance to listen to the Lyngdorf, I thought: that´s it! I heard some other players in the same league of prices, but when compared with Lyngdorf, all of them seemed to have some kind of veil, or at least, some kind of sonic signature. The Lyngdorf it had (has) an open but not aggressive or fatiguing sound. So I bought it.
    With time, I started to find the sound a little “cold”. Then I discover fuses, and their influence in the sound (I´ll talk later about fuses – can they be the missing link in audio chain?), so I change the fuse in the power zone of the CD and the sound became more natural and full body. Of course if we want a more refined sound we must pay for that. But at this price, i´m still very satisfied.

    About 3 months ago, the optical group died. But thanks to the excellent service of the Portugal dealer of Lyngdorf, the CD player went to Denmark where they brought him again to live.

    So, this is a moment of rebirth.

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  9. #9
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Seems okay to me

    Congratulations. That’s great.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

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    Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.

  10. #10

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Seems okay to me
    Thanks. I hope for many years.



    Beyond the fuse and still talking about fine tuning…
    As you can see in the photos below, the SPDIF output is covered. The plug is wrapped with a piece of metal that is connected to ground.
    Do not ask me why… I just did as someone told me to do, and it really works. This has improved the resolution and cleaned the sound.








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  11. #11
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Do you have anyhing such as an Entreq grounding box you are bonding this too.

  12. #12

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hi!
    I use a schuko connector just for grounding.



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  13. #13

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Ortofon 7NX- AIC X1 Premium (RCA)

    7NX-AIC X1… What´s that? I always have to do copy / paste of the name, because I can´t memorize it. I think the one who thought to this name deserved with a wet cloth in the face until it gets dry.

    Since I noticed the differences in cables, I became obsessed with this passive component, for I wondered if the differences in performance of the active equipment were so obvious, how could I judge them? Only with the best cable I could be able to do it, but what would be the best? What was the limit? Of course there was the limit of my pocket. But, in time, from what I read in several audio forums, we should spend in cables no more than 10% of the total value of the system. So, in no time a cable could cost more than active components. So I tried several interconnect cables from different brands like QED, Atlas, Transparent, Nordost; Mission; Kimber; etc., etc. One day the dealer of Ortofon let me try out at home this 7NX-AIC X1 Premium It was an expensive cable, but he had just received it, and wanted to know my opinion. The cable cost then € 900 (later it came to cost € 1,450), and by comparison, I had at the time a Marantz SA7001 as CD player, which had cost me close to 700 €. The power at time was a Roksan Caspian that had cost me in 2nd hand about 500 €. As you can see, this cable made no sense in my system. This was until I heard it. I think, even today, it is perhaps the element of my system that is not in question. Why? Because it gives me the truth about the components it connects. The soft nuances in the music, the detail, the balance and the extension of frequencies, the silence of the background ... everything.
    Oh, of course the ground connections are there to be use.

    IMHO: The interconnect cable between the source and the (pre) amplifier is the most important in a system. No speaker cable can correct the signal that has been lost between the source and the amplifier.




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  14. #14
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I too find off brand quality power and interconnects to be far better than named products. The ones you mentioned are trash. I don't know the Ortofon unit, but I do have one Genesis interconnect by Gary Koe. Hands down put all the Analysis Plus In the trash. Its hard to describe until you hear the difference. When you do its like WOW. That is so, so, so much better. Unfortunately a good interconnect is $1,400 or so. The materials are expensive and they are usually hand built in the USA.

    Congrats on a nice find.

  15. #15

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hi kingrex

    Thanks for your feedback. Is good to know i´m not talking alone

    Now you made me very curious about Genesis Clabes. Sadly there is no dealer here in Portugal. But when i get the chance, i will listen with all attention. What i look for in audio is exactly what you describe: the wow factor. So simple, isn´t it ?!

    A big hug


  16. #16
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Nice Stuff Mr Spock , really clear sounding video dat , BTW CR7 forever .................

  17. #17

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Nice Stuff Mr Spock , really clear sounding video
    Thanks!
    I try, I try

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    BTW CR7 forever .................

  18. #18

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hi spock,
    Very nice sound !
    Really enjoyed reading your finetuning journey!
    Recently i upgraded the power supply of my modem, router, and switch with ifi power and this brought a signficant jump on sq and this just out of the box.
    My next step was, isolating my system electrical plug by a seperate elcb and a proper mcb.
    Let me tell you i m far to be an expert in electricity but a dealer adviced me to do it.
    After checking my electrical panel, i found out that my hifi is within a seperate elcb including 3 plugs situated in the living room, so my dealer concluded that i was lucky; cause i wasn t exposed to electrical leak or noise coming from the like of fridge disturbing my hifi system.
    So, by reading your comments, i was thinking may be i can improve the cable from my hifi plug and the electrical panel and may be change the elcb to a fuse
    System, but i have no clue how to do it.
    Can you please explain in details how to do it so i can direct my electrician how to do it.
    Thks




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  19. #19
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    If your usa, especially Oregon/Washington I would love to help.

  20. #20

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    If your usa, especially Oregon/Washington I would love to help.
    Unfortunately not. I m in the middle east , dubai.
    Thks anyway!


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  21. #21

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by sksouri1456 View Post
    Hi spock,
    Very nice sound !
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by sksouri1456 View Post
    Really enjoyed reading your finetuning journey!

    I´m just started!
    More to come soon!

    Quote Originally Posted by sksouri1456 View Post
    Can you please explain in details how to do it so i can direct my electrician how to do it.
    I would love to help you but i can´t.
    I have an electrician in the family and is he who does the work.




  22. #22
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Sksouri, what do you want to know. I install dedicated power feeds to high end audio. I can give you the basics if that is what you need.

  23. #23

    Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Sksouri, what do you want to know. I install dedicated power feeds to high end audio. I can give you the basics if that is what you need.
    Hi,
    This is my electricity panel, b4 is my hifi plug.
    The other mcb's within section 2 are all in the livingroom without a risk of noise pollution to my system.
    So i was thinking to upgrade may be, the cable from my hifi plug to this panel, and may be change the elcb to a fuse system.
    I m not sure what i ve wrote is correct or wrong : (
    IMG_2140.JPG



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  24. #24

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I´ll be back soon !


  25. #25
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    I´ll be back soon !

    Sounds great....who is that artist/what is the album you are playing?
    Legacy Audio VALOR with Wavelet V2, Legacy i.V4 ULTRA 4ch amp, HDPlex 300W LPSU, RevAudio Labs Passage Cryo-silver DC Umbilical,Ghent Audio DC Umbilical, Esoteric Grandioso P1 & D1s, Cybershaft Premium Ltd Type2 OP21A 10 MHz Clock, Esoteric C-02X Preamp, SHUNYATA TRITON v3, TYPHON QR & ALTAIRA SG hub & cables, AfterBurner8 duplexes, CSP Inc Q4B, S2B IEC support plates, Shunyata OMEGA CLOCK-50s, AQ Firebird 48 HDMIs, Elrod Master Series Diamond & Masters Series Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Gold XLRs, Diamond XLRs & Master Diamond XLRs, Shunyata OMEGA QR-s power cable, Shunyata Anaconda Z-tron XLR, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Adona AV45CS3, AV45CS2 & AV45CS1 and Multi-Element platforms, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints Ultra SS w/Ultra Bases

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  26. #26

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Thanks,


    The music is from BAM BAM BAM album - Ray Brown Trio

  27. #27

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Do you usually clean the CD´s?
    Do you believe it can make a huge difference?

    If you want to listen an obvious change in the sound, select one of your´s CD´s from the 80´s. Select one with metal instruments, a Big Band like Count Basie Orchestra.
    You can try with a simple screen cleaner. Clean well the surface of the CD and play it again.

    And?...



  28. #28

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    The story of my pre Cambridge 840E

    First of all, i must say that i do not have much experience with other pre amplifiers. In my own system, I only tested a Denon and a Classé.

    After a lifetime with integrated amplifiers, I decided to try a pre power solution. So, I bought a Roksan Caspian power (in second hand) and connected it to the pre section of the receiver (Denon 3805). Even that way, it was a clear step forward from my Classé CAP 101.
    For me, and from that day, there was only one way: to find a good pre that could send me in the right direction of high end performance. And at time it appears on the market the combo pre power from the Cambridge Audio. I found it really beautiful, with a look of some high priced gear. All the magazines at time say that this combo was the affordable high end. I knew the dealer and it was easy (today is not so easy) to try at my home this combo.
    And the day has come. First I try only the pre 840 E. WOW! What a difference! At 1.100 €, it was probably the most obvious upgrade, ever. And this with the Roksan Caspian power. So, I expected only the best from the addition of the Cambridge power, the 840W. I expect only the best in synergy terms between the combo of the same brand. But… I didn´t liked! The Cambridge power made a big sound, with a lower and extended bass, but everything becomes very dark and heavy, the opposite of what I was looking for: an open and alive sound!
    Only the pre had that kind of sound, so I only bought the 840 E.

    With time I made some fine tuning…
    Some common troubles with volume control, -you can read more about here https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...-contol-issues, made me drilled the cover (photo 2) because someone says the heat was/is the cause. I love to listen a bit loud, to pursuit the scale, and it real heats a lot above the capacitors and the volume control zone.
    I also coated the inside of the cover with a thin layer of silicone to prevent the lid from vibrating (photo 3).
    I remove the cover above the transformer (photo 4), but did a separation between it and the circuits, using some lead as a board (photo 5). The transformer is on top of a granite stone, with silicone between them (photo 6).
    The feet (VCS – Vibration Control System) work very well (photo vcs1 and vcs2). You can find them here http://allforhifi.com/index.php?id_p...roller=product.
    Under the feet you can see two pieces of granite (photo 1), with different dimensions to ensure different resonance frequencies. Between the stones and the rack, a rubber composite makes the decoupling. With the VCS and the stones, everything comes more alive, with the sound a little more forward and out of the speakers.
    As you certainly think by now, yes, i change the fuses. But I will talk about them in a dedicated chapter.

    FOTO1

    FOTO2

    FOTO3

    FOTO4

    FOTO5

    FOTO6

    FOTOVCS1

    FOTO VCS2



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  29. #29
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Thanks,


    The music is from BAM BAM BAM album - Ray Brown Trio
    Thank you!
    Legacy Audio VALOR with Wavelet V2, Legacy i.V4 ULTRA 4ch amp, HDPlex 300W LPSU, RevAudio Labs Passage Cryo-silver DC Umbilical,Ghent Audio DC Umbilical, Esoteric Grandioso P1 & D1s, Cybershaft Premium Ltd Type2 OP21A 10 MHz Clock, Esoteric C-02X Preamp, SHUNYATA TRITON v3, TYPHON QR & ALTAIRA SG hub & cables, AfterBurner8 duplexes, CSP Inc Q4B, S2B IEC support plates, Shunyata OMEGA CLOCK-50s, AQ Firebird 48 HDMIs, Elrod Master Series Diamond & Masters Series Statement Gold Power cords, Elrod Statement Gold XLRs, Diamond XLRs & Master Diamond XLRs, Shunyata OMEGA QR-s power cable, Shunyata Anaconda Z-tron XLR, Elrod Statement Gold speaker cables, Adona AV45CS3, AV45CS2 & AV45CS1 and Multi-Element platforms, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates, Stillpoints Ultra SS w/Ultra Bases

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  30. #30

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Suspended at the top of the rack to prevent vibrations, between the pre and the power i have a Transparent MusicLink Plus. An honest cable, (not the most neutral) that will keep doing his job until i find again the WOW factor at a reasonable price.


    Question: copper or silver? Copper all the way. Silver has not the right timbre.





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  31. #31

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Suspended at the top of the rack to prevent vibrations, between the pre and the power i have a Transparent MusicLink Plus. An honest cable, (not the most neutral) that will keep doing his job until i find again the WOW factor at a reasonable price.


    Question: copper or silver? Copper all the way. Silver has not the right timbre.





    Hi spock,
    Amazing sound!
    I followed your advice and tried audience 24 se s.c in my system and i was shoked !
    I didn t excpect much of a difference honestly, but everything went up a notch or two.
    Special note for the bass, waouw!
    I never felt a big difference in cables like this one, it was very clear and obvious in my system.
    The satori is still a good cable until you hear the audience, now i m stuck i need to upgrade it!


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  32. #32

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by sksouri1456 View Post
    Hi spock,

    Amazing sound!
    I followed your advice and tried audience 24 se s.c in my system and i was shoked !
    I didn t excpect much of a difference honestly, but everything went up a notch or two.
    Special note for the bass, waouw!
    I never felt a big difference in cables like this one, it was very clear and obvious in my system.
    The satori is still a good cable until you hear the audience, now i m stuck i need to upgrade it!
    HI


    Glad to hear that.
    I´m very, very happy for you!
    Now that you´ve removed the weakest link, enjoy.

    You a have a fabulous system. I say it because i know well the speaker and the amplifier.





  33. #33

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Breaking news !!

    A friend of mine is the man behind VCS (vibration control system).
    He made a new power cable and sent it to me to try.



    Well. What can i say? This one is going to stay in the system, for sure.
    Amazing. Great bass extension, better high notes and a middle band with more density, The stage also became huge, with a depth i didn´t knew so far.
    Very, very clean, just the way i like.
    I think i´m gonna need more two of these!!

    http://allforhifi.com/index.php?id_p...roller=product

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  34. #34

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Here we go again

    The power Lyngdorf SDA


    3 weeks ago I went into a house of new audiophile friend to listen his system. For what matters let me tell you that the amplification was a pre power combination from Cello (do you remember?) Well, all I can tell you is that I come into my house thinking of buying another power just to get the groove and the density of the sound that come out from a Sonus faber Amati Futura. Of course what I did was sat down and waited for the idea gets way. It will not be easy ($$) to replace this 1.390 € power. I think I must spend 4 or 5 times this money. From what I heard till now, I like Hegel, I like Simaudio, I like Audionet; I Like Gamut. I like Constellation Audio too just to mention! And if it was possible, I love to have monoblocks. But this Lyngdorf power continues to react to all the upgrades and each time it plays better. Saying that, i think i´m going to stay with this amplifier a bit more. Of course, changing the fuses was mandatory. In the power entry and next to the capacitors.

    Now with 3 VCS power cords: CD, Pre and power.

    And suddenly there´s an echo in the voice that was not there before…

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  35. #35
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Spock, what's your amp. I know a guy with Gamut monoblocks to sell. USA.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
    Kingrexelectric.com Lyncole certified grounding specialist.

  36. #36
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    3 weeks ago I went into a house of new audiophile friend to listen his system. For what matters let me tell you that the amplification was a pre power combination from Cello (do you remember?) Well, all I can tell you is that I come into my house thinking of buying another power just to get the groove and the density of the sound that come out from a Sonus faber Amati Futura.
    You went to a new, presumably unfamiliar room, heard speakers very different from yours, within the context of an entirely different system...and parsed the responsibility for "groove and density" to the amplifier?
    Am I understanding this correctly?
    You'll have to forgive me for being rather slow and dense, I'm one of those "science" types, i.e. I started learning physics at 13, so my take on electro-acoustic stereophonic things, may be a bit limited.

  37. #37

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Spock, what's your amp. I know a guy with Gamut monoblocks to sell. USA.
    Kingrex

    As I said above, my power amplifier is the Lyngdorf SDA 2175
    Thanks in advance for your suggestion, but probably the Gamut are not for me for two reasons:

    • Even in second hand the price is too much for my pocket
    • Second, I have afraid of any direct purchase ffrom the United States since my last (about one week ago) was taxed by the Portuguese authorities at around 30 % of the value. Yes, if I say what I think I´m probably going to be arrested !! (never happened before. I don´t know if it is a consequence of the economic policy of your President)


    I´m thinking in a more affordable solution, and i´m looking for the chance of hearing in my house this

    https://www.psaudio.com/products/ste...wer-amplifier/


    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    You went to a new, presumably unfamiliar room, heard speakers very different from yours, within the context of an entirely different system...and parsed the responsibility for "groove and density" to the amplifier?
    Am I understanding this correctly?
    You'll have to forgive me for being rather slow and dense, I'm one of those "science" types, i.e. I started learning physics at 13, so my take on electro-acoustic stereophonic things, may be a bit limited.
    AJ

    Yes, you understand just right. I´m tired of listening all kind of Sonus Faber. I never heard a Sonus Faber singing like that. This is not from school. It comes with time and with experience.

  38. #38
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    This is not from school. It comes with time and with experience.
    I suspected that.
    I'd just like to be taught how to parse/eliminate the speakers placement/synergy with that unique room (and corresponding responses at listening positions) and all other electronics/cables/fuses/whatnot...and "zoom in" on the real culprit, the Cello amp.
    An old dog like me likes learning new tricks, but of course I'm also plagued by logic, reasoning, etc, etc.

    cheers,

    AJ

  39. #39
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Any possibility the new audio friend can loan you the cello amp to try in your system?

  40. #40

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I suspected that.[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PaiII/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]
    I'd just like to be taught how to parse/eliminate the speakers placement/synergy with that unique room (and corresponding responses at listening positions) and all other electronics/cables/fuses/whatnot...and "zoom in" on the real culprit, the Cello amp.
    Now you´re going to be shocked. There is a distinct reviewer who writes he can do that, supported by his long experience in audio. If he can do that, why can´t I do the same?

    Now you know how an audiophile thinks, He goes to a new friend´s house, listen to a new system, and right away he thinks he must spend 4 or 5.000 € on a new amplification!
    I´m a true audiophile!

    But let me tell you that was not my intention to do a full review of the sound, so maybe my description was too short. Don´t know if it helps if i say that the groove and the density came with other good qualities. The macro and micro dynamics was fantastic. I could be wrong but i think only a good amplification can do that. At almost 5 meters of distance, the sound arrived big and effortlessly. I have a neighbor who has a SF Amati with Audio Research (Ref 110), aided by a big subwoofer from REL. And he has not the same dynamic and, for example, the line of the deep bass is not so easy to follow. It is never an easy task to make a Sonus Faber sing. But i really think this Cello amplifier do the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Any possibility the new audio friend can loan you the cello amp to try in your system?
    No. As I said is a new friend and it was the first visit to his house. With time, who knows?

    Cheers!

  41. #41

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Probably you allready notice that i have a stone base under each component.



    The stone is granite and there are two pieces of dfiferent dimensions. As i learn with a great Brasilian audiophile, Jorge Knirsh. The different dimensions assure they vibrate at different frequencies.
    Between the two pieces is a thin strip of silicone



    Under the two stones there´s a rubber composite. The best i found till now.



    In the supermarket they sell this rubber to put under the washing machines. Be sure that the material between the rack and the base is really important. I try so many other materials like felt or cork (horrible), and so many kinds of rubber. If the rubber is to soft or to stuff the result is not good. This composite gave me the best results after a long tryal and error experience. In my opinion, and this is fundamental when we talk about the speakers, you must create a “second floor” where you can dissipate the vibrations of the equipment when is working. To do so you need a stuff base like stone. But you need also to separate this “second floor” from the floor himself to prevent the vibrations to go up to the gear and make influence into the sound.
    Everything matters, every different materials have their own influence. Whatever you try, certainly you go notice in the sound. After that, try and try again untill you find the best solution to your ears.

    Now a new vídeo with a new and cheap subwoofer cable (Audioquest Black Label - 2 m)
    Do the cables make a difference?
    Not on a wireless system.

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  42. #42
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    You are making a speaker stand, correct. Why a ringing stone like granite? Why not something more Inert like sandstone, corian or acrylic. Maybe even plywood. I have not put up my speakers yet, but all my other equipment has gone through various bases and granite was too hard and bright. What other materials have you tried.

    I'm sorry, I could probably look and find it, but my phone is not showing what equipment you have in your signature. Are you a boy box speaker? Would you say your system is bright, neutral or warm?
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
    Kingrexelectric.com Lyncole certified grounding specialist.

  43. #43

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Hi Kingrex

    Thanks for your questions. They are like a warning to me, a signal that i should keep on trying other solutions. I´ve been long time curious about corian. Your question tell me it is probably the right time to go for it.
    What other materials did i tried? Well, i tried solid wood and didn´t liked. The sound was too much on the warm side. I also tried glass (not bad) and 2 kinds of stone: marble and granite. I saw lots of systems using granite so i decided to try. And never noticed the bright sound you talk about. Perhaps because i always used the rock with some kind of rubber or silicone. Even with the granite my sound is neutral. I can´t live, nether with a bright / harsh sound, nether with a warm or "closed" sound too. But is not perfect of course. I´m looking hard for a full bodied sound. I´m searching for more bass, more groove. But it must be always clean. That´s why in the last times i´ve been thinking in a new amplification. On the other hand, i wonder if i would need a 3 way speaker to achieve this goal. My speakers are the Usher Mini Dancer 2 DMD.

  44. #44
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    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I guess I can try granite. Did you use a piece of 2cm and 3cm. Is your stone on a wood block or stand, or did the grain of your wood floor change. I see the change in the photo. Was it polished both sides. Did you put the mat sides together or polished to mat.

    As I noted, for me, I have only messed around with materials under my equipment. My digital and phono pre are on Corian with my custom feet of corian and a bead on top. My preamp is on plywood with its own feet. My amps on 2" acrylic with beads on spike bases. My preamp was fatiguing on corian. Confused on just the stand. More clear and neutral on the plywood.

    I tried 1/ 4" plywood under my Sonus Faber but have tried nothing so far under my PAP Trio 10. I should probably change the feet too. They are a bolt with a plastic cup on the bottom on felt. I'm sure the are vibrating and moving back and forth. The feet just seem a weak link. Not sure. I use them as I have a good $80k into my wood floors. I will not tolerate spike holes in the floor.

    Thanks for the motivation to try something.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg Oyaide cable from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Oyaide dedicated10 AWG branch circuits from panel to each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.
    Kingrexelectric.com Lyncole certified grounding specialist.

  45. #45

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Nothing scientific here about dimensions. Just Intuition!
    I think the more mass /weight the better. One thing is clear to me: two stones with some silicone or thin rubber between them are better than one.
    Only pay attention on the height of the tweeter.


    The stone that is on top is polished both sides. The stone underneath is polished on the top side and it is mat finish on the underside. But is just my perfectionism…
    If it´s easy to you to try granite, go for it. You know they say that quartz is a good thing to audio performance. But i have a good feeling now about corian !!

  46. #46

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Not over yet


    Me too, I can´t tolerate holes in the floor, so I made some brass shoes that I removed when I started to use the granite bases.
    One day I decided to try the shoes again, this time between the spikes and the stone.
    And my clear advice is not to directly support the spikes in the stone. More complicated but even better, is if you use a thin silicone strip like you can see in the photo.

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  47. #47

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    My new spikes.



    Yes, the design is mine
    Bigger and wider soundstage.
    No signal of compression, but...
    I need to listen a little more.

    I love this wonderful world of the tweaks. It is amazing. Everything makes difference.

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  48. #48

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    With a little help of the magic silicone (*), and everything got better.
    My idea was to transfer the energy in one single point, and yet having a good area of contact in both sides (the floor and the speakers).
    Worth the money (was not so cheap as you can imagine).

    (*)



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  49. #49

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Well, back to this topic ...
    My preamplifier went to repair the volume control. It went up and down alone…

    Since it had to go to the surgery room, i asked for the remove of the original footers.
    I no longer used the originals, but sometimes was difficult to find the right place for the alternative ones. Of course, it will now be easier to experiment with several other footers (especially with wider bases).

    But there was another change. This gear is relatively well built but it is not high end. Since the RCA inputs are too close, it has always been very difficult to connect my Ortofon cables. Sometimes, even bad contact occurred on the channel that did not give such a good grip. Thus, an XLR input was eliminated and a new RCA input was created in its place, also using better quality jacks (Furutech).



    And I dare to say that this greater space between the right and left channel, better grip and superior quality contacts have resulted.

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  50. #50

    Re: Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    Now it would be the turn of the speaker cables, but I'll come back to them later.
    The speakers are the Usher Audio Mini Dancer 2 DMD



    A second-hand purchase that I could not lose the opportunity. I always thought that when I replaced the Sonus Faber I couldn't miss the excellent reproduction of the human voice (and obviously the violin ). The human voice would have to sound ... human. I still think that the reproduction of the human voice is a strong point of the SF. So I could not accept to go back. Neither nasal nor synthetic. Just natural. The Usher gave me this but simultaneously more frequency extension on top and bottom.

    But I've already made a small / great upgrade. Once again I used the silicone to decouple the speakers from the box. And what a difference, especially in the treble. It has become much cleaner and more extensive. A difference so strong and so obvious that I dare to speak of gross mistake / construction failure. Something so simple that can make so much difference…





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