Randy's "New" VT-50

**CDLehner** · January 23, 2017, 10:27 PM

Guys...Randy, is purchasing my VT-50.

It's his first foray, into tubed power-amps.

I've suggested, he take full advantage of the wealth of glass knowledge...here at the Shark; as far as, setting it up...properly and safely

Thanks

**CDLehner** · January 24, 2017, 12:09 AM

**CPP** · January 24, 2017, 10:34 AM

enjoy Randy

**joeinid** · January 24, 2017, 10:43 AM

Congratulations Randy!

**Mike** · January 24, 2017, 12:41 PM

Nice Randy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Randy Myers** · January 25, 2017, 01:43 AM

Hey guys... and Chris

... yes anxious to give this amp a listen... decided to keep the Ampzilla and add the ARC to switch back and forth. Not gonna mess with anything much to start. Chris has told me that this guy just came back from ARC with a fresh rebuild and retubing so I think it should be good to go for now.

My biggest issue now is deciding where to put it in my open sided glass rack. I was thinking that I could easily move it in and out with SST in the bottom slot. But I have been told that the 4" above the amp is probably not enough for proper cooling.

I could move the Mc tuner on top of the rack, leaving 13", plenty of space. But not sure I like the look of that big open space...

I could also put the ARC on top of rack. Then I would have to simply unhook the Richard Gray power cable, W4S XLRs, and Kimber Kables speaker cords from the lower amp and hook them onto the upper amp...

Joe likes the last option... so what do you guys think? Would an ARC sitting up on top of the rack be out of place or look like the crown of the system?

I think I am leaning towards putting the Mc up on top and keeping the amps on the bottom. The extra space will make it very easy to switch the amps out

...

**Jozua** · January 25, 2017, 07:09 AM

Looking forward to reading your comments re the "valve experience"....
Enjoy !

**CPP** · January 25, 2017, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Hey guys... and Chris

... yes anxious to give this amp a listen... decided to keep the Ampzilla and add the ARC to switch back and forth. Not gonna mess with anything much to start. Chris has told me that this guy just came back from ARC with a fresh rebuild and retubing so I think it should be good to go for now.

My biggest issue now is deciding where to put it in my open sided glass rack. I was thinking that I could easily move it in and out with SST in the bottom slot. But I have been told that the 4" above the amp is probably not enough for proper cooling.

I could move the Mc tuner on top of the rack, leaving 13", plenty of space. But not sure I like the look of that big open space...

I could also put the ARC on top of rack. Then I would have to simply unhook the Richard Gray power cable, W4S XLRs, and Kimber Kables speaker cords from the lower amp and hook them onto the upper amp...

Joe likes the last option... so what do you guys think? Would an ARC sitting up on top of the rack be out of place or look like the crown of the system?

I think I am leaning towards putting the Mc up on top and keeping the amps on the bottom. The extra space will make it very easy to switch the amps out

...

41 lbs there Randy. You know you can always upgrade your rack , or add an (amp) stand for your VT and let it reside right next to your existing rack.

**Randy Myers** · January 25, 2017, 10:16 AM

Might eventually grab a amp stand to sit next to the rack. For now it is not so hard to switch in and out. The Ampzilla is also 40 pounds so I know what the weight is moving the amps around

...

Ok, I just ordered an amp stand! Set it next to the rack... take care of all of the above

....

**RDSChicago** · January 25, 2017, 11:56 AM

Sometimes I use two inch thick maple blocks which serve as amp stands very micely. Enjoy the tube sound, Randy. It's addicting. Still my favorite way to listen.

**Randy Myers** · January 25, 2017, 01:46 PM

Nice... Audio Adviser have some fairly in expensive amplifier stands. One comes with spike feet, lifts the amp about 7" off the floor and have coloring to match my rack. I re-positioned some of the other gear and measured it all out. Should be able to easily move the wiring between the two amps. I am planning on still using the Ampzilla as the primary, when people are over, listening to the tuner as back ground, etc.; and then hook up the ARC when I feel like sitting down for some serious listening. That is the plan anyway

....

**mep** · January 25, 2017, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Guys...Randy, is purchasing my VT-50.

It's his first foray, into tubed power-amps.

I've suggested, he take full advantage of the wealth of glass knowledge...here at the Shark; as far as, setting it up...properly and safely

Thanks

Did you tell him not to do what you did?

**Randy Myers** · January 25, 2017, 04:43 PM

Hehe... I have had more than one person tell me that

...

**CDLehner** · January 25, 2017, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Might eventually grab a amp stand to sit next to the rack. For now it is not so hard to switch in and out. The Ampzilla is also 40 pounds so I know what the weight is moving the amps around

...

Ok, I just ordered an amp stand! Set it next to the rack... take care of all of the above

....

Pics Randy!

So...let's just go over, some of the common-sense rules; I think you should follow for set-up.

Which tube goes where, is VERY important. The included chart is accurate; the tubes are clearly marked, but if there is any question...please check with me, before powering up.

Again...this is going to seem obvious; but better safe than sorry. Unpack, remove the lid; take the tubes out of their protective foam

Small, pre-stage tubes first; larger, power tubes last. DO NOT PLUG IN POWER!

Hook up your kit, speakers, and IMO...this is extremely important; a habit to get into...(if you're not already)

- Source and Pre-amp (in this case, your Benchmark, right?); on FIRST. Volume, all the way down.

- Then...plug in the VT-50, turn it on; and were it me...I would let it warm-up, at least 30 minutes. (if you can...do something constructive, in the room...while it warms up; so you can keep an eye for any malfunction).

- Volume up, and enjoy (this last part, is crucial

)

As important as start up; is shut down. I do this...

- Volume down

- Amp off

- Pre-amp off

Of course...I'll defer, to any of the more-experienced glass-heads here; for contradictory or additional advice. That's why I started the thread

**Randy Myers** · January 25, 2017, 11:19 PM

Yea, I always turn pre-amp on first, volume down, source on and then the amplifier... turning off, amplifier first, then source and then pre-amplifier

...

And Chris, thank you, I look forward to playing with this classic amplifier!

**CDLehner** · January 25, 2017, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by mep

Did you tell him not to do what you did?

Yeah; if/when the time comes to bias...get ALLIGATOR CLIPS, for your Voltmeter leads!

**Randy Myers** · January 26, 2017, 12:19 AM

Yea, the instructions I found online all say to use clips

.... Hopefully I won't be playing with that for a while.

**CDLehner** · January 26, 2017, 09:24 PM

ETD-

Wednesday, 2/1?

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2017, 12:07 AM

OMG... too funny

... we going to track it across the country

....

**Jozua** · January 27, 2017, 03:55 AM

I dying to know if the boytjie is happy with his purchase... ?

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2017, 01:54 PM

boytjie ? What is a boytjie ?

**jdandy** · January 27, 2017, 02:10 PM

Randy.......South African slang for either a jock or jock oriented person. It is also used to mean bro or brother. It is pronounced boy-tee.

Thank you Google.

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2017, 02:21 PM

Hehe.... ok... I thought it was a typo

.... thank you Mr. Dan!

**Jozua** · January 27, 2017, 05:43 PM

Randy esq

Google is not spot-on but the reference to a brother/friend/comrade is possibly the nearest to correct in my part of the woods. Definitely not a derogatory reference. Since I am a valve convert it could also be read as welcome to the (world-wide?) tube environment..

Now the big burning question on this side of the pond is, are you happy with the sound?

Pronounced as "boy-chi" in Cape Town.

Regards

J

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2017, 06:10 PM

Well it has not arrived yet... is supposed to arrive next Wednesday. I have the setup ready for it. A amplifier stand will be arriving Tuesday so should be good to go when the ARC comes in

... Thanks for asking!

**Jozua** · January 27, 2017, 06:41 PM

I am very keen to read about your impressions as I am playing with the idea of doing something similar

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2017, 06:46 PM

Nice... I am anxious to listen to it. Fairly sure it will have plenty of power for me. Having the powerful SS to fall back on is a good thing also. I assumed from your avatar that you already had an ARC amplifier

...

**Jozua** · January 28, 2017, 02:27 PM

Yip- Very impressed with my ARC equipment...

**Randy Myers** · February 1, 2017, 07:21 PM

We have lift off! Plenty of power, in fact the volume control is about in the same position as it is with the Ampzilla (the 220/350 WPC Ampzilla)...

It sounds very good so far, but obviously to soon to give an honest comparison...

A few marks, scratches, etc., but not terribly so. What would be expected from an amp of this age... definitely looks to be built like a tank....

Really nice connection, why doesn't everyone use this grade connections! 4, 8, and 16 ohm taps. I used the 4 ohm since the MC have 4 ohms listed on the back of the speakers!

**joeinid** · February 1, 2017, 07:25 PM

Awesome Randy! So happy for you.

**Randy Myers** · February 1, 2017, 08:39 PM

I can tell you one thing... it is already growing on me.... very tight is the best way I can describe it.... amazing definition... seems to have a very good sound stage and instrument placement....

Listening to Norah Jones... her voice never sounded so inviting (always sounded great but this is a whole new...... just wow)....

ELP... Lucky Man... From the Beginning... very very nice!

**joeinid** · February 1, 2017, 11:04 PM

When you get right down to it, tubes rule!

**CDLehner** · February 1, 2017, 11:29 PM

Randy...those who might have been pushing you toward this amp, and/or tubes in general; I think what they were doing...is trying to "f a t t e n up" your sound.

I'm not a fan, of the DAC-as-preamp approach. I've tried it, many times...and with many models; some, naturally, are better than other. But none of them, ever matched a really good pre-amp; for my taste.

IMO...the trade-off is this: DAC-as-preamp, and/or passive pre-amps, etc. Yes...the path is shorter, "cleaner", etc.; and that can result, in a very resolving sound. But it can end up being, what you might call...too clean; too "sterile", and a bit thin. Going that route, with your Benchmark...and then into an SS amp; that's kinda a "clean" on "clean" combo.

The VT-50, should be lending weight, body; meat...to the musical bones. The fact that you're finding that...and, don't feel a loss of resolution at all (in fact, maybe find it...to at least appear, even more resolving); is a home run...and why ARC was a great choice (I know you are new, to the wonderful, strange, and maddening world of glass...but ARC is considered to be pretty "linear" sounding, for tube kit. I know you're not one, for messing-around...at least just yet; but know that KT-88s...and I'd HIGHLY recommend Gold Lions here https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collect...gold-lion-kt88 ...would give a touch more warmth, body, and richness at a possible small sacrifice, of resolution. BTW...these are what you have now https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collect...winged-c-6550c , except the cream of the crop from ARC!).

About the "few marks, scratches, etc."; I hope you mean mostly confined, to the top? Those are from the previous owner...and yes; not egregious IMO, and to be expected as you said. But I really didn't notice much to anything, on the all-important face-plate?

Joe is right; TOOBS RULE! PICS!!

**Randy Myers** · February 2, 2017, 12:52 AM

Pics soon soon... just got home from grand daughters soccer game

.... and yes, the marks are pretty much contained to the top and to be expected, so no big deal at all

....

**Randy Myers** · February 2, 2017, 03:27 AM

Here are some photos... members systems thread...

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...219#post193219

**Jozua** · February 2, 2017, 07:00 AM

Randy

Very nice to know the amp sounds good in your system.

Welcome to the ARC family.

Enjoy !

J

**Randy Myers** · February 2, 2017, 09:52 AM

Thank you sir. A very impressive "little" amp. For 45 WPC it can really power my speakers with no issues! And the MC are 85 dB, 4 ohm speakers...

**CDLehner** · February 2, 2017, 09:23 PM

Randy...looks awesome! Enjoy that RLJ

**Randy Myers** · February 2, 2017, 09:26 PM

Thanks Chris.... ahhh what is RLJ?

**CDLehner** · February 2, 2017, 10:23 PM

Rickie Lee Jones. Isn't that Pirates, I see in your easel?

**Randy Myers** · February 2, 2017, 10:41 PM

Ahhh got ya... yes Pirates, Original Mater Recording SACD. Really good disk!

**CDLehner** · February 5, 2017, 11:47 PM

So...how's the amp settling in Randy?

**Randy Myers** · February 6, 2017, 12:26 AM

So far pretty nice. I like the sound and the feel quite a bit. I would love to get a clear top like what I see shown on the Ref 6

....

How do I know when tubes are in need of replacement? Just planning for down the road.... Does the amplifier require being sent to ARC for tube replacement? I see people talking about putting 88's, or something like that in it. Are they the larger output tubes? And, since ARC literally labeled them to which socket each tube goes in, if you replace tubes with something else is this not also important?

Just some thoughts. So far I have been pretty much playing it almost exclusively, but I think at some point I might want to switch in the Ampzilla for a change of pace.

**Jack** · February 6, 2017, 02:01 AM

Randy

Even if you play it a couple of hours a day you have several years before you have to worry about replacing the tubes. Just enjoy.

**Randy Myers** · February 6, 2017, 02:10 AM

Thanks Jack... I was thinking it would be quite some time, but I also love to understand my equipment. I do have to say though, this ARC is very impressive! Really enjoying it so far... I am also going to be adding a STP-SE back into the system!

**CDLehner** · February 6, 2017, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Thanks Jack... I was thinking it would be quite some time, but I also love to understand my equipment. I do have to say though, this ARC is very impressive! Really enjoying it so far... I am also going to be adding a STP-SE back into the system!

Randy, Jack is right. I'm not an hour-counter...but I think if you assume these tubes, to have ~100 hours on them; you won't be far off, in one direction or another.

But...to answer your questions (and again...any of the hard-core experts, feel free to correct me): when a tube starts to go bad, the unit will start to sound "wrong"; maybe some distortion, maybe what they call "tube rush"...which is like an "windy" sound, along with the audio signal. Of course, if you have a complete failure; the unit probably won't play at all.

When/if, the time comes...to replace either a single bad tube or the quad; you don't need to worry about the numbering. Obviously...with a single, bad tube; that's where the replacement will go...and you'll likely need to re-bias. With a whole quad...doesn't matter, where the new tubes go; but...that will DEFINITELY require a re-bias, and that's when you'll want to take note...which tube is where.

That's what the numbering is about; it's in that position, that the unit has been biased. So if you ever have to remove the tubes...like I did, to ship it to you; it's important they go back in the same place

The unit does not have to be sent to ARC, just to roll or replace the tubes; but depending on what, and how often you're having it done...it might not be a bad idea. For example...let's say 6 months from now, you decide you want to try a quad of KT-88s (yes, the larger power tubes; your current ones, being 6550-Cs. Which, BTW; if you're not replacing because they're shot...you'll absolutely, want to keep around. You can switch in and out, to tinker with sound...which is what we are referring to, when we say rolling; although, unlike pre-amps...which don't require it...it's not as easy, because of the need to re-bias); no...I would not send that away, to ARC to have done. One...they most likely, won't even do it...lol. ARC doesn't believe in "rolling"; they believe they've picked the perfect tube, designed the circuit around that tube...and that you, the owner, are only serving your silly, audiophile, futzing nature...by messing with it. Not saying they're wrong...lol; but...it is your prerogative, which is why you'll need to do it.

Two...even if they would do it; it would be crazy expensive, if you were doing so...on any kind of "regular" basis (as I said...like 6 months from now). OTOH...if say, 3 years from now; you feel the tubes have a certain amount of hours on them...are going "bad"...and you would like to completely re-tube. While you still don't have to...that might be worthwhile, sending to Plymouth. I have heard, the input tubes (the smaller ones. 6922s in this case http://www.arcdb.ws/VT50/VT50.html...are a b*tch to re-bias. That you have to bias them first...then bias the power tubes; then go back, and re-check the input tubes again!).

But to reiterate: Jack is right; just enjoy for now. You actually do, have the "best" tube; and ones, you really can't even get anymore. Now...adding an STP-SE; that's a GREAT idea! It was an excellent pairing!!

**Randy Myers** · February 6, 2017, 12:00 PM

Hey Chris, as well as Jack, I very much appreciate your wonderful input! Like each phase in re-learning this crazy hobby, I want to understand not only what I am doing, but as important to me, I simply want to understand how this all works.

Back a long long time ago I had some tube McIntosh equipment and I do not recall ever hearing about biasing. Not to say it was not done, I am sure it was, but I just don't ever remember hearing about it.

At this point in time I have no interest in rolling tubes. I currently believe that ARC knows a whole lot more than I on what works best in their amplifier. I was just curious on how it is determined that tubes are getting close to needing replacement. I also believe that even with gear that counts hours on tubes there has to be a variance, meaning that just because they say tubes last about 2000 hours does not mean that all tubes are worn out at that point. I am sure that most probably last much longer than that.

If they last for years then I would probably be inclined to have ARC do the job for me... Assuming of course I stay with this amplifier for that long... but at this point I would certainly say that is a distinct possibility!

**mep** · February 6, 2017, 05:29 PM

The ARC VT-50 is one of the easiest amps to check and set bias in the VT product line. If memory serves me correctly based on a friend of mine who used to own one, the bias test points are at the top of each board with clearly marked test points. If you are handy with a DVM, it shouldn't be a big deal to check your bias settings periodically and make adjustments as necessary. If you are like the last owner of your amp, you may blow it up and have to send it back to ARC for repairs.

Buying new output tubes or switching from 6550s to KT-88s will require knowing how to set the bias properly. If you can't do it or know someone who can do it for you, it's best to send it back to ARC.

**Randy Myers** · February 6, 2017, 06:25 PM

It seems easy enough. Using alligator clips on each side of the bias resistor. I will have to get a meter... pretty cheap... but setting the meter correct is something I have to learn.

**mep** · February 6, 2017, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

It seems easy enough. Using alligator clips on each side of the bias resistor. I will have to get a meter... pretty cheap... but setting the meter correct is something I have to learn.

You should be reading the bias on the milliamp scale (ma).

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