Results 1 to 13 of 13
-
July 12, 2017, 12:10 PM #1Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
ARC veterans, asking for your input
Hey you Audio Research veterans, I need your opinions please. I have a VT-50 amplifier. It is in wonderful shape and sounds fantastic. It was recently refurbished and retubed by ARC.
I just purchased and installed Gold Lion KT88 power tubes, and love the improvements in sound to my ears.... biasing the power tubes is not that difficult.
My question is about the smaller tubes, the 6922's... if I want to replace these tubes is biasing required? I have read a very convoluted process document from ARC about retubing the amplifier. I am not sure if doing this full process when replacing the smaller tubes is required or not. I have heard both. Some people have said it is important while others have said that the process is only to assure the tubes are matched.
So I am looking for you ARC veterans to tell me if I can safely replace the 6922 tubes or if I have to go through this complicated process. If I do then this would be a deal breaker for me. I can do the power tube biasing, but I do not believe I can to the full convoluted process that is described in the document I downloaded.
If I can simply purchase new 6922 tubes, such as a matched set of Gold Lion versions, and insert them in the amp without any other process I might do this. If not, and this full process is required I might have to rethink about if the VT-50 can be a long term amplifier for me. It is one heck of a good sounding amp though!McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
July 13, 2017, 05:36 PM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
- Location
- Cape Town, South Africa
- Posts
- 165
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Randy
Check with ARC
Take care !
Jozua
-
July 13, 2017, 09:59 PM #3Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Hey Jozua, I am pretty certain ARC will say that the amplifier has to be sent to them for retubing
...
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
July 14, 2017, 12:26 AM #4Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Tallahassee, Florida/Greenville, SC
- Posts
- 3,243
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Exactly.
Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
-
July 14, 2017, 01:19 AM #5Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
This is a long term concern for me. I really like the sound, especially with the Gold Lion KT88 tubes. I also know that the 6922 tubes do not have to be replaced often, but if I want to try some Gold Lion tubes for example... if it were a simply a matter of picking up a quad match set then we might be off to the races....
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
July 14, 2017, 07:27 AM #6Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Poland
- Posts
- 1,765
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
There is no biasing required for small signal tubes.
Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
-
July 14, 2017, 08:01 AM #7Super Moderator
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Location
- NY
- Posts
- 18,726
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
-
July 14, 2017, 08:14 AM #8Super Moderator
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Location
- NY
- Posts
- 18,726
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
From an audiogon discussion:
You can't just drop in new 6922 tubes in the VT50 amp. The new 6922 tubes need to be biased.
And you MUST have closely matched 6922 tubes. Especially the driver tubes. Not only matched pairs for each channel but each section of the dual triode tube must be closely matched. If each section of the tube is not closely matched you will never be able to bias the input and driver tube for each channel. (Behind each channel side panel there are 3 bias trim pots.)
The VT50 is no where near as hard to bias as VT100 MK 1 and Mk 2 but it still can be a pain if you do not start out with closely matched 6922 tubes.
You may complain about ARC tube pricing but you would probably be surprised how many 6922 tubes they go through to get closely matched triode sections let alone matched pairs.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/arc-vt-50-damage-repair-adviceFleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
-
July 14, 2017, 08:39 AM #9Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Ok, so this sounds like that process has to be done... and from looking in my amp I do not see these extra trim pots, so it appears some disassembly work has to also be done. What a pain.
Granted these tubes do not require replacing often but it does sound like the amp has to go to ARC to do this. This tells me it is probably not going to be my long term solution. I do not know if I will be able to afford a VT80 in the foreseeable future so I might have to consider a PrimaLuna as an alternative. We will just have to wait and see how this all unfolds.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
July 14, 2017, 05:36 PM #10Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
- Location
- Cape Town, South Africa
- Posts
- 165
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Randy
If the output tubes are matched and biased correctly my gut feel is you just need to buy closely matched driver tubes.
There is no need to get seriously stressed about it or to sell the amp due to the above uncertainties. Rather spend time finding the correct interconnects & speaker wire as in my experience the ARC amps have incredible resolution when correctly set up.
If still in serious doubt, ask a expert technical guy to check the amp after replacing the valves.
Take care.
Jozua
-
July 15, 2017, 10:54 PM #11Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Appreciate the input!
So if I wanted to try a different 6922 tube in the ARC what would be recommended? I like what the Gold Lion KT88 did to the sound over the tubes ARC provided in their retuning... these were not bad but the Gold Lion stepped it up a bit.McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
-
July 16, 2017, 12:20 AM #12Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Tallahassee, Florida/Greenville, SC
- Posts
- 3,243
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Randy
There are really only three brands in current production and you have one of them in the amp, the EH/Sovtek. That only leaves you with the Gold Lions or the JJ's. The JJ's are not going to be better and the Gold Lions are a toss up since they are made in the same factory by the same company as the EH's. A tightly matched quad of NOS tubes from Andy at VTS would be your only other option and the cost would be based on what you get, but they would last for years. The most reasonable would be the Matsushita's that were built in a Mullard tooled factory and sound very similar. Really good tubes for about $40 a piece. Call Andy on the phone and talk to him, he won't steer you wrong ask Mike.Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
-
July 16, 2017, 01:27 AM #13Senior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Kansas
- Posts
- 5,952
Re: ARC veterans, asking for your input
Jack... your knowledge on tubes always amazes me
...
McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Wyred 4 Sound ISO Recovery, DC Recovery | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105
“One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
"You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
Reply With Quote
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
I did watch the broadcast Shogun when it came out, and once as re-run. It was great. I read the book at least once, and some of the following books. I also purchased the original series on DVD. ...
Shogun