bit confused about racks

**paleo12** · July 20, 2020, 07:01 AM

Hi,

I'm new on this forum, and hope I can get some help about choosing a rack.

I am considering buying an Esoteric K03xd to replace my K05x. This is quite a tall unit, so I will have to buy a new rack to accommodate it. Looking on the internet for racks, and information about racks, I have become a bit confused: lots of contradictory opinions, materials, prices etc.
My living room has a suspended wooden floor, with a layer of very heavy sound proofing underneath a carpet. On this floor stands my present rack, on castors, and spiked PMC Fact 12s and 2 Velodyne DD10 subs.
The internet tells me that racks should provide isolation for the hifi components, but also that energy has to be able to drain away. In my situation, the speakers generate some vibration in the floor, which the components are not isolated from. Some people think that spikes provide isolation, others that they actually couple. I gather that the transport of the K03xd is quite well isolated within the case.
The space for the rack would only be about 55cm (22â€) width wise. As the floor is not level, I think it would be a good idea to get a rack that can be levelled.
At present, I am considering three options: an Townshend rack, an Audio Suspension rack, and having a rack made by a joiner. The Townshend rack sits on springs, with its glass shelves held by isolating pads. The Audio Suspension rack has spikes, and is very shiny. It relies on the properties of thick Perspex to provide isolation. All three rack would be custom made.
I would be grateful for suggestions and information.

**joeinid** · July 20, 2020, 09:23 AM

Welcome to the forum

**Shadowfax** · July 20, 2020, 10:09 AM

Welcome to AS. Hope you get the needed info from others.

**UltraFast69** · July 20, 2020, 10:52 AM

I can only say mechanical isolation is a contributor on sound quality, you are on the right track!

Let us know what you come up with.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**FDPDK** · July 20, 2020, 10:54 AM

Welcome to the Forum.

**Ritmo** · July 20, 2020, 12:12 PM

Welcome to AS!

**Ritmo** · July 20, 2020, 12:13 PM

+1

Originally Posted by UltraFast69

I can only say mechanical isolation is a contributor on sound quality, you are on the right track!

Let us know what you come up with.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**BlueFox** · July 20, 2020, 12:59 PM

Welcome. I don't know if these are available in the UK, but Mapleshade racks are flexible and great.

SAMSON Equipment Racks

**paleo12** · July 20, 2020, 03:15 PM

Thanks. They look amazing. Can't find a UK source immediately; I assume the shipping costs for something that heavy would be prohibitive.

I'm trying to understand the thinking behind their design. They say that the vibrational energy will flow out of the equipment into the floor. Would it not be possible then for vibrational energy generated by, say, subwoofers to flow the other way?

**u-sound** · July 20, 2020, 08:17 PM

what is mechanical isolation?

to my understanding: the units vibration should dissipate by traveling. rather around the footers and the shelves than into the floor.
the other topic is whats coming from the floor. so between the rack and the floor anything that slows the vibration is welcome.
here absorbation is the right thing while the wrong approach close to the unit.

**Puma Cat** · July 20, 2020, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by paleo12

Hi,

I'm new on this forum, and hope I can get some help about choosing a rack.

I am considering buying an Esoteric K03xd to replace my K05x. This is quite a tall unit, so I will have to buy a new rack to accommodate it. Looking on the internet for racks, and information about racks, I have become a bit confused: lots of contradictory opinions, materials, prices etc.
My living room has a suspended wooden floor, with a layer of very heavy sound proofing underneath a carpet. On this floor stands my present rack, on castors, and spiked PMC Fact 12s and 2 Velodyne DD10 subs.
The internet tells me that racks should provide isolation for the hifi components, but also that energy has to be able to drain away. In my situation, the speakers generate some vibration in the floor, which the components are not isolated from. Some people think that spikes provide isolation, others that they actually couple. I gather that the transport of the K03xd is quite well isolated within the case.
The space for the rack would only be about 55cm (22â€) width wise. As the floor is not level, I think it would be a good idea to get a rack that can be levelled.
At present, I am considering three options: an Townshend rack, an Audio Suspension rack, and having a rack made by a joiner. The Townshend rack sits on springs, with its glass shelves held by isolating pads. The Audio Suspension rack has spikes, and is very shiny. It relies on the properties of thick Perspex to provide isolation. All three rack would be custom made.
I would be grateful for suggestions and information.

Your best solution for providing isolation for your speakers and to keep them from coupling to floors, the walls (yes, the walls, drywall has a resonant frequency of...70 Hz.) and rack are the EVPs from Norm Varney at AV Roomservice. The other thing that is nice is that they are quite affordable compared to other footers or isolation systems. You can get whatever size and specification for supporting the weight of your speakers is here: EVP Equipment Vibration Protectors | A/V RoomService, Ltd.

You'll also find these videos to be informative:

and many more informative videos here:
AV RoomService - YouTube

**paleo12** · July 21, 2020, 05:43 AM

Hi, thanks for that. At this point, I was actually not looking to isolate the speakers, but this product looks interesting. I had a quick look online, and haven't found it in the UK so far.

It certainly has a very different approach to things than the Mapleshade racks, which seems to be all about coupling, not decoupling.

I have come across the idea that speakers should not be able to move, especially not in the same direction as the diaphragms. If they can, this would dissipate the sound energy. Putting the speakers on spikes on a wooden floor anchors them to the floor, but makes the floor into a sounding board. This may or may not produce a more attractive sound, but will obviously mean that vibration may travel into other equipment when that is not isolated from the floor. Putting the speakers on anything soft decouples them from the floor, but may allow movement. Do you find that speakers on the EVPs allow movement in the speakers?

The main culprits when it comes to vibration in my room are the subs. Were I to raise these subs more than an inch or so from the floor, I would also have to buy another rack for my television. The EVPs might well fit, provided they compress.

Your post, and the one about the Mappleshade racks, has been instructive, and while my confusion about coupling/decoupling remains, I feel it has moved to a different level.

At present, I am thinking that isolating the subs and leaving the main speakers be, while either getting a rack that isolates, or isolating just the cd player on a non-isolating rack, may be the way to go.

**Ritmo** · July 21, 2020, 05:29 PM

Very much available in Europe, Artesania racks from Spain are excellent for isolation. Also, for consideration the Rack Of Silence from Solid Tech May be a good option at a more reasonable price.

**paleo12** · July 22, 2020, 05:35 AM

Thanks for that; they both look like excellent racks. Unfortunately, they won't fit in the available space.

**Shadowfax** · July 22, 2020, 07:30 AM

I am confused about the use of glass shelves. Doesn't glass windows and sliding doors suck the bass and life out of the sound? Why don't Glass shelves do the same? When I was a younger AudioTyke, I was always told to never get a rack or cabinet with glass shelves.

**paleo12** · July 23, 2020, 03:52 AM

Hi, I had not come across the idea that glass windows "suck the bass and life out of the sound". When I am in a busy room, a restaurant for example, I am sometimes aware of the acoustics of the room: when there are few soft surfaces, there is a lot of sound reflection, making it quite hard for me to hear what my friend is saying. This is an age thing, up to a point I imagine. Glass, being hard, might well cause that to occur.

Glass shelves, according to some, are prone to "ringing". I have not found out whether this would be an audible effect or a sympathetic vibration with the music that cannot necessarily be heard, but might affect the device sitting on it.

For me, I find the whole audiophile endeavour interesting but baffling: one reads of the quantum processes in cables and the psycho-accoustic characteristics of large sofas. Debates between the "engineers" and the "subjectivists" can become quite heated. I am not a scientist, nor do I have the money or the inclination to experiment with a great many racks, say, in my living room. All I can do is try to assess the plausibility of various claims to the best of my ability, seek advice, and then take the plunge, based on a necessary incomplete understanding, and some kind of cost/benefit approach, while keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.

**bzr** · July 25, 2020, 03:59 AM

My .02 cents is "hardwood". It dissipates vibration, isolates, looks goddamn nice & nine times out of ten it's cheaper than some jumped up rack with the latest greatest. Do some experimenting & go to your nearest building supply store. get cork, rubber, soft wood, hard wood, all very small off-cut/coasters that cost a pittance to put your speakers on. Within a week your learning curve will have accelerated through the roof

**CPP** · July 25, 2020, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by bzr

My .02 cents is "hardwood". It dissipates vibration, isolates, looks goddamn nice & nine times out of ten it's cheaper than some jumped up rack with the latest greatest. Do some experimenting & go to your nearest building supply store. get cork, rubber, soft wood, hard wood, all very small off-cut/coasters that cost a pittance to put your speakers on. Within a week your learning curve will have accelerated through the roof

I like hardwood, thick hardwood. Adona is built here in my hometown and comparing a rack with granite shelves, and those isolation suspension points against my Timbernation maple hardwood rack, well I took the hardwood., Case in point, I have a Seismometer app on my phone., Its sensitive. I can lay my phone on my TT, and jump all 238 lbs of me up and down on my concrete slab with tile and a wool rug, and the needle doesn't move. , The other rack, the needle moves on the app even setting on Hebbies. I'll take thick hardwood any day. Of course just my opinion.

**paleo12** · July 25, 2020, 09:17 AM

Hardwood may be the way to go. I had a chat with a joiner I know, and we're thinking of building a rack. Possibly putting EVPs from AV Roomservice under it. I gather they may become available in the UK in the near future. This idea would produce a combination of mass and isolation.

**Mike Lavigne** · July 25, 2020, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by CPP

I like hardwood, thick hardwood. Adona is built here in my hometown and comparing a rack with granite shelves, and those isolation suspension points against my Timbernation maple hardwood rack, well I took the hardwood., Case in point, I have a Seismometer app on my phone., Its sensitive. I can lay my phone on my TT, and jump all 238 lbs of me up and down on my concrete slab with tile and a wool rug, and the needle doesn't move. , The other rack, the needle moves on the app even setting on Hebbies. I'll take thick hardwood any day. Of course just my opinion.

interesting feedback. i apologize for all the questions below, but there are so many rack issues of context that i'm wanting to fully understand.

Adona makes a number of racks. to my knowledge Adona does not have racks with isolation suspension points (maybe it's something new). it would be helpful to know which model you used? and with the Adona did you use spikes? and did those spikes get through your carpet into the concrete?

does your wood rack weigh more than the particular Adona rack you tried? and does your wood rack have flat feet, or spikes?

and can you provide a link to the 'Hebbies'? thanks. did you use the 'Hebbies' with your wood rack too? it appears that the VPI Classic 1 turntable uses integral decoupling footers. did you bypass those footers with the Hebbies? or place the VPI footers on top of the Hebbies?

the idea of a solid steel/aluminum rack (Adona) is to provide a solid base for footers you would use between the granite shelves and your gear. in essence the footers are then an impedance layer. solid wood will add lots of mass, but also will have it's own resonance too. do you use decoupling footers under your gear on your wood shelves?

**CPP** · July 25, 2020, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

interesting feedback. i apologize for all the questions below, but there are so many rack issues of context that i'm wanting to fully understand.

Adona makes a number of racks. to my knowledge Adona does not have racks with isolation suspension points (maybe it's something new). it would be helpful to know which model you used? and with the Adona did you use spikes? and did those spikes get through your carpet into the concrete?

does your wood rack weigh more than the particular Adona rack you tried? and does your wood rack have flat feet, or spikes?

and can you provide a link to the 'Hebbies'? thanks. did you use the 'Hebbies' with your wood rack too? it appears that the VPI Classic 1 turntable uses integral decoupling footers. did you bypass those footers with the Hebbies? or place the VPI footers on top of the Hebbies?

the idea of a solid steel/aluminum rack (Adona) is to provide a solid base for footers you would use between the granite shelves and your gear. in essence the footers are then an impedance layer. solid wood will add lots of mass, but also will have it's own resonance too. do you use decoupling footers under your gear on your wood shelves?

Giant Fat Glider
– Herbie's Audio Lab

Adona Audio Racks I guess they call it independent support system. It was a nice rack and since it was close to my home a big savings on shipping.

I would say, my racks are about the same weight about 100-135 lbs

No spikes on the tile, but I did use Cone/Spike Puckies
– Herbie's Audio Lab

Just place the equipment on the shelf, no footers were needed. The way I look at it, if the needle on my gauge didn't move, why waste the money on other footers under the equipment,. We are talking 2 " of thick maple for 3 shelves and under my TT,the top shelf (4th) its almost 3" of solid maple. Custom Furniture, Hi End Audio Stereo Racks and Isolation Platforms at Timber Nation.

Hope this helps

**Mike Lavigne** · July 25, 2020, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by CPP

Giant Fat Glider
– Herbie's Audio Lab

Adona Audio Racks I guess they call it independent support system. It was a nice rack and since it was close to my home a big savings on shipping.

I would say, my racks are about the same weight about 100-135 lbs

No spikes on the tile, but I did use Cone/Spike Puckies
– Herbie's Audio Lab

Just place the equipment on the shelf, no footers were needed. The way I look at it, if the needle on my gauge didn't move, why waste the money on other footers under the equipment,. We are talking 2 " of thick maple for 3 shelves and under my TT,the top shelf (4th) its almost 3" of solid maple. Custom Furniture, Hi End Audio Stereo Racks and Isolation Platforms at Timber Nation.

Hope this helps

great looking wood rack, appears to be very hunky and solid.

yes; very much appreciate you going to the trouble to respond and adding all the links. it does help for me to understand why your results with Adona are dramatically different than mine.

having a concrete floor, but having carpet and flat footed racks and pucks on top of the carpet, using a mid level Adona rack......you are hearing the sandwich combo of the carpet/footer/rack bottom. and that Adona rack with the link is not known to me. i use 3 of the Reference Zero GXT Adona racks in my system.

Audio Racks, Modular Audio Video Furniture and Isolation Platforms at Adona Corporation.

i suspect your wood rack is solid and tight, and it appears that the shelves are solid and not adjustable. it's working better with your floor interface too.

the Adona shelves and top are adjustable and solidity relies on exact leveling of the shelf supports and then having each shelf mass loaded. so the design is more set-up dependent.

i'm guessing on a lot of what i'm saying, and i don't doubt your results. only that it all starts with the floor interface and rack solidity and whether those two things are synergistic. if you were to spike each rack through the carpet it would give you a more predictable compare of rack performance. otherwise it's a bit of serendipity......and where you find it. we are all here trying to assist the OP with his search.

when you jump up and down, the floor interface you are using will obviously amplify the resonance your phone senses. if the Adona rack was spiked, and mass loaded effectively, that 'spring-effect' would not be happening. that is what happens in my room.

as far as the Herbie's footers; i've not used them so i have no idea of their positive or negative contributions.

personally as i have the Adona racks installed in my system i am very satisfied by them.

**CPP** · July 25, 2020, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

great looking wood rack, appears to be very hunky and solid.

yes; very much appreciate you going to the trouble to respond and adding all the links. it does help for me to understand why your results with Adona are dramatically different than mine.

having a concrete floor, but having carpet and flat footed racks and pucks on top of the carpet, using a mid level Adona rack......you are hearing the sandwich combo of the carpet/footer/rack bottom. and that Adona rack with the link is not known to me. i use 3 of the Reference Zero GXT Adona racks in my system.

Audio Racks, Modular Audio Video Furniture and Isolation Platforms at Adona Corporation.

i suspect your wood rack is solid and tight, and it appears that the shelves are solid and not adjustable. it's working better with your floor interface too.

the Adona shelves and top are adjustable and solidity relies on exact leveling of the shelf supports and then having each shelf mass loaded. so the design is more set-up dependent.

i'm guessing on a lot of what i'm saying, and i don't doubt your results. only that it all starts with the floor interface and rack solidity and whether those two things are synergistic. if you were to spike each rack through the carpet it would give you a more predictable compare of rack performance. otherwise it's a bit of serendipity......and where you find it. we are all here trying to assist the OP with his search.

when you jump up and down, the floor interface you are using will obviously amplify the resonance your phone senses. if the Adona rack was spiked, and mass loaded effectively, that 'spring-effect' would not be happening. that is what happens in my room.

as far as the Herbie's footers; i've not used them so i have no idea of their positive or negative contributions.

personally as i have the Adona racks installed in my system i am very satisfied by them.

Not a problem, its all about the end results and racks like cables is system and personal preference. Again the Adona rack was really well made, sturdy I liked it, but the wife happened to like the wood better and it fit my needs.

**bzr** · July 26, 2020, 03:15 AM

IMG_2901.JPG

This is what I consider a "hardwood" rack. This is 8" x 3" sleepers, pretty much the same size as what you will see under train tracks. What you are looking at is Australian hardwood, as in river red gum. This iteration weighed 400kgs, it did not resonate!

**paleo12** · July 26, 2020, 03:53 AM

Hah! You'd need a jackhammer to make that resonate.

**paleo12** · July 26, 2020, 03:59 AM

What do you think of Mapleshade's idea of having threaded rods as legs. It adds more mass for the size of the legs, and makes the distances between the shelves adjustable.

**FDPDK** · July 26, 2020, 04:43 AM

A rack that should be really good as far as what i have read is Esoteryx , but also cost a bit.
Artesania Audio - Artesania Audio

**aKnyght** · July 26, 2020, 07:07 AM

in my system the configuration that worked best on a suspended floor with oak hardwood is: isolation for the rack and coupling for the speakers.

in terms of a rack, i just received a core audio designs 3L plyCraft component rack. very happy with it. the shelves are mass loaded for extra weight. customized size is possible and they do ship internationally. it is worth reading the rack description on their web-site just for the information alone.

Component Racks | Core Audio Designs

**bzr** · July 28, 2020, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by paleo12

What do you think of Mapleshade's idea of having threaded rods as legs. It adds more mass for the size of the legs, and makes the distances between the shelves adjustable.

That would change resonance & dissipate it for the reason of from one shelf to the next it will become moot, as in the vibration has gone through 2 very different materials so it won't telegraph because of their different molecular structure, unless, the rods act as a multiplier. If so, footers are cheap. Me, I just used half a tree

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