Horn speakers that mate well with Shindo and those to avoid

[briguy]

I'm saving up to do a speaker upgrade later this year. I may very well end up trading my Shindo 604's toward the field coil Latours, but in the meantime I'd like to evaluate some other speaker options.

Aesthetically, I really dig a lot of what's on the market for horn based speakers but need a better understanding of what will mate well with Shindo and work in my room. My understanding is that it isn't simply a matter of speaker efficiency since most horns will be plenty efficient for my Lafon gm70's.

Even though I live in the San Francisco area, I suspect I'll need to travel to audition pretty much any horns. What are the specs / characteristics I should look for when whittling down a list?

Note, my room is 15' wide x 21' long (speakers on short wall) with 10 foot-ish v-shaped ceilings and the back right half of the room opens up to my dining room, giving bass energy a bit of an escape route. I'll need a speaker that can properly integrate in a room this size.

I almost definitely wouldn't want to spend more than what the Latours cost. In fact, I'd probably want to keep it under $55K and $35-40K would be ideal since I could then somewhat justify holding onto the 604's.

I kinda dig the looks of these Tune Audio Anima speakers. It's a 3 way passive design. Not a lot of reviews out there and I believe they are sold out of the UK, but they look great and price tag is around $35K.

Anyway, curious what other horn speakers are known or expected to mate well with Shindo. Thoughts?

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15853&stc=1

[Mike]

Although I have not heard the combo, on paper, the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's would be fabulous I bet. 107db/18ohm

Bring your Shindo amps over and we will try them on my Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's!

I heard Tannoy Westminister GR's with Shindo and was smitten. Great sound.

Mike

[Mike]

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2015/p01/avantgarde_1.jpg


These speakers look really familiar. I've seen them somewhere. :audiophile:

[briguy]

Although I have not heard the combo, on paper, the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's would be fabulous I bet. 107db/18ohm

Bring your Shindo amps over and we will try them on my Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD's!

I heard Tannoy Westminister GR's with Shindo and was smitten. Great sound.

Mike
As much as I love Sarasota, that's a long haul to make with a pair of mono blocks in tow. ;)

Would be cool to hear the Kronos too though. I was VERY close to buying that table.

[Mike]

As much as I love Sarasota, that's a long haul to make with a pair of mono blocks in tow. ;)

Would be cool to hear the Kronos too though. I was VERY close to buying that table.

Come on down any time for a listen. My Triode Statement 300b SET monos are damn good and will give you a taste...and of course, the Kronos.

[Paul]

That might be ended up very EXPENSIVE trip. Don't say we didn't warn you [emoji12]


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[Kuoppis]

As to the Avantgardes, even the smaller siblings Duo XD (below your price range) were reviewed very favorably in the last issue of the German Stereoplay magazine. As the bottom end is driven by an active 1000 wpc class D sub, the Shindo will do just fine driving them. To optimize the bottom end there is also a room correction system included.


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[kev313]

As to the Avantgardes, even the smaller siblings Duo XD (below your price range) were reviewed very favorably in the last issue of the German Stereoplay magazine. As the bottom end is driven by an active 1000 wpc class D sub, the Shindo will do just fine driving them. To optimize the bottom end there is also a room correction system included.


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Nice speakers but imagining them with Shindo makes my brain hurt. "Active 1000 epic class d sub." With Shindo. Active sub. With Shindo.

It might sound good. I suppose. I object only on philosophical grounds. Audio aesthetics, if you will. It's not you. It's me. Part of me wants to scream, "WTF is wrong with you people?!" But hey, it might sound good. I admit. On the other hand, sounding good and sounding Shindo good are two totally different things. It's not a result. It's a method. But there is a result and its reserved for the method. The other result might be good. But it's also achievable 1000 different ways.

[bzr]

Sounds like a nether region comment to me!

[Kuoppis]

Nice speakers but imagining them with Shindo makes my brain hurt. "Active 1000 epic class d sub." With Shindo. Active sub. With Shindo.

It might sound good. I suppose. I object only on philosophical grounds. Audio aesthetics, if you will. It's not you. It's me. Part of me wants to scream, "WTF is wrong with you people?!" But hey, it might sound good. I admit. On the other hand, sounding good and sounding Shindo good are two totally different things. It's not a result. It's a method. But there is a result and its reserved for the method. The other result might be good. But it's also achievable 1000 different ways.

You might be suprised, but I absolutely agree with you.

As the concept is designed, the class D sub takes care of anything that would be too much for a fragile SET amp. Hence, you can run them with almost anything for the mid and tweeter horns and hence optimise that end.

As to the concept as a whole, these have been very favorably reviewed, but I have three problems with it:

a) I am in general not a big believer in bi-amping, I find you easily loose coherence in the overall sound
b) I absolutely dislike class D amps, as I find they simply sound dead
c) I am not convinced you will get an acceptable sound with class D on the bottom end, even though you would combine it with very refined tube mids and highs

But again, that's just me. This is a purely subjective opinion and no measure for anyone else's ears.

Then again, just to flip-flop on what I just said, I am curious to hear how they sound and might give them a listen at some point. On the philosophical side, I am also a believer in life-long learning :).

[Mike]

You have to hear them to really know. They are absolutely and completely seamless (we are specifically talking about 150hz down for the bass). The SET is handling anything 150hz and up. Moreover, the XD tech ensures complete and perfect bass integration into any room. I have heard no other high efficiency (SET approved) speaker that comes even close to reproducing such "live" sounds. It is as close to live as anything I've ever heard. The dynamics and realism is off the charts. The top end and vocals are as sweet and lifelike as I've ever heard out of any high efficiency horn speaker.

The challenge with any horn is that you start out on the tipping point between heaven and hell. Pair the horns with hyper detailed thin soundings solid state electronics, edgy, thin digital and the wrong cables and you will be in hell. Pair them with a sweet SET tube amp, great musically rich sources and great cables (I think Siltech is the perfect match) and you are in heaven.

[Kuoppis]

You must know, Mike, if I am not mistaken you do have larger Avantgardes paired with very good SETs and the result is outstanding.

As said, I have not heard them yet, but maybe I do get a chance at High End in Munich.


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[Mike]

You must know, Mike, if I am not mistaken you do have larger Avantgardes paired with very good SETs and the result is outstanding.

As said, I have not heard them yet, but maybe I do get a chance at High End in Munich.


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I hope so, but I'm afraid it likely won't be a SET. Avantgarde likes to pair with their new SS electronics. Give it a listen and try to imagine with SET sounds. [emoji6]

Yes, I have the latest Duo Mezzo XD's paired with wonderful 8 watt 300b set amps. Trust me when I say, I get better dynamics with my AG's and 8 watt SET than my friend does with his speakers and 2000 watt amps!

[Kuoppis]

I hope so, but I'm afraid it likely won't be a SET. Avantgarde likes to pair with their new SS electronics. Give it a listen and try to imagine with SET sounds. [emoji6]

Would that then again be like trying to play piano with gloves on [emoji2].

[Mike]

Would that then again be like trying to play piano with gloves [emoji2].

Exactly. Like putting truck tires on a Ferrari.

[briguy]

Anyone know who these horns belong to?

Looks like some Shindo amps on the shelf there.

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15873&stc=1

[kev313]

Looks like a lot of Goto. Stefano might know who owns it. $$$$$$$$$


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[briguy]

Looks like a lot of Goto. Stefano might know who owns it. $$$$$$$$$


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i kinda thought they might've been yours from awhile back when you had that table.

I'm curious which drivers they are using. I wouldn't mind getting something like this custom built, but I'd need a knowledgeable advisor who wasn't secretly trying to sell me their stuff. :)

[kev313]

i kinda thought they might've been yours from awhile back when you had that table.

I'm curious which drivers they are using. I wouldn't mind getting something like this custom built, but I'd need a knowledgeable advisor who wasn't secretly trying to sell me their stuff. :)

I had an Oris based system when I used the Verdier. This looks like Goto drivers. Very very nice system. Very complex to build. They are usually 4 way systems and you will have to design and get all drivers, horns, enclosures, crossovers, etc.

A well built system will probably go over budget for either Goto or (especially) GIP drivers. If you are interested and don't know Stefano Bertoncello, I'd recommend that you reach out to him through FB or his blog.

Sweeeeet choice tho! It's for those that appreciate the art of system building - of process - and not just the result.

[kev313]

Actually....I'm wondering if that isn't a GIP system. I don't have the patience to navigate their website to check. If it is, you'd have to double your budget. At least.


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[briguy]

Actually....I'm wondering if that isn't a GIP system. I don't have the patience to navigate their website to check. If it is, you'd have to double your budget. At least.


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What's the point of having a budget if you don't have to immediately double it?!? ;)

[KeithR]

I would lob in a call to JH...no one would know better?

[kev313]

Good idea. Stop by ILS if they still have the LM Western Electric set up.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/4acff511e7c0d78ddb9c193c20cf87b8.jpg


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[briguy]

Good idea. Stop by ILS if they still have the LM Western Electric set up.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/4acff511e7c0d78ddb9c193c20cf87b8.jpg


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Yeah, I have them on my short list already.

Im warming up to the idea of having something custom built. I could start with building really nice horns and then upgrade the drivers as budget allows.

My goal, one day, is to become like one of these crazy Asian dudes with entire walls turned into bass horns and giant WE horns. :)

[briguy]

Good idea. Stop by ILS if they still have the LM Western Electric set up.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/4acff511e7c0d78ddb9c193c20cf87b8.jpg


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Or maybe something like that me tips that the Wheel Fi guys (Jefferey Jackson and pals) have built. Love the look of these. You can tell a lot of workmanship is involved. If they sound as good as they look...

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15880&stc=1

[kev313]

JJ is a cool guy. Email him and if he's not busy with other projects, he can build a custom horn system for you.


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[kev313]

Wheel Fi. That's new. I haven't followed his blog for a while. He built me a pre back in his "experience music" days. Before "myemia". He's a serial audio entrepreneur. Last I heard - and this was a rumor based on hearsay - he was building a monster system for the guy that ditched those huge custom one off Shindo speakers.


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[Bruce]

Last I heard - and this was a rumor based on hearsay - he was building a monster system for the guy that ditched those huge custom one off Shindo speakers.


These-

Bruce

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15884&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15885&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15886&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15887&stc=1

[fjn04]

How about MUSICAL AFFAIRS. 16 Ohm field coil I believe. Cheers -Don

[kev313]

How about MUSICAL AFFAIRS. 16 Ohm field coil I believe. Cheers -Don

I imagine you'd have a hard time demoing those without a trip. I've owned a pair of the Phy-HP Musical Affairs for 10 years. I love them, but I imagine that they'd be a sideways move from the Shindo. I'm guessing. I can tell you that the dealer in Chicago - Mehran at Sora - doesn't have a pair.

[briguy]

These-

Bruce

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15884&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15885&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15886&stc=1http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15887&stc=1
I always wondered why the guy who put this system together would get rid of the whole system at once. You know any details on these speakers, namely drivers used?

[kev313]

I always wondered why the guy who put this system together would get rid of the whole system at once. You know any details on these speakers, namely drivers used?

Just google "jbl potato masher" and enjoy.

As to the original owner, I don't think budget was a concern.

[Walter]

JBL 375 FC modded with Altecs, it seems that Shindo stays pretty safe away from WE drivers.

P.S. A speaker tab executed with a wire to switch between different levels seems not to be adequate for a multi-k$ system

[Cucumber_jones]

JBL 375 FC modded with Altecs, it seems that Shindo stays pretty safe away from WE drivers.

P.S. A speaker tab executed with a wire to switch between different levels seems not to be adequate for a multi-k$ system

Your wrong. Ken did make speakers with WE drivers.

I also do not agree on your opinion about a speaker that has the ability to be tuned for your system and room. This is a great option that Shindo provides on his speakers that most manufactures do not.

[Walter]

I also do not agree on your opinion about a speaker that has the ability to be tuned for your system and room. This is a great option that Shindo provides on his speakers that most manufactures do not.
It is, indeed. But on speakers in this class, I expect a rotary switch to tune the speakers, not a solution with a cable coming outside the cabinet and that has to be clamped to different positions on a terminal strip. And by the way, he has used rotary switches in his dividing networks, so no reason sonically to avoid them.

[Walter]

Your wrong. Ken did make speakers with WE drivers.


To what actual model in its speaker line do you refer?
I know that he did, but he doesnt do anymore.

[kev313]

To what actual model in its speaker line do you refer?
I know that he did, but he doesnt do anymore.

He made one with the WE 755. Might still be available if you ask.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160503/b1fda1d9f4cbf4a911b3d460090929b4.jpg

[Walter]

This is an old model, the pic has been on the internet for ages.
The fact that he refuses to use the LM copies seems interesting. Mostly what he regulary uses is cheap Altec stuff, that is going to be modified to field coil versions by someone.

[kev313]

This is an old model, the pic has been on the internet for ages.
The fact that he refuses to use the LM copies seems interesting. Mostly what he regulary uses is cheap Altec stuff, that is going to be modified to field coil versions by someone.

He who? Someone who? What?

By the way, I think that Shindo - the brand, that is - might have 755's on hand and could just be able to build this for someone who is interested. Not certain though.

[Cucumber_jones]

This is an old model, the pic has been on the internet for ages.
The fact that he refuses to use the LM copies seems interesting. Mostly what he regulary uses is cheap Altec stuff, that is going to be modified to field coil versions by someone.

Not sure why shindo would have any interesting in competing with their close friend Auditorium by using LM drivers. Who said shindo "refuses" to use these drivers. Did Ken share this secret with you before he passed away?

Huh? I have no idea what your second statement refers to.

I also really don't get what you are trying to get at.

[Walter]

>GOOD FREND FOR JESUS SAKE FORBEARE,
TO DIGG THE DVST ENCLOASED HEARE.
BLESTE BE THE MAN THAT SPARES THES STONES,
AND CVRST BE HE THAT MOVES MY BONES<

William Shakespeare

[kev313]

>GOOD FREND FOR JESUS SAKE FORBEARE,
TO DIGG THE DVST ENCLOASED HEARE.
BLESTE BE THE MAN THAT SPARES THES STONES,
AND CVRST BE HE THAT MOVES MY BONES<

William Shakespeare

I have pretty high standards for hilariously random audio forum pokes in the eye but this actually crosses the threshold into the land of wasted keystrokes even by my measure. I demand a refund for the data charges associated with reading the post and drafting a reply. Come out with it Wally. If you are trying to make a point about Shindo just put it out there.

[Cucumber_jones]

Seriously what the f&^% are you on about.

Admin Edit: Removed curse word.

[Mike]

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2015/p01/avantgarde_1.jpg


These speakers look really familiar. I've seen them somewhere. :audiophile:

I still maintain my original post is worth strong consideration.

Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. I'm driving them tonight with a 2 watt 45 SET based Yamamoto. Delicious!

[kev313]

I still maintain my original post is worth strong consideration.

Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. I'm driving them tonight with a 2 watt 45 SET based Yamamoto. Delicious!

Probably. But that's if you're just interested in audio stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess.

[Mike]

Probably. But that's if you're just interested in audio stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess.

Audio stuff? You're speaking of the desire for the entire Shindo setup - including speakers, etc?

[kev313]

Audio stuff? You're speaking of the desire for the entire Shindo setup - including speakers, etc?

Nah. Tea ceremony mostly.

[Mike]

Nah. Tea ceremony mostly.

?

Ok.

[kev313]

?

Ok.

I'm sure your speakers sound great with Shindo. Truly. I'm sure a lot of speakers do. On a fundamental level, there is a big difference between 15" paper woofers and vacuum tubes and class d mega watt room corrected bass. Again, probably both great in their own way. But consider this, are guys that are interested in Shindo tuned electronics - guys that like the idea that he selected this bit of wire here, that *specific* tube, cap, resistor - really going to be interested in Avant G's just because they sound good? Probably not. It's a philosophical mismatch. Who would be interested, then? Easy! Guys who are looking for that "best" sound who, in this case, came to Shindo because they think that is it and who think that your speakers are a good option for maximizing that "best" sound. Those guys do NOT really care about the approach of Shindo. That's cool but it doesn't speak to the core Of Shindo aficionados (can we use that term here? I just twitched and bought wire world cables reflexively.). The enjoyment goes beyond just good sound. It's in the process, the approach, the philosophy, the process, the ceremony, and the deeper meaning.

[Mike]

I totally understand and appreciate the Shindo philosophy and approach. But, I don't think he has Shindo speakers now, so maybe he's looking for something different?


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[kev313]

I totally understand and appreciate the Shindo philosophy and approach. But, I don't think he has Shindo speakers now, so maybe he's looking for something different?


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Doesn't have to be Shindo. To me anyway. This is just my point of view but I think plenty of speakers fit the bill: phy-hp, A23, Western Electric, altec. Maybe early jbl. Single drivers from Stephens-Trusonic could be fun. Explore any of the many horns and drivers that aren't prepackaged modern systems - GIP and others.

Learn about the historically great systems and move from there. It's an aesthetic. It a process of embracing historical references in modern systems. Dropping a huge modern glossy horn system seems so....cheap by comparison. Too easy. Too gear flippy floppy.

Again, this is just my approach to Shindo. It's not really my approach to hifi. Just Shindo. And it's infinitely more satisfying to me.

[Mike]

With older horn systems comes older horn problems. Keep that in mind. With mine, I get NONE of that and if you hear what I'm hearing, you would be amazed. I've heard no old horn speaker (at least one that can fit in a normal room), that comes close.

But hopefully the OP will chime in.


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[kev313]

With older horn systems comes older horn problems. Keep that in mind. With mine, I get NONE of that and if you hear what I'm hearing, you would be amazed. I've heard no old horn speaker (at least one that can fit in a normal room), that comes close.

But hopefully the OP will chime in.


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Until the next one comes out.

Western Electric 555 still considered the king by many and basically on v1, in audiophile speak, for, what, 80 years?

I'm sure your speakers sound great, Mike. As I said, the appeal of the approach isn't limited to sound (although really there is a type of sound that IS hard to get with new speakers and I'm sure is related to some kind of measurable distortions [emoji16]) and it isn't everyone's .... cup of tea.

[Cucumber_jones]

The op currently has shindo speakers.

[Face]

That's cool but it doesn't speak to the core Of Shindo aficionados (can we use that term here? I just twitched and bought wire world cables reflexively.)
I got a good chuckle out of this. :D

[Walter]

The problem seems that Shindo Labs has gone a long way from studying, copying and then modifying old gear to his standards and philosophy of a sound create producer.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.

[kev313]

The problem seems that Shindo Labs has gone a long way from studying, copying and then modifying old gear to his standards and philosophy of a sound create producer.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.

I cannot answer the question, but many very good points raised in your post. Thank you.

One question: Do you really see it as a "problem" that Shindo's work evolved from the earlier designs. I like the evolution of the work without having explicit reference to "version 2," "Mk. 3" etc. Everything seems unique but related and equally worthy of exploration without reference to an absolute. I'd love to have more experience with the vintage Shindo.

[Walter]

Life is never a problem, its a mystery.
And so is evolution of art. It should simply happen.
If someone only knows the actual Petrus, he knows a single state of this work. That doesnt make the component unlistenable, but to know more stages of evolution can be helpful in delivering context.
Yes, there is, has and probably never will be an absolute audio component which delivers the truth and only the truth. There can only be different layers of a sound creation more and more be evolved.
Thats the truth with Shindos work.
Its like driving a Mercedes from 1950 and today. Same brand, different car.

[Cucumber_jones]

While Walt's last two posts are interesting I cannot seem to find any relevance to this topic of this thread.

Perhaps if you have a point create a thread and it can be explored further.


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[Walter]

My Vote for WE Diphonic. That system can kick butts and at the same time sounds phenomenal.
http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15983&stc=1

[Bongo]

Sounds like kev313 is our resident expert on building horn speaker systems. I too considered assembling a horn system, but I bailed on that idea after realizing I'd be forced to do math.

Still, I like to tinker. I got intrigued the Townshend super tweeters that Stephen put on his Petite Latours. It was simple enough to plop a pair of Fostex T90A super tweeters and capacitors (and some of that surplus WE wire) on my Shindo 604's. They sound a bit hot right now, so I ordered a cheap pair of attenuators. I'm just playing, but I like what's happening. Sparkle and detail in spades.

Brian, is the idea to replace the 604's? If so, what sonic experience do you seek, other than the proverbial white whale? Have you considered open baffle designs? People who heard them seem to like Nelson Pass' open baffle Lowther with slot loaded woofer - it seems like a lower cost "paved path" option for DIY. I also like the look of Haigner speaker designs. I contacted David Haigner, and the cost is on par with FC Latours and beyond. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/02/cool-links-wwwhaignercom.html http://www.haigner.com He's a professional sound system designer that does his own speakers in very low volume. Thomas Mayer, a noted tube amp designer, is one of David's fans, and I'm sure that Haigner could design a system with the right impedance and sensitivity for Shindo amps. And, like most of us, I'd love to hear the A23 Hommage 22A system.

[kev313]

Sounds like kev313 is our resident expert on building horn speaker systems. I too considered assembling a horn system, but I bailed on that idea after realizing I'd be forced to do math.

Still, I like to tinker. I got intrigued the Townshend super tweeters that Stephen put on his Petite Latours. It was simple enough to plop a pair of Fostex T90A super tweeters and capacitors (and some of that surplus WE wire) on my Shindo 604's. They sound a bit hot right now, so I ordered a cheap pair of attenuators. I'm just playing, but I like what's happening. Sparkle and detail in spades.

Brian, is the idea to replace the 604's? If so, what sonic experience do you seek, other than the proverbial white whale? Have you considered open baffle designs? People who heard them seem to like Nelson Pass' open baffle Lowther with slot loaded woofer - it seems like a lower cost "paved path" option for DIY. I also like the look of Haigner speaker designs. I contacted David Haigner, and the cost is on par with FC Latours and beyond. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/02/cool-links-wwwhaignercom.html http://www.haigner.com He's a professional sound system designer that does his own speakers in very low volume. Thomas Mayer, a noted tube amp designer, is one of David's fans, and I'm sure that Haigner could design a system with the right impedance and sensitivity for Shindo amps. And, like most of us, I'd love to hear the A23 Hommage 22A system.

Perfect! The Absolute Sound.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160506/8706bf5400255965d7edc6944708bff7.jpg

[kev313]

Those guys in the boat keep trying the latest state of the art harpoons.


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[briguy]

Sounds like kev313 is our resident expert on building horn speaker systems. I too considered assembling a horn system, but I bailed on that idea after realizing I'd be forced to do math.

Still, I like to tinker. I got intrigued the Townshend super tweeters that Stephen put on his Petite Latours. It was simple enough to plop a pair of Fostex T90A super tweeters and capacitors (and some of that surplus WE wire) on my Shindo 604's. They sound a bit hot right now, so I ordered a cheap pair of attenuators. I'm just playing, but I like what's happening. Sparkle and detail in spades.

Brian, is the idea to replace the 604's? If so, what sonic experience do you seek, other than the proverbial white whale? Have you considered open baffle designs? People who heard them seem to like Nelson Pass' open baffle Lowther with slot loaded woofer - it seems like a lower cost "paved path" option for DIY. I also like the look of Haigner speaker designs. I contacted David Haigner, and the cost is on par with FC Latours and beyond. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/02/cool-links-wwwhaignercom.html http://www.haigner.com He's a professional sound system designer that does his own speakers in very low volume. Thomas Mayer, a noted tube amp designer, is one of David's fans, and I'm sure that Haigner could design a system with the right impedance and sensitivity for Shindo amps. And, like most of us, I'd love to hear the A23 Hommage 22A system.
Hey guys. Apologies, didn't get notified about all these posts. Glad to see some activity in this forum finally! :)

I love the Shindo sound. My only complaint about my current system is that it sometimes sounds grainy at the high volumes I like to listen at. Also, now that I've heard the level of realism my system can achieve, I can't help thinking that there are a few other levels to achieve. Music is the only thing that really captivates me (aside from the ladies). Life is short and I wanna see how far I can push the envelope of enjoyment.

Ive heard the Latour's, so I know there's another level. But it's gonna take me most of this year to save up for them. In the meantime, I'm also very interested in the work that some of the other builders using similar philosophies as Shindo are creating.

I'd absolutely be one of these crazy Asian dudes with the bass horn built into the house if I could. Maybe one day I will. But Kev is right in that I'm probably more inclined to look at builders using bespoke approaches over more modern manufacturing techniques, though I'm not religious about it.

Of course, the biggest challenge with these bespoke Western Electric disciple approaches is, aside from cost, the ability to hear the speakers in my system. My working assumption is that as long as the speaker is a good electrical match with a similar philosophical approach, the Shindo sound will still come through.

The builders I'm most interested in evaluating are Oswald's Mill and the stuff Jefferey Jackson and friends are doing. Both groups seem to share a philosophical approach in line with Shindo. Of course, both are also significantly more expensive options too. Hard to say if they are onto something better or just different until I get a chance to hear them in person.

Ill look ion into the speakers you mentioned though. I enjoy learning about various approaches, even if I ultimately stick with the all Shindo approach for now. :)

[Bongo]

Brian, I'll look forward to your reports as you head further down the rabbit hole... Many of us have looked down into the darkness with longing!

[Bongo]

Before I bought the 604's, I also considered the Tune Audio Anima and did contact Manolis Proestakis. The 6.3 ohm minimum impedance killed my interest.

[kev313]

I strongly urge you to brew a pot of coffee, head to the Klipsch forum, and spend the afternoon learning everything you can about the Jubilee. A semi custom product, but Roy D. at Klipsch can work you through putting one together if interested. A world class solution at under 10khttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160611/9991b9e52c7d8d7be98e7809dc0a9d52.jpg


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[bonzo]

This WE 16a with these horn woofers is for sale. GIP drivers. This is possibly the best system anyone will ever had. I have heard this without the woofers, so will visit hon again. He has got another pair of WEs http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=4296427638&

[bonzo]

I strongly urge you to brew a pot of coffee, head to the Klipsch forum, and spend the afternoon learning everything you can about the Jubilee. A semi custom product, but Roy D. at Klipsch can work you through putting one together if interested. A world class solution at under 10khttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160611/9991b9e52c7d8d7be98e7809dc0a9d52.jpg


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Hi which city can I listen to these in

[bonzo]

I have heard various Haighner horns btw

[bonzo]

My Vote for WE Diphonic. That system can kick butts and at the same time sounds phenomenal.
http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15983&stc=1

Where can I listen to the Diphonic? Are these like Silbatone with GIP drivers?

[kev313]

Hi which city can I listen to these in

Several. Many of the Klipsch members who've built them would probably have a fellow forum member over for a listen.


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[briguy]

This WE 16a with these horn woofers is for sale. GIP drivers. This is possibly the best system anyone will ever had. I have heard this without the woofers, so will visit hon again. He has got another pair of WEs http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=4296427638&

I'd definitely be down to build a system
like this. Even after using Google Traslate, I'm not 100% clear what is included here. Seems like one 16a horn with the two other horns and all GIP drivers for 35k euros. But then it says "price per horn system", so does that mean that all of this is one system or that each horn is 35k euros?

The translation:

Description: our showroom with me both:
Speaker System Western Electric 16A and Western Electric 30154-D replica horns each with GIP 555 and GIP 597 field coil drivers. System price per horn system without a subwoofer.
By appointment.


Country: Germany (04349)
Payment Methods: Cash on collection, transfer,
Delivery options:

[bonzo]

Hi I think the price is for the big 16a horn, with GIP drivers, but without the woofers.

[briguy]

Hi I think the price is for the big 16a horn, with GIP drivers, but without the woofers.

I don't think so. On second reading, it pretty clearly says that it is both the 16A and the 30154-D and also lists two different drivers.

[Arcade]

Before I bought the 604's, I also considered the Tune Audio Anima and did contact Manolis Proestakis. The 6.3 ohm minimum impedance killed my interest.

How come?

[Face]

How come?
+1.

A 6.3ohm minimum impedance is usually considered 8ohm nominal.

[kev313]

A general FYI to my Shindo friends, as detailed in the for sale section, I'm considering selling my field coil 604s and am entertaining offers.


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[Walter]

How come?

[kev313]

Walter, I'm moving. It's explained in the f/s post.


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[Walter]

But you are already planning for a new journey? Whats the destination this time?