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View Full Version : Tannoy and Shindo - A Match Made In Heaven?



Mike
November 8, 2014, 09:20 AM
Synergy. One of the hardest things to get right in high end audio. Often, pairing great brands together doesn't always work. Yes, working with your local dealer is also another short cut to synergy, but all too often, us audiophiles like to experiment on our own, before occasionally stumbling on a pairing that works.

I've had the pleasure of hearing Paul's Tannoy Westminister/Shindo system twice now. Both times, I've come away with such love for this combination. Paul's addition of a new CD player has also allowed his digital to work more synergistically with this great combination.

The Tannoy WestMinisters are now rated at 20 watts per channel minimum (instead of the previous 50). I've heard Paul's Westies with other amps and to be honest, there is just no comparison to the Westies/Shindo combo. Despite others who are financially motivated, I have no financial interest - only an interest in telling what I heard.

Listening to this combination gave me goosebumps - and this rarely, if ever, happens. It produced the closest absolute sound I have ever heard. The way this combination reproduced the ambiance of live venues was the best I have ever heard. I would consider this combination one of the top 5 I've heard, and maybe top 3 - and this is versus MBL, D5, Strads and other world class speakers you can purchase new today. One could argue that when considering gorgeous looks, efficiency, price, etc....it's easily in the top 2. All you need is a big room!

And yes, since I tell the truth, the Westies do things - many things - better than my own Strads. That's a fact Jack.

Paul's system must be heard.


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Petro85
November 8, 2014, 11:09 AM
great write up Mike but you dont want to give paul a big head now. :D lmao!!!!!
would you consider the jump from canteburys to westies a huge one or just better?
keeping the size factor out of your opinion? thanks.
Paul glad you have found such a great combo, congrats my friend!!!!

Jerome W
November 8, 2014, 11:11 AM
Cool !
Thanks for sharing Mike.
It has been my opinion for a few years now that Shindo amplification can be wonderful with many other speakers than Shindo and DeVore ones.
But my little experience with the Kensington and the Mini made me think that the Prestige line of Tannoy's love power.
I am glad to read that the little Montille ( is that still Paul amp's? ) can drive the big Westminsters.
Can't wait to get my CCQs back home from their check up.
Shindo is pure Magic in audio. I miss mine big time.


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Mike
November 8, 2014, 11:18 AM
http://youtu.be/XDzuJMQdFjg

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Mike
November 8, 2014, 11:20 AM
great write up Mike but you dont want to give paul a big head now. :D lmao!!!!!
would you consider the jump from canteburys to westies a huge one or just better?
keeping the size factor out of your opinion? thanks.
Paul glad you have found such a great combo, congrats my friend!!!!

Thanks Steve. Just as with their comparative sizes - the difference is HUGE - and the Cants are no slouches.


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Mike
November 8, 2014, 11:33 AM
http://youtu.be/WzzM_A5zhzI


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Paul
November 8, 2014, 11:41 AM
Mike Thank you for kind words . It's always nice to see you and pleasure to have you.

I'm so glad you enjoyed my system :) See you soon . safe trip back home.

joeinid
November 8, 2014, 12:51 PM
Paul,

Congratulations on having a great system. You've gear swapped your way to heaven. I'd love to listen to it.

Cucumber_jones
November 8, 2014, 12:53 PM
Great stuff. Interesting that your conclusion is a little different from your first visit!

Paul
November 8, 2014, 01:23 PM
Paul,

Congratulations on having a great system. You've gear swapped your way to heaven. I'd love to listen to it.

Joe, You are welcome to come anytime My door is always open for you. Thank you.


Great stuff. Interesting that your conclusion is a little different from your first visit!

Chris, I think my Westies just got broken in and the CD player that I had wasn't a good match with my system before...Hope Mike chimes in :)

Cucumber_jones
November 8, 2014, 01:33 PM
Well if this is the case I am super happy for you! This is great news. I would love to listen to this system some day. I bet it sounds as good as it looks.

cmalak
November 8, 2014, 01:36 PM
Thx for sharing Mike. Congrats Paul.

What is the new CD player that you are using that has made a nice difference for you? Can't tell from your signature. Thx

MDP
November 8, 2014, 02:03 PM
Mike, thanks for the update on Paul's system. It must sound fantastic, as you and I have listened together and appreciate the same type of sound.

Paul, Congrats on your fantastic system :congrats:

I hope to hear it someday !

Mike
November 8, 2014, 02:53 PM
Great stuff. Interesting that your conclusion is a little different from your first visit!

Paul's Mc CD player wasn't up to snuff. He has things dialed in now.


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arthurs
November 8, 2014, 11:26 PM
Someday I will make my way to hear Paul's system, Joe too! My West's are breaking in and I'm going to hear Shindo gear on the 21st and Line Magnetic next week. Lots of fun ahead!

joeinid
November 8, 2014, 11:32 PM
Welcome to the forum arthurs! Thank you for joining.

arthurs
November 8, 2014, 11:52 PM
Thanks Joe! We chatted in the past about the Rogers Fidelity, how do you think the LM compares?

joeinid
November 9, 2014, 12:10 AM
I heard the Rogers briefly on Magico S3 (I think) and I thought it was really nice. The LM is an SET while the Rogers is a more conventional tube amp (not sure the best way to describe it) with triode and ultralinear mode. If you need the power for less efficient speakers, there is no question that the Rogers will be better. However, if you can get away with 24 wpc, in my mind, there will be no question that the LM will be more toward my taste. The LM has tremendous 3D, full meaty tone, sweet highs and amazing bass and fullness. There is an undeniable sense of ease with a big and wide soundstage that you can seemingly walk into. Vocals, especially female, to die for. With a little tube rolling, the LM gets better.

What speakers are you planning to use?

Paul
November 9, 2014, 12:30 AM
Someday I will make my way to hear Paul's system, Joe too! My West's are breaking in and I'm going to hear Shindo gear on the 21st and Line Magnetic next week. Lots of fun ahead!
Art !!! Finally !!! So glad to see you here. Welcome to AS.

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 12:32 AM
Thanks Joe, that makes sense and wasn't a good comparison question now that I re-read it. Speakers are going to be Tannoy Westminster GR, have Raven Audio gear here right now, Melody 845 monos here, going to hear Shindo in Cleveland in a couple weeks, LM next week and getting Dehavilland KE50-A as well as Purity Audio 300B and Reference pre sent for audition at my place. Whew, gonna be fun and busy for a few weeks.

Mike
November 9, 2014, 12:33 AM
Welcome Art. Congrats on the Westies!


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arthurs
November 9, 2014, 12:33 AM
Hey Paul! Great to be here!

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 12:36 AM
Thanks Mike, Westies are great so far. Paul was a pretty big influencer as I dove in without audition. Really happy I made that move.

Mike
November 9, 2014, 12:41 AM
You're very lucky Art. They are truly world class.


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Paul
November 9, 2014, 12:52 AM
Hey Paul! Great to be here!
Post pics for us :) you have most wonderful looking room

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 01:04 AM
http://audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8551&stc=1I'll get better pics at some point but here's a quick one from my phone.

Paul
November 9, 2014, 01:27 AM
Excellent how is the Raven sounds art ?

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 01:30 AM
Very nice, PP use of 300B gives you some power with all the good things the 300B brings. Built really well. I'm putting some Melody 845 Monos in tomorrow.

Paul
November 9, 2014, 01:38 AM
I found my Westies fully broken in about 400 to 500 hours.

Looking forward to hear your impression on different gears. Art.

joeinid
November 9, 2014, 01:38 AM
Very nice, PP use of 300B gives you some power with all the good things the 300B brings. Built really well. I'm putting some Melody 845 Monos in tomorrow.

Beautiful room and setup. I bet the Melody will be amazing.

Glareskin
November 9, 2014, 03:40 AM
Beautiful room and setup. I bet the Melody will be amazing.
I agree, beautiful room! Congrats Art. I see there are bass traps in the corners but what are the openings in the back wall? Is it an acoustical trick?

Jerome W
November 9, 2014, 04:01 AM
Yes,
A superb system Art.
I 'm sure those Westminsters sound wonderful.


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Julot
November 9, 2014, 07:57 AM
So Mike (and others), what would you say it is that the Westminsters do better than the Strads? How much would you say it is about having fewer drives.

Goosebumps really are a good measure.

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 09:34 AM
Thanks guys, didn't mean to derail the thread. The floating wall is actually an acoustic membrane that does absorption and diffusion due to build and materials of its different sections. The shelves/openings are strictly aesthetic though.

Mike
November 9, 2014, 09:50 AM
So Mike (and others), what would you say it is that the Westminsters do better than the Strads? How much would you say it is about having fewer drives.

Goosebumps really are a good measure.

We cannot separate the Shindo gear out of the equation. With other amps (or a mismatch between the Shindo preamp and all the other amps we tried), the Westies were not reaching their full potential.

So when everything is together, they scale bigger. The soundstage is so precise that I can almost count where the third violinist is sitting. They are pitch perfect. And most importantly, they take all the things I love about the Strads including the cabinet that it tuned perfectly to sing along with the music in a perfect manner allowing you to feel the music in your whole body to next level. They are a big speaker that plays big, with such soul and such precision.

And no, I'm not selling my Strads and getting Westies. I don't have the room. I also don't have the room for D5's, MBL 101Xtremes and lots of other speakers I love. Plus, the Strads get me 95% of the way there and work perfectly in my room.


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MDP
November 9, 2014, 10:23 AM
Welcome Art ! Beautiful system !!!!

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 10:48 AM
Welcome Art ! Beautiful system !!!!
Thanks Mark, where are you in North Texas? I'm in North Fort Worth. Mike, which brands of non-Shindo amps did you find mated best with Shindo preamps and which did not? Was there a specific set of specs that mated better with Shindo pre's?

MDP
November 9, 2014, 06:53 PM
Thanks Mark, where are you in North Texas? I'm in North Fort Worth. Mike, which brands of non-Shindo amps did you find mated best with Shindo preamps and which did not? Was there a specific set of specs that mated better with Shindo pre's?

I'm in Keller.

arthurs
November 9, 2014, 07:26 PM
I'm in Keller.

We'll have to get together sometime! I'm over just North of Saginaw.

Jerome W
November 10, 2014, 02:05 AM
To me, the only "problem" with the Westminsters is their size / shape. These are speakers for Lords who live in castles !

The only room where they could go in my house is in the main system but they will look huge there. Anyway they will never make their way in the french stairs to the second floor of the house.
So I will never listen to them !
I prefer not knowing what I'm loosing ! :D


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NOLG4EVR
November 10, 2014, 03:16 AM
Paul's Mc CD player wasn't up to snuff. He has things dialed in now.


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Amazing that an unknown cd player can change an opinion so much.

From rolled off and poor dynamics to possibly the top 2 systems ever heard, even better than Strad's with top tier gear.

How quickly an opinion can change.

Very interesting.

Mike
November 10, 2014, 08:07 AM
Huh? Where did I say that? Paul mentioned his Mc CD player was rolled off.

What is your problem?

dlb2
November 10, 2014, 08:42 AM
Amazing that an unknown cd player can change an opinion so much.

From rolled off and poor dynamics to possibly the top 2 systems ever heard, even better than Strad's with top tier gear.

How quickly an opinion can change.

Very interesting.
What's the matter, you don't think that a different source can have such a profound effect on the overall sound of a system?

Is it not okay for someone to change their mind a little toward a piece or pieces of gear. Should we all just be stuck in our ways after we turn 30 and bitch and moan about how things aren't like they used to be? Not all of us are here just to chime in every now and then to show what an ass we can be.

kev313
November 10, 2014, 09:06 AM
Amazing that an unknown cd player can change an opinion so much.

From rolled off and poor dynamics to possibly the top 2 systems ever heard, even better than Strad's with top tier gear.

How quickly an opinion can change.

Very interesting.

Sometimes it could be the source. Could be the cables. Reviewing is hard.


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Paul
November 10, 2014, 09:14 AM
Amazing that an unknown cd player can change an opinion so much.

From rolled off and poor dynamics to possibly the top 2 systems ever heard, even better than Strad's with top tier gear.

How quickly an opinion can change.

Very interesting.
JJ. Let me clear on this.

When first time he came to my house. I didn't have the full shindo gears and No analog set up this was actually first time he heard full shindo gears with proper analog set up. ( you know how good they are together :) )

Also I didn't mention the CD player to you coz Its not mine. anyway it's only an oppo 105 cd player that I borrowing from Mark Jones and the difference is day and night compare to my Mc Cd player. It was rolled off and too warm. Not my liking either Mike.

Also Mike heard the O96 with Allnic int amp on my system
again the problem is my cd player :( it's a Sony cd player (20 yrs old with dollar cable ) the missing information is coming from that source. I was listening last night and as you know how much I love the O96 I agree on his comments. JJ when he comes next time I will let him hear them with full shindo gears with O96 . I'm sure he will change on his first impression and I hope you won't upset about it ;)

Mike was in this industry for a long time and also he's a musician . I do respect him on his opinion.

Also this is world's best friendly audio forum. Please let's keep it that way. Shall we ? :)

Mike
November 10, 2014, 09:16 AM
I have never heard Paul's full Shindo system until last Friday so I don't understand JJ's comment. I heard his Westies prior with McIntosh and Allnic and was very impressed. How impressed? Well, I ordered a pair of Canterbury's on the spot. The Cants didn't stay because of sound but because of space!

But listening Friday at Paul's was full Shindo and full wow. The Shindo gear took the Westies to a whole new level.

So yes, fully broken in Westies (according to Paul), Shindo amp, Shindo preamp, new CD player was wow.

Before making accusations - get your facts straight. But if you don't think a Shindo amp, Shindo preamp and new source would have that much of an impact, then you're missing something.


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Mike
November 10, 2014, 09:27 AM
Also Mike heard the O96 with Allnic int amp on my system
again the problem is my cd player :( it's a Sony cd player (20 yrs old with dollar cable ) the missing information is coming from that source. I was listening last night and as you know how much I love the O96 I agree on his comments.

Thank you Paul. I was beginning to think I was going crazy!

Let's take the Oppo upstairs and connect it to the O/96's next time I'm over (probably this coming Sunday since I'm flying back to Canada on Saturday)?


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Paul
November 10, 2014, 09:43 AM
Of cause Mike let's have fun with Orangutan.

Back to this topic.

I absolutely love my Westies and shindo sounds together !!!

dlb2
November 10, 2014, 10:07 AM
Paul, you mean you haven't blown that little green amp up yet trying to drive those inefficient speakers with their 15" drivers?
I'm glad you've been able to put together your own system, with your own ideas of gear and have it work so well together.
If the Montille sounds terrific with the Westies I wonder how something like a CCQ would sound?

Sent from my HTC One.

Paul
November 10, 2014, 10:39 AM
Paul, you mean you haven't blown that little green amp up yet trying to drive those inefficient speakers with their 15" drivers?
I'm glad you've been able to put together your own system, with your own ideas of gear and have it work so well together.
If the Montille sounds terrific with the Westies I wonder how something like a CCQ would sound?



Ha! I guess my speakers are not shindo worthy.

I love the synergy together .... actually JJ should take the credit coz he was the one who let me hear the full shindo gears in his beautiful home. Thank you

Sadly the CCQ is no longer available and I was really hoping to hear them.

Petro85
November 10, 2014, 11:08 AM
haha!!! if Mike says shindo is incredible with westies, i for one am a believer, guys owned more gear and speakers than i have albums.
maybe you guys should step out of the line and think for yourselves and go hear other gear mixed in with yours not just blindly follow the leader, and buy what he tells you to buy, you may find that is a more pleasurable experience. and not be so damn critical or take it so personal when someone doesnt agree with your opinion. geez im here to learn about all things audio not defend my purchases. you should try it!!!

Jack
November 10, 2014, 11:29 AM
Paul

If you like the look of the McIntosh CD player and it still functions, would you consider just trying different DAC's with it. A while back Mark had a very good W4S DAC 2 for a good deal. There should be a lot of options in your area to try with those. Maybe Adrian has the W4S that you can try.

Paul
November 10, 2014, 11:37 AM
Paul

If you like the look of the McIntosh CD player and it still functions, would you consider just trying different DAC's with it. A while back Mark had a very good W4S DAC 2 for a good deal. There should be a lot of options in your area to try with those. Maybe Adrian has the W4S that you can try.

Thank you Jack. Good idea I was thinking about the Bryston BDA or Allnic DAC

arthurs
November 10, 2014, 04:51 PM
Thank you Jack. Good idea I was thinking about the Bryston BDA or Allnic DAC

Paul, don't forget to look at that good Canadian company Meitner/EMM. Love my DAC-2X, haven't heard the other two mentioned though, YMMV.

KeithR
November 10, 2014, 05:52 PM
Very nice, PP use of 300B gives you some power with all the good things the 300B brings. Built really well. I'm putting some Melody 845 Monos in tomorrow.

arthurs- the 845C tube works well in the Melodys. it will take the power down a few watts though.

arthurs
November 10, 2014, 10:33 PM
Got shipping notice today that Purity Audio Design are sending me their 300B monos and Reference preamp, I've heard this combo before on Acoustic Zen speakers and it was sublime, can't wait to hear it in my room with the Westies...

Mike
November 10, 2014, 10:38 PM
Congrats Art!

Looking forward to your impressions.


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arthurs
November 10, 2014, 10:42 PM
Congrats Art!

Looking forward to your impressions.


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Thanks Mike, I just realized I'm over-saturating myself with demos, but I'm over the moon for the Westies and it has me wanting to pair them with the right setup and I don't think my Dartzeel is it, so might as well listen to all this gear while people are willing to let me. I will definitely post impressions.

Jack
November 10, 2014, 10:49 PM
arthurs

Bill Baker of Purity Audio Design/Response Audio is a really one of the good guys. I have dealt with him off and on for almost 15 years since when he was the largest Jolida dealer in the U.S. His own gear is well thought of.

arthurs
November 10, 2014, 10:55 PM
Jack, I know Bill and Joe of Purity really well and couldn't agree more. I have watched them evolve the Purity brand and designs and think they have some real winners here, can't wait!

Jack
November 10, 2014, 11:16 PM
Hope you enjoy. Just communicated with Bill a couple of weeks ago about the Clarity Wires IC's I bought years ago as I couldn't remember which color coded jacket was which flavor.

Jack
November 11, 2014, 12:21 AM
Paul

The audio world is full of great sounding DAC's for reasonable prices. Don't think you need to spend five figures in this ever changing market to get "good" digital sound. If you want to buy from Mark, I would look at the BDA-2. If that doesn't do it for you then you have a multitude of good dealers in the GTA to work with. I bought the W4S DAC-2 for half price like Mark had it because that technology is always changing and I am mostly vinyl anyway. Your priorities may be different.

Paul
November 11, 2014, 01:22 AM
Paul

The audio world is full of great sounding DAC's for reasonable prices. Don't think you need to spend five figures in this ever changing market to get "good" digital sound. If you want to buy from Mark, I would look at the BDA-2. If that doesn't do it for you then you have a multitude of good dealers in the GTA to work with. I bought the W4S DAC-2 for half price like Mark had it because that technology is always changing and I am mostly vinyl anyway. Your priorities may be different.

Jack. Funny Mark and I were talked about the same thing today . Don't spend the too much money on digital ( just like HT stuff something new will come every other year ) I had the BDP and BDA2 not too long ago and thinking hard to buy them again on BDA3 with just OPPO as spinner.

Thanks again Jack for your thoughtful words. ;)

MDP
November 11, 2014, 08:10 AM
Got shipping notice today that Purity Audio Design are sending me their 300B monos and Reference preamp, I've heard this combo before on Acoustic Zen speakers and it was sublime, can't wait to hear it in my room with the Westies...

Congrats Art !!

KeithR
November 11, 2014, 11:57 AM
I owned the BDA-2 and while decent, I picked up a used Berkeley which was dramatically better. I've owned it for 4 years now. They are dirt cheap on Audiogon, if you don't require USB.

Analog $ go way further than digital $ these days imo.

Petro85
November 11, 2014, 03:33 PM
Analog $ go way further than digital $ these days imo.
funny it seems if you have a state of the art digital player these days, wait a week and it wont be state of the art anymore.

MDP
November 11, 2014, 04:54 PM
Jack. Funny Mark and I were talked about the same thing today . Don't spend the too much money on digital ( just like HT stuff something new will come every other year ) I had the BDP and BDA2 not too long ago and thinking hard to buy them again on BDA3 with just OPPO as spinner.

Thanks again Jack for your thoughtful words. ;)

Paul, you really need to try a Lumin in your system, seriously.

arthurs
November 11, 2014, 05:12 PM
Paul, you really need to try a Lumin in your system, seriously.

Mark, is there a local dealer in DFW?

MDP
November 11, 2014, 07:45 PM
Mark, is there a local dealer in DFW?

My dealer in Tyler. David Baskin @ Design Audio Video.

arthurs
November 11, 2014, 08:20 PM
Thanks Mark, which Lumin model are you using? DOH! Just saw it in your signature.

MDP
November 11, 2014, 09:11 PM
Thanks Mark, which Lumin model are you using? DOH! Just saw it in your signature.

Art, right now I am using an S1 that I have on loan. I'm selling my A1, Mike has an ad on Agon for me. The S1 and A1 are both great, it's very system dependent. But I can tell you one thing about a Lumun streamer, I no longer care about spinning discs or whatever is the next great DAC. I'm done as far as digital goes. I never even think about anything else.

still-one
November 11, 2014, 09:49 PM
funny it seems if you have a state of the art digital player these days, wait a week and it wont be state of the art anymore.

That goes for everything in this hobby.

sharkmouth
November 11, 2014, 10:17 PM
Art, right now I am using an S1 that I have on loan. I'm selling my A1, Mike has an ad on Agon for me. The S1 and A1 are both great, it's very system dependent. But I can tell you one thing about a Lumun streamer, I no longer care about spinning discs or whatever is the next great DAC. I'm done as far as digital goes. I never even think about anything else.


...it's called vinyl!! :snicker:

MDP
November 11, 2014, 11:30 PM
...it's called vinyl!! :snicker:

Oh Kev, you know I love my vinyl ! Tonight's an all vinyl evening !!!!!!

Just saying, as far as digital goes, it's a Lumin, cause it doesn't sound digital.

Paul
November 12, 2014, 02:40 AM
Paul, you really need to try a Lumin in your system, seriously.
Its on my list :) for now I'm enjoying my new Classic 3 :)

sharkmouth
November 12, 2014, 03:52 AM
Its on my list :) for now I'm enjoying my new Classic 3 :)


Paul, I've heard about the cart you have & a great table too. Really enjoyed my time with the Classic 1. Sounds like you are hearing some great sounds coming from your system.

Paul
November 12, 2014, 11:40 AM
Paul, I've heard about the cart you have & a great table too. Really enjoyed my time with the Classic 1. Sounds like you are hearing some great sounds coming from your system.

I thought this post made by Mark (MDP) didn't realize it was you Kev LOL

arthurs
November 16, 2014, 11:59 AM
Art, right now I am using an S1 that I have on loan. I'm selling my A1, Mike has an ad on Agon for me. The S1 and A1 are both great, it's very system dependent. But I can tell you one thing about a Lumun streamer, I no longer care about spinning discs or whatever is the next great DAC. I'm done as far as digital goes. I never even think about anything else.

Mark, can you comment on how significant the delta is between the A1 and the S1? I'm looking at all the associated "stuff" with my mac Mini and EMM setup and you have me thinking now....

MDP
November 16, 2014, 04:08 PM
Mark, can you comment on how significant the delta is between the A1 and the S1? I'm looking at all the associated "stuff" with my mac Mini and EMM setup and you have me thinking now....

Art, the two models are so close in sound that I didn't fully appreciate the differences until I pulled the S1 out of my system and put the A1 back in.
The S1 has tighter and more defined bass, and the air around vocals and instruments is a little better, maybe.
If your system could use a little more bass,and maybe a bit more of an analog sound, the A1 might be better.
If you need to tighten things up and add a bit more clarity, the S1 would be my choice.
Either way, you will end of with one of the most enjoyable digital experiences that money can buy.

arthurs
November 16, 2014, 04:23 PM
Thanks Mark, sent you a PM.

Kt77
November 18, 2014, 11:15 AM
Nice article Mike,

Thanks for sharing, and Paul........, it strikes me that you've great ears, as someone whom absolutely adores the sound of Shindo Labs, and have said since hearing them at Don Better Audio back in 2010, they're the best sounding tube components I've heard........, yet I can admit, I haven't heard everything out there, but of the brands I've - these have more of what I often refer to as a

" Human Element ", in that it's as if living, breathing human beings are performing right in front of me in such a manner, I can swear I smell Sade's Eau de Parfum as she walks by me to go onstage........., and in my mind, that's as real as it gets.

And what Steve said on the digital thing, holds true.

Enjoy her for many years to come Paul, you've chosen with your heart........., and that's wise I should add.

Paul
November 18, 2014, 12:14 PM
" Human Element ", in that it's as if living, breathing human beings are performing right in front of me in such a manner, I can swear I smell Sade's Eau de Parfum as she walks by me to go onstage........., and in my mind, that's as real as it gets.
.

OMG....she smiled at me last night LOL ;)

Thanks Oscar :)

Kt77
November 18, 2014, 02:20 PM
OMG....she smiled at me last night LOL ;)

Thanks Oscar :)

Paul........., trust me, from what I've heard, I believe you.

And, you're more then welcome.

Design Audio Video
November 18, 2014, 02:34 PM
I'm going to try to Tannoy and Airtight soon. I hope it is a magical combination. Westminster, ref pre and 211 amps. I think I am turning into a tube guy.

Paul
November 18, 2014, 03:17 PM
I'm going to try to Tannoy and Airtight soon. I hope it is a magical combination. Westminster, ref pre and 211 amps. I think I am turning into a tube guy.

Oh...My....you are killing me

sharkmouth
November 18, 2014, 04:21 PM
OMG....she smiled at me last night LOL ;)

Thanks Oscar :)


Paul, stop talking to my avatar!! ;)

arthurs
November 18, 2014, 05:44 PM
Paul, have you heard Air Tight? How would ATM3 and ATC2 compare to a good Shindo setup?

Paul
November 18, 2014, 07:55 PM
Paul, have you heard Air Tight? How would ATM3 and ATC2 compare to a good Shindo setup?
Art. I heard their Int amp with Harbeth SHL5 . I guess its not fair to compare with shindo and westies set up.

Bongo
July 2, 2015, 06:10 PM
Paul - this is an old thread, but I'm hoping you'll still get notice of my post. I put my speaker search on hold for a while, but I'm looking again. Thanks for your input in the thread I started about the O/96 versus Zu's. In February, I got the chance to listen to DC10 Britons with Dave the owner of DC10audio. The same day, a Santa Fe owner (probably known to several members) of a full Shindo rig, including Shindo Petite Latour field coils, graciously let me audition the PLs both with my Shindo Haut Brion and Aurieges. It was very interesting to compare the two speakers since I got to use my own amps. Both were quite different, but both were excellent! The DC10audio speakers are the real deal. The Shindo speakers were very refined, and they were surprisingly familiar to my ears, which were accustomed to my now dead Altec 14's! Both designs use horn loaded tweeters with base reflex boxes. I like certain horn loaded speakers, which leads me to ask you about your Westies.

I'm still considering a pair of DC10s and the O/96's, but I've ruled out Shindo speakers as being out of my price range. However, used Westies are often in my range. You and Mike have described the sound as being a knock-out with Shindo amps. Based on guidance from the Shindo dealer and the distributor, I always ruled out Westminsters due to their 5 ohm impedance dip, until I read Mike's review of your system. Now I'm interested again, but I'm still concerned about how they might match with my Haut Brion. Does the 5 ohm dip ever present sonic deficiencies or challenges to your Shindo amplifier?

Mike
July 2, 2015, 06:18 PM
I'm a little biased, but another speaker to consider in that price range is the Living Voice OBX-RW. Very tube friendly. I will have a pair on demo soon if you want to come hear them.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/02/d7b1382b4ef50449da5e0ddacaf2bc19.jpg

Bongo
July 2, 2015, 06:38 PM
Thanks Mike. New Mexico to Sarasota is a hike! ...I have been meaning to visit some friends in Orlando.

I did listen to Living Voice speakers with Border Patrol amps at RMAF 2012 - loved the sound.

Loop4fun
July 3, 2015, 12:28 AM
Craig, Did you get a chance to compare the GM70's with your HB powering the Petite Latour? If so, what were your impressions?



Paul - this is an old thread, but I'm hoping you'll still get notice of my post. I put my speaker search on hold for a while, but I'm looking again. Thanks for your input in the thread I started about the O/96 versus Zu's. In February, I got the chance to listen to DC10 Britons with Dave the owner of DC10audio. The same day, a Santa Fe owner (probably known to several members) of a full Shindo rig, including Shindo Petite Latour field coils, graciously let me audition the PLs both with my Shindo Haut Brion and Aurieges. It was very interesting to compare the two speakers since I got to use my own amps. Both were quite different, but both were excellent! The DC10audio speakers are the real deal. The Shindo speakers were very refined, and they were surprisingly familiar to my ears, which were accustomed to my now dead Altec 14's! Both designs use horn loaded tweeters with base reflex boxes. I like certain horn loaded speakers, which leads me to ask you about your Westies.

I'm still considering a pair of DC10s and the O/96's, but I've ruled out Shindo speakers as being out of my price range. However, used Westies are often in my range. You and Mike have described the sound as being a knock-out with Shindo amps. Based on guidance from the Shindo dealer and the distributor, I always ruled out Westminsters due to their 5 ohm impedance dip, until I read Mike's review of your system. Now I'm interested again, but I'm still concerned about how they might match with my Haut Brion. Does the 5 ohm dip ever present sonic deficiencies or challenges to your Shindo amplifier?

Jerome W
July 3, 2015, 02:12 PM
Paul, you mean you haven't blown that little green amp up yet trying to drive those inefficient speakers with their 15" drivers?
I'm glad you've been able to put together your own system, with your own ideas of gear and have it work so well together.
If the Montille sounds terrific with the Westies I wonder how something like a CCQ would sound?

Sent from my HTC One.

Heaven on Earth !
The CCQs are my best amps ever.

Jerome W
July 3, 2015, 02:15 PM
Paul, have you heard Air Tight? How would ATM3 and ATC2 compare to a good Shindo setup?

Like a trip in a Mercedes S500 and one in an airplane !
Shindo's approach to the musical signal is unique. It does not compare with anything else.

Bongo
July 3, 2015, 03:19 PM
Craig, Did you get a chance to compare the GM70's with your HB powering the Petite Latour? If so, what were your impressions?

Bill,
Not to railroad this thread, but we did compare them using his Shindo TT. It was really a dream! I was surprised at how wonderful the HB sounded with his equipment - exciting and alive, but also very refined through the Latours. I was even more surprised that I strongly preferred the HB to the GM70's, which came across as somewhat darker, less resolving, and with less punch. Steve said he liked the HB a lot, enough that he opted to spend most of our time listening to it with his Giscours pre. I coudln't necessarily conclude that one amp was better because setup is so important and it almost seemed like something was off.

My takeaway for this thread was that I'm going to limit my budget so that it excludes Shindo or the expensive Auditorium 23 speakers. I am intriged by the Westminster/Shindo proposition, only because Paul and aurthurs seem happy with theirs.

audio.bill
July 3, 2015, 04:07 PM
Heaven on Earth !
The CCQs are my best amps ever.
Jerome - Are you aware that you still have them listed for sale here (http://audioshark.org/amplifiers-155/fs-shindo-ccqs-monoblocks-6721.html#.VZbq5vlVhBc)? :huh:

Paul
July 3, 2015, 10:25 PM
Paul - this is an old thread, but I'm hoping you'll still get notice of my post. I put my speaker search on hold for a while, but I'm looking again. Thanks for your input in the thread I started about the O/96 versus Zu's. In February, I got the chance to listen to DC10 Britons with Dave the owner of DC10audio. The same day, a Santa Fe owner (probably known to several members) of a full Shindo rig, including Shindo Petite Latour field coils, graciously let me audition the PLs both with my Shindo Haut Brion and Aurieges. It was very interesting to compare the two speakers since I got to use my own amps. Both were quite different, but both were excellent! The DC10audio speakers are the real deal. The Shindo speakers were very refined, and they were surprisingly familiar to my ears, which were accustomed to my now dead Altec 14's! Both designs use horn loaded tweeters with base reflex boxes. I like certain horn loaded speakers, which leads me to ask you about your Westies.

I'm still considering a pair of DC10s and the O/96's, but I've ruled out Shindo speakers as being out of my price range. However, used Westies are often in my range. You and Mike have described the sound as being a knock-out with Shindo amps. Based on guidance from the Shindo dealer and the distributor, I always ruled out Westminsters due to their 5 ohm impedance dip, until I read Mike's review of your system. Now I'm interested again, but I'm still concerned about how they might match with my Haut Brion. Does the 5 ohm dip ever present sonic deficiencies or challenges to your Shindo amplifier?

Hi Craig. I loved the Shindo with Westminsters sounds and always will. I paired them with Vosne-Romanee, Dyquem monos, Montille CV391 and CC80. Each unit has their own unique sounds and loved them all. I found Shindo sounds very musical with Tannoys and there are lot of people enjoying them together. However the dealer I have in Canada and North America distributor are NOT helpful when it comes to purchase shindo gear.

They all say my speakers are not appropriate match with Shindo and so far all my emails has been ignored by the dealer and distributor since I do know I won't get any support by them why would I keep them so sold them all and no regret at all.

I don't know what your situation would be like....and hoping not like mine.

Whatever you decide please don't tell them you have speakers they don't recommend otherewise you will be treated like a ......

I listened Haut Brion and Cortese plus Auriegies with Devore O96 as well. They sounds great I found the HB was bit more polite but I'm sure it will mate well with Westies. I found 18 watts of Dyquem was more than enough power/gain to drive my 15" driver so Haut Brion wouldn't have a problem.

Hope this helps.

arthurs
July 3, 2015, 10:38 PM
I bought Paul's CC80 and they are outstanding on my Westies and have plenty of control. The Shindo setup will always be my primary option for my Tannoys. I have a great local tech who has gone over all my pieces and therefore I won't ever need the support of the dealer and distributor network, but agree with Paul on his perspective on that situation.

Jack
July 3, 2015, 11:05 PM
Good to see you back Paul. Since no Shindo, what's next.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 12:12 AM
Jerome - Are you aware that you still have them listed for sale here (http://audioshark.org/amplifiers-155/fs-shindo-ccqs-monoblocks-6721.html#.VZbq5vlVhBc)? :huh:

Ah ah ! Thanks ! I forgot this ad !
Closed !

Paul
July 4, 2015, 11:21 AM
I'm a little biased, but another speaker to consider in that price range is the Living Voice OBX-RW. Very tube friendly. I will have a pair on demo soon if you want to come hear them.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/02/d7b1382b4ef50449da5e0ddacaf2bc19.jpg

This would be great choice for HB . Love them

Paul
July 4, 2015, 11:22 AM
Good to see you back Paul. Since no Shindo, what's next.

Thanks Jack. I have no desire to change anything at this point. Love my NAF amp.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 11:33 AM
Thanks Jack. I have no desire to change anything at this point. Love my NAF amp.

Paul....
No more Shindo for you ??

Mike
July 4, 2015, 11:37 AM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/04/1fe88c6d75acc838c0ed99b917e98c3c.jpg

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 01:46 PM
Hi Craig. I loved the Shindo with Westminsters sounds and always will. I paired them with Vosne-Romanee, Dyquem monos, Montille CV391 and CC80. Each unit has their own unique sounds and loved them all. I found Shindo sounds very musical with Tannoys and there are lot of people enjoying them together. However the dealer I have in Canada and North America distributor are NOT helpful when it comes to purchase shindo gear.

They all say my speakers are not appropriate match with Shindo and so far all my emails has been ignored by the dealer and distributor since I do know I won't get any support by them why would I keep them so sold them all and no regret at all.

I don't know what your situation would be like....and hoping not like mine.

Whatever you decide please don't tell them you have speakers they don't recommend otherewise you will be treated like a ......

I listened Haut Brion and Cortese plus Auriegies with Devore O96 as well. They sounds great I found the HB was bit more polite but I'm sure it will mate well with Westies. I found 18 watts of Dyquem was more than enough power/gain to drive my 15" driver so Haut Brion wouldn't have a problem.

Hope this helps.

I missed that Paul.
So you got a wonderful sound from the Shindo gear with the Tannoys but sold the Shindo because you cannot have any support from the Shindo dealer and they do not want to hear about your Tannoys ???
Why do you care ? Any great tube technician can service a Shindo properly.
Not much different than servicing an old Mc.

Paul
July 4, 2015, 02:01 PM
I missed that Paul.
So you got a wonderful sound from the Shindo gear with the Tannoys but sold the Shindo because you cannot have any support from the Shindo dealer and they do not want to hear about your Tannoys ???
Why do you care ? Any great tube technician can service a Shindo properly.
Not much different than servicing an old Mc.

It's more complicate than just service issue. I am the customer also I'm in sales business and I treat all my customers equally no matter who they are. My customer comes to my desk and show me the interest in our product and service I respect their thought even if they are wrong. They are my customer and they are the one who bring the food to my table but I felt like a I'm a beggar on the street with them.

Don't you ever go to restaurant and loved the food but service was so bad make you never come back again ? that's how exactly I feel with Shindo dealer and distributor.

Shindo sounds good but I am sure there are lot of company equally good or even better to choose from.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 02:06 PM
It's more complicate than just service issue. I am the customer also I'm in sales business and I treat all my customers equally no matter who they are. My customer comes to my task and show me the interest in our product and service I respect their thought even if they are wrong. They are my customer and they are the one who bring the food to my table but I felt like a I'm a beggar on the street with them.

Don't you ever go to restaurant and loved the food but service was so bad make you never come back again ? thats how exactly how I feel with Shindo dealer and distributor.

Shindo sounds good but I am sure there are lot of company equally good or even better to choose from.

I get your point Paul.

But did your dealer tell you that he would provide no support because you are using the Shindos with "non recommended" speakers ?

Where I disagree is that I believe that the Shindo sound is very unique. I know how tough the dealers / importers are. They actually reflect Shindo's own philosophy on full system approach.
I went beyond all that and I am glad I did.

No other set up gives me this Joy.

Paul
July 4, 2015, 02:16 PM
I get your point Paul.

But did your dealer tell you that he would provide no support because you are using the Shindos with "non recommended" speakers ?

Where I disagree is that I believe that the Shindo sound is very unique. I know how tough the dealers / importers are. They actually reflect Shindo's own philosophy on full system approach.
I went beyond all that and I am glad I did.

No other set up gives me this Joy.

Jerome. I completely understand how they want to accomplish with system approach and I respect that but I am the customer I will choose what I like to listen/have in my room NOT them. I'm the one who suppose to be in control. I have more story to share but I will stop here.

I sent numerous emails to dealer ( three different sales rep/owner ) but nothing changed

Mike
July 4, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jerome - I know the background story and let's just say, I'm appalled at the treatment Paul has received. It's shameful really.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jerome - I know the background story and let's just say, I'm appalled at the treatment Paul has received. It's shameful really.

Hi Mike,
I am not surprised.
They have a "Bush" state of mind.
One is on their side or against them. Black and White world.
While the world is green :) !

Mike
July 4, 2015, 02:31 PM
You nailed it.

arthurs
July 4, 2015, 03:49 PM
They have lost sight of what it means to serve and build loyalty with customers. They seem to operate under the belief it's all product and brand and you are fortunate they will allow you to own it. Too many stories like Paul's tell me they don't get it and when you're that arrogant, you likely won't anytime soon. That's why I bought 100% outside the network, and have a brilliant local tech to support me. Worth noting his take of Ken's work after going through my pre and amps..."you can tell this was a religion to this guy, there's so much creativity, love and technical discipline in his design and build"

Paul
July 4, 2015, 04:02 PM
I just lost proud of ownership. That's it. R.I.P Mr Shindo San.

Cucumber_jones
July 4, 2015, 04:28 PM
I just lost proud of ownership. That's it. R.I.P Mr Shindo San.

Wow. This thread is going down hill fast. Not sure what to think about that last comment.

Mike
July 4, 2015, 04:29 PM
Wow. This thread is going down hill fast. Not sure what to think about that last comment.

If you only knew the half of it...

Bongo
July 4, 2015, 04:45 PM
I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

Cucumber_jones
July 4, 2015, 05:04 PM
I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

Sorry but that pricing is wrong. Devore have many suitable models that are priced lower than the O'96's. Auditorium also have speakers that are WAY lower then 35k.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 05:26 PM
The problems related to owning / buying Shindo are inversely proportional to the listening pleasure.

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 05:29 PM
I agree that the US Shindo operation doesn't give customers a lot of latitude or help when it comes to matching Shindo with other components. I will say that Glen at Arizona HiFi is very helpful and I have little doubt that he would help me try to assemble the best system, even if it mixed Shindo with other components.

However, for speakers, the distributor and dealers typically point you toward Devore, A23, and Shindo. That means your choices start with the $13k O/96 and jump to $35k-60k+ for the A23 or Shindo line. I recognize the intent to protect the Shindo sound, but I also agree with Paul that it would be smarter of the distributor to give the customer more "acceptable" options in their price range, even if not a brand they distribute, especially since they offer so few options for speakers.

Paul and aurthurs, I know you've already recommended Westminsters as matches for Shindo amps, without reservation. You each have the Westminster GR, but do you have any idea if the SE model would be a good fit for Shindo amps? A used set is more in my price range. I saw that Tannoy recommends 20 watts minimum for the GR and 50 watts minimum for the SE. Also, do you know why the difference between the two?

There are many other speakers that can match well with Shindo, than just DeVore, A23 and Shindo.

arthurs
July 4, 2015, 05:29 PM
The problems related to owning / buying Shindo are inversely proportional to the listening pleasure.

Amen Jerome....:congrats:

Jerome W
July 4, 2015, 05:37 PM
Amen Jerome....:congrats:

Thanks !
I will add that the official dealers / importers complain about grey market.
The truth is painful for them. Their infantile policy created the grey market. They will maybe realize it one day. But they seem too narrow minded to see the light.
I bought McIntosh, ARC, Wilson, A23, Nagra, AMR, Rega, from official dealers.
I chose the grey market for Shindo ( not so grey actually because I bought from an official Shindo importer ) because I had no other choice.
Moreover when I ordered the CCQs, the importer had to hide to Shindo the fact that they were for me. Shindo was not willing to sell them to be used with Wilson speakers and they knew I had Wilsons at that time.
There will always be a way to escape the established rules when these rules are a freedom denial.

Paul
July 4, 2015, 06:04 PM
This is what I meant. Why do we even need to talk about this ? We are customer and we suppose to buy what we want. Why do we have to worry about all these ? Why ? Hide from Shindo to get you the CCQ ? thats insane.

wisnon
July 4, 2015, 06:37 PM
I'm a little biased, but another speaker to consider in that price range is the Living Voice OBX-RW. Very tube friendly. I will have a pair on demo soon if you want to come hear them.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/02/d7b1382b4ef50449da5e0ddacaf2bc19.jpg
Yessss, very nice!

MDP
July 4, 2015, 09:17 PM
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/04/1fe88c6d75acc838c0ed99b917e98c3c.jpg

People have trouble dealing with the Shindo Nazi.

Bongo
July 5, 2015, 11:19 AM
Sorry but that pricing is wrong. Devore have many suitable models that are priced lower than the O'96's. Auditorium also have speakers that are WAY lower then 35k.

Sorry Chris. I forgot about the the A23 Homage 755, which was $20K or so (right)? However, I believe that the Hommage a Ken is at least $35k and they go up from there.

It's true that several 8 ohm Devore models are cheaper than the O/96, and even though they have lower efficiencies, I understand that they sound great with Shindo. My first exposure to Shindo was Monbrison/Cortese with 91db/8ohm Devore Silverbacks and I got hooked!

However, and I don't think that I'm overstating this, the distributor told me and wrote on forums that even 8 ohm speakers aren't the best match for most Shindo amps, which are apparently designed for 16 ohm loads. The Petite Latours that I auditioned with my amps in Februrary, sounded pretty sweet. In line with that recommendation, I'd prefer to find higher impedance speakers, or at least high efficiency (>96db) 8 ohm ones.

I previously excluded the Westminster SE's for use with Shindo amps because of their 50 watt minimum amp recommendation. However, after hearing of the positive experiences of Paul and arthurs, I wanted see if used Westies could expand the scope of my speaker choices, $20k and below.

Cucumber_jones
July 5, 2015, 01:07 PM
Sorry Chris. I forgot about the the A23 Homage 755, which was $20K or so (right)? However, I believe that the Hommage a Ken is at least $35k and they go up from there.

It's true that several 8 ohm Devore models are cheaper than the O/96, and even though they have lower efficiencies, I understand that they sound great with Shindo. My first exposure to Shindo was Monbrison/Cortese with 91db/8ohm Devore Silverbacks and I got hooked!

However, and I don't think that I'm overstating this, the distributor told me and wrote on forums that even 8 ohm speakers aren't the best match for most Shindo amps, which are apparently designed for 16 ohm loads. The Petite Latours that I auditioned with my amps in Februrary, sounded pretty sweet. In line with that recommendation, I'd prefer to find higher impedance speakers, or at least high efficiency (>96db) 8 ohm ones.

I previously excluded the Westminster SE's for use with Shindo amps because of their 50 watt minimum amp recommendation. However, after hearing of the positive experiences of Paul and arthurs, I wanted see if used Westies could expand the scope of my speaker choices, $20k and below.

Due to the nasty tone and direction of this thread I will be limiting my already limited time here.

My time has been limited due to spending family time. On the audio front I have so much satisfaction from the shindo/a23 system I have build with recommendations from JH and the dealers I don't need to spend as much time researching.

I will say though that the 755a A23 Hommage are closer to 12k. They are not 16 ohm and were very strongly recommended to my by JH and various dealers. They are almost broken in now and they are stunning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Katoomer
July 5, 2015, 08:36 PM
Guess I'm late to the party but I really don't understand the logic in selling equipment that gives you a great reward just because the dealer/dist does not agree with your choice of speakers. That Shindo gear could possibly last for many, many years without any trouble. If you do not like the way they treat you then don't give them your business. I love listening to music and quality sound. Sometimes I think we as "Audiophiles" are an odd bunch. This is just my opinion so please don't take it too seriously. Just keep the music playing.

Jerome W
July 6, 2015, 02:01 AM
Guess I'm late to the party but I really don't understand the logic in selling equipment that gives you a great reward just because the dealer/dist does not agree with your choice of speakers. That Shindo gear could possibly last for many, many years without any trouble. If you do not like the way they treat you then don't give them your business. I love listening to music and quality sound. Sometimes I think we as "Audiophiles" are an odd bunch. This is just my opinion so please don't take it too seriously. Just keep the music playing.

I agree fully.

Bongo
July 6, 2015, 11:28 AM
To be fair, while the whole "Shindo Nazi" thing is funny, it doesn't reflect my experience. I'm not saying that JH is always warm and fuzzy. I might expect admonishment from him if I used a speaker that was poorly matched to my amps - that has happened. But I've already had an amp die when using those speakers, and I'm totally confident that he and my dealer would service my amps because they already have!

People have to build systems over time, and often speakers are the last piece to add. My dealer at Arizona HiFi is very realistic and helpful about working with what I've got or within my budget.

Jerome W
July 6, 2015, 12:56 PM
I am very grateful to JH and Matt for popularizing Shindo in the US.
Without them, I would not be in heaven each time that I turn on my system.

KeithR
July 6, 2015, 03:01 PM
Shindo is more of a turn-key solution. Not sure why folks don't understand this. Has anyone actually talked to Matt Rotunda? He is one of the better guys in audio- and quite experienced (he worked at Sound by Singer and Innovative Audio in NYC for years). To say the Shindo dealer network is a bunch of hacks or "Nazis" is just wrong.

The other thing is Shindo isn't discounted. This is why several people on this forum aren't going to be rushing out to buy it. Its a different kind of sales process and more system oriented- which is perfect for some, not so for gearheads or people who like to mix and match.

KeithR
July 6, 2015, 03:09 PM
To be fair, while the whole "Shindo Nazi" thing is funny, it doesn't reflect my experience. I'm not saying that JH is always warm and fuzzy. I might expect admonishment from him if I used a speaker that was poorly matched to my amps - that has happened. But I've already had an amp die when using those speakers, and I'm totally confident that he and my dealer would service my amps because they already have!


I've said this story before, but he recommended only the Shindo monos for my 101db, 6 ohm Zu Definitions. I bought the HB through Matt who still thought it would be fine- and indeed it was a mis-match in my largish room at the time. I think the amps work best higher than 8 ohms- and the 16 ohm secondary winding on the HB in particular.

Bongo
July 6, 2015, 08:12 PM
I've said this story before, but he recommended only the Shindo monos for my 101db, 6 ohm Zu Definitions. I bought the HB through Matt who still thought it would be fine- and indeed it was a mis-match in my largish room at the time. I think the amps work best higher than 8 ohms- and the 16 ohm secondary winding on the HB in particular.

That's helpful to know Keith. I had 6 ohm Regas R5s that the HB couldn't wrangle.

I suspect that our fellow members with Westies have great performance overall, but I would bet that the frequencies where impedance dips to 5 ohms on the Westminster SE would result in a sub-optimal performance for my HB. Paul's and aurthers' GR versions are rated for 20 watts minimum versus 50 watts for the SE version - I imagine the GR mates better with amps like mine. However, I can't evaluate used SE Westies easily or at all with my amps. For my HB at least, perhaps the Westminster isn't quite a match made in heaven!

I really appreciate the chance to have these conversations with everyone here!

Jerome W
July 7, 2015, 01:51 AM
My CCQs drive the REGA RS10's just perfectly. They are much more difficult to drive than the R5's.
Of course the CCQs are much more powerful than the HB.

mr_scratchy_esq
July 15, 2015, 09:36 AM
Just throwing this one out there... I purchased a pair of used CC80's from an authorized dealer and they did NOT work well with my Tannoy DMT 15 IIs. This dealer thought they would work. My Tannoys are very efficient around 98 db 8 ohm nominal with an impedance dip around 5 ohms in the bass. I should have gone with the consensus that you need large SS amps to control my Tannoys (ala a Bryston 4B SST - which I'm still using) but I really wanted to try the Shindos :) .

Anyhow, if you scour the forums re: speakers to use w/ Shindo JH does not recommend Devore either... I know Paul was happy with his Tannoy / Shindo combo but I'm guessing that his particular Tannoys were a better match. I'm going to stick with Tone Imports recommendation to use high impedance, high efficiency speakers with low mass drivers- no rubber surrounds etc. if I decide to try a Shindo amp again....

mr_scratchy_esq
July 15, 2015, 09:42 AM
Vintage Tannoy Red, Silver or Black speakers probably would be a good match - 16 ohms, paper surrounds, high efficiency.