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NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 01:26 AM
My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

Paul
August 23, 2014, 01:48 AM
I'm so sorry to hear that. However one of MC275 was doing the same thing to me ( failure 3 times with KT88nd the 5 fuses were blown ) some how since then no more problem. I guess it could be just bad luck. Well what do I know.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:49 AM
My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

Hi JJ. Sorry to read this.
Do not take the decision to part from them just because of a fuse after some tube failures. I had one of the fuse of one of my CCQ blow away 2 months ago. Fuses are here to blow and that is good when they do.
Many things can happen when you power on a tube amplifier.
Unfortunately our domestic AC current can be of very poor quality during very short time. You want the fuse to blow when this happens ! Do not blame your amp. Blame your AC company provider !

But I would still test your the tubes just to be sure. It could be a tube getting bad. Moreover, did you recheck the bias about 100 hours after changing the last 300B's ? If the bias changed and was not adjusted, you can have there an other reason for a fuse blow.

As many said before, tubes are by nature unreliable. They compensate this by sound quality. There is a price to pay for every thing in this world.

There cannot be any "design flaw" in your amps. Because they were made by one of the best tube circuit design experts in the world. Would you question a simple multiplication made by a Fields Medal mathematician ? Are you kidding ??

Now, the most reliable tubes on earth have your first name on them: JJ.
Please try them if it appears again that one GL is faulty. And be sure to set the bias correctly and recheck it after 50 / 100 hours.
Good luck buddy !

NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 02:13 AM
Hi JJ. Sorry to read this.
Do not take the decision to part from them just because of a fuse after some tube failures. I had one of the fuse of one of my CCQ blow away 2 months ago. Fuses are here to blow and that is good when they do.
Many things can happen when you power on a tube amplifier.
Unfortunately our domestic AC current can be of very poor quality during very short time. You want the fuse to blow when this happens ! Do not blame your amp. Blame your AC company provider !

But I would still test your the tubes just to be sure. It could be a tube getting bad. Moreover, did you recheck the bias about 100 hours after changing the last 300B's ? If the bias changed and was not adjusted, you can have there an other reason for a fuse blow.

As many said before, tubes are by nature unreliable. They compensate this by sound quality. There is a price to pay for every thing in this world.

There cannot be any "design flaw" in your amps. Because they were made by one of the best tube circuit design experts in the world. Would you question a simple multiplication made by a Fields Medal mathematician ? Are you kidding ??

Now, the most reliable tubes on earth have your first name on them: JJ.
Please try them if it appears again that one GL is faulty. And be sure to set the bias correctly and recheck it after 50 / 100 hours.
Good luck buddy !

Will do. Thanks Jerome. I am just so frustrated as every dozen or so times I turn these amps on they fail. Maybe I should try the JJ tubes. I just am hesitant to install tubes that were not originally supplied with the amps.

Whatever the issue is it really takes the fun out of just switching on your gear and relaxing to some good tunes. Now I just stress every time I turn it on to see if it works. iPod?? Maybe soon.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 02:21 AM
Will do. Thanks Jerome. I am just so frustrated as every dozen or so times I turn these amps on they fail. Maybe I should try the JJ tubes. I just am hesitant to install tubes that were not originally supplied with the amps.

Whatever the issue is it really takes the fun out of just switching on your gear and relaxing to some good tunes. Now I just stress every time I turn it on to see if it works. iPod?? Maybe soon.

I understand.
You should not be too worried in putting other tubes. Great tube designs do not really care so much about various tubes. You'll get very small differences in sound imho between GL and JJ. ( Of course, WE or Cetron may be clearly better but you cannot find them !) But with JJ you will have a much higher reliability.
Nagra uses 300B JJ tubes in their 300B amp and 300B integrated. And they both sound really fabulous.

NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 02:44 AM
I will try them. Nothing to lose at this point. Thanks for the advice.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 02:52 AM
I will try them. Nothing to lose at this point. Thanks for the advice.

As I said, they wear your name. That's a sign ! ;)

Petro85
August 23, 2014, 07:30 AM
just curious to what your dealer or shindo had to say about it?? did you buy them used or new? this should not be happening, and buying more tubes and fuses to try to fix the problem is not what you should be doing. i had a similar problem with a BAT amp. the one that i bought used was perfect and ran beautifully. the one bought new was a nitemare and every time i turned it on the same anxiety over what tubes or fuses were going to blow. after 3 trips back to Bat and 6 months of headaches i finally got it fixed and it was something small and stupid they kept over looking. once it worked properly i sold it immediately .
it should go back to the factory and get fixed properly , especially for the amt of money you laid out for them. good luck and let us know how you remedy the problem.

mep
August 23, 2014, 09:48 AM
Any amp that was this unreliable I would have dumped faster than a used prophylactic. This is supposed to be about a hobby that is fun and relaxing and not one where you sweat bullets every time you power your amp on. You have either had an incredible run of bad tubes or it's simply a defective design or a defective unit. You have already come to that conclusion and I agree with you.

dlb2
August 23, 2014, 10:39 AM
For the money spent on these amps they need to go back to the dealer and have them sort it out and give you a loaner until fixed. Swapping out all these tubes and fuses to have them continuously blow is BS.

Kt77
August 23, 2014, 10:59 AM
For the money spent on these amps they need to go back to the dealer and have them sort it out and give you a loaner until fixed. Swapping out all these tubes and fuses to have them continuously blow is BS.

+2.

BS is BS, and at their cost you should expect something more reliable. And I adore the Shindo sound more then any tube gear I've heard to date, but this seems freaking crazy to me, if all else fails?, I'd find a very good technician like Michael Samra over on AA, would fixed my beloved EL84 Integrated along with an ex-friends Sophia Electric 126S and now both are working up to par, without a hiccup to say the least.

But there's no way in hell, I'd just be writing this off, and it would've been sent back after the second incident. Good luck with this matter, but it saddens me to hear/see topics like this. But tube components do have their problems after all, and seem to need that much more attention compared to solid state - trade offs I know, but this is one of the main reasons I'm looking for a solid state backup, as one never knows..........

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 11:18 AM
I wonder what JH will recommend.


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Mike
August 23, 2014, 11:25 AM
I wonder what JH will recommend.


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Buy more Shindo worthy speakers. ;)


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blackdog
August 23, 2014, 12:08 PM
I certainly agree with others, that there may be an issue with the amp. It should get looked just to be safe.
But I suspect you will find the problem is with the Gold Lion 300B's. To date they are the most unreliable 300B out there. I've had bad ones right out of the box.
Had the same problem with Gold Lion KT88's a couple of years ago. Turned out to be a QC problem, and once sorted out no problems since. This 300B is relatively new on the market and I think there maybe some production issues.

KenSea
August 23, 2014, 12:39 PM
My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

Modern tubes just arent the same quality of the 50/60's tubes..........Sorry to hear about your problems . Maybe a solid state amp with your preamp......D'Augstino makes a wonder solid state amp. I have thought about this myself.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 12:44 PM
Modern tubes just arent the same quality of the 50/60's tubes..........Sorry to hear about your problems . Maybe a solid state amp with your preamp......D'augstino males a wonder solid state amp.

I cannot believe that you are suggesting a SS amp to a Shindo amp owner ! :D
I am not saying that the Dag is not a heluva of an amp, but still, JJ. loves Shindo.
There will be a solution to this problem. We are talking here about state of the art tube amplifiers.
One does not replace a Lamborghini by a Mercedes Sedan !



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KenSea
August 23, 2014, 12:58 PM
You allowed to have your opinion as I am sure you have tried the D'Austino, right?
Yes I use tubes too but one needs to keep their mind open and sometimes whats best for you is not best for all. So thank you for your opinion. After all you own Harbeth and must be a man of great taste and knowlege

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:09 PM
All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:


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KenSea
August 23, 2014, 01:13 PM
I will second that too, High end customers and high end product deserves the very best of service. Which I know Jonathan agrees too.

KenSea
August 23, 2014, 01:17 PM
Point proven you might listen before you speak and actually personally I am not a wilson fan but I have to say I had never heard them so good untill i heard them with D'Austino.....just a thought.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:18 PM
Point proven you might listen before you speak and actually personally I am not a wilson fan but I have to say I had never heard them so good untill i heard them with D'Austino.....just a thought.

So you should listen to them with Shindo ! :D


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Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:21 PM
Once again, I did not say that the D'Ag is not a terrific amp. I said that compared to Shindo, it is like apples and oranges. Would you recommend Magico speakers to a fan of Quads ESL 57 's ??


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XV-1
August 23, 2014, 01:29 PM
All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:


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Hi Jerome

D'agostino amp sounds Nothing like a Krell amp. I also disliked Krell. Dag has soul. Only ss amp I can live with.

Remember my friend, once upon a time you did not care for Wilson :D

If you get the chance to hear a Dag in your system, jump. Sounds great with tube and ss pre amps - very natural sound.

Love and happiness
Shane

KenSea
August 23, 2014, 01:32 PM
But once again, have you heard the amp? Do you know this as truth? Internet forum Kings have a way of knowing everything without even listening first. It may not be yours or mine cup of tea or it may be. Without listen you KNOW nothing, except your own preconceived notions
As far as the Maggie vs Quad issure some people want more foundation than the quad or LS3/5a can offer, Everyone has different needs and what satisfies one doesnt others and thats why there are some many designs and brands out there.I am not question your choice of reality but you jump to facts before having explored them. Your educated man, this comes from the same structure as any investagation

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:33 PM
Hi Jerome

D'agostino amp sounds Nothing like a Krell amp. I also disliked Krell. Dag has soul. Only ss amp I can live with.

Remember my friend, once upon a time you did not care for Wilson :D

If you get the chance to hear a Day in your system, jump. Sounds great with tube and as per amps

Love and happiness
Shane

Shane...

That was just a joke. The D'Ags received enough praise everywhere. It speaks for itself.
Anyway I am not trying / experimenting anything else. I am very happy "as is".


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Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:36 PM
But once again, have you heard the amp? Do you know this as truth? Internet forum Kings have a way of knowing everything without even listening first. It may not be yours or mine cup of tea or it may be. Without listen you KNOW nothing, except your own preconceived notions
As far as the Maggie vs Quad issure some people want more foundation than the quad or LS3/5a can offer, Everyone has different needs and what satisfies one doesnt others and thats why there are some many designs and brands out there.I am not question your choice of reality but you jump to facts before having explored them. Your educated man, this comes from the same structure as any investagation

Ok calm down.
I was just joking about this suggestion. But you are right. JJ should try a SS amp, and the D'Ag is surely one of the best ever made.
Probably perfect choice with the DeVore O96 too by the way.


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XV-1
August 23, 2014, 01:37 PM
Shane...

That was just a joke. The D'Ags received enough praise everywhere. It speaks for itself.
Anyway I am not trying / experimenting anything else. I am very happy "as is".


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That is kool Jerome

Always good to keep up the friendly banter.

BTW, what is your main cartridge you are using with your wonderful turntable these days?

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 01:39 PM
That is kool Jerome

Always good to keep up the friendly banter.

BTW, what is your main cartridge you are using with your wonderful turntable these days?

Lyra Delos and A23 Hommage T2 SUT or Ortofon SPU Classic GE MKII direct in the MC of my preamp.


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mep
August 23, 2014, 01:40 PM
All the Krell amps that I listened too made my ears bleeding so I did not dare to listen to the d'Ag....:lmao:


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The Krell KSA-250 is anything but an amp that makes your ears bleed. If anything, it's a touch on the soft side. I owned one for a couple of years and it served me well.

XV-1
August 23, 2014, 02:03 PM
Lyra Delos and A23 Hommage T2 SUT or Ortofon SPU Classic GE MKII direct in the MC of my preamp.


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Beautiful. I think you would love the Etna

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 02:21 PM
Beautiful. I think you would love the Etna

Shane, too expensive for me ! :D


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Cucumber_jones
August 23, 2014, 02:21 PM
Any word from JH yet? I dream about these amps. Could very well be a bad bunch of tubes.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 02:22 PM
Any word from JH yet? I dream about these amps. Could very well be a bad bunch of tubes.

Bad tubes or a AC problem ?


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NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 02:31 PM
Just to let you all know the extent and background of my issues with the D'Yquem's. This is my second pair of these amps.

The first pair blew a tube the second time I turned them on. The amp was sent back to my dealer, checked out and tubes were replaced and re-biased.

The amp was sent back to me and about a week later it blew out another tube.

My dealer is absolutely amazing and they agreed to order me a new pair and take the original pair back.

After installing the new pair I got about a dozen uses out of the amp's before the tubes blew. Again, replaced the tubes and fuse, re-biased the amp.

Now about another dozen uses later the other amp has blown a fuse and possibly the tubes as well.

I realize tubes are sensitive and prone to failure but this is really unusual to have this many problems with amps that really don't get used all that often.

I have owned tube amps of other brands and never experienced this many tube failures. I know of many Shindo owners of other models that have never had a tube failure in years of heavy use.

I am certainly not a technical expert but maybe one of the more dependable Shindo amps with different tubes will be my solution.

Very frustrating to wonder every time you turn on your gear if it will work.

NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 02:35 PM
I forgot to mention I even had an electrician come to the house to check my power. The wiring is less than ten years old and tested properly so no power issues.

dlb2
August 23, 2014, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the added info JJ. I was wondering if it was an electrical issue in the house. If it were me I would seriously consider a different amp in the line.

Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 02:45 PM
I would be very curious to know how many pairs are in used worldwide.
What are the numbers of yours ?


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NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the added info JJ. I was wondering if it was an electrical issue in the house. If it were me I would seriously consider a different amp in the line.

As a matter of fact I just had that discussion with my dealer. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy, even taking these back and getting me a different model.

We talked about possibly the GM 70's. I have not heard them but all owners of them have nothing but good things to say. Seem to be very reliable as well.

KenSea
August 23, 2014, 02:54 PM
As a matter of fact I just had that discussion with my dealer. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy, even taking these back and getting me a different model.

We talked about possibly the GM 70's. I have not heard them but all owners of them have nothing but good things to say. Seem to be very reliable as well.

Oh my, i would die for the GM70'S OR THE 300b limited..............mmmmmm. mmmmmmmmmm

NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 03:23 PM
I would be very curious to know how many pairs are in used worldwide.
What are the numbers of yours ?


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My first pair were serial numbers 13 and 14. My new pair are 19 and 20 so as of a few moths ago ten pairs worldwide and I have owned two of them. I heard a couple more pairs have been sold since so maybe twelve pairs have been produced so far.

They were introduced in the lineup about two years ago and I believe are the first parallel SET for Shindo. Not positive about that. Maybe upon powering up an unequal signal is sent thus blowing out a tube. Who knows? Not me for sure.

Mike
August 23, 2014, 03:38 PM
Does anyone have a link to independently tested impedance curve of the O/96's?


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Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 04:07 PM
Here you go Boss :
http://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-orangutan-o96-loudspeaker-measurements


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Jerome W
August 23, 2014, 04:10 PM
Ok so that makes about 10 other owners. If there was a design flaw we would know it I guess.
My guess : very very bad luck with tubes.
I understand why you are so fed up.
A pair of GM70 may be the way to go.


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Mike
August 23, 2014, 04:16 PM
Thanks Jerome.

When I compare the impedance curves of the Tannoy's (96db by the way) to the Devore (91db), its a bit of a head scratcher to me. The Devore has some wild swings above 8ohms and quite a bit is less efficient.

Tannoy:
7291

Devore:
7292

I'm wondering if the OP's Devore's might truly not be the best match for the D'Yquem's? Maybe?


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NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 04:26 PM
Ok so that makes about 10 other owners. If there was a design flaw we would know it I guess.
My guess : very very bad luck with tubes.
I understand why you are so fed up.
A pair of GM70 may be the way to go.


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Not necessarily would we know. I doubt they would publicize that kind of information. I would be curious to know if any other D'Yquem owners have had any tube issues.

mep
August 23, 2014, 06:03 PM
You have to be leery about a Japanese man giving all of his products French names. :lol:

NOLG4EVR
August 23, 2014, 06:46 PM
You have to be leery about a Japanese man giving all of his products French names. :lol:


He was a wine connoisseur. A man after my own heart.

mep
August 23, 2014, 07:49 PM
He was a wine connoisseur. A man after my own heart.

When somebody can make wine taste like beer, I'm all in.

Garth
August 23, 2014, 08:08 PM
My issues with Shindo D'Yquem amps continue. Tonight I attempted to turn my amp on and within 30-40 seconds it just died. No power at all. I have had many tube failures over the course of my ownership of these great sounding amp's but now am pretty much fed up.

It seems about every dozen or so times I go to power these up something bad happens. So far bad tubes have been the supposed cause of the amp failures. This time it appears to be the fuse as the tubes seemed ok upon power up.

After a record amount of Gold Lion 300b tube failures and now what appears to be a fuse issue I would have to think maybe this amp design is flawed. I have not heard of many tube issues with other Shindo amps so the D'Yquem may be unique in it's unreliability.

As much as I love the Shindo sound the frustration and anger with these amp's have created a situation where the tolerance of not knowing if your gear will work now far outweighs the sound quality.

Change is in my future.

I had a lot of problems over the years the whole nine yards of break downs . I found a solution solid state. If you buy good solid state it sounds great and switching it on never feels like Russian Roulette with your wallet always the loser. Tubes sound great when they work. Some people have little to no problems then their is you and me.

mep
August 23, 2014, 08:44 PM
I had a lot of problems over the years the whole nine yards of break downs . I found a solution solid state. If you buy good solid state it sounds great and switching it on never feels like Russian Roulette with your wallet always the loser. Tubes sound great when they work. Some people have little to no problems then their is you and me.

I have been a dyed in the wool tube lover my entire life. I went through a bad spell with my tube gear being a gigantic pain in my ass and I got mad and sold it and went SS for awhile. I had a Krell KRC-HR preamp (kick-ass by the way) and Krell KSA-250 amp. I lived with it happily for a couple of years and it was truly a joy to know that I could always expect my gear to work. And then I reviewed a pair of Raven monoblock tube amps and a Raven preamp and I remembered why I loved tubes so much in the first place. I sold all of my Krell gear (except for my KPE Ref phono stage with outboard power supply-PM if you want to buy it) and bought an ARC Ref 5SE and ARC Ref 75 and I couldn't be happier with my decision. These are the two ARC pieces I heard in Carl's room at RMAF 2012 with his Nola speakers that I fell in love with. I bought the Nola KOs last March and I think I will see them before RMAF 2014.

The great thing about the Ref 75 is that it only uses a pair of KT-120 tubes per channel. It's so much easier to maintain a tube amp that uses a single pair of tubes per channel. Buying a pair of output tubes that are tightly matched is way easier than buying a quartet or octet of output tubes that will come close to the match you can get with a single pair. And none of that would matter if the Ref 75 didn't sound great, but it does. From what I have heard, the Ref 75 sounds even better if you use KT-150s. Based on my experience with the Raven amps, I don't doubt it.

puroagave
August 24, 2014, 01:32 AM
I had a lot of problems over the years the whole nine yards of break downs . I found a solution solid state. If you buy good solid state it sounds great and switching it on never feels like Russian Roulette with your wallet always the loser. Tubes sound great when they work. Some people have little to no problems then their is you and me.

thats why i keep an NAD integrated in the closet. it has pre-out/main-in so i can trouble shoot my tube gear or in pinch have something to listen to during repairs. iv'e learned how to repair most things that go wrong (burnt cathode resistors, for one). sometimes it feels like roulette but its worth it.

Jerome W
August 24, 2014, 02:35 AM
I understand easily people who do not want to mess with tubes.
There are many SS amps that sound great.
And all tube amps have reliability issues based mostly on the tubes themselves, no matter the size of the company. Mc, ARC, CJ, Manley, Jadis, Shindo... All have their share of frustrated customers.
But still, many companies continue to produce tube amps and preamps, and many customers continue to buy them.
Is this only because of Marketing ?
No.
For a minority of music lovers, there is just no other solution than a correctly designed tube amp to get to the ultimate bliss in sound reproduction. They are ready to accept to have dying pieces in their gear just for the sake of sound quality.
Exactly like we are ready to accept all the efforts to play a vinyl instead of a digital file because vinyl just sounds better.
I have 3 systems at home.
They all use tube amps.
The only exception to this rule is when I am working at my office near the main system. I put the SS amp on ( 2205) and also for HT.
I have had many other SS amps at home and to my ears, even the best ones do not compete with great tube amps. My ears are just made for the tube sound. I am not saying that tube amps are better than SS amp. That is just a personal preference.
We have lost the sense of Efforts in our fast societies.
We are not willing to wait : at the restaurant, the airport...
We always want More and we want it Now.
I love the sense if efforts and the time needed to enjoy tube based hifi and vinyl.
They give us again the sense of efforts and introduce a ceremony part in our action.



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Garth
August 24, 2014, 10:06 AM
I have been a dyed in the wool tube lover my entire life. I went through a bad spell with my tube gear being a gigantic pain in my ass and I got mad and sold it and went SS for awhile. I had a Krell KRC-HR preamp (kick-ass by the way) and Krell KSA-250 amp. I lived with it happily for a couple of years and it was truly a joy to know that I could always expect my gear to work. And then I reviewed a pair of Raven monoblock tube amps and a Raven preamp and I remembered why I loved tubes so much in the first place. I sold all of my Krell gear (except for my KPE Ref phono stage with outboard power supply-PM if you want to buy it) and bought an ARC Ref 5SE and ARC Ref 75 and I couldn't be happier with my decision. These are the two ARC pieces I heard in Carl's room at RMAF 2012 with his Nola speakers that I fell in love with. I bought the Nola KOs last March and I think I will see them before RMAF 2014.

The great thing about the Ref 75 is that it only uses a pair of KT-120 tubes per channel. It's so much easier to maintain a tube amp that uses a single pair of tubes per channel. Buying a pair of output tubes that are tightly matched is way easier than buying a quartet or octet of output tubes that will come close to the match you can get with a single pair. And none of that would matter if the Ref 75 didn't sound great, but it does. From what I have heard, the Ref 75 sounds even better if you use KT-150s. Based on my experience with the Raven amps, I don't doubt it.


You make many good points and you are right tubes can sound great.

I also was in Carl's room and it was great sounding I thought one of or the best at the show. Carl had like a 100,000 dollars worth of wire in that room more than most of us will ever have so that was part of the sound.

A few years ago I switched from CJ to Ayre and a Burmester phono I do not miss tubes maybe that will change but I do not think so.

I do disagree with one post that SS guys just can not wait for repairs and are well lazy . Well maybe a little lazy but the never knowing if the gear will work when I turn it on just bothered me I leave the ayre on 24/7.

I in no way look down on tube gear but the heat and odd things that they can do when not sounding right take another level of your time I do not want to be my own tech.

I like some ss amps others I would not own and if all is done fairly I think two side by side ss and tube the tube would pull ahead but not by much peace

Petro85
August 24, 2014, 10:49 AM
I understand easily people who do not want to mess with tubes.
There are many SS amps that sound great.
And all tube amps have reliability issues based mostly on the tubes themselves, no matter the size of the company. Mc, ARC, CJ, Manley, Jadis, Shindo... All have their share of frustrated customers.
But still, many companies continue to produce tube amps and preamps, and many customers continue to buy them.
Is this only because of Marketing ?
No.
For a minority of music lovers, there is just no other solution than a correctly designed tube amp to get to the ultimate bliss in sound reproduction. They are ready to accept to have dying pieces in their gear just for the sake of sound quality.
Exactly like we are ready to accept all the efforts to play a vinyl instead of a digital file because vinyl just sounds better.
I have 3 systems at home.
They all use tube amps.
The only exception to this rule is when I am working at my office near the main system. I put the SS amp on ( 2205) and also for HT.
I have had many other SS amps at home and to my ears, even the best ones do not compete with great tube amps. My ears are just made for the tube sound. I am not saying that tube amps are better than SS amp. That is just a personal preference.
We have lost the sense of Efforts in our fast societies.
We are not willing to wait : at the restaurant, the airport...
We always want More and we want it Now.
I love the sense if efforts and the time needed to enjoy tube based hifi and vinyl.
They give us again the sense of efforts and introduce a ceremony part in our action.



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i agree Jerome!! some guys like tubes , some guys like solid state. i like tubes and the only ss amp i ever really liked and could live with cost more than my whole system. just my opinion and it is definitely a biased(pun intended) opinion as ive home demoed a few ss amps but ive never owned one. ive been looking for a moderately priced ss amp to play with in my house. but havent found one that i would actually use.
i recently heard a very popular and talk about and very expensive ss amp , and i just couldnt believe i preferred the $2500 used tube amps i heard right next to it better.lol. its just gotta be my ears, cause i cant believe anyone buys these things. lol.
tubes rule!!!
to JJ the op, sorry this thread got off topic, please let us know how you sorted out your troubles.
tubes rule!!!

Kt77
August 24, 2014, 11:48 AM
Tubes Rule Indeed!.

But then as a backup, Solid State has its merits in a logical sense.

Jerome W
August 24, 2014, 01:27 PM
Tubes Rule Indeed!.

But then as a backup, Solid State has its merits in a logical sense.

My backup amps and preamps are also tubed !


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Jerome W
August 24, 2014, 01:31 PM
JJ, since you love so much the D'Yquem sound,
Imho you should do this.
Return them to your dealer for a full check up. Have the dealer change the GL300B's for JJ ones and adjust the bias. Then get them back and see how it goes. If same problem happens again then go to GM70.
Please remember : Ken Shindo was first a super specialist of 300B amps.
D'Yquem is one of the greatest wine in the world.
You may be seated on a pure jewel.
Please give them an other chance. ;)


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Garth
August 24, 2014, 01:32 PM
If you can not remember having problems with your tube gear I am sorry to tell you, you have Alzheimers

Kt77
August 24, 2014, 03:19 PM
My backup amps and preamps are also tubed !


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Well Jerome,

It proves you've had better luck then some of us, and that's a good thing, no!.

KenSea
August 24, 2014, 03:31 PM
I for one had had very good luck with tube gear through the many years, I have also had some bad trans stuff too.


If you can not remember having problems with your tube gear I am sorry to tell you, you have Alzheimers

Jerome W
August 24, 2014, 04:11 PM
If you can not remember having problems with your tube gear I am sorry to tell you, you have Alzheimers

Excellent One ! :lmao:


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kev313
August 24, 2014, 04:20 PM
I've had tons of problems with tubes. Pieces from Wright sound, welborne, audio research, Jolida, Cary, air tight, sophia, and Allnic have had to go back for repair. My Allnic integrated was my most problematic. Blown tubes, blown caps, knobs that fell off due to general low build quality. As far as I can remember, I have not had to send in Shindo for repair. My Sinhonias a while back needed some freshening up when I sold them.

Best of luck with the D'YQ. Those are gorgeous and worth your effort. My GM 70 have been cruising without a hiccup for 2 years, but I'd love to hear those parallel 300b.


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Garth
August 24, 2014, 05:53 PM
Excellent One ! :lmao:


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it is always fun to wind the tube guys up a bit. And yes it can sound great when it is not burning the house down. Best song on tube gear Heat Wave.

kev313
August 24, 2014, 05:54 PM
Beats "Mr. Sandman"


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Mike
August 24, 2014, 07:02 PM
I've had tons of problems with tubes. Pieces from Wright sound, welborne, audio research, Jolida, Cary, air tight, sophia, and Allnic have had to go back for repair. My Allnic integrated was my most problematic. Blown tubes, blown caps, knobs that fell off due to general low build quality. As far as I can remember, I have not had to send in Shindo for repair. My Sinhonias a while back needed some freshening up when I sold them.

Best of luck with the D'YQ. Those are gorgeous and worth your effort. My GM 70 have been cruising without a hiccup for 2 years, but I'd love to hear those parallel 300b.


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What Allnic integrated was that?


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kev313
August 24, 2014, 07:34 PM
T1500. The 300b integrated. I basically got fed up with it after the third or fourth problem and sold as is / for parts for less than $1,000 to a local audio scavenger. Felt good to get rid of it.

Lest anyone think this report is anything less than my actual feelings after actual ownership, here is a picture of my youngest as a wee sprout rocking to the Allnic on my Musical Affairs speakers. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/25/y2u8u4ah.jpg


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Mike
August 24, 2014, 07:53 PM
When it did work. Did you like it? Gorgeous view by the way. Where do you live?


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NOLG4EVR
August 24, 2014, 08:07 PM
Just a quick update on the D'Yquem status.

Last night a friend whom I met on the other site came over to help me troubleshoot the amp problem.

He brought his tube tester, some spare tubes and fuses.

First we tested the GL300b's. Both tested like new, no problems. This did not surprise me as the issue originally was not like my previous issues where I actually saw the 300b glow bright red before it failed. This issue was after 30-40 seconds the amp just completely shut down, no power at all.

Although we highly doubted there was an issue with the 6AW8A tubes we tested them anyway. Both tested good.

We then opened the amp to check the fuse. The fuse looked fine and it also tested good.

Inside the D'Yquem there are two 6AL3 tubes soldered to some internal wiring. We decided to test these as well. It was a little tricky to remove them from their sockets and insert them in the tube tester without damaging the solder points as the wires are quite short. First tube tested good and the second one was completely dead.

Is this the problem solved? Don't know yet until tomorrow night when we will replace the bad GE 6AL3 tube and re-solder it back to the wiring.

Keeping my fingers crossed this will cure the problem and hoping it was just a bad GE tube and not something more serious that caused the tube to fail.

This is as far as I am willing to go on my own, anything more complicated and the amp will get shipped away for repair.

kev313
August 24, 2014, 08:09 PM
Just a quick update on the D'Yquem status.

Last night a friend whom I met on the other site came over to help me troubleshoot the amp problem.

He brought his tube tester, some spare tubes and fuses.

First we tested the GL300b's. Both tested like new, no problems. This did not surprise me as the issue originally was not like my previous issues where I actually saw the 300b glow bright red before it failed. This issue was after 30-40 seconds the amp just completely shut down, no power at all.

Although we highly doubted there was an issue with the 6AW8A tubes we tested them anyway. Both tested good.

We then opened the amp to check the fuse. The fuse looked fine and it also tested good.

Inside the D'Yquem there are two 6AL3 tubes soldered to some internal wiring. We decided to test these as well. It was a little tricky to remove them from their sockets and insert them in the tube tester without damaging the solder points as the wires are quite short. First tube tested good and the second one was completely dead.

Is this the problem solved? Don't know yet until tomorrow night when we will replace the bad GE 6AL3 tube and re-solder it back to the wiring.

Keeping my fingers crossed this will cure the problem and hoping it was just a bad GE tube and not something more serious that caused the tube to fail.

This is as far as I am willing to go on my own, anything more complicated and the amp will get shipped away for repair.

Good luck and good work! I hope that fixes your issues.


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NOLG4EVR
August 24, 2014, 08:12 PM
Good luck and good work! I hope that fixes your issues.


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Thanks Kev.

kev313
August 24, 2014, 08:13 PM
When it did work. Did you like it? Gorgeous view by the way. Where do you live?


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It was ok. Not quite as refined as other 300b I've had, but not too shabby. A bit higher powered, a tad less magic. Not totally unlike my wright 2a3, but my memory is unreliable with such comparisons, I suppose.

Given the lack of growth, that looks to be a winter view or late fall through my front window. I live on the north side of Chicago.


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Mike
August 24, 2014, 08:41 PM
It was ok. Not quite as refined as other 300b I've had, but not too shabby. A bit higher powered, a tad less magic. Not totally unlike my wright 2a3, but my memory is unreliable with such comparisons, I suppose.

Given the lack of growth, that looks to be a winter view or late fall through my front window. I live on the north side of Chicago.


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Thanks.


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Garth
August 24, 2014, 09:31 PM
Just a quick update on the D'Yquem status.

Last night a friend whom I met on the other site came over to help me troubleshoot the amp problem.

He brought his tube tester, some spare tubes and fuses.

First we tested the GL300b's. Both tested like new, no problems. This did not surprise me as the issue originally was not like my previous issues where I actually saw the 300b glow bright red before it failed. This issue was after 30-40 seconds the amp just completely shut down, no power at all.

Although we highly doubted there was an issue with the 6AW8A tubes we tested them anyway. Both tested good.

We then opened the amp to check the fuse. The fuse looked fine and it also tested good.

Inside the D'Yquem there are two 6AL3 tubes soldered to some internal wiring. We decided to test these as well. It was a little tricky to remove them from their sockets and insert them in the tube tester without damaging the solder points as the wires are quite short. First tube tested good and the second one was completely dead.

Is this the problem solved? Don't know yet until tomorrow night when we will replace the bad GE 6AL3 tube and re-solder it back to the wiring.

Keeping my fingers crossed this will cure the problem and hoping it was just a bad GE tube and not something more serious that caused the tube to fail.

This is as far as I am willing to go on my own, anything more complicated and the amp will get shipped away for repair.

Most of us have had repair problems of one kind or another and it is a pain I hope the tube is the problem. I reread my posts I am not making light of your problem and I do hope you have it solved.

Good luck

KeithR
August 24, 2014, 09:45 PM
If I had this issue, they would have just gone back. Period.

KeithR
August 24, 2014, 09:46 PM
Any amp that was this unreliable I would have dumped faster than a used prophylactic. This is supposed to be about a hobby that is fun and relaxing and not one where you sweat bullets every time you power your amp on. You have either had an incredible run of bad tubes or it's simply a defective design or a defective unit. You have already come to that conclusion and I agree with you.

You mean like your Krell where you wrote several threads on having the buzzing transformer fixed? You complained about that amp for 2 years dude.

puroagave
August 24, 2014, 10:29 PM
You mean like your Krell where you wrote several threads on having the buzzing transformer fixed? You complained about that amp for 2 years dude.

2 years? it felt like five! give the man his due:lol: in all seriousness i owned a pair of those beasts the xfrm alone was like 90 lbs, the amp was 140 lbs dry. mine buzzed a little and i had two strapped in mono (MDA-500). if his was worse than i remember mine were, it would annoy the hell out of anyone.

NOLG4EVR
August 24, 2014, 10:38 PM
If I had this issue, they would have just gone back. Period.

As upset as I have been about this truth is tubes do fail. I felt that because the sound quality is absolutely superb when they are working it was worth a couple of hours of troubleshooting before I gave up on them. I will see tomorrow if my repair attempt is successful. I also collect vintage cars, they can also be a pain. But when running perfect they are sweet.

Jerome W
August 25, 2014, 01:19 AM
JJ : Great News !
I 'm happy your friend was able to help. Those tubes cannot be changed by someone not qualified.



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Cucumber_jones
August 26, 2014, 11:21 PM
So were are you at with this? Are they working now? Was it a failed tube after all?

NOLG4EVR
August 26, 2014, 11:26 PM
Got back to repairing the D'Yquem last night. Replaced the 6AL3 tube and re-soldered it back to the internal wire.

We then re-biased the 300b tubes and buttoned up the bottom of the amp.

The fuse in the power cord socket had blown so we replaced that as well.

Powered up the amp and seems to be fine.

Many thanks to my friend Rene. Without his help and tools I would not be listening to these wonderful sounding amps as I type.

It required several hours of work and days of frustration but back in business again. For now.

kev313
August 26, 2014, 11:37 PM
Rene! One of the good guys, for sure. Good stuff.


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NOLG4EVR
August 27, 2014, 12:12 AM
Rene! One of the good guys, for sure. Good stuff.


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Absolutely. This experience inspired me to go out today and buy a Fluke multimeter and order spare tubes to have a backup kit. Bought a bunch of fuses as well.

Also going to look around for a good restored tube tester.

Tubes do fail and in future I want to be prepared so down time is minimal.

That said, when tube amps work they are magical, especially Shindo.

Definitely back in business tonight.

Jerome W
August 27, 2014, 12:57 AM
Rene! One of the good guys, for sure. Good stuff.


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+1 !

All tube amps owners would need a René next to their home ! Awesome !




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Cucumber_jones
August 27, 2014, 12:58 AM
Well it looks like it is just a faulty tube. Ken built some damn nice amps when he created the D'yquem and I hope to some day own a pair. I have had many glasses of D'yquem form the 60's and I bet the amps are as tasty as the wine.


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NOLG4EVR
August 27, 2014, 01:24 AM
Well it looks like it is just a faulty tube. Ken built some damn nice amps when he created the D'yquem and I hope to some day own a pair. I have had many glasses of D'yquem form the 60's and I bet the amps are as tasty as the wine.


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The wine is among the best white wines produced. As are the D'Yquem amp's.

Yes, maintenance is required. But like all good things it is worth the effort.

After re-biasing they are better than ever!

Paul
August 27, 2014, 12:11 PM
JJ , so glad to hear that.

mep
August 27, 2014, 03:52 PM
You mean like your Krell where you wrote several threads on having the buzzing transformer fixed? You complained about that amp for 2 years dude.

First of all, I want to say to the OP that I'm glad his problem has been corrected and he's happy again. To Keith, I want to say that you are more than slightly exaggerating what really happened vis-à-vis my Krell KSA-250. I bought the KSA-250 in 2011 and it was built in the 1980s. The amp was sold to me as working and was DOA upon arrival. I sent the amp back to Krell to be repaired and recapped. And as Rob said, packing and shipping an amp that weighs 140 lbs before it's in the crate is no joy. When your listening room is downstairs and you have to carry the amp up a flight of stairs, load it into your car, drive it to Indy and drop it off at a freight hauler (4 hour round trip) and then drive back to Indy to get the amp and reverse the original process to get it back into your room only to discover the amp still has issue is a real pisser. The amp came back to me 'working,' but it had a hum issue. Krell paid to have a truck come to my house and pick the amp up and Krell paid for the shipping both ways which included a truck delivering the amp to my house.

I kept the KSA-250 until 2014 when I sold it because I bought the ARC Ref 75. I had literally years of listening to my KSA-250 and after the last time it came back to me, I never gave it a thought when I hit the power switch and turned it on. I still think it's a fantastic sounding amp and it would still put many an amp to shame.

Back to the Shindo amps under discussion: I'm surprised that these amps have a pair of tubes 'under the hood' and that those tubes are hardwired and soldered instead of being in sockets if I read the problem correctly. Shindo must have planned on those tubes lasting forever because they created an issue by doing it that way.

Jerome W
September 4, 2014, 01:56 AM
Funny...
This morning one of my CCQs started to make some pop noises.
Power tubes and input ones test strong. Only option is one of those damn 6AL3 !
I'm not competent to replace those so the amp will go to my tech. And I will have the other ones checked too.
Wish I could have a René nearby ! :D




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AVjim
September 4, 2014, 02:53 AM
You mean like your Krell where you wrote several threads on having the buzzing transformer fixed? You complained about that amp for 2 years dude.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with issues , but if my shindo caught on fire and burnt the house down ... It would still he sitting in my new house ..some stuff is just worth the hassle ;)

Jerome W
September 4, 2014, 03:00 AM
Luckily I haven't had to deal with issues , but if my shindo caught on fire and burnt the house down ... It would still he sitting in my new house ..some stuff is just worth the hassle ;)

I love my Shindo amps but not at this level !


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