Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference

[joeinid]

Credit to Wizard ....

http://cybwiz.blogspot.com/2013/12/berkeley-audio-design-alpha-dac.html

I think this will be a killer....

Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MgH3ZlHZzQA/Upuj_NaUCJI/AAAAAAAAPKo/1997tmxNQzo/s400/Alpha-DAC-Reference-Series-angle.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MgH3ZlHZzQA/Upuj_NaUCJI/AAAAAAAAPKo/1997tmxNQzo/s1600/Alpha-DAC-Reference-Series-angle.jpg)

$14000

Berkeley Audio Design is extremely pleased to announce the availability of the new Alpha DAC Reference Series.

The Alpha DAC Reference Series embodies everything we know about digital to analogue conversion taken to an unprecedented level – a level that requires new design concepts & new components at the edge of what is possible. The result is an immediacy and presence of music reproduction that is simply real.

[the professor]

As good as their other stuf is this will be killer.

Interesting how they are handling DSD

[wisnon]

Its not "native" DSD at all. Just offline DSD to PCM conversion in the computer I prefer the Lampi solution of try-level analog filtration. Not saying that the BA wont sound great, but its really a more optimized way of doing conversion to PCM.

[wisnon]

This is what I hear the crew from BA made back in the day when they were truly leading edge (true 24bit PCM ADC and DAC):

Yeah $23K!!! Pacific Microsonics Model 2 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacific-Microsonics-Model-2-/171135231339?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item27d874656b)https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCGrkOKJDQ8bj7E&w=154&h=154&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Ft%2FPacific-Microsonics-Model-2-%2F00%2Fs%2FMjg2WDQ0MA%3D%3D%2Fz%2FbMcAAOxyf%7EhRy uSu%2F%24%28KGrHqVHJFQFGuTOt0P6BRyuSuLIzg%7E%7E60_ 35.JPG (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacific-Microsonics-Model-2-/171135231339?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item27d874656b)
Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacific-Microsonics-Model-2-/171135231339?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item27d874656b)
www.ebay.com


and


Goodwin's High End - Pacific Microsonics Model Two (http://www.goodwinshighend.com/manufacturers/pacific_microsonics/pacific_microsonics_model_two.htm)

[veindoc]

Looks exciting. Sorry it won't b more expensive. Surprised not even a separate power supply at this price point
Nick

[wisnon]

Why should this be any better than the new Chord Hugo which is a Qute EX on battery power?

[Audioseduction]

Bel Canto is also in the same boat as BA with regards to DSD playback. With my Bel Canto DAC3.5VB mkII I do the same thing (Transcoding) DSD with JRMC v19 and it sounds AWSOME!

[asindc]

The computeraudiophile review:

Computer Audiophile - Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series Review (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/599-berkeley-audio-design-alpha-dac-reference-series-review/#comments)

Incidentally, the MSRP is $16,000.

[Mike]

Oh goody! Another flavor of the month DAC! :)

In all seriousness, I would love to review this unit against my S1. But with Chris describing the DAC2X as "fat sounding" compared to the new Berkeley DAC in the comments section....all I can say is YIKES. But listening is believing.

[asindc]

Oh goody! Another flavor of the month DAC! :)

In all seriousness, I would love to review this unit against my S1. But with Chris describing the DAC2X as "fat sounding" compared to the new Berkeley DAC in the comments section....all I can say is YIKES. But listening is believing.

Yeah, that caught my attention as well. I've not known him to be this effusive in previous reviews, so this certainly has my curiosity piqued.

[Mike]

Maybe he found something to finally tame those TAD's!

[CPP]

Maybe he found something to finally tame those TAD's!

Chris did use a lot superlatives!!! in his review "" ,truly a game changer", " so good it renders much of the competition irrelevant", "absolute magic can be heard with standard CD quality 16 bit / 44.1 kHz material" , "I know of no DAC available today that can reproduce Redbook CD content as well as the Alpha DAC RS. Period ""

But is it $10k better than a $5k dac at playing redbook and since this dac in the review doesn't play dsd , who knows... Mike you need to get one and test it.

[mauidan]

Maybe he found something to finally tame those TAD's!

He just switched over to Devialet 400 monos(in for review), and can use Devialet's SAM file for his TADs.

[cmalak]

From what I understand, the guys at Berkley are the real deal when it comes to digital repro. When it comes to price of the Ref DAC and is it worth it, that's a different story but in terms of the digital audio engineering chops, these guys are legit.

[asindc]

From what I understand, the guys at Berkley are the real deal when it comes to digital repro. When it comes to price of the Ref DAC and is it worth it, that's a different story but in terms of the digital audio engineering chops, these guys are legit.

I know that the Berkeley USB converter elevated my digital playback in a dramatic way. If this latest Berkeley DAC is anything like that, I might have to take a closer look.

[annapolis Raider]

Looks like Hartley has weighed in too with a very positive review. I've got access to one on the way. Will report back after I get it.

[BlueFox]

Chris did use a lot superlatives!!! in his review "" ,truly a game changer", " so good it renders much of the competition irrelevant", "absolute magic can be heard with standard CD quality 16 bit / 44.1 kHz material" , "I know of no DAC available today that can reproduce Redbook CD content as well as the Alpha DAC RS. Period ""

But is it $10k better than a $5k dac at playing redbook and since this dac in the review doesn't play dsd , who knows... Mike you need to get one and test it.

What I want to know is if it is 5 times better than the his $3500 Auralic Vega. Since I use the Vega, my guess is no. :)

[dlb2]

At least this one looks good. But 16k for a DAC when another one in a few months will better it. That's hard to swallow.

Sent from my HTC One.

[sharkmouth]

At least this one looks good. But 16k for a DAC when another one in a few months will better it. That's hard to swallow.

Sent from my HTC One.
... bit like ttables Doug?

[Joe P]

What I want to know is if it is 5 times better than the his $3500 Auralic Vega. Since I use the Vega, my guess is no. :)

It's only 4.57 times better than your Vega.:cool:

[BlueFox]

It's only 4.57 times better than your Vega.:cool:

Okay. I was scared it was going to be 10 times better. :)

[veindoc]

I spoke to Chris at CAS. He said Deviate eval is going on but he would never incorporate it due to the need to eliminate other great pieces of equipment ( like his dacs and new Pass gear)
He did finally leave Spectral but still loves his CR-1

Nick

[dlb2]

... bit like ttables Doug?
Oh you know it!

Sent from my HTC One.

[Ritmo]

This is indeed an interesting DAC. Hope to see it and listen to it at RMAF.

BUT, no DSD, no USB, no CoAx SE.

[mauidan]

This is indeed an interesting DAC. Hope to see it and listen to it at RMAF.

BUT, no DSD, no USB, no CoAx SE.
It's got two SPDIF BNC inputs.

[JDLaudio]

I am in line to receive a unit, but it will be @ 60 days before mine arrives. They are very tough to get right now. But I will surely report back to the AS community once I have one "in system".

[Mike]

This is indeed an interesting DAC. Hope to see it and listen to it at RMAF.

BUT, no DSD, no USB, no CoAx SE.

You're right Mike. Looks like no native DSD capabilities. Hmmm...

[BlueFox]

Berkeley finally put some info on their web-site about it. Since around last November, it has said, "Coming soon".

The DSD part is a cop out. You need to use Jriver on a PC or Mac to play your files. That leaves out dedicated music servers, such as the Bryston BDP2.

[mauidan]

You're right Mike. Looks like no native DSD capabilities. Hmmm...

Since this DAC was announced last year, Berkeley said it wouldn't do DSD(see the first post in this thread).

Why is it a surprise now?

As JDaudio points out the units are back ordered, so I guess there are lots of people who buy into Berkeley's point of view on DSD.

Mike, tell the truth, what percentage of the files on your S1 are DSD?

[Mike]

Since this DAC was announced last year, Berkeley said it wouldn't do DSD(see the first post in this thread).

Why is it a surprise now?

As JDaudio points out the units are back ordered, so I guess there are lots of people who buy into Berkeley's point of view on DSD.

Mike, tell the truth, what percentage of the files on your S1 are DSD?

Since buying a Lumin, I've stopped reading about DAC's....they are inferior in every way to a network streamer IMO. I've owned 20 DAC's like the DAC2X, MA-1 and demoed many more. It just seems that every month there is a new DAC, then, people try it and become disappointed. Why? Because there is no constant!! Everyone has different USB cables, different computers, different software, different everything. All of these front end items negatively affect the sound. Computers do no belong in high end audio systems. Period. Yes, and I've even owned modified MAC's, CAPS 3.0, etc. Companies like Lumin, Linn, Bryston, etc. are on the right track IMO.

NOW, the exception to this for me would be to use the Lumin as the player/controller and run BNC out into a separate TUBE DAC to experiment. But buying a DAC, USB cable, windows or Mac computer, JRiver, no thanks.

As for DSD files, I'm the wrong guy to be asking that question in hopes of a low number. The number is north of 10,000 (from more than 1000 SACD's plus downloads). I've been promoting DSD for years.

As I said, I would love to hear the Berkely DAC and it's accompanying USB gizmo combo in my system and be convinced. And if Jerry is getting one (he is the undeniable king of DACS), then I may get a chance since he is local to me. And if it beats the Lumin S1, I will be happy to say so. I'm not married to anything except my wife.

[wisnon]

Since buying a Lumin, I've stopped reading about DAC's....they are inferior in every way to a network streamer IMO. I've owned 20 DAC's like the DAC2X, MA-1 and demoed many more. It just seems that every month there is a new DAC, then, people try it and become disappointed. Why? Because there is no constant!! Everyone has different USB cables, different computers, different software, different everything. All of these front end items negatively affect the sound. Computers do no belong in high end audio systems. Period. Yes, and I've even owned modified MAC's, CAPS 3.0, etc. Companies like Lumin, Linn, Bryston, etc. are on the right track IMO.

NOW, the exception to this for me would be to use the Lumin as the player/controller and run BNC out into a separate TUBE DAC to experiment. But buying a DAC, USB cable, windows or Mac computer, JRiver, no thanks.

As for DSD files, I'm the wrong guy to be asking that question in hopes of a low number. The number is north of 10,000 (from more than 1000 SACD's plus downloads). I've been promoting DSD for years.
.

My DSD brother, permit me to disagree on just one point.

I am hearing that a modded PC (or Caps) running Windows 2012 Server R2 with Audiophile Optimiser with Jriver/Jplay playback in CORE mode is da bomb and will take on all comers. Asio USB connection of course. Such a setup will be in NYC for the show...my pal is loaning his setup (running into a Big7). Stay tuned for feedback... The Mac guys are saying that if one gets HQ Player and a Dac that can run the Decibel promoted Asio Driver for Mac, you are also getting outrageous DSD performance.

As a computer guy you know that the background processes are a killer for SQ and that consumer/business OpSys are running like a 1,000 "useless for audio" things in the background. Well the server version of Windows is more no frills that ome/office stuff and start with the advantage of having just about 150 such parasitic processes and its much easier to shut them down. Apparently ate the extreme, core mode only has like 2 to 3 of the most essential processing running and so the parasitic effect become negligible...or so I am told.

Yes, I also do beleive you that a Lumin or Aries as streamer is VERY viable and is probably more convenient/user friendly. However, be warned. DSD LOVES tubes.

[asindc]

Berkeley finally put some info on their web-site about it. Since around last November, it has said, "Coming soon".

The DSD part is a cop out. You need to use Jriver on a PC or Mac to play your files. That leaves out dedicated music servers, such as the Bryston BDP2.

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.

[Mike]

My DSD brother, permit me to disagree on just one point.

I am hearing that a modded PC (or Caps) running Windows 2012 Server R2 with Audiophile Optimiser with Jriver/Jplay playback in CORE mode is da bomb and will take on all comers. Asio USB connection of course. Such a setup will be in NYC for the show...my pal is loaning his setup (running into a Big7). Stay tuned for feedback... The Mac guys are saying that if one gets HQ Player and a Dac that can run the Decibel promoted Asio Driver for Mac, you are also getting outrageous DSD performance.

As a computer guy you know that the background processes are a killer for SQ and that consumer/business OpSys are running like a 1,000 "useless for audio" things in the background. Well the server version of Windows is more no frills that ome/office stuff and start with the advantage of having just about 150 such parasitic processes and its much easier to shut them down. Apparently ate the extreme, core mode only has like 2 to 3 of the most essential processing running and so the parasitic effect become negligible...or so I am told.

Yes, I also do beleive you that a Lumin or Aries as streamer is VERY viable and is probably more convenient/user friendly. However, be warned. DSD LOVES tubes.

INTERESTING! Server 2012. Now, as for DSD loving tubes....that's why the Allnic D5000 has me intrigued. But more research is required into how it exactly handles DSD files.

Norman - you need to get ahold of a Lumin S1 to try. Your opinions may change forever.

[wisnon]

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.

DSD processing? Now you done gone fwrong from the start. DSD only needs filtering any DSP/Decimation/processing will kill it. And this can be done in the same box. BA just does not want to go that route and I am fine with it, just not the misleading marketing spin.

[wisnon]

INTERESTING! Server 2012. Now, as for DSD loving tubes....that's why the Allnic D5000 has me intrigued. But more research is required into how it exactly handles DSD files.

Norman - you need to get ahold of a Lumin S1 to try. Your opinions may change forever.

First chance I get, you betcha ..given that you and Joe are happy that makes me curious (if it was in Florida or LI, you guys would be getting a bang on the door, LoL). Just dont rest on your laurels, the field continues to shift. Many great concurrent developments are happening. I still keep an open mind about the quality of this BADA RS and will also actively seek out a listen, though they are NOT RoHs compliant for Europe.

I heard the Big7 in NYC without core mode and was floored (totally demolished 2 "hot/highly touted" Dacs....it was not pretty! LoL. I am upgrading soon and after that its all about transport...whether waiting on Mac Asio driver with HQ Player, Aries or Core Mode Win2012.

[Mike]

The DSD part is a cop out. You need to use Jriver on a PC or Mac to play your files. That leaves out dedicated music servers, such as the Bryston BDP2.

Agreed. Bryston, Lumin, Linn and a few others. To not add native DSD (and no USB??) is indeed a cop out.

[Mike]

First chance I get, you betcha ..given that you and Joe are happy that makes me curious (if it was in Florida or LI, you guys would be getting a bang on the door, LoL). Just dont rest on your laurels, the field continues to shift. Many great concurrent developments are happening.

I heard the Big7 in NYC without core mode and was floored. I am upgrading soon and after that its all about transport...whether waiting on Mac Asio driver with HQ Player, Aries or Core Mode Win2012.

We will always agree on one thing Norman.....digital really does sound better with tubes (at least somewhere in the chain). This Allnic D5000 really has peaked my interest. I could use my Lumin's BNC digital out to the Allnic D5000 digital RCA in (just needs a BNC to digital RCA cable). Have you done much reading on it Norman?

[asindc]

DSD processing? Now you done gone fwrong from the start. DSD only needs filtering any DSP/Decimation/processing will kill it. And this can be done in the same box. BA just does not want to go that route and I am fine with it, just not the misleading marketing spin.

Ok, I'll substitute out the word "processing" for "filtering":

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD filtering inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.

[wisnon]

We will always agree on one thing Norman.....digital really does sound better with tubes (at least somewhere in the chain). This Allnic D5000 really has peaked my interest. I could use my Lumin's BNC digital out to the Allnic D5000 digital RCA in (just needs a BNC to digital RCA cable). Have you done much reading on it Norman?

Quite a bit. They seem to be well engineered and use a small FPGA to control the Sabre chip they use. They also seem to do a lot to control microphonics. I am not in love with their tube selection as they seem puny for DHTs. I do like that their preamp is $29k and that they "only" charge $12K for the Dac (with bling looks), so they resisted price gouging. Perhaps the L7 restrained them. The L7 preceeds this Dac by at least 8 months and will NOT be easily challenged in DSD by any comer! The PCM on the L7 surprised me how good it was as it takes on the DSD side full on. Finally the L7 now can accomodate 3 tube types, ie 45 and 101d triodes as direct swaps and 2A3s with the flick of a switch. I am off hunting NOS output tubes now, as I hear that recti rolls from the supplied tube will not make a big difference.

In summary, the Allnic seems fine and seems to be a good choice for people both from SQ (Albert Porter recommends) and looks. I personally will go with the Lampi thermionic solution, as I know the passion that went into it and the possibility of a refresh later on after Lukasz tweaks the design even further over time!

[wisnon]

Ok, I'll substitute out the word "processing" for "filtering":

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD filtering inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.


I have heard JRiver decimation..I have it. NOWHERE near native DSD playback on a Lampi.That is not even debatable for people who hear it...and I have even had this debate with Thorsten. Once you hear REAL DSD, then no amount of marketing spin will sway you.

And I can tell you that a filter box in a Faraday cage in now way compromises PCM playback, especially as it would be bypassed when PCM is playing, so unpowered.

That said, the RS should be a great PCM Dac and I am not putting it down in terms of SQ. I reserve judgement.

[Steve]

Winson...I have a self built CAPs ready to roll. I've even got lead sheeting in it. I can lay down W2012 R2 CORE, no problem. It has a SoTm USB. Are you saying that JRiver can be installed on a core & does not need the Windows GUI & can run as a service?

I'm not across JRiver yet & typically thought that it needed a full blown Windows OS to run. Obviously I am mistaken. If it can run on a core only, that is awesome & I am keen to try this out.

[wisnon]

Hi Steve,

Its all discussed here: Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8? (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/whos-used-audiophile-optimizer-windows-2012-server-or-windows-8-a-17897/)

Ted_B, ALRainbow and K6Davis seem to be the most advanced power users. Audiophil is a Swiss Guy from Zurich who developed the AO software . His website is www.highend-audiopc.com (http://www.highend-audiopc.com)

There he has instructions (pdf file) on how to proceed and the AO software is like $150 or so. I think you have to ensure that your processor is fast enough and that the motherboard is optimised for this, but all can be tested with th demo software.

[asindc]

I have heard JRiver decimation..I have it. NOWHERE near native DSD playback on a Lampi.That is not even debatable for people who hear it...and I have even had this debate with Thorsten. Once you hear REAL DSD, then no amount of marketing spin will sway you.

And I can tell you that a filter box in a Faraday cage in now way compromises PCM playback, especially as it would be bypassed when PCM is playing, so unpowered.

That said, the RS should be a great PCM Dac and I am not putting it down in terms of SQ. I reserve judgement.

I haven't heard the Lampi or JRiver in my system so I can't comment on either. With that said, I don't doubt your listening experiences with them. I did a bit more reading on the Lampi, however, and this caught my attention (the ALL CAPS are their's, the bolding is mine):

"THE LAMPIZATOR DSD DAC HAS USB PORT BUILT IN, SOLID STATE DIGITAL FILTER, PASSIVE DISCRETE ANALOG FILTER AND ACTIVE DISCRETE TUBE FILTER. IT DOES NOT MANIPULATE THE DATA IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, IT DOES NOT CONVERT IT, UPSAMPLE, RECLOCK OR DOWNSAMPLE. IT DOES NOT GO THROUGH PCM PROCESS EITHER. IT IS PUREST NATIVE DSD WE KNOW OF. WE PRACTICALLY ONLY GENTLY REMOVE THE CARRIER FREQUENCY FROM THE RAW DATA AS IT COMES FROM HARD DRIVE. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS."

I don't know if this is unique to Lampizator or not, but other DSD DACs do in fact either convert (Benchmark, Mytek), process (Chord, CH Precision, TechDAS, Wyred4Sound), or upsample (EMM, Meitner) DSD. In addition, Schiit also believes decoding both PCM and DSD in the same DAC would compromise performance, just as Berkeley does. In fact, this is what Schiit says about its DSD-only DAC:

"Because Loki is a DSD-dedicated design, with no PCM decoding, we were able to optimize the output stage and filtering to the unique requirements of DSD. The result is cleaner output, from a stage that isn’t compromised to try to accommodate both DSD and other digital sources."

Whether Schiit and Berkeley are correct in saying such or are just saying it for marketing purposes is beyond my expertise to reasonably scrutinize. I just know that less than 0.1% of the music I want to buy is available as DSD download (I wish it wasn't so). If I was to buy a Playstation 1 to rip SACDs, that number 'might' climb closer to 1%, but I seriously doubt it would be more than that. With that in mind, I'm not concerned about my DAC handling DSD. When I do upgrade my current DAC, I might buy one with DSD capability but that won't be a deciding factor for me.

[BlueFox]

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.

My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.

[wisnon]

Asindc,

The following Dacs treat DSD in native or near native form: Lampi, Meitner, EMM (upsamples all to DSD2x, still 1 bit), Ifi iDSD (BB1793 with DSD bypass pathway implemented), and a few others like the DSD-s from Alex. Some other use Sabre chip and other implementations that run in multi-bit SDM like the directStream, etc.

Schitt, Ayre, Benchmark, BA and even iFI/AMR are openly opposed to DSD on SQ principles. I strongly disagree, after hearing DSD done right.
I think there is some resistance and marketing positioning going on. I have tons of DSD myself, as I do have my own PS3 and so download when stuff goes on sale, but that is irrelevant! I want the choice and DSD is the ONLY way at present to get the path in one format from recording to playback. 99.99% of all ADCs are Delta sigma, so pure PCM pathways are stillborn. Mani in the UK has a vintage Pacific Microsonics 2 ADC (made by the guys from BA when they were PM) and he will be doing needle drops to playback via his Phasure NOS1A Dac....Pure PCM pathway and let us know. BTW, he thinks thet Phasure has the BA RS beat by 3 years and costs $10K less!

BTW, Ifi is a non-beleiver and still gave DSD their best shot and its very very good. Schitt DSD does not seem to be in the same league.

I have heard the Lampi B7 for 6 hours in NYC with quailty Woo/Sennhesier amps and quality HPs like the HE6, Stax Electro-Statics and the HD800. No compromise on PCM or DSD to my ears. Lampi is 2 Dacs in one box... and yes, Lukasz did test PCM only, DSD only and DSD/PCM combined Dacs for ANY dimunition in SQ. I am moving from a setup with a Lampi box just for PCM and another just for DSD to a combined setup. i would not do this if I sensed any SQ compromise.

[wisnon]

My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.

Fair enuff. I also think they are "camps" too. Andreas Koch/Meitner vs the BA crew....gunfight at OK Corral! LoL

None will give an inch, but we know they are all top gunfighters!

[asindc]

Asindc,

The following Dacs treat DSD in native or near native form: Lampi, Meitner, EMM (upsamples all to DSD2x, still 1 bit), Ifi iDSD (BB1793 with DSD bypass pathway implemented), and a few others like the DSD-s from Alex. Some other use Sabre chip and other implementations that run in multi-bit SDM like the directStream, etc.

Schitt, Ayre, Benchmark, BA and even iFI/AMR are openly opposed to DSD on SQ principles. I strongly disagree, after hearing DSD done right.
I think there is some resistance and marketing positioning going on. I have tons of DSD myself, as I do have my own PS3 and so download when stuff goes on sale, but that is irrelevant! I want the choice and DSD is the ONLY way at present to get the path in one format from recording to playback. 99.99% of all ADCs are Delta sigma, so pure PCM pathways are stillborn. Mani in the UK has a vintage Pacific Microsonics 2 ADC (made by the guys from BA when they were PM) and he will be doing needle drops to playback via his Phasure NOS1A Dac....Pure PCM pathway and let us know. BTW, he thinks thet Phasure has the BA RS beat by 3 years and costs $10K less!

BTW, Ifi is a non-beleiver and still gave DSD their best shot and its very very good. Schitt DSD does not seem to be in the same league.

I have heard the Lampi B7 for 6 hours in NYC with quailty Woo/Sennhesier amps and quality HPs like the HE6, Stax Electro-Statics and the HD800. No compromise on PCM or DSD to my ears. Lampi is 2 Dacs in one box... and yes, Lukasz did test PCM only, DSD only and DSD/PCM combined Dacs for ANY dimunition in SQ. I am moving from a setup with a Lampi box just for PCM and another just for DSD to a combined setup. i would not do this if I sensed any SQ compromise.

DSD vs. PCM does not interest me, as I tend to be agnostic with all things audio (analog vs. digital, Redbook vs. SACD vs. HDCD, etc.). The interest here for me is whether or not the BADA DAC RS is a viable solution despite the fact that it does not do DSD. I'd be more interested in DSD if it was more widely available. Since it is not, however, it won't factor into my decision about what DAC to get next. I say this with the understanding that I might generally find it to be superior to PCM if not for the lack of titles. By the way, I have been following the thread at computeraudiophile in reaction to Chris' review and I read Mani's comments. Mani didn't say whether or not he has heard the BADA DAC RS, so I'll leave it there.

[asindc]

My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.

It would not surprise me either if they introduced a DSD-capable DAC at some point. How it would be implemented is the question.

[wisnon]

DSD vs. PCM does not interest me, as I tend to be agnostic with all things audio (analog vs. digital, Redbook vs. SACD vs. HDCD, etc.). The interest here for me is whether or not the BADA DAC RS is a viable solution despite the fact that it does not do DSD. I'd be more interested in DSD if it was more widely available. Since it is not, however, it won't factor into my decision about what DAC to get next. I say this with the understanding that I might generally find it to be superior to PCM if not for the lack of titles. By the way, I have been following the thread at computeraudiophile in reaction to Chris' review and I read Mani's comments. Mani didn't say whether or not he has heard the BADA DAC RS, so I'll leave it there.


Dont get me wrong, I LOVE DSD but also well recorded PCM as well, so we are not far apart.

I dont think Mani has heard the BA RS as its very new. His point is that the characteristics described (making RBCD sound thele Hirez) is what ALL The Phasurites claim, ie GLORY, Anthony, Mani, Alain, etc. If this is indeed the case, then Mani is right, the BA got beat by 3 years!!!!
I unlike you have enuff DSD to make it a big factor in MY decision. We all must suit ourselves.

[mauidan]

Since buying a Lumin, I've stopped reading about DAC's....they are inferior in every way to a network streamer IMO. I've owned 20 DAC's like the DAC2X, MA-1 and demoed many more. It just seems that every month there is a new DAC, then, people try it and become disappointed. Why? Because there is no constant!! Everyone has different USB cables, different computers, different software, different everything. All of these front end items negatively affect the sound. Computers do no belong in high end audio systems. Period. Yes, and I've even owned modified MAC's, CAPS 3.0, etc. Companies like Lumin, Linn, Bryston, etc. are on the right track IMO.

NOW, the exception to this for me would be to use the Lumin as the player/controller and run BNC out into a separate TUBE DAC to experiment. But buying a DAC, USB cable, windows or Mac computer, JRiver, no thanks.

As for DSD files, I'm the wrong guy to be asking that question in hopes of a low number. The number is north of 10,000 (from more than 1000 SACD's plus downloads). I've been promoting DSD for years.

As I said, I would love to hear the Berkely DAC and it's accompanying USB gizmo combo in my system and be convinced. And if Jerry is getting one (he is the undeniable king of DACS), then I may get a chance since he is local to me. And if it beats the Lumin S1, I will be happy to say so. I'm not married to anything except my wife.

Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream (http://www.audiostream.com/content/bryston-bda-2-and-bdp-2)).
http://audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7790&stc=1

Didn't know you had so many DSD files.

How about a top ten list for those of us that would like to explore DSD.

[wisnon]

Mike's streamer is a purpose built computer, so that is the starting advantage.

Regarding a top 10 list, Matej from monoandstereo.com has been promising this since the start of Summer. Try pushing him to do it, why dont ya? He must be ignoring me by now after my multiple requests. LoL

If you are new to DSD, try the Opus 3 samplers.

For me its complicated, as I have DSD128 needledrops and I love all things DSD128.

Here are a couple of other reccs. Elvis 57 DSD64.HajimeMizoguchi 13, Joe Holland Quartet- HDTT Vol 2, Luther Vandross albums, etc.

[astrotoy]

I am currently beta testing out Bob W.'s (HDTT) first DSD256 files on my E28. Should have a listen by this weekend. One thing he can do is DSD from tapes, so no problems with editing.

Wisnon, I see you are doing needledrops with DSD128. How do you edit scratches and clicks out? Do you have a pro set up?

I started my big ripping project five years ago, before DSD, so all my rips are 192/24PCM and I edit using my Pyramix software and Izotope RX2 Advanced to do declicking.

Larry

[BlueFox]

Mikes streamer is a purpose built computer, so that is the starting advantage.

I suspect it isn't based on Windows or Mac, but probably Linux. Linux appears to be better at optimizing for a specific task.

[wisnon]

I think so too. Windows 2012 server also is "lighter" than commercial/consumer versions.

Astertoy, I dont do the needledrops, i got a few from a friend. Not sure what his technique is.

[mauidan]

I suspect it isn't based on Windows or Mac, but probably Linux. Linux appears to be better at optimizing for a specific task.

I'm sure your right, but it's still just a computer in a very nice box. The Bryston BDP-2 is also Linux based just like the Auraliti file players.

BTW, I just talked to someone who was involved in the Alpha REF's development, there's no Native DSD playback in BA's future.

[Steve]

Hi Steve,

Its all discussed here: Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8? (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/whos-used-audiophile-optimizer-windows-2012-server-or-windows-8-a-17897/)

Ted_B, ALRainbow and K6Davis seem to be the most advanced power users. Audiophil is a Swiss Guy from Zurich who developed the AO software . His website is www.highend-audiopc.com (http://www.highend-audiopc.com)

There he has instructions (pdf file) on how to proceed and the AO software is like $150 or so. I think you have to ensure that your processor is fast enough and that the motherboard is optimised for this, but all can be tested with th demo software.

Winson...Thanks. My box has an i7 3770T (IvyBridge) & Gigabyte Sniper m3 Z77 Board. I went with this config b/c of the board's build quality & I can easily adjust the voltages even with the low TDP CPU. So there is room to underclock & overclock a little. Also, the design allows you to disable pretty much everything on board that is not required.

[wisnon]

Winson...Thanks. My box has an i7 3770T (IvyBridge) & Gigabyte Sniper m3 Z77 Board. I went with this config b/c of the board's build quality & I can easily adjust the voltages even with the low TDP CPU. So there is room to underclock & overclock a little. Also, the design allows you to disable pretty much everything on board that is not required.
Cool, I trust you found the setup guide useful: http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/audiophile_optimizer_setup_guide.pdf

[Steve]

Cool, I trust you found the setup guide useful: http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/audiophile_optimizer_setup_guide.pdf

Excellent! Much of my own planning has been reconfirmed in the document & more. Very helpful.

I was planning on installing just a single Samsung 1TB SSD, but now I will install another SSD dedicated for OS based on the advice.

BTW, I have been using SOtM SATA filters in my cable satellite STB for quite some time. In addition, to lead lining its internal switch mode PSU & covering ICs with 1mm EM adhesive shielding, it makes a huge performance difference!!!! This is for cable television. So you could imagine what these sorts of little tweaks would do for a CAPs build. I'm in the camp that all digital boxes are just purposed computers. Building a silent Wintel box is no different as long as you can wind it down to essentials.

[wisnon]

Steve, you should start a thread for this topic here. I think many will be interested.
TedB says he will write an article on digital transport options in a week or so.

[Steve]

OK Winson, will do. I will post my work to date which has essentially been some assembly with a little preliminary concept testing to ensure I was on track with hardware choice. Given time constraints, my attention to this project has been lacking. Nevertheless, there has been substantial progress in the CAPs community over the past 12 months since I started building a Zuma inspired machine. Needless to say, many garage grown products emerging like Paul Pang, HDPlex linear PSUs & Emile's "-E-" low grunt Silenzio.

[FlexibleAudio]

A little fuel for the fire.....

From Soulution's web site regarding their new $35,000 DAC:


Audio data is buffered then upsampled to 24Bit/384kHz. We believe precision of inter*polation is more impor*tant than high clock rates. Our players and D/A converters use an algorithm from the highly regarded Anagram Technologies followed by Burr Brown D/A converters in a digital symmetric configuration. As we consider the PCM conversion technology as superior, the DSD signals get converted before its final D/A conversion.

[BlueFox]

I was reading the Berekely review in TAS, and they said they can only build two a day, and it takes a trained engineer, using $100k worth of test equipment and $100k worth of audio gear, to do the final alignment, whatever that consists of.

[mauidan]

I was reading the Berekely review in TAS, and they said they can only build two a day, and it takes a trained engineer, using $100k worth of test equipment and $100k worth of audio gear, to do the final alignment, whatever that consists of.
I was told the same information.
The final alignment is done on Magico Q3s.

[FlexibleAudio]

Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream (http://www.audiostream.com/content/bryston-bda-2-and-bdp-2)).

That's what I was thinking (all be it a very good computer and a very good dac in a very nice box).

This may not be the right place to ask this but a lot of you have a lot of insight.

Regarding the best digital to analog architecture, I am trying to figure this stuff out. As I understand it you gotta go from raw digital data to analog in the way that sounds the best (i.e., with as little added noise from required components, the lowest digital artifacts, time distortions etc.) To do this you need:

1) Storage to hold the raw digital data: a Hard Drive (loud) or Solid State (quiet).

2) A motherboard with a clock and a chipset to decode the raw digital data.

3) A DAC with it's own clock to take the decoded digital data from the chipset in the motherboard and make analog out of it.

So it sounds like keeping the raw storage separate from everything else and thereby isolating the hard drive noise through the an ethernet connection is a great start.

Next making a purpose built motherboard that runs the simplest, quietest software with a quiet, linear power supply is a good next step.

Then the question is whether you keep the DAC in that same box with the motherboard or you make it a separate unit. The benefits of it being in the same box is that you can easily synchronize the DAC clock with the motherboard decoding clock without having to go through an asynchronous usb which can sound less than optimum.

The benefit of putting the DAC in a separate box is that you avoid any noise from the motherboard and chip set, you can sell it and upgrade as DAC technology evolves and you have access to the higher end of the DAC market which all seem to be stand alone (msb, dcs, trinity etc.). You can use balanced interconnect for the best sound and you can still synchronize the clocks with a bnc or a buffer at the dac can be used for re-clocking.

So if I have something really wrong please comment but if this captures the essence of whats happening is there an inherently preferable approach that people prefer and why?

[BlueFox]

I was told the same information.
The final alignment is done on Magico Q3s.

Berkeley and Magico, two high-end audio companies who are neighbors. It would be nice to see the East Bay area turn into an audio zone.

[Mike]

Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream (http://www.audiostream.com/content/bryston-bda-2-and-bdp-2)).
http://audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7790&stc=1

Didn't know you had so many DSD files.

How about a top ten list for those of us that would like to explore DSD.

That's overly simplistic. My Lumin isn't running Windows or Mac OSX or any additional non-audio related functions. It may have some similar parts, but you are forgetting the most important difference. You still have to transfer your music via a USB cable - highly inferior to packs of data via CAT6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mauidan]

That's overly simplistic. My Lumin isn't running Windows or Mac OSX or any additional non-audio related functions. It may have some similar parts, but you are forgetting the most important difference. You still have to transfer your music via a USB cable - highly inferior to packs of data via CAT6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It doesn't make any difference what OS it's running, you still have a computer in your S1.

Your S1's computer isn't transferring data to the DAC via CAT6.

[Mike]

It does make any difference what OS it's running, you still have a computer in your S1.

Your S1's computer isn't transferring data to the DAC via CAT6.

Again, overly simplistic. The data is coming from the NAS via Ethernet (cat6).

Have you even heard a Lumin S1?

I've had 20 DACS, Mac's, windows, CAPS 3.0, red wine PSU, WW platinum USB cables, you name it. I speak from experience.

If you're happy with a DAC and Mac setup, great. But sonically, you're missing the mark.

[Audioseduction]

You still have to transfer your music via a USB cable - highly inferior to packs of data via CAT6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would highly disagree with this remark. You need to have a listen to my system.

[mauidan]

Again, overly simplistic. The data is coming from the NAS via Ethernet (cat6).

Have you even heard a Lumin S1?

I've had 20 DACS, Mac's, windows, CAPS 3.0, red wine PSU, WW platinum USB cables, you name it. I speak from experience.

If you're happy with a DAC and Mac setup, great. But sonically, you're missing the mark.

Mike,

I'm sure the S1(haven't heard it) is a wonderful product, but it still has a computer inside it and it's not transfering data to the DAC via CAT6.

The "mark" is decoding the digital files, and that's all about the DAC and flavor of it's analog output stage.

I'm very happy with the performance of the CAT6 signal going into my Auraliti PK 90 w/linear psu and it's USB output into my Aesthetix Pandora Signature DAC.

Instead of spending $15K, for a S1, I ordered a Devialet 200.

[BlueFox]

I guess I am missing something here. Everything is a computer now. The issue is how well does the computer do its job. For example, the Bryston BDP-1/2 is an optimized Linux computer, with digital and analog power supplies, upgraded sound card, with no fans and spinning hard drives, and is designed to do one thing; take a file from an external drive and send it to an external DAC. You can't write an email, surf the net, play porno videos, or do anything else with it. You can just play digital music files.

Aside from doing that one task really well, it also looks great in the rack with the other audio gear.


Edit:

However, I wonder why the file reading from the USB drive couldn't be added at the DAC? That would eliminate a lot of electronics, and, hopefully, improve the sound.

[wisnon]

I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.
ASindc,

This is the quality DSD I listen to, so I can only laugh at the DSD-phobes:

LampizatOr DSD DAC: First Listen (Updated & Revisited) | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile (http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/07/04/lampizator-dsd-dac/)

[Mike]

Mike,

I'm sure the S1(haven't heard it) is a wonderful product, but it still has a computer inside it and it's not transfering data to the DAC via CAT6.

The "mark" is decoding the digital files, and that's all about the DAC and flavor of it's analog output stage.

I'm very happy with the performance of the CAT6 signal going into my Auraliti PK 90 w/linear psu and it's USB output into my Aesthetix Pandora Signature DAC.

Instead of spending $15K, for a S1, I ordered a Devialet 200.

First, the S1 is $12,500 MSRP (much less if ordered through me). The Devialet 200 is a terrific product, I've had one in my system, along with a 800 too. But first, no DSD, second, you must agree to live within the Devialet ecosystem or suffer as the A-D-A is bad at best (save for the Phonostage which I found to be quite good). And as for comparing the DAC in the Devialet with a Lumin (which I did), I still much preferred the sound of the Lumin.

Now, what you could do (and I did) is run digital out of the Lumin into the Devialet and at the Lumin stage, convert at DSD to PCM (not ideal, but it worked).

[Mike]

ASindc,

This is the quality DSD I listen to, so I can only laugh at the DSD-phobes:

LampizatOr DSD DAC: First Listen (Updated & Revisited) | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile (http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/07/04/lampizator-dsd-dac/)

I still must hear this Norman.

Ok, we've officially hijacked the poor Berkeley thread.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming....

[FlexibleAudio]

It occurs to me that many of my friends make judgements in the PCM versus DSD wars based on their personal listening experience which has more to do with the level of execution of the player/dac/anolog section than the digital format.

I have seen DSD people flip to PCM and vice versa based of execution of the system. Many strong PCM advocates will have a system (dac) designed for PCM first and use marginally compromised (i.e., sub optimum) DSD playback. When pushed to find out on what system they have based their negative views about DSD I find they haven't listened to DSD at its best.

Conversely, many strong DSD advocates will have a system (dac) designed for DSD first and use compromised PCM playback. When pushed to find out on what system they have based their negative views about PCM I find they haven't listened to PCM at its best.

Personally, when I have heard the best of DSD and the best of PCM I am not able to make a distinction across a wide selection of titles and recordings as to which format is superior.

Based on this view I see no reason to stray from PCM given title availability and the Berkeley RS has my attention.

[wisnon]

I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.

[wisnon]

I still must hear this Norman.

Ok, we've officially hijacked the poor Berkeley thread.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming....

Not really, not enough people have one yet and reviews are still scarce. We are just running the clock down till we have more material to chew on. LoL

[astrotoy]

I think my Exasound E28 is stronger for DSD than PCM, I could be wrong, since I almost exclusively use the E28 for DSD, and almost all of that is mch DSD. I am playing my first 256DSD file (a beta of an HDTT album, not released yet - stereo, almost certainly from a prerecorded R2R tape). I don't have a PCM version of this album. It works fine with the E28. For PCM files (other than mch) I use my BADA2 +BADA USD.

Larry


I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.

[FlexibleAudio]

I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.


Yes I am familiar with and respect your views on DSD. Regarding your comments, I was referring to top dacs that sound better playing DSD than playing PCM and vice versa. I was not making a distinction about their dac architecture (not sure why I would; the sound is the point). In one camp you have PD, EMM, Meitner, Mytek et. al. and in the other camp you have MSB, Trinity, CH Precision et. al.

My point is when I hear DSD on the PD MPS5 and PCM on the MSD Diamond I do not have a preference and so go for titles. At this level the recording makes much more of a difference to me than the format anyway.

[wisnon]

Yes I am familiar with and respect your views on DSD. Regarding your comments, I was referring to top dacs that sound better playing DSD than playing PCM and vice versa. I was not making a distinction about their dac architecture (not sure why I would; the sound is the point). In one camp you have PD, EMM, Meitner, Mytek et. al. and in the other camp you have MSB, Trinity, CH Precision et. al.

My point is when I hear DSD on the PD MPS5 and PCM on the MSD Diamond I do not have a preference and so go for titles. At this level the recording makes much more of a difference to me than the format anyway.
OK, understood. However, MSB Platinum does lovel DSD as well. Finally, no PCM sounds as good as DSD128…in my opinion.

[FlexibleAudio]

OK, understood. However, MSB Platinum does lovel DSD as well. Finally, no PCM sounds as good as DSD128…in my opinion.


Yes, I plan to give DSD 128 another shake before I buy something largely due to your input.......thanks. ;)

[wisnon]

My pleasure Flex. I hope you find it enjoyable.

NativeDSD.com should be the main provider of DSD128 material going forward. Cant wait for them to get MA records on board. Todd Garfinkle's recordings are stunningly good.

[Ritmo]

Just read the TAS review on this DAC. Extremely positive opinion. I may need to listen to it as I consider upgrading from my ARC DAC-8. Don't care about it not having USB digital in. I don't have any DSD recordings. If it's as good as suggested and don't have to do an MSB Sig or Dia, DCS Viv or Eso D-02 investment which are all a ton of money, it may be worth considering. I'll be looking at this DAC over the next few months. We'll see!

[FlexibleAudio]

No bnc in or out for clock sync. I guess they are relying on buffering but kind of a disappointment.

[bonzo]

Hi Anthony, same Bonzo from the MLO forum. Just stumbled onto Audioshark because a tweaker recommended it. Do try the Lampi. Haven't compared to BADA, but it beats various on PCM much more expensive, and the DSD is outstanding. After you listen to it, you might make DSD the deciding factor, because you will likely not be giving up quality on PCM anyway. They usually have excellent trial service as well. I too started last year with 1% of my songs on DSD, now I have a lot.

Check out this quote from What's Best Forum "I auditionned at home Vivaldi Dac , Metronome c 8 and a new Gryphone Kalliope fed from W20. All of them had some advantages over La Fontaine, but the overall presentation of Audio Aero is closest to my preferences : fast, detailed and precise sound but on the musical , rich and warmer side. My former player before I switched to AA was ARC Ref 8 and I liked it a lot during nearly 3 years. Then I decided to go " files" and that's a pity AA is closed - my next upgrade could be La Source.
I will go dsd with Lampi instead."

Sorry to go off topic guys, back to the OP


I haven't heard the Lampi or JRiver in my system so I can't comment on either. With that said, I don't doubt your listening experiences with them. I did a bit more reading on the Lampi, however, and this caught my attention (the ALL CAPS are their's, the bolding is mine):

"THE LAMPIZATOR DSD DAC HAS USB PORT BUILT IN, SOLID STATE DIGITAL FILTER, PASSIVE DISCRETE ANALOG FILTER AND ACTIVE DISCRETE TUBE FILTER. IT DOES NOT MANIPULATE THE DATA IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, IT DOES NOT CONVERT IT, UPSAMPLE, RECLOCK OR DOWNSAMPLE. IT DOES NOT GO THROUGH PCM PROCESS EITHER. IT IS PUREST NATIVE DSD WE KNOW OF. WE PRACTICALLY ONLY GENTLY REMOVE THE CARRIER FREQUENCY FROM THE RAW DATA AS IT COMES FROM HARD DRIVE. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS."

I don't know if this is unique to Lampizator or not, but other DSD DACs do in fact either convert (Benchmark, Mytek), process (Chord, CH Precision, TechDAS, Wyred4Sound), or upsample (EMM, Meitner) DSD. In addition, Schiit also believes decoding both PCM and DSD in the same DAC would compromise performance, just as Berkeley does. In fact, this is what Schiit says about its DSD-only DAC:

"Because Loki is a DSD-dedicated design, with no PCM decoding, we were able to optimize the output stage and filtering to the unique requirements of DSD. The result is cleaner output, from a stage that isn’t compromised to try to accommodate both DSD and other digital sources."

Whether Schiit and Berkeley are correct in saying such or are just saying it for marketing purposes is beyond my expertise to reasonably scrutinize. I just know that less than 0.1% of the music I want to buy is available as DSD download (I wish it wasn't so). If I was to buy a Playstation 1 to rip SACDs, that number 'might' climb closer to 1%, but I seriously doubt it would be more than that. With that in mind, I'm not concerned about my DAC handling DSD. When I do upgrade my current DAC, I might buy one with DSD capability but that won't be a deciding factor for me.

[wisnon]

Yeah, Bruce Brown said this:

Bruce B

Well I've had this DAC for just over a week now and it's been running constantly with no stop. It has about 200+ hours on it now and while I was sitting here doing nothing, waiting for some file transfers, I decided to crank up volume. It's been running in the background the whole time.
Listening to some 70's rock, I can't believe the clarity and transparency this thing has. I know with some 70's rock the sound isn't that great sometimes. Most of the time it's pretty homogenized with not much separation between instruments and such.
Listening to Boston, Dylan, CCR and such I can't believe how much this DAC has improved since the first inception that I reviewed months ago. I listened some to it last weekend and I'll tell you the truth. I wasn't really impressed. It was good, but no where near the PBD or PS Audio. I'm listening to it now and it's a total transformation! This is certainly the best DSD I've heard from any DAC! Again, on 70's rock, sometimes the guitars can wear on you and the vocals, especially on Boston, can become strident. Now they take on a roundness that will only encourage you to turn it up!! The snare has snap, the bottom end bass guitars have a clear beginning and end and not lost in the kick drum. You can hear a definite separation between the two. I particularly listened to the cymbals. I know they can get lost in the hiss and sibilance but not with this DAC.
On Dylan, I feel some of his music can become pedestrian and boring. Not with the Lampi. I've been listening to "Blonde on Blonde", "Nashville Skyline", "Oh Mercy", "Love and Theft" and "Planet Waves". Dylan is exciting again. I'm enjoying my server much better. It's definitely closer to tape, but with the convenience of digital.


and Mep said:

mep
I'm going to throw out a little tease and say that the Lampi Level 4 DAC in combination with my REF 5SE and REF 75, is doing something via DSD that I have never heard digital do before.



and then:

marslo

I am among those happy people who may listen to Lampi dsd dac at home. I received a demo unit from Łukasz last Tuesday. The first day i wondered what do you guys hear so special in this Lampi. My Vega did much better. I left Lampi for some 20 hours playing and the next day I could not belive my ears. This is completaly new experience for me -digital sounding better than analog. After few days in Munich I am back home and enjoy Nat King Cole singing in front of me.

[bmichels]

Comparing the Berkeley Alpha DAC Reference Serie DAC and the NAGRA HD DAC will be interesting : Similar pricing but totally opposite approach (Berkley do not play DSD, NAGRA convert everything internaly to DSD). Who is right ? :-)

[mauidan]

Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series | The Absolute Sound (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/berkeley-audio-design-alpha-dac-reference-series/)