MAGICO M9’s

[Mike]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200729/66ffae7e668c7484d58a3c17087a4b69.jpg

[Calvin]

Well that looks pretty good - really good.

Wonder what it sounds like?

[Alpinist]

Nice photo. Four CH Precision M1 monoblocks driving them. Magico needs to trickle their new driver technology down to their M Series and S Series pronto. Right now, only the M9 and A5 have it.

Ken

[UltraFast69]

That has to be a million dollar setup.


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[steve59]

Not sure about the looks, for a Magico I mean. It looks more like a B&O product imo. Personally knowing squat about magico or their design goals I'm truly no authority, but this doesn't look like an evolution of previous products to me.

[Mike]

I would prefer to hear this with four MSB M500 monos!

[mep]

Not sure about the looks, for a Magico I mean. It looks more like a B&O product imo. Personally knowing squat about magico or their design goals I'm truly no authority, but this doesn't look like an evolution of previous products to me.

Since you just stated you don't know squat about Magico or their design goals, why would you state that the M9 doesn't look like an evolution of previous products?

[Calvin]

I wonder what they would sound like with four MSB M500s?

[Puma Cat]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200729/66ffae7e668c7484d58a3c17087a4b69.jpg

Man, there's all sorts of distortion goin' on in that photograph. Also the camera is not level nor centered with respect to the subject (the optical axis of the lens is pointed to the left).

[mep]

Man, there's all sorts of distortion goin' on in that photograph. Also the camera is not level nor centered with respect to the subject (the optical axis of the lens is pointed to the left).

Are you trying to get hired by Magico to be their photographer?

[NorthStar]

Mike, is it all for sale?

[Dizzie]

Mike, is it all for sale?

If I remember the room correctly that is the Magico factory showroom.

[Mike]

If I remember the room correctly that is the Magico factory showroom.

It sure is! I can’t wait to hear them.


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[BlueFox]

I listened to an S5, S7 comparison in that room. I bet whoever sets up the room gets a good workout.

[Puma Cat]

Are you trying to get hired by Magico to be their photographer?

That's actually a good idea. They're local, just down the road. I should reach out to them about that. They could use some shots of their room that are at least "square", level, and lit properly.

[CGabriel]

That's actually a good idea. They're local, just down the road. I should reach out to them about that. They could use some shots of their room that are at least "square", level, and lit properly.

You could really help them PUMA!

[Mike]

I think Alon is a professional photographer. I saw his studio. It’s incredible.


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[LVB]

That's actually a good idea. They're local, just down the road. I should reach out to them about that. They could use some shots of their room that are at least "square", level, and lit properly.

LOL, don’t forget to bring your Phaseone (I think), technical camera

Mono and Stereo: MAGICO M9 (https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/07/magico-m9.html#more)

[Mike]

ALON WOLF PHOTOGRAPHY (http://www.awolfphotography.com)


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[Puma Cat]

I think Alon is a professional photographer. I saw his studio. It’s incredible.


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That may be, but that photo of the "showroom" is certainly not up to professional standards, by any stretch...

[Mikado463]

agreed, not to mention the angle of the photo highlights the 'wire mess' behind the racks. Regardless, I for one think the speakers are borderline 'fugly' .............flame suit on !

[Mike]

That may be, but that photo of the "showroom" is certainly not up to professional standards, by any stretch...

I think it was meant to be a quick and dirty iPhone shot. I’m happy to see the M9’s in the wild! Gives a great perspective.


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[Puma Cat]

I think it was meant to be a quick and dirty iPhone shot. I’m happy to see the M9’s in the wild! Gives a great perspective.

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Yep, that was my thought as well. :D

I've been doing a lot of professional RE and Architectural Photography for the last year or so I see "everything" with respect to "problems", including color contamination. I just "can't not see it" anymore...LOL.

[CGabriel]

I don’t know Mike. It sure looks a lot like a fattened up YG Sonja.

[Mike]

I don’t know Mike. It sure looks a lot like a fattened up YG Sonja.

No flat surfaces that I can see on the M9.

[imprezap2]

No flat surfaces that I can see on the M9.

The Sonja surfaces are not flat either (only top and bottom plate), curves are more sublte, I can agree with that.

[GSOphile]

agreed, not to mention the angle of the photo highlights the 'wire mess' behind the racks. Regardless, I for one think the speakers are borderline 'fugly' .............flame suit on !
For me M2 and M3 are really attractive. But the M9 doesn't cut it looks wise. IMHO of course. (For the record, I am a Magico owner.)

[CGabriel]

It’s always hard to tell from a photo how big it actually is, would have to see it in person. I like the basic shape. And I am sure it will sound incredible. Notice that the tweeter is quite low, so if thats an indicator, it is a big one. I am sure small rooms and small wallets need not apply.

[a.wayne]

Its a serious build , plenty tech in the approach, but yet it’s Still a lot of money and speaker for a single point source tweeter ...

Interesting to see how it competes with the other Top tier products like the large MBL’s for eg ..

[Puma Cat]

It’s always hard to tell from a photo how big it actually is, would have to see it in person. I like the basic shape. And I am sure it will sound incredible. Notice that the tweeter is quite low, so if thats an indicator, it is a big one. I am sure small rooms and small wallets need not apply.

Yeah, judging from the speaker's size relative to the size of the racks, the M9 looks to be between 5'9" and 6' tall.

So, that would likely put the tweeter at or near ear level when seated. And I would agree it would need to be in quite a large (long from front to back) and fairly tall room and well away from the side & front walls, or there'd be all sorts of room mode problems from those big drivers.

Perfect opportunity to use a DOE to optimize placement of them...

[Puma Cat]

Its a serious build , plenty tech in the approach, but yet it’s Still a lot of money and speaker for a single point source tweeter ...


Single point source tweeters are good; in fact, optimal. Multiple tweeters just make driver integration and front baffle design more complex.

From a systems engineering perspective, simpler solutions to achieve functionality are better than more complex ones. There is less possibility of interactions with other control factors (e.g,, the other drivers, front baffle, and cabinet), less susceptibility to noise factors (factors which move the speaker's response off-target and/or add variance, which the control factors then have to try to fix), and better reliability and durability.

In engineering, the point is not to use as much tech as possible to provide the optimal functional response, it's to use as little tech as possible to achieve the functional response. This makes systems simpler, more effective and efficient, allows them to be on-target with minimal variation in a wider variety of use- or environmental cases and less subject to the impact of noise factors, and gets them closer to the concept of "ideality" as described by Altschuler's TRIZ (theory of inventive problem-solving).

It also makes products more reliable and durable as there is less stuff to break and go wrong.

[BlueFox]

Single point source tweeters are good; in fact, optimal. Multiple tweeters just make driver integration and front baffle design more complex.

From a systems engineering perspective, simpler solutions to achieve functionality are better than more complex ones. There is less possibility of interactions with other control factors (e.g,, the other drivers, front baffle, and cabinet), less susceptibility to noise factors (factors which move the speaker's response off-target and/or add variance, which the control factors then have to try to fix), and better reliability and durability.

In engineering, the point is not to use as much tech as possible to provide the optimal functional response, it's to use as little tech as possible to achieve the functional response. This makes systems simpler, more effective and efficient, allows them to be on-target with minimal variation in a wider variety of use- or environmental cases and less subject to the impact of noise factors, and gets them closer to the concept of "ideality" as described by Altschuler's TRIZ (theory of inventive problem-solving).

It also makes products more reliable and durable as there is less stuff to break and go wrong.

As a retired software engineers, I agree with this. My philosophy is 'Simplicity succeeds, complexity fails.'

Of course speakers that require two amplifiers each to work don't meet that standard. :)

[Alpinist]

Yeah, judging from the speaker's size relative to the size of the racks, the M9 looks to be between 5'9" and 6' tall.

So, that would likely put the tweeter at or near ear level when seated. And I would agree it would need to be in quite a large (long from front to back) and fairly tall room and well away from the side & front walls, or there'd be all sorts of room mode problems from those big drivers.

Perfect opportunity to use a DOE to optimize placement of them...


SPECIFICATIONS
Driver complement:
1.10-inch diamond coated Beryllium tweeter (x1)
6-inch Gen 8 Magico Nano-Tec cone with Aluminum honeycomb core (x1)
11-inch Gen 8 Magico Nano-Tec cones with Aluminum honeycomb core (x2)
15-inch Gen 8 Magico Nano-Tec cones with Aluminum honeycomb core (x2)
Sensitivity: 94 dB
Impedance: 4 ohms
Frequency response: 18 Hz – 50 kHz
Power handling: 20 W (min) to 2000 W (max)
Dimensions:
Loudspeaker: 80” H x 40” D x 20” W (203 x 102 x 51 cm)
Crossover: 8” H x 18” D x 20” W (20 x 46 x 51 cm)
Crossover power supply: 8” H x 18” D x 20” W (20 x 46 x 51 cm)
Weight:
Loudspeaker: 1000 pounds (454 kg) each
Crossover: 40 lbs. (18 kg)
Crossover power supply: 60 lbs. (27 kg)
Suggested US Retail Price: $750,000/pair
Ship date: Q4 2020

[a.wayne]

Single point source tweeters are good; in fact, optimal. Multiple tweeters just make driver integration and front baffle design more complex.

From a systems engineering perspective, simpler solutions to achieve functionality are better than more complex ones. There is less possibility of interactions with other control factors (e.g,, the other drivers, front baffle, and cabinet), less susceptibility to noise factors (factors which move the speaker's response off-target and/or add variance, which the control factors then have to try to fix), and better reliability and durability.

In engineering, the point is not to use as much tech as possible to provide the optimal functional response, it's to use as little tech as possible to achieve the functional response. This makes systems simpler, more effective and efficient, allows them to be on-target with minimal variation in a wider variety of use- or environmental cases and less subject to the impact of noise factors, and gets them closer to the concept of "ideality" as described by Altschuler's TRIZ (theory of inventive problem-solving).

It also makes products more reliable and durable as there is less stuff to break and go wrong.

Yes single point source is simple and easier to do and thats my point , its too simple for such a SOTA attempt , multiple tweeters lower thd and have much better dynamic expression and recovery to keep up with the larger driver area supporting the other frequencies..

This is obvious to me when hearing the large MBL’s or other linesource type Speakers ..

[GSOphile]

Yes single point source is simple and easier to do and thats my point , its too simple for such a SOTA attempt , multiple tweeters lower thd and have much better dynamic expression and recovery to keep up with the larger driver area supporting the other frequencies..

This is obvious to me when hearing the large MBL’s or other linesource type Speakers ..
Well, the M9 isn't a line source speaker. And there are other major speaker brands that have chosen single point tweeter designs for their SOTA flagships, e.g., Wilson, YG Acoustics, Rockport, Gryphon, Tidal, etc. I don't think their approaches are 'too simple' - just maybe not what appeals to you.

[Puma Cat]

Well, the M9 isn't a line source speaker. And there are other major speaker brands that have chosen single point tweeter designs for their SOTA flagships, e.g., Wilson, YG Acoustics, Rockport, Gryphon, Tidal, etc. I don't think their approaches are 'too simple' - just maybe not what appeals to you.

And, not to forget TAD, Dynaudio, Harbeth, Vivid, etc., who know also know a thing or two about speakers.

[Puma Cat]

Yes single point source is simple and easier to do and thats my point , its too simple for such a SOTA attempt , multiple tweeters lower thd and have much better dynamic expression and recovery to keep up with the larger driver area supporting the other frequencies..

This is obvious to me when hearing the large MBL’s or other linesource type Speakers ..

Complexity for the sake of complexity is not a wise nor effective philosophy for design or functionality. For anything. Especially for manufactured products that have to be kept in statistical control in Ops. All that increased complexity does is increase variance and occurence of failure modes, decrease reliability and durability, drive up COPQ, and decrease profit.

The simpler, the more a design can approach Altschuler's Principle of Ideality, the better.

[a.wayne]

Well, the M9 isn't a line source speaker. And there are other major speaker brands that have chosen single point tweeter designs for their SOTA flagships, e.g., Wilson, YG Acoustics, Rockport, Gryphon, Tidal, etc. I don't think their approaches are 'too simple' - just maybe not what appeals to you.

Puma said simple i carried the theme , simple is relative to the more complex linesource multi tweeter setups ..

Simple is good , but not too simple ...! :)

[dznutz]

I’m happy to see the M9’s in the wild!

I don't think the Manufacturers private listening room qualifies as "in the wild"

[dznutz]

I’m happy to see the M9’s in the wild!

I don't think the Manufacturers private listening room qualifies as "in the wild"

[Mike]

I don't think the Manufacturers private listening room qualifies as "in the wild"

Well before, all we’ve been getting is static pics, nothing showing them to scale next to racks and gear.


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[Mike]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200813/9dce8b62f241693f45f6168516d69780.jpg


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[Puma Cat]

Well before, all we’ve been getting is static pics, nothing showing them to scale next to racks and gear.


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Last time I checked, any stills photograph is a "static" pic. But, I fully agree, Mike, that photographs that convey their scale and dimensions are important as part of the advertising portfolio of images. Some professional-quality lifestyle photographs would go a long way here...

[Puma Cat]

Another duplicate post....sorry, gang. The website gremlins are acting up again.

[Dizzie]

Some professional-quality lifestyle photographs would go a long way here...

That would depend upon whose lifestyle. Certainly not mine.:S

[Mike]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200814/8e8351246839d83d6b39dfbf370816ae.jpg


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[u-sound]

considering one direction sarasota?

[Mike]

considering one direction sarasota?

I wish! I’ll buy my seriously interested customers a first class ticket to the factory to audition them. [emoji6]

Of course, Magico could do what MBL did and give me a pair. [emoji4]

M9 road show!!!


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[u-sound]

credit is cheap currently if you change mind:)

[Mike]

credit is cheap currently if you change mind:)

I know, I know. Just imagine how good the M9 demo will be at the factory followed by a factory tour.


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[u-sound]

mr. wolf could offer a pair to the most sucsessful magico dealer of 2020

[Mike]

mr. wolf could offer a pair to the most sucsessful magico dealer of 2020

Ha! I’m game.


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[BlueFox]

mr. wolf could offer a pair to the most sucsessful magico dealer of 2020

That is quite a bodacious bonus.

[Dizzie]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200814/8e8351246839d83d6b39dfbf370816ae.jpg


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Cool! They are wireless.:what:

[metaphacts]

Ha! I’m game.


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Adding an additional valid product in this range adds to the credibility of those already there. Best of success Mike. We all win with this introduction.

[Mike]

Adding an additional valid product in this range adds to the credibility of those already there. Best of success Mike. We all win with this introduction.

Thanks Bill. It’s certainly rarified air at this level, but since selling an entire MBL XTreme Reference system in December, I know it’s possible. I believe one U.S. dealer has already sold a pair of M9’s and full kudos to him. That’s awesome. I’ve also seen a lot of WAMM installs (Andrew’s setup looks great. I love how his room treatments are all hidden) so there’s definitely opportunities out there at that level.

[Phishphan]

Crazy to think some people can afford these. I paid just slightly more for my house.


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[the professor]

Nice House

[bernardl]

Crazy to think some people can afford these. I paid just slightly more for my house.


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I am just trying to figure out how much cash I would need to have to prioritize the purchase of an M9 over the very long list of things I would rather do with this amount (starting with buying a very very nice sail boat). ;)

But great for those who have reached that level of wealth and are comfortable enough with it to display it through the ownership of such speakers.

Cheers,
Bernard

[steve59]

Since you just stated you don't know squat about Magico or their design goals, why would you state that the M9 doesn't look like an evolution of previous products?

Cause this product doesn't really have the same shape as the rest of the products I've seen?

[mep]

Cause this product doesn't really have the same shape as the rest of the products I've seen?

What does shape have to do with the evolution of a product line?

[steve59]

Does this product offer trickle down tech? Is it a statement of current tech? Either way it takes balls to step into the heavyweight ring and put it all out there.

[u-sound]

the other question is what is the m9 about. is it only more and better (probably words nr1) bass?

[PeterA]

I am just trying to figure out how much cash I would need to have to prioritize the purchase of an M9 over the very long list of things I would rather do with this amount (starting with buying a very very nice sail boat). ;)

But great for those who have reached that level of wealth and are comfortable enough with it to display it through the ownership of such speakers.

Cheers,
Bernard

I like the way you think.

I can not afford a speaker like the Magico M9, though I would love to own the M3. In Tokyo perhaps even the M2. I do have the Q3s and think they are wonderful speakers. I also have a very nice sailboat, though it would be a different story in Tokyo where I lived in 1990. I can tell you that the real cost of a nice sailboat is not in the initial purchase price, but rather in the ownership costs including maintenance, new sails, and storage during the off season. It also goes way up if you want to race. It is a continuous expense ending only when the boat is sold. Audio, for the most part is not about ongoing costs, unless one is talking about expensive cartridges, but about the initial purchase price and then the depreciation. IMO, these are very different ways to spend money. I know many people with nice systems and it is not about displaying a level of wealth to others. Their systems are mostly for their own enjoyment in dedicated listening rooms with few visitors, though there are surely exceptions. I suspect the mighty M9 will make a lasting impression on all who are lucky enough to see and hear the speaker.

[Alpinist]

the other question is what is the m9 about. is it only more and better (probably words nr1) bass?

To start with, improved speaker cones, crossovers and cabinet.

Ken

[NorthStar]

I love my wife, she's the best cook/chef.
If the M9 can cook like her ...

[u-sound]

To start with, improved speaker cones, crossovers and cabinet.

Ken

you are right. i am just surprised we dont see a big array of multiple mid drivers.
as for the cabinet, i would love to see the internal structure. the change to aluminium honeycombs alone isnt doing much. so it would be interesting where they placed the formers etc and the structural concept as a whole.
dont get me wrong, i am not questining the m9.....would love to put a pair in my garden

[Alpinist]

you are right. i am just surprised we dont see a big array of multiple mid drivers.
as for the cabinet, i would love to see the internal structure. the change to aluminium honeycombs alone isnt doing much. so it would be interesting where they placed the formers etc and the structural concept as a whole.
dont get me wrong, i am not questining the m9.....would love to put a pair in my garden

These are fair points. In high powered big scaling speakers, two midrange drivers would be appropriate. The aluminum honeycomb cabinet sidewalls give equal strength with less weight and cost then solid carbon fiber sidewalls, but that would not necessarily sound better.

The biggest improvement in these loudspeakers is moving from rohacell to a much stiffer aluminum honeycomb in the speaker cone core and the development of a more advanced active crossover. There are other improvements such as in the voice coils and in the internal cabinet design to reduce diffraction.

Ken

[bernardl]

I like the way you think.

I can not afford a speaker like the Magico M9, though I would love to own the M3. In Tokyo perhaps even the M2. I do have the Q3s and think they are wonderful speakers. I also have a very nice sailboat, though it would be a different story in Tokyo where I lived in 1990. I can tell you that the real cost of a nice sailboat is not in the initial purchase price, but rather in the ownership costs including maintenance, new sails, and storage during the off season. It also goes way up if you want to race. It is a continuous expense ending only when the boat is sold. Audio, for the most part is not about ongoing costs, unless one is talking about expensive cartridges, but about the initial purchase price and then the depreciation. IMO, these are very different ways to spend money. I know many people with nice systems and it is not about displaying a level of wealth to others. Their systems are mostly for their own enjoyment in dedicated listening rooms with few visitors, though there are surely exceptions. I suspect the mighty M9 will make a lasting impression on all who are lucky enough to see and hear the speaker.

Hi Peter,

Thanks.

Fully agree. I do a tiny bit of sailing myself and have so far resisted the urge of buying a boat out of the concern that I may serve it more than it serves me (including running costs). Day or week rental has so far proven to be a decent solution. But there is nonethless a list of vessels I would love to be able to really get to know well some day through extended usage that can only come from ownership. We will see. :)

My comment about displaying wealth wasn’t about the intent of the owner. I am aware that being able to afford such speakers comes with a financial maturity that typically comes with a level of personnel development that results in money being looked at differently. But, and that’s the connection with these speakers, they do the talking for you and that can only not be troublesome in some very privileged spheres where the visitors won’t mind.

To me there is a clear line btwn a 50,000-100,000 US$ system that, albeit expensive, is a matter of priorities for many people (vs buying a more or less expensive car for example) fortunate enough to live in developped countries, and multi million US$ systems such as those including M9s.

Not sure if I am managing to make myself understood. ;)

Btw, our path may have crossed since I have been in Tokyo since 1997.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Mike]

M9 — Magico Loudspeakers (https://www.magicoaudio.com/m9home?fbclid=IwAR13ikM-0RXDO35gdlBLyWmbbyC67JOIVpQ5vl_BsgNNId05mqim6lvEam k)

[Phishphan]

When I win the lottery, I'll put it on my list of things to buy. Short of that, I'll never be wealthy enough to afford them.


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[still-one]

I hope to be able to hear them one day. The design and specs look impressive. Unfortunately another speaker that I would never be comfortable writing a check for. I am glad there are those capable of making that kind of purchase without trepidation.

[steve59]

I think the tax on those is probably around my spending limit for speakers.

[BlueFox]

My living room floor is wood on concrete, and the house sits on the ground (no basement). At 1000 pounds per speaker I would be scared to have them in the house, no matter how they sound.

[Bobvin]

Hey, did you all see this:

A Long Time Coming: A Sneak Preview of Magico’s Magnificent M9 - The Absolute Sound (https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-long-time-coming-a-sneak-preview-of-magicos-magnificent-m9)

I just booked a flight to visit with Alon and hear his masterpieces on the 29th of this month. I'm trying not to drool the whole time between now and then.

And hear all that glorious new Pilium gear too! This is going to be fun...

[Bobvin]

What can you tell from youtube videos... not much IMHO. That doesn’t mean they can’t be fun!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j4oNQV2eVQ&t=28s

Taiko Extreme, MSB Select II, Pilium Alexander pre-, Magico MXO crossover, 2 pairs Pilium Hercules monos, Magico M9

[GSOphile]

Does this product offer trickle down tech? Is it a statement of current tech? Either way it takes balls to step into the heavyweight ring and put it all out there.

R.e. trickle down tech, the answer is 'yes' - the Magico A5's mid-range and bass drivers have the aluminum honeycomb cores originally designed for the M9s.

[Kuoppis]

Maybe a little more choice and a bit better music for a proper impression (more than an hour altogether).

MAGICO M9 SPEAKERS FIRST REAL WORLD - YouTube (https://youtu.be/W-gqRYZzhNQ)


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[Mike]

Maybe a little more choice and a bit better music for a proper impression (more than an hour altogether).

MAGICO M9 SPEAKERS FIRST REAL WORLD - YouTube (https://youtu.be/W-gqRYZzhNQ)


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Apparently the CH video floating around is a fake video!!

Can’t wait to hear these in person. The specs, the design is just mind blowing and total state of the art. 1000 pounds of sheer amazement!


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[Bobvin]

If only it were easy to listen to both brands of electronics side by side. I have not heard CH Precision, nor Pilium at this point, but I expect there is something Alon is hearing that he has chosen to have the first industry write-ups and auditions using the Pilium gear.

I am thrilled that I’ll have the opportunity to listen in just a few days. My last real listen with Magico speakers were S5 mkII, if my memory serves me correctly. And my last hearing of anything in this category was Wilson WAMM with Dagostino.

The key, for me, is will I be drawn into the music, or will it simply sound amazing without an emotional connection? I hope the for the latter.

[Kuoppis]

If only it were easy to listen to both brands of electronics side by side. I have not heard CH Precision, nor Pilium at this point, but I expect there is something Alon is hearing that he has chosen to have the first industry write-ups and auditions using the Pilium gear.

I am thrilled that I’ll have the opportunity to listen in just a few days. My last real listen with Magico speakers were S5 mkII, if my memory serves me correctly. And my last hearing of anything in this category was Wilson WAMM with Dagostino.

The key, for me, is will I be drawn into the music, or will it simply sound amazing without an emotional connection? I hope the for the latter.

Please share your impressions Bob, and report back on the amps. They were new to me, I think the company was only set up in 2012 AFAIK.

Video would be good [emoji41].


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[Bobvin]

https://www.purewatersystems.com/personal/images/m9m6.jpg

Thinking of the WAR song "Me & Baby Brother"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa-87PfFT4A

[Bobvin]

Thought I had posted something, I guess I forgot to hit the button... headed to Magico today to visit Alon and hear the M9s with Taiko Extreme server, MSB Select II, Pilium Alexander pre-amp, and two pair Pilium Hercules monos.

Report forthcoming.

[brodricj]

Ask him "what's next?"

[Bobvin]

Holy Shit! More details to follow I am just at the airport but let me tell you that was f’n AMAZING!

[Ritmo]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Bobvin]

Alright, I'm not trying to be a tease, just have a crazy day today. I will, however, say the M9s driven by the Pilium electronics ought to be considered a redefinition of what is possible in reproducing recorded music. From the first few notes it was apparent this was an exceptionally special system. Compared to what I heard of the WAMMs it was much more musical.


I will say, however, the room I heard the WAMMs in was nothing like hearing Alon's listening room. And the WAMM were powered by Dagostino which I've heard many, many times. The Dag gear and I have never really "got" each other. Like dating that hot chick where you really wanted it to click, but you just never quite had good energy together. That is NOT going to be a problem with the Pilium gear. We get each other just fine. I am very, very, very excited and looking forward to turning people on to the Pilium electronics. I am confident once people hear it they will agree—there is something special going on for SS electronics, there is some sense of liquidity and flow that gets you closer to the music, immediately.


Did I mention the M9s are simply F'n AMAZING. Oh what a joy it would be to be able to afford such a speaker. Everything changes after hearing those.


Both my travelling buddy and I noticed, upon entering Alon's room, there was a real similar feel to my own room. Alon's room probably a bit more lively than my own, it is also quite a bit larger, but feel of the room very similar. Bonnie Schnitta, of SoundSense who designed my room puts a premium on not only great sound but wants to create a room that "feels" good. It was a nice bit of confirmation picking up the same gestalt in Alon's space.


More to come...

[u-sound]

very cool bob, that sound thrilling! keep enjoying it.
quiet an impressive point to join the business:)

[Mike]

Awesome Bob. The design and technology in the M9 is just out of this world. Thanks for sharing your impressions! I can’t wait to hear them myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bobvin]

Mike, you are going to be blown away!

As good as the M9s are, it was a real pleasure meeting Alon and getting some insight into his design philosophy, why he does some things he does, and seeing the manufacturing facilities. To say Alon is a fanatic for getting things right, for measuring, listening, measuring and continuously pushing the state of the art would be understatement. He is clearly driven to build what he considers the very finest product that he can. As a businessman I really understand and respect all that is involved.

And for anyone who poo-poohs the Magico brand... go visit the facilities and you will have a new appreciation. It is not uncommon to hear someone complain that a speaker costs way too much, because the parts cost is only "X", there's no way that speaker is worth "Y". First, that person has zero understanding of running a business. More importantly after visiting they would see that their understanding of what goes into a Magico speaker has probably not been accurate.

I say Bravo! to Alon. Keep pushing the boundaries of what is possible. Good on you!

[Ritmo]

Bob - Thanks for sharing the story of your visit. The M9s look impressive. Hope they are demoed in one of the big shows next year.

[the professor]

Sounds like a great trip.

[the professor]

But be careful

Last time I was there I ended up spending way too much money in the year or two afterwards with things I heard there.

LOL

[Bobvin]

Bob - Thanks for sharing the story of your visit. The M9s look impressive. Hope they are demoed in one of the big shows next year.

Well, there are always the Magico facilities in Hayward. Out of respect for Mike and competing interests I will just say there will be a couple other locations M9s can be heard.

Also, lets not forget... Suncoast appears to be thriving, perhaps Mike will take the plunge and have some M9s in his store! You would probably find him there 24/7, red-eyed from all night listening sessions. :P

[brodricj]

I'm still not convinced if the M9 begets the eye-candy beauty of M2/3, it's sort of the ugly duckling of the siblings. I'm just not warming to "the look" as I do with M2/3. But not having seen it in the flesh is hard to come to an informed opinion on that.

[brodricj]

Also, lets not forget... Suncoast appears to be thriving, perhaps Mike will take the plunge and have some M9s in his store! You would probably find him there 24/7, red-eyed from all night listening sessions. :P

Excellent! Mike can take up residence in the store with his M9's, and I'll take up residence at Mike's place in his absence. There is enough Esoteric stuff at his place to keep me happy! But before closing the deal on the new living arrangements, can Mike get the D1X in the house?

[Bobvin]

I'm still not convinced if the M9 begets the eye-candy beauty of M2/3, it's sort of the ugly duckling of the siblings. I'm just not warming to "the look" as I do with M2/3. But not having seen it in the flesh is hard to come to an informed opinion on that.

M9s are BIG. And in black are quite imposing. I’ll post a picture later of me standing next to one. I’m 6’2”, 205#. The M9 is taller than I am, and 1000lbs. I’m not sure anyone is buying them for the looks, though some will love the look, I’m a bit ambivalent. You buy M9s when you have the $$ and love the sound. There might be an instance or two where somebody buys them for bragging rights or to show off to their wealthy friends, but I’d say its all about the sound, which is SPECTACULAR!

[Bobvin]

I was in California and out of respect for Alon and all his crew, the "mask of fear" "face diaper" had to be worn. (I've had my first dose of Moderna, waiting for the second.)

https://www.purewatersystems.com/personal/images/BobVandM9.jpg

[Kuoppis]

I was in California and out of respect for Alon and all his crew, the "mask of fear" "face diaper" had to be worn. (I've had my first dose of Moderna, waiting for the second.)

https://www.purewatersystems.com/personal/images/BobVandM9.jpg

Bob, you do look tiny [emoji3].


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kuoppis]

M9s are BIG. And in black are quite imposing. I’ll post a picture later of me standing next to one. I’m 6’2”, 205#. The M9 is taller than I am, and 1000lbs. I’m not sure anyone is buying them for the looks, though some will love the look, I’m a bit ambivalent. You buy M9s when you have the $$ and love the sound. There might be an instance or two where somebody buys them for bragging rights or to show off to their wealthy friends, but I’d say its all about the sound, which is SPECTACULAR!

To me the M9’s look a bit like a slightly flat-footed design accident, an acquired taste to say the least. Maybe somewhat of an Estelon type, yet without similar gracefulness. And unfortunately not much left of the elegance of their smaller M series brethren. This is one of the few designs where you can actually argue, whether they look better or worse than the Ultimate IIIs. On that level, I think the Ultimates are even more extravagant [emoji3].

But to be honest, they’re a tour de force. Their sheer size, the truck wheel size woofers, 1000 lbs weight and so on are just impressive. I think that’s what people would buy them for.

And it’s unnecessary to lament how they would look in anyone’s living room, because they won’t. And for a dedicated listening space of crazy people they’re pretty much ok.


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[Bobvin]

Jeff Fritz of SoundStage listened to the M9s, his report at:

SoundStage! Global | SoundStageGlobal.com - Magico M9 Loudspeakers: No Compromises Allowed (https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/961)

[a.wayne]

:popcorn:


SoundStage! Global | SoundStageGlobal.com - Magico M9 Loudspeakers: No Compromises Allowed (https://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/blogging-on-audio/961)

[MDP]

I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!

[puroagave]

I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!

How do you know? the initial production run is sold out, I'm aware of two soon to be M9s owners and they were thrilled they made the list. They are hardly the type that need to impress anyone. So whatever your arbitrary threshold is for value you have been proven wrong.

[Bobvin]

Well, you have to always consider the costs of R&D, prototypes, failures, starting again, more R&D, customized everything which runs up costs because things are not mass produced but instead done on smaller scale, and mostly by hand (labor costs, employment taxes). Then there is marketing and distribution, along with final sales margins. And in the case of Magico, the $300k Kleppil measuring machine.

Do you think, for example, a new RAM pickup truck could be made, from scratch, for the money that is asked for it? The high costs of R&D are spread over mass production. That won’t happen with small production manufacturing.

Luxury items demand luxury prices, for a reason. Thanks God there are people who buy these things for the sake of all involved (i.e. they get have jobs, pay their mortgage, put a new roof on the house, pay for the kids braces — have a happy prosperous life).

Plus, trickle down is a real benefit, take the A5 for example with the new midrange driver.

Would you prefer a world of “average” everything, or do you enjoy that people follow their passions to create the very best of what they do? I admire those folks myself.

I’ve been to hear the M9s, and was far more impressed than hearing the Wilson WAMMs.

All that said, I do get what you’re saying. Crazy expensive speakers. But, better than anything I’ve heard (though my sample set is not huge.)

[Ritmo]

I'm sure what I'm going to say won't be received well by some......But, seeing a speaker priced this high makes me a little sick. There is absolutely no technology or parts that would make this thing worth the money.

Now if you have the kind of cash that this purchase takes and you want to impress people, I'm sure you could come up with something better to spend it on than these things.

I know I'm guilty of paying more than something's worth also.........but damn!

Couldn’t agree with you more Mark. I myself own a six figure system and so I cannot be exempted from spending a lot of money in stereo gear. But, when it comes to ultra pricey gear, like the Magico M9 or Wilson Wamm or…, glad there’s a market but I’m not biting.

This argument has been discussed in other threads before. There is just no way to justify the asking price for a cabinet with 6, 7, X number of drivers at these ridiculous high 6 figures. Now, if they can sell them, good for them.

[nicoff]

One would think that when doing the R&D into the speaker, the manufacturer determined the best speaker cable for this speaker and is including it with the price. [emoji33]

[steve59]

So a 600k speaker gives the shop a 300k payday, lol It really is hard to wrap my head around. I appreciate how much bs people in sales have to eat, then again maybe I don’t. I’m happy there’s rich folk that can buy all the cool stuff they get sick of in a year and sell to me for peanuts, but how much R&D actually goes into these products that’s new tech? Sound reproduction is old science and a true breakthrough in high quality stereo would be to make it more affordable not less.

Not a knock on magico specifically.

[a.wayne]

While not trying to justify asking prices ,


It takes a solid year to develop a complex system like this past phase 1 and another year getting past pre production bugs for delivery , sales numbers are small so noway to offset development cost as you will never reach critical mass numbers to Justify so consider all these SOTA type endeavors as one off’s , prices will never equate or use normal marketing metrics ...


Regards ...

[exupgh12]

Bovin,

There are exotics care that are made of smaller batch than M9 that doesn't cost as much 9even M6 cost more than most luxuery cars).
With all the respect to Magico or any other speaker manufacture (I'm an own of S3MK2) no speaker has the development and production cost of a Mercedes class S or Porsche Panamera (M9 costing as much as several of those cars).
The same goes for lots of luxury goods that are sold today.

[a.wayne]

You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


Regards


:)

[Mikado463]

You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


Regards


:)

Not in this case, I'd say more like a Lange or a Patek.........:D

[Kingsrule]

You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


Regards


:)

Why?

[Bobvin]

Lets not forget a principle of the market that applies here, “charge what the market will bear.” If Magico can sell all they can make at $750k, then some folks out there feel they are worth the $$. Well outside my price range, but lots of things are. Cost, benefit, value are something we all measure our own ways. I’m fine with that.

The M9s are, quite simply, spectacular! I’m not in the market for such a high price speaker, so I spend no mental cycles on cost benefit analysis. Let the uber-wealthy decide what works for them.

Maybe some lucky audiophile will pick up a pair at an estate sale where the surviving spouse sells them for what she was told they cost!

[exupgh12]

You have to compare audio cost and development to a new top model Rolex watch cost and development , not exotic cars ..!


Regards


:)

Better compare would be to a Richard Mille watch (at least in technical and material complexity) ;)

[Jim Smith]

So a 600k speaker gives the shop a 300k payday, lol It really is hard to wrap my head around. I appreciate how much bs people in sales have to eat, then again maybe I don’t. I’m happy there’s rich folk that can buy all the cool stuff they get sick of in a year and sell to me for peanuts, but how much R&D actually goes into these products that’s new tech? Sound reproduction is old science and a true breakthrough in high quality stereo would be to make it more affordable not less.

Not a knock on magico specifically.

From various industry reports that I have received, Magico does not even give their dealers the historical industry minimum 40% margin, & no products are at 50%...

[Bobvin]

I’ll just say this… if you have an opportunity to hear the M9s, do it. At the showroom even better.

I’d love to go back and spend a relaxed evening listening to my own references. Maybe I can tempt Alon with a stunning bottle of wine. I’d pay to make the trip again. My exposure was too brief, and I’m not a reviewer like Jeff Fritz above. But an opportunity to really spend some time, to relax and enjoy beyond the initial OMG, that would be a treat. Yep, they’re damn expensive but they set the bar for current state-of-the-art. Their funky looks are the first thing that becomes back of mind once the music starts to play. Then you have to get your chin off the floor, and grab a towel to wipe the drool off your cheeks.

I’m not sure Alon will approve my relating the following… he told of a very high valued fellow who was flying (via his private jet) anywhere and everywhere to hear the very best examples of speakers. When he stopped to hear the M9s he told his consigliere to stop setting up auditions and arranged on the spot to buy a pair of M9s. (Names withheld to protect the guilty.)

So for those who diss the high prices, the real question is… if you could, would you?

[exupgh12]

I’ll just say this… if you have an opportunity to hear the M9s, do it. At the showroom even better.

I’d love to go back and spend a relaxed evening listening to my own references. Maybe I can tempt Alon with a stunning bottle of wine. I’d pay to make the trip again. My exposure was too brief, and I’m not a reviewer like Jeff Fritz above. But an opportunity to really spend some time, to relax and enjoy beyond the initial OMG, that would be a treat. Yep, they’re damn expensive but they set the bar for current state-of-the-art. Their funky looks are the first thing that becomes back of mind once the music starts to play. Then you have to get your chin off the floor, and grab a towel to wipe the drool off your cheeks.

I’m not sure Alon will approve my relating the following… he told of a very high valued fellow who was flying (via his private jet) anywhere and everywhere to hear the very best examples of speakers. When he stopped to hear the M9s he told his consigliere to stop setting up auditions and arranged on the spot to buy a pair of M9s. (Names withheld to protect the guilty.)

So for those who diss the high prices, the real question is… if you could, would you?

Simple answer - no.
my old man can spare this amount of money but wouldn't consider spending 1/100 on audio. myself, i think my red line would be somewhere between $55,000 to $65,000 on speakers, and this already feel ridiculous sum for me to spend on audio.

[Dizzie]

Alright, I'm not trying to be a tease, just have a crazy day today. I will, however, say the M9s driven by the Pilium electronics ought to be considered a redefinition of what is possible in reproducing recorded music. From the first few notes it was apparent this was an exceptionally special system. Compared to what I heard of the WAMMs it was much more musical.


I will say, however, the room I heard the WAMMs in was nothing like hearing Alon's listening room. And the WAMM were powered by Dagostino which I've heard many, many times. The Dag gear and I have never really "got" each other. Like dating that hot chick where you really wanted it to click, but you just never quite had good energy together. That is NOT going to be a problem with the Pilium gear. We get each other just fine. I am very, very, very excited and looking forward to turning people on to the Pilium electronics. I am confident once people hear it they will agree—there is something special going on for SS electronics, there is some sense of liquidity and flow that gets you closer to the music, immediately.


Did I mention the M9s are simply F'n AMAZING. Oh what a joy it would be to be able to afford such a speaker. Everything changes after hearing those.


Both my travelling buddy and I noticed, upon entering Alon's room, there was a real similar feel to my own room. Alon's room probably a bit more lively than my own, it is also quite a bit larger, but feel of the room very similar. Bonnie Schnitta, of SoundSense who designed my room puts a premium on not only great sound but wants to create a room that "feels" good. It was a nice bit of confirmation picking up the same gestalt in Alon's space.


More to come...

Bob,

I am confused by your description of the room as being "lively". Was this the demo room at Magico? When Alon demonstrated speakers for me he commented on how the room was designed to not have reflections so he could evaluate the speaker performance directly. I do not remember what speaker model I heard but it was made with carbon fiber. I think it was the first offering.

What I remember about the experience was how strange it was to have no reflections. It was unnerving. Distinguishing between direct sounds and reflections is part of our evolution and survival.

Perhaps the listening room can be reconfigured by moving panels in and out.:dunno:

[LVB]

Bob,

I am confused by your description of the room as being "lively". Was this the demo room at Magico? When Alon demonstrated speakers for me he commented on how the room was designed to not have reflections so he could evaluate the speaker performance directly. I do not remember what speaker model I heard but it was made with carbon fiber. I think it was the first offering.

What I remember about the experience was how strange it was to have no reflections. It was unnerving. Distinguishing between direct sounds and reflections is part of our evolution and survival.

Perhaps the listening room can be reconfigured by moving panels in and out.:dunno:

I have been to the Magico listening room twice, sounded quite natural, but very quiet. The room is design to have minimum room gain, not minimum or no reflections. A room designed to completely absorb reflections would be an anechoic chamber, not a place you can actually do any listening in.

[a.wayne]

Simple answer - no.
my old man can spare this amount of money but wouldn't consider spending 1/100 on audio. myself, i think my red line would be somewhere between $55,000 to $65,000 on speakers, and this already feel ridiculous sum for me to spend on audio.

I dont get why others seem to have a problem how people spend their own cash, the price is irrelevant, the M9 is a statement product , does it make the statement or it doesn't, thats the only criteria necessary in my books ..



Regards ...

[u-sound]

i see the m9 more or less as a m6 with integrated subs.
it might take the sealed concept to perfect levels. would love to hear them.

[a.wayne]

i see the m9 more or less as a m6 with integrated subs.
it might take the sealed concept to perfect levels. would love to hear them.

Now this opens the discussion about the M9 much more than Magico pricing , the real strength here over their other models is the effortless way it goes about reproducing music, this mostly due to the tremendous Power offered by multiple amplification and the ease of low thd from large bass drivers ..

It still offers the same limitation of a single 6” mid and 1.1” tweeter as the other models ..


Regards

[Bobvin]

It still offers the same limitation of a single 6” mid and 1.1” tweeter as the other models ..

Regards

Exactly what I thought when I first saw them. All those big drivers and a wee-little tweeter and single 6" midrange. Then the music started playing... just a big seamless wall of music. If there are limitations (of course there probably are) they were not evident to me when listening. Tinkling bells on one track, seemingly coming from a balcony over the orchestra pit, they hovered three feet over the tops of the speakers. The tweeter probably 5 or 6 feet below the sound. Amazing.

[u-sound]

not really sure wich driver goes how low and high but it looks the 6"mid is supported by large low mid drivers.

[mdp632]

I'm glad products like the M9 exist

The trickle-down technology form these "flagship" speakers will be make their debut in more "accessible" products.

I'm guessing that the new S Mark 3 or Gen 3 line , will be a showcase of many technologies that made their debut in the M9.

[Bart001]

I'm in the camp of, "Why do people who spend money to acquire one level of luxury goods criticize those who market and those who buy a different level of luxury goods?"

People who are happy with using their phone to tell time wonder why anyone needs a Casio G-Shock. Casio G-Shock wearers wonder why anyone needs a Tudor. Tudor wearers wonder why anyone needs a Breitling. Breitling wearers wonder why anyone needs a Rolex. "Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera."

[Mike]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/c77e8b491ec589b35c0a105ba8270afb.jpg

First owner of M9’s in HK. SN001/002.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[steve59]

For some reason I don't think the typical M9 customers are the type to have to work overtime or pick up a couple side jobs whenever the upgrade itch comes along. Protecting that kind of money has to be a 24/7 job

[brodricj]

Hong Kong. Of Course. Radar sell more Magico speakers in Hong Kong than any other market in the world. Apparently they sold 7 pairs out of only 50 M-Project speakers built.

[BlueFox]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211107/c77e8b491ec589b35c0a105ba8270afb.jpg

First owner of M9’s in HK. SN001/002.


Needs some carpet.

[brodricj]

Needs some carpet.

It does. But carpet isn't a "thing" in Hong Kong, Macau or China. 99.999% of residences have ceramic tiled or timber parquetry floors. I don't ever recall seeing an apartment in any of those places with carpet. And I've lived in that part of the world for quite a few years.

[BlueFox]

It does. But carpet isn't a "thing" in Hong Kong, Macau or China. 99.999% of residences have ceramic tiled or timber parquetry floors. I don't ever recall seeing an apartment in any of those places with carpet. And I've lived in that part of the world for quite a few years.

Interesting. Learn something new everyday.

[mdp632]

It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.

[Mike Lavigne]

It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.

i think when you consider the intended customers for a WAMM or M9, you would unduly restrict the buyers with mandatory twin towers. either of those choices can be used in an elegant living space, not only in an all out dedicated hifi only room. especially the M9 can be viewed as art (much less so the WAMM), and single tower is the design ethos of Magico. it's their aesthetic approach. every model at all price points has that look and feel. their flagship needs to be the most "Magico"......Magico.

owning twin tower speakers no doubt i realize the advantages of perfect integration and the value performance wise of the additional driver surface of twin towers. at the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement. but i'm not a candidate for 3/4 of a million dollar speakers. so i don't have a vote.

[Henry303]

...

owning twin tower speakers no doubt i realize the advantages of perfect integration and the value performance wise of the additional driver surface of twin towers. at the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement. but i'm not a candidate for 3/4 of a million dollar speakers. so i don't have a vote.

Apples and oranges, most of the twin tower designs, including your MM7, are full range, typically a 3-way, in one tower, and subs in the other.
The Magico M9 (and the WAMM) are a 4-way loudspeaker. The bass drivers are doing much more than just covering the low bass. As such, not conducive to a separate enclosure. If needed, M9/WAMM owners can add as many subs as they want.

[Mike Lavigne]

Apples and oranges, most of the twin tower designs, including your MM7, are full range, typically a 3-way, in one tower, and subs in the other.
The Magico M9 (and the WAMM) are a 4-way loudspeaker. The bass drivers are doing much more than just covering the low bass. As such, not conducive to a separate enclosure. If needed, M9/WAMM owners can add as many subs as they want.

know ahead of time that i have much respect for both the M9 and WAMM, but that nothing is perfect. design compromises are part of any speaker.

Henry, are you claiming that integration of (X) amount of subs to an M9 or WAMM will be 'as integrated' as my MM7's are integrated? and you would know that how?

i don't personally know the process for adding OEM subwoofers to the M9 or WAMM; so the following is a guess as to how this might look. if i've missed it here then please set me right.

one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.

at the end of the day likely the integration of the M9 and WAMM and the full blown OEM sub approach is probably 'good enough' to pass muster. but.......if they started out as a twin tower speaker from the ground up no holds bared, no doubt they would be better even. and that is the point i am making. "integrated" comes by degrees. and fully means fully.

[Henry303]

know ahead of time that i have much respect for both the M9 and WAMM, but that nothing is perfect. design compromises are part of any speaker.

Henry, are you claiming that integration of (X) amount of subs to an M9 or WAMM will be 'as integrated' as my MM7's are integrated? and you would know that how?

i don't personally know the process for adding OEM subwoofers to the M9 or WAMM; so the following is a guess as to how this might look. if i've missed it here then please set me right.

one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.

at the end of the day likely the integration of the M9 and WAMM and the full blown OEM sub approach is probably 'good enough' to pass muster. but.......if they started out as a twin tower speaker from the ground up no holds bared, no doubt they would be better even. and that is the point i am making. "integrated" comes by degrees. and fully means fully.

That extra column of yours is just a sub, no need to make of it more than it is. The M9, from what I hear, does not even need a sub (I personally never heard a sub I liked). BTW, the 15"s on the M9 are going up into the mid 100's; you can do the math in terms of actual displacement. Add the superiority of the drivers, enclosure, and the fact that it is all actively XO (analog), I think it would be safe to say the M9 owners have not much to worry about :lol:

I am sure your speakers are amazing, I just don't see why you would insist of showing 'superiority' when heavy hitters like Wilson and Magico are concerned. It is all good, I can't afford a Ferrari either, that does not mean that my very good MB is better, although it has more cargo space. Like you said, nothing is perfect :D

[Mike Lavigne]

That extra column of yours is just a sub, no need to make of it more than it is. The M9, from what I hear, does not even need a sub (I personally never heard a sub I liked). BTW, the 15"s on the M9 are going up into the mid 100's; you can do the math in terms of actual displacement. Add the superiority of the drivers, enclosure, and the fact that it is all actively XO (analog), I think it would be safe to say the M9 owners have not much to worry about :lol:

i do not necessarily agree with any technical superiority of the M9 over my speakers, but you could be right about that and it could be the case. would even agree that most readers would agree with you about that. never been in love with a Magico system, but also never heard a mature system with Magico's......so my mind is open. as far as my sub towers as being 'just a sub' you obviously ignored the finer points of what i wrote and just made up your mind. so why bother to even engage with you?


I am sure your speakers are amazing, I just don't see why you would insist of showing 'superiority' when heavy hitters like Wilson and Magico are concerned. It is all good, I can't afford a Ferrari either, that does not mean that my very good MB is better, although it has more cargo space. Like you said, nothing is perfect :D

i was only responding to mdp632's post (below......you read that? right? or just read my response without the context of what i responded to) about the decision by Mr. Wolf to be single tower a side verses twin towers. as a twin tower owner i fully appreciate that attribute so felt qualified to chime in. the subject of twin towers is a big one for me, understand the benefits, and i have strong opinions about it.


It will be interesting to read ( I hope) a future interview with Mr. Wolf regarding the design of the M9.

Specifically, the decision to go for a two tower flagship rather the 4 column super-speakers that others use in their flagships.

I'm speculating that given the sealed cabinet plus extreme LF driver design of the M9s, adding two bass towers was a moot point.

as far as feelings of 'superiority', i never said that at all. the case i made was about the advantages of twin towers properly executed over single towers. i stepped through where the twin tower approach does bring much to the table.

as far as how my speakers might stack up to the M9; i would say that the system and room and set-up person around each speaker would be a larger factor than the differences between the speakers. plunk the M9 in any old room with the typical M9 pairing solid state amp and i would likely prefer what i hear in my room to that. just my amps alone would play a big part in the differences. OTOH put the M9 in my room with my signal path and 6 months to fine tune it and likely the M9 has a higher ceiling. how much higher ceiling? i don't know but i do respect it as likely more capable. if i heard the M9 i could comment further. maybe i would not like it? or maybe i would be head over heels for it? i'm sure it's amazing. so are my MM7's. $$$'s and new and shiny are not the final arbiter. Magico Nation is not always objective.

please view my posts here as twin tower verses single tower, and not my speakers verses the M9.

[mep]

i do not necessarily agree with any technical superiority of the M9 over my speakers, but you could be right about that and it could be the case. would even agree that most readers would agree with you about that. never been in love with a Magico system, but also never heard a mature system with Magico's......so my mind is open. as far as my sub towers as being 'just a sub' you obviously ignored the finer points of what i wrote and just made up your mind. so why bother to even engage with you?



i was only responding to mdp632's post (below......you read that? right? or just read my response without the context of what i responded to) about the decision by Mr. Wolf to be single tower a side verses twin towers. as a twin tower owner i fully appreciate that attribute so felt qualified to chime in. the subject of twin towers is a big one for me, understand the benefits, and i have strong opinions about it.



as far as feelings of 'superiority', i never said that at all. the case i made was about the advantages of twin towers properly executed over single towers. i stepped through where the twin tower approach does bring much to the table.

as far as how my speakers might stack up to the M9; i would say that the system and room and set-up person around each speaker would be a larger factor than the differences between the speakers. plunk the M9 in any old room with the typical M9 pairing solid state amp and i would likely prefer what i hear in my room to that. just my amps alone would play a big part in the differences. OTOH put the M9 in my room with my signal path and 6 months to fine tune it and likely the M9 has a higher ceiling. how much higher ceiling? i don't know but i do respect it as likely more capable. if i heard the M9 i could comment further. maybe i would not like it? or maybe i would be head over heels for it? i'm sure it's amazing. so are my MM7's. $$$'s and new and shiny are not the final arbiter. Magico Nation is not always objective.

please view my posts here as twin tower verses single tower, and not my speakers verses the M9.

You already made it all about your speakers vs. the M9.


one advantage my MM7's have over either the M9 or WAMM is lot's more driver surface in the mid-bass, and more efficient to boot than either of those so an easier load for an amp. my MM7's have '4' 11" woofers per side covering from 40hz to 250hz. that can be done since the bottom octave is covered by the active subwoofer tower. and i have zero crossover in the mid-bass which is the power range of lots of music. my passive tower cannot be used as a stand alone speaker, as it's rolled off to perfectly integrate with the sub tower. OTOH with the M9 or WAMM you are having to somehow throttle the main speaker back to avoid doubling frequencies in the bottom octave. not exactly a fully integrated ground up approach. then there is the coherent wave launch issue. the MM7's use a first order crossover and are phase and time aligned. i have my towers equa-distant from my ears.

then there is the amplifier coherence issue. the MM7 sub towers take their signal from the speaker cable input to the passive towers, so they get the signature of the main amps into the sub input, keeping things 'of a piece'. the M9 or WAMM will typically use a different amp with the M9 or WAMM than the sub's. and the subs will not get their signal from the speaker cable terminal; it will come from an outboard crossover.

all the added subs in the world won't solve the integration issue. would anyone notice the integration limitations of adding subs to a full range M9 or WAMM; maybe not unless they directly compared it to my MM7's.

[brodricj]

An interesting video.

Magico M9 CF monocoque - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Phq8LP5LFrY)

[Mike]

?????MAGICO M9 ??+???? Installation of the World's first pair of Magico M9 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/0g3KqHS1H8Q)


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[nc42acc]

Mike do you have that many helpers?


?????MAGICO M9 ??+???? Installation of the World's first pair of Magico M9 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/0g3KqHS1H8Q)


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[brodricj]

To be clear. That is not a customer installation. It's the Radar Audio Causeway Bay show room.

[Mike]

Mike do you have that many helpers?

Well, I had a crew of 11 for the MBL XTreme install.


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[nc42acc]

But did they all have Suncoast Audio backpacks? Have you had any calls on a possible M9 sale?



Well, I had a crew of 11 for the MBL XTreme install.


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[Mike]

But did they all have Suncoast Audio backpacks? Have you had any calls on a possible M9 sale?

We prefer Dora The Explorer lunch pails.

Yes, some calls on the M9’s.


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[Mike]

To be clear. That is not a customer installation. It's the Radar Audio Causeway Bay show room.

This is not correct. This is a customer installation in Hong Kong.


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[nc42acc]

I would think you would need a dedicated room if you were going to have a demo pair as a dealer? Does Magico have a pair set up at the factory?



We prefer Dora The Explorer lunch pails.

Yes, some calls on the M9’s.


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[Bobvin]

Yes, M9 are in the Magico showroom. Easy to schedule a visit. I’d have a pair if they weren’t 1000lbs each. No easy way to scootch those down the hallway like I do now with which-ever pair I don’t have setup. A dedicated room needed for sure, not necessarily a fully acoustically treated room, but once these are in-place they won’t be moved around with ease.

[brodricj]

This is not correct.


I recognize that street facade. From what I can see it's the World Trade Centre in Causeway Bay, which is where Radar has their main show room. Unless the customer also lives in that building, which would be a surprise as its a commercial shopping/office premises.

[Mike]

I recognize that street facade. From what I can see it's the World Trade Centre in Causeway Bay, which is where Radar has their main show room. Unless the customer also lives in that building, which would be a surprise as its a commercial shopping/office premises.

It’s his personal premises.


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[Adyc]

I recognize that street facade. From what I can see it's the World Trade Centre in Causeway Bay, which is where Radar has their main show room. Unless the customer also lives in that building, which would be a surprise as its a commercial shopping/office premises.

No, it is not in Causeway Bay. It is in in Central. The owner has a dedicated room in one of the office buildings in Central. It is not Radar’s showroom. It is customer’s Hi-Fi room. I have visited this room before.

[brodricj]

The M9 room in the video is not one of their public show rooms which lead me to assume they have rented another space in that building especially for these speakers.

[Adyc]

The owner has never settled one speaker for long. He had Rockport Lyra, Steinheim Ultimate, Kharma Veyron, Wilson XVX and many more in this room. Not too sure how long he will keep M9.

[brodricj]

..The owner has a dedicated room in one of the office buildings in Central. ...

OK, that fits the picture. It's a personal office space in Central. Uber rich Hong Kong guys tend not to live in those buildings.

[Adyc]

OK, that fits the picture. It's a personal office space in Central. Uber rich Hong Kong guys tend not to live in those buildings.

I think his home is only 10-15 minutes from this room by car. Not very far away.

[brodricj]

.. Not too sure how long he will keep M9.

M9 is pocket money in the Hong Kong audiophile stratosphere. I used to work for one of the top 10 richest guys in Hong Kong. His personal fortune was $4 billion USD, although I'm sure that number was under quoted.

[Bobvin]

For some reason this morning I couldn't find the Magico forum, so I posted in the general speaker forum. Maybe it was a glitch with my iPad, or I had not had enough coffee.

Robert Harley spent 2 days visiting the new Magico showroom to listen to the M9's. When I visited last spring, I was blown away by what I heard, and I felt for sure the M9 reviews would do a much better job describing the sound than I ever could. I just didn't think the damn Covid would mean a quality review would be a year out. Finally, you can read about them below.

This on the Absolute Sound website: Magico Swings for the Fences: The M9 Loudspeaker - The Absolute Sound (https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-swings-for-the-fences-the-m9-loudspeaker)

(pssst... amplification is Pilium, when I was there the source was MSB Select DAC. And when I visited I was in the old soundroom, before the latest remodel.)