Magico and class D amp

[pdxaudio]

I’m planning on getting a pair of the new Magico A5s and I’m researching some integrated systems to drive them. I would like to get something that runs cool and has a small footprint so I started looking into class D amplification. Would something like the upcoming NAD M33 drive them sufficiently or do I need more/different power?

The budget is around $10k but could go a bit higher for the right system. Also my preference is a black component over silver and would like it to be an all in one system that is Roon ready. I’m open to any other suggestions in class D or otherwise.

Thanks

[Jack]

Audio Advisor is a NAD dealer and carries the current M32 so if they eventually carry the M33 then you will have the 30 day trial period. Also Crutchfield and Music Direct both also with trial periods.

[Calvin]

Congrats on your upcoming A5s. Magico are great speakers.

For a little more you could go with Pass Labs INT-250. Pass and Magico seem to be meant for one another.

[pdxaudio]

Audio Advisor is a NAD dealer and carries the current M32 so if they eventually carry the M33 then you will have the 30 day trial period. Also Crutchfield and Music Direct both also with trial periods.

Thanks, I forgot about the home trials that are available at all those retailers. I will definitely look at those.

[pdxaudio]

Congrats on your upcoming A5s. Magico are great speakers.

For a little more you could go with Pass Labs INT-250. Pass and Magico seem to be meant for one another.

Thanks, I actually have an INT-60 with another system that I will test with A5s at some point but I’m hoping to find something smaller, lighter and cooler that can run all day without heating up the whole house :cool:

[imprezap2]

I have used the Aavik U-300 (now replaced by U-380) to power Magico V3's. (600 watt per channel @ 4 Ohm, 2 Ohm stabil), this amp is running very cool.
For less money Aavik also has the U-150, (same power output as the U-300/380)

[Calvin]

I must admit the Pass "hot" comment is surprising. I was VERY concerned about this as a possible issue before I purchased my Pass. And living in FL (no winters to speak of ...), I researched the issue a lot - I called Pass and I spoke to other owners for months prior to purchase.

I run my 260.8s all day long (12-18 hours per day) and heat is not an issue. While mine do get warm they never get hot - and definitely don't heat the entire house. If they did I definitely wouldn't be considering a Magico M3 and Pass X600.8 combo.

This said, the size of the room is important. My present Pass/Magico combo are in a medium sized room, so if you have a small room, then the felt effect would be different. But even my friend's Class A Audio Research Reference 160Ms don't get hot and his room is smaller than mine - and sounds amazing.

This said, a Pass Class A/B amp would normally run warmer than a Class D amp, but not hot. Mike sells a lot of Pass INTs. Perhaps he can pipe in here.

While the Magico A3s are absolutely amazing, I wish I had a set of A5's while I try to decide on whether I get a set of M3s or not. Based upon my experience with the A3s, I think you will be well-pleased with the A5s.

Enjoy the journey.



Thanks, I actually have an INT-60 with another system that I will test with A5s at some point but I’m hoping to find something smaller, lighter and cooler that can run all day without heating up the whole house :cool:

[Mike]

The INT-60, like the 260.8’s don’t really heat up the house/room. They certainly produce more heat than a standard A/B amp or most certainly a class D amp, but nothing like the bigger amps from Pass (XA160.8 and up).

My customer with XS300’s has a dedicated AC unit for his listening room and just had to install returns directly above the amps to keep the air circulating. Now those amps can heat up some rooms!

It wouldn’t bother me one bit to have the INT-60 or 260.8’s. Their heat output is modest.

As for the A5’s, boy, they are soooo good. I demoed a pair on Saturday for a customer and he will certainly be pulling the trigger.

[VT Skier]

If you'd like to save money, Anthem (another underrated Canadian brand) has their STR integrated on sale at the moment. Class A Stereophile rated, DAC included, runs cool, and has room correction.

Sonically, staying with Canadians, I prefer Simaudio to NAD, but it is also more expensive. The Sim 390 is a killer piece, and you could add a Class D amp (or two) and stay under $10,000. I haven't heard their latest integrated amps, but Mike carries the brand, so can give you good advice, as always.

Having said that, NAD has definitely stepped up their game, and I love Jack's advice on getting an in-home demo from AA.

[Mike]

If you'd like to save money, Anthem (another underrated Canadian brand) has their STR integrated on sale at the moment. Class A Stereophile rated, DAC included, runs cool, and has room correction.

Sonically, staying with Canadians, I prefer Simaudio to NAD, but it is also more expensive. The Sim 390 is a killer piece, and you could add a Class D amp (or two) and stay under $10,000. I haven't heard their latest integrated amps, but Mike carries the brand, so can give you good advice, as always.

Having said that, NAD has definitely stepped up their game, and I love Jack's advice on getting an in-home demo from AA.

You’re right. After being floored by the Sim 390, we ordered all their other integrated amps last week. Can’t wait to hear the i700.

[VT Skier]

If you want to consider non-Canadian brands, I doubt anything can touch the Boulder 866 for anywhere near its price, although that's probably more than you'd like to spend. $15,000 with the DAC? And might run a little warmer than NAD, Sim or Anthem.

More good questions for Mike.

Also, I don't think Anthem STR is Roon certified, but I'm pretty sure Boulder and Sim are.

[the professor]

Naim amps don't run hot/warm and are much more musical than class D. IMO.

Supernait 3 is a great integrated, and as monies are available you can easily upgrade w power supplies.

[pdxaudio]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I guess hot maybe wasn’t the right description for the INT-60 but it’s definitely warm to touch and you can feel the effect of it, especially in a small/medium size room but even in my bigger living room I didn’t want to have it running for too long.

I did consider (and still considering) Boulder 866 but it felt as warm or warmer to touch when idle than INT-60. The Luxman L-509X (which is also on my list) I saw at a dealer right next to the Boulder was running a bit cooler.

I did look at the Anthem STR integrated and would definitely consider it if it had streaming/Roon integration. And I do like the Simaudio stuff but those would require multiple boxes and would get a bit expensive for what I like. I had not considered Naim or Aavik but will look into them.

[VT Skier]

Aren’t the Luxman and Naim units analog only?

The Exasound Playpoint DM is also very good, but you’d still need to add an amp.

Good luck with the search.

[Mr Peabody]

You have to get the Naim Unity series I believe to get all the features looked for. I forgot the website but the Naim was #1 in Top 20 streamers according to them.

Not sure pricing or what you'd use for streaming but the Devialet would be a great option. I heard a room using them to drive a set of Magico and it sounded great. They weren't even using the Devialet speaker software.

Linn was also on the Top 20 list, not sure the position, given high points for sound quality.

[geallan70]

small foot print.. cool running.. serious horsepower...

PS Audio Stellar M1200 with GainCell DAC/Preamplifier... :)

[Mr Peabody]

Here's the link, hope it works. The Linn didn't have amplification.

Best Music Streamers of 2020 | The Master Switch (https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-music-streamers)

[pdxaudio]

Aren’t the Luxman and Naim units analog only?

The Exasound Playpoint DM is also very good, but you’d still need to add an amp.

Good luck with the search.
Right, that’s why they are not really near the top of my list although I do like the Luxman, if only it had a digital/streaming module built in and came in black :)

I guess what I’m looking for is a high power all in one unit, >400W into 4 ohm, that runs cool and preferably comes in black. I’m interested in digital only, Roon ready. I guess Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 meets these criteria, I wonder how that would compare with NAD M33. Any others? Anything in the higher price range?

[pdxaudio]

small foot print.. cool running.. serious horsepower...

PS Audio Stellar M1200 with GainCell DAC/Preamplifier... :)
That covers my main requirements but now we’re talking 4 boxes after adding a streamer.

[pdxaudio]

Here's the link, hope it works. The Linn didn't have amplification.

Best Music Streamers of 2020 | The Master Switch (https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-music-streamers)
Thanks, I came across that list before but most of these have no or low power amps, Linn has an option of adding some amplification to it.

[geallan70]

That covers my main requirements but now we’re talking 4 boxes after adding a streamer.

one box... just enough horsepower... easy to expand if/when required...

Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. :P

[Mr Peabody]

Naim gear has low power ratings but perform better than their rating, typically very high current.

Have you looked at Devialet?


Thanks, I came across that list before but most of these have no or low power amps, Linn has an option of adding some amplification to it.

[pdxaudio]

Naim gear has low power ratings but perform better than their rating, typically very high current.

Have you looked at Devialet?
I am considering Devialet 220 as well but I’m wondering how its performance would compare to the NAD M33. I like the features of M33 more, just not sure if Devialet would sound better.

[AJR]

I’m planning on getting a pair of the new Magico A5s and I’m researching some integrated systems to drive them. I would like to get something that runs cool and has a small footprint so I started looking into class D amplification. Would something like the upcoming NAD M33 drive them sufficiently or do I need more/different power?

The budget is around $10k but could go a bit higher for the right system. Also my preference is a black component over silver and would like it to be an all in one system that is Roon ready. I’m open to any other suggestions in class D or otherwise.

Thanks

Haven’t read the entire thread so apologies if I have missed this, but if you want an integrated to drive Magico A5s or even A3s, the Gryphon Diablo 300 or 120 are must haves on your list

[AJR]

I am considering Devialet 220 as well but I’m wondering how its performance would compare to the NAD M33. I like the features of M33 more, just not sure if Devialet would sound better.

I owned a Devialet 220. Nice kit. Diablo 120 is better IMHO. I never owned a 120, but demoed it against my D120 and a Diablo 300.

[Mr Peabody]

In my opinion Devialet would sound noticeably better than NAD/M33. Obviously the M33 isn't out yet but I haven't heard any NAD Master series so far to come close to the Devialet.

NAD is pushing out some interesting products but they seem to be coming out before the bugs are completely worked out, especially in the software end. I was looking at the NAD C658 for possible use in a system where convenience is important, the user reviews of issues put me on another track.




I am considering Devialet 220 as well but I’m wondering how its performance would compare to the NAD M33. I like the features of M33 more, just not sure if Devialet would sound better.

[NekoAudio]

We're using the Devialet Expert 440 Pro Dual with a pair of Magico M2 speakers as our reference setup for personal listening. My preference is for the music to be reproduced as accurately and precisely as possible, as opposed to having some added color. If not using any other speaker correction, the SAM feature can help improve the coherency of a speaker.

[AJR]

We're using the Devialet Expert 440 Pro Dual with a pair of Magico M2 speakers as our reference setup for personal listening. My preference is for the music to be reproduced as accurately and precisely as possible, as opposed to having some added color. If not using any other speaker correction, the SAM feature can help improve the coherency of a speaker.

I bet it sounds amazing. What other amplifiers are using with the M2?

[pdxaudio]

Haven’t read the entire thread so apologies if I have missed this, but if you want an integrated to drive Magico A5s or even A3s, the Gryphon Diablo 300 or 120 are must haves on your list
Gryphon 300 looks good although I’d probably choose Boulder 866 over it because of its streaming capability, not sure how much heat the Gryphon puts out.

[pdxaudio]

And Devialet definitely sounds interesting although then I might want the 440 or 1000 but that gets expensive, could always start with 220.

[the professor]

The Gryphon 300 puts out a bunch of heat. It's a great piece and its internal dac is awesome. It performs WAY above it's price.

It doesn't get hot to the touch but that's because of it's great heat sinks to disperse the heat. But it does put out a bunch of Btu's.

[the professor]

I had a Devolet 1000 and yes on paper it has a lot of watts, but in actual use . . .

To be nice - I'll just say that it would go into protection mode if played loud. Where for example my Accuphase A-35 I had at the same time with its low rated power would play just as loud.

Def try before buying.

[Ritmo]

Magico and Class D... no! And, I’ve owned class D.

Why go there when there are so many good class A and A/B amps.

[owldiscourse]

Magico and Class D... no! And, I’ve owned class D.

Why go there when there are so many good class A and A/B amps.

Yes this is TRUTH. Diablo 300 and don’t look back. Especially with As. Made my A3s sound like slightly less refined M2s - no joke. Still kicking myself for selling them.


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[Mike]

Yes this is TRUTH. Diablo 300 and don’t look back. Especially with As. Made my A3s sound like slightly less refined M2s - no joke. Still kicking myself for selling them.


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Definitely Gryphon with Magico. Pass and Boulder too!

NO CLASS D


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[a.wayne]

I liked the M3 with VAC’s in mono mode , best for tone and flow IMO..


Regards

[a.wayne]

In my opinion Devialet would sound noticeably better than NAD/M33. Obviously the M33 isn't out yet but I haven't heard any NAD Master series so far to come close to the Devialet.

NAD is pushing out some interesting products but they seem to be coming out before the bugs are completely worked out, especially in the software end. I was looking at the NAD C658 for possible use in a system where convenience is important, the user reviews of issues put me on another track.

Is the Devialet considered Class D ..?

[Mike]

I liked the M3 with VAC’s in mono mode , best for tone and flow IMO..


Regards

Yes!


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[Elztalbiker]

Devialet
Pre = Class A
Power = Class D
Great combo Magico/Devialet imo.
There are many dealers and tests world wide which would confirm my opinion.
Try it out, it’s a question of taste. The combo sounds neutral.

Personally I would go Magico with VAC.


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[Elberoth]

I have owned several magicos and quite consistently, all the amps that sounded the best with them were on the warmer side of neutral. It can be a powerful tube amp or class-A solid state, but they have to be on the warmer side of neutral to make them sound right.

None of the D-Class amps I have tried on my Magicos (Devialet, Nord with NCore modules, Nord with the latest PuriFi modules) worked. The sound was way too thin and was lacking depth.

Of all amps I have tried, the ones I liked most were Vitus SM011 monos, Dagostino Momentum Stereo and my MSB M202 monos. All class A solid state.

I bet the big Conrad Johnson amps (tube) would also sound fantastic. Luxman, Accuphase should sound good with them too.

If you want to stay on the budget, I don't think you can do better than the MSB Technology S201 stereo power amp that is currently listed on AudiogoN @ $4900 (I'm not associated with the seller). For ~$7k you can get the MSB M202 monos - those are really special.

[steve59]

I cried when my krell kav 300 il warranty ran out best sounding piece I ever heard but it baked itself every year. other than that I think choosing an amp by how cool it runs is not going to guarantee musical results. $10k is a lot of cash and we know speakers and amps react differently. Why not place the speakers and start listening to first the amps that were in the demo that attracted you to them in the first place? My dealer lets me take anything home for the weekend and while that kinda obligates me to buy from him it's worth it.

[NekoAudio]

I bet it sounds amazing. What other amplifiers are using with the M2?
We also have the Lumin X1+AMP right next to the Devialet, with a separate set of speaker cables to make switching back and forth easy, and Bryston available to swap in too.

I had a Devolet 1000 and yes on paper it has a lot of watts, but in actual use . . .

To be nice - I'll just say that it would go into protection mode if played loud. Where for example my Accuphase A-35 I had at the same time with its low rated power would play just as loud.

Def try before buying.
FWIW, I've used the Devialet Expert 440 Pro to play movies at reference levels with the Magico S5 MkII and Magico M2 speakers without any problems.

[Bart001]

Naim gear has low power ratings but perform better than their rating, typically very high current.

Have you looked at Devialet?

I've been a Naim owner for about 10 years now. I did audition Devialet at home about 5 years ago. There was an initial 'that's cool' factor, but over the course of the first day (and I had it for a long weekend) I came to not like the sound; not nearly as "musical" as Naim. Clinical, "sharp" my wife called it. That was with my Devore Nines at the time. Maybe it's gotten better??

A Supernait3 would drive A5's nicely. You'd need a second box for digital (NDX2). If I were starting I'd listen to that, and Pass, and Aavik and Boulder if in the price range.

[imprezap2]

Definitely Gryphon with Magico. Pass and Boulder too!

NO CLASS D


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Hi Mike, that is a bit too much I think, there are definitly set ups with Magico and Class D amps that work well. (Aavik/Devialet), I have listened to the Aavik with A3/V3 and Q3, all three very musical combinations. (I count the Aavik amps to the warm side of neutral)

Olaf

by the way, I am not saying it is the best amp for Magico, but i does work well.

[KeithR]

I’m planning on getting a pair of the new Magico A5s and I’m researching some integrated systems to drive them. I would like to get something that runs cool and has a small footprint so I started looking into class D amplification. Would something like the upcoming NAD M33 drive them sufficiently or do I need more/different power?

The budget is around $10k but could go a bit higher for the right system. Also my preference is a black component over silver and would like it to be an all in one system that is Roon ready. I’m open to any other suggestions in class D or otherwise.

Thanks

I've auditioned quite a few amps so far on YG and the little Ampzilla 2000 monos are really great and would work well for Magico. They cost $5500/pr new, street. With the savings, you can buy a nice preamp for under your budget.

Their cost unfortunately counts them out for a lot of audiophiles, but the circuit is really good. They sound very natural and musical with great dynamics and grunt. They also have a 3d-ness quality that most SS amps in this price range lack.

[GSOphile]

I've auditioned quite a few amps so far on YG and the little Ampzilla 2000 monos are really great and would work well for Magico. They cost $5500/pr new, street. With the savings, you can buy a nice preamp for under your budget.

Their cost unfortunately counts them out for a lot of audiophiles, but the circuit is really good. They sound very natural and musical with great dynamics and grunt. They also have a 3d-ness quality that most SS amps in this price range lack.

They also got a very positive review on the 10Audio site some years ago.
Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 Second Edition Power Amplifiers | 10 Audio (http://www.10audio.com/ampzilla_2000_2nd_edition.htm)

[pdxaudio]

I've auditioned quite a few amps so far on YG and the little Ampzilla 2000 monos are really great and would work well for Magico. They cost $5500/pr new, street. With the savings, you can buy a nice preamp for under your budget.

Their cost unfortunately counts them out for a lot of audiophiles, but the circuit is really good. They sound very natural and musical with great dynamics and grunt. They also have a 3d-ness quality that most SS amps in this price range lack.
These look interesting, probably not really what I’m looking for, although I’m curious where you can get them at that price.

[pdxaudio]

A lot of different suggestions here, I appreciate all of them, not many people recommending class D, a few Devialet an Aavik suggestions. I guess I’ll have to try different options, I might try a class D with a 30 day trial and I’ll see if I can borrow a Boulder 866 from a dealer, maybe some other amps for comparison.