Audio Research Announces REF6SE and REF750SEL

[Mike]

The REF6 is officially now been updated to the REF6SE ($17,000 US Retail) and is in production now and will start shipping by the end of December or early January. There are no more REF6 units available and all current production is the REF6SE.

In January, ARC will make available a REF6SE Upgrade kit, consisting of vastly improved and higher quality capacitors, internal wiring, and a few other parts. The SE Upgrade kit price will be announced at that time.

For those that wish to have Audio Research perform the upgrade, the retail price is $3,000 and ARC will do all of the labor and testing to company standards along with the typical service warranty.

Additionally, we are proud to announce a special edition REF750SE. The REF750SEL (MSRP $37,500 EA) will replace the REF750SE effective immediately with first shipments in December 2019. We will build 20 serialized pair of this limited-edition model. Numerous component upgrades throughout yield dynamic sonic improvements: improved dynamics, bass impact, spatial dimensionality, purity and focus, speed, coherence, and transparency. The metal product label will state "SE Limited". Also, please note that no update kit will be available to convert the REF750SE to a REF750SEL. The changes are too substantial to make a field upgrade feasible. The REF750SEL is only available as a new unit direct from the factory.


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[Mike]

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[Mike]

I’ve got a REF6SE on order. Rep told me it takes the REF6 scary close to REF10 level.


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[Alpinist]

I’ve got a REF6SE on order. Rep told me it takes the REF6 scary close to REF10 level.


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Of course, a REF10 SE is probably on the horizon as well. :D

Ken

[Biketony]

New owner of a ref 6 pre bought used (also bought a pair of ref 160m’s).
Does the upgrade come with a new tube set ?

[Biketony]

Does anyone know if a new tube set is included with the upgrade done by audio research ???

[gasherbaum]

Hi Mike,
As I understood the ARC email promo I got, the new REF 6SE is based on the new architecture that ARC rolled out with the REF 160M and 160S? Does that mean that they will be upgrading the REF 10 to a REF 10SE and will current REF 10 owners be able to upgrade like the current REF 6 owners or will the new top of the line pre-amp be more like the REF 750SEL, which is not permitted an upgrade for current REF 750SE owners?
Also, do you know what ARC plans to do with its REF 3 Phono -- will there be a REF 3SE Phono and will current REF 3 Phono owners be able to upgrade or will be a totally new phono stage? thanks, Larry

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum!


New owner of a ref 6 pre bought used (also bought a pair of ref 160m’s).
Does the upgrade come with a new tube set ?

[Mike]

Hi Mike,
As I understood the ARC email promo I got, the new REF 6SE is based on the new architecture that ARC rolled out with the REF 160M and 160S? Does that mean that they will be upgrading the REF 10 to a REF 10SE and will current REF 10 owners be able to upgrade like the current REF 6 owners or will the new top of the line pre-amp be more like the REF 750SEL, which is not permitted an upgrade for current REF 750SE owners?
Also, do you know what ARC plans to do with its REF 3 Phono -- will there be a REF 3SE Phono and will current REF 3 Phono owners be able to upgrade or will be a totally new phono stage? thanks, Larry

No. REF 10 is done. No REF3 upgrade coming anytime soon.


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[Biketony]

Thank you for the welcome. Really enjoying my ref6 and 160m combo. I put myself on the upgrade list at audio research for the ref 6se upgrade. It doesn’t come with a tube replacement. But for a additional $750.00 a new tube set would be tested and sent with it. Can’t really imagine how this could get better but looking forward to it.

[Mike]

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REF6EE arrived today. Paired with the 160M’s in Triode mode. Speakers are Fyne F-12’s.


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[Mike]

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[Bifwynne]

Mike,

Own the Ref 6. The innards of the 6SE looks identical to the 6. What's the change?

Any impressions yet on SQ?

BIF

[Mike]

Mike,

Own the Ref 6. The innards of the 6SE looks identical to the 6. What's the change?

Any impressions yet on SQ?

BIF

ARC is working on a paper to outline the differences and describe the benefits. The new capacitors and upgraded internal wiring are the core parts used in the upgrade, but these are highly proprietary and ARC will not divulge any specifics.

The transient and pulse response is substantially improved, as is the overall speed and dynamics, improved and highly focused imaging, more accurate soundstage with more air and refinement, more powerful and accurate bass, and overall tonal improvements.

My takeaway so far is that this is a lot closer to a REF10.


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[Alpinist]

ARC is working on a paper to outline the differences and describe the benefits. The new capacitors and upgraded internal wiring are the core parts used in the upgrade, but these are highly proprietary and ARC will not divulge any specifics.

The transient and pulse response is substantially improved, as is the overall speed and dynamics, improved and highly focused imaging, more accurate soundstage with more air and refinement, more powerful and accurate bass, and overall tonal improvements.

My takeaway so far is that this is a lot closer to a REF10.


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The REF6 was not in the ballpark of the REF10 IMHO. I had both in my room and did a direct comparison. So the REF6SE must be a significant improvement over the REF6. Bravo ARC for improving an already fine preamp.

Ken

[Biketony]

Put my name in at audio research for the ref 6se upgrade. Should be near the end of January. Really looking forward to the improved imagery.

[Biketony]

Mike, any additional takeaways from the ref6se ?

[Mike]

Mike, any additional takeaways from the ref6se ?

See post 14 above. Not sure how much else I can add.


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[Mike]

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/01/audio-research-ref6-se-preamplifier.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

[Bifwynne]

Mike,

It has been 6 months since your last post on this thread. Can you please share your personal impressions of how the Ref 6 SE sounds. In particular, I am sure all of us would like to know if the SE upgrade makes a significant difference in SQ.

Thanks

BIF

P.S. -- I am on the ARC SE upgrade list. Greg, ARC service rep, says ARC may be ready for my Ref 6 in late September or thereabouts.

[Mike]

Mike,

It has been 6 months since your last post on this thread. Can you please share your personal impressions of how the Ref 6 SE sounds. In particular, I am sure all of us would like to know if the SE upgrade makes a significant difference in SQ.

Thanks

BIF

P.S. -- I am on the ARC SE upgrade list. Greg, ARC service rep, says ARC may be ready for my Ref 6 in late September or thereabouts.

BIF - you will be delighted with the changes. We’ve been listening a lot. I was one who was very skeptical the changes would be that significant, but they are. Gone is the slightly “nervous” sound (as Joe says) of the REF6. There is more meat on the bones, a more relaxed sound and frankly and overall sonic picture that is painted very close to the REF 10. I would call the REF6SE, a REF9. It’s that close.

[Bifwynne]

Thanks Mike.

Too bad ARC doesn't want to do a Ref 150 SE "Mark II" upgrade with new caps and wire. I surmise that a Ref 150 SE "MK II" would come too close to the Ref 160 and put a squeeze on the new Ref 160 offering.

OK , ... I too admit my skepticism that caps and wire would make all that much a difference. But if based on your "real" audiophile comments, there is a difference, then your anecdotal experience says a lot.

BTW, since my rig will be out of commission during the time my Ref 6 is being upgraded, I asked ARC to look over my Ref 150 SE and CD-8 CDP. The other units are roughly 10+ years old and I though a check-up would be a good idea. ARC said ok, although probably not necessary if everything works.

Last point. I caught a thread on Audiogon that reports some folks are having a bit of a hard time sourcing redbook CDs. Many A'gon members said a good place to pick up CDs is on Amazon. That may be. But I wonder if redbook CD media has run its course and if so, whether it is time to seriously explore streaming. My problem is that I am 68 years old and I do not understand the technical lingo re streamers, DACs, file formats and so forth.

Any thoughts and suggestions?

BIF

[Mike]

Thanks Mike.

Too bad ARC doesn't want to do a Ref 150 SE "Mark II" upgrade with new caps and wire. I surmise that a Ref 150 SE "MK II" would come too close to the Ref 160 and put a squeeze on the new Ref 160 offering.

OK , ... I too admit my skepticism that caps and wire would make all that much a difference. But if based on your "real" audiophile comments, there is a difference, then your anecdotal experience says a lot.

BTW, since my rig will be out of commission during the time my Ref 6 is being upgraded, I asked ARC to look over my Ref 150 SE and CD-8 CDP. The other units are roughly 10+ years old and I though a check-up would be a good idea. ARC said ok, although probably not necessary if everything works.

Last point. I caught a thread on Audiogon that reports some folks are having a bit of a hard time sourcing redbook CDs. Many A'gon members said a good place to pick up CDs is on Amazon. That may be. But I wonder if redbook CD media has run its course and if so, whether it is time to seriously explore streaming. My problem is that I am 68 years old and I do not understand the technical lingo re streamers, DACs, file formats and so forth.

Any thoughts and suggestions?

BIF

BIF - I’m not sure CD’s have run their course. Sounds like vinyl in the early 2000’s when most proclaimed that vinyl had “run it’s course”. If you’re looking to get into streaming, a simple one box solution like those from Lumin are the way to go. For a more “analog sound”, there is also the MSB DAC’s with the Roon Renderer modules. Another option is the new Esoteric streamer coming out next month. You just need to ensure you have an Ethernet connect in your listening room and fast internet.

[Bifwynne]

Put my name in at audio research for the ref 6se upgrade. Should be near the end of January. Really looking forward to the improved imagery.

Biketony,

Did ARC complete your SE upgrade yet? I put my name on the list months ago but COVID changed the timeline. ARC is hoping to upgrade my Ref 6 late September.

If ARC did complete your SE upgrade, can you share comments on how it sounds?

Thanks

BIF

[lem321]

Bifwynne,

I got both my upgraded 6SE and Phono 3SE back from ARC in the last week. The turnaround time was about a month door-to-door. A pleasant surprise was that the upgrades included a thicker (0.236 inch) poly top cover which ARC says is much less prone to warping although mine were both flat when they were returned to the factory. It has a nicely finished beveled edge and sits slightly higher than the side panels.

It's a bit early to fully assess the changes in sound quality but from what I hear so far, it's a noticeable improvement. In particular, the 6SE's bottom end seems to have more punch and "drive" for lack of a better term. Vocals seem also more fleshed out, the soundstage is about the same width but "denser." It's somewhat harder to distinguish what improvements I hear with the 3SE phono stage compared to the Phono 3. I fully agree with Mike's comments above which better articulate what I'm hearing. In particular, "There is more meat on the bones..."

Overall, IMO, the upgrade investment was worthwhile.

[Bifwynne]

Bifwynne,

I got both my upgraded 6SE and Phono 3SE back from ARC in the last week. The turnaround time was about a month door-to-door. A pleasant surprise was that the upgrades included a thicker (0.236 inch) poly top cover which ARC says is much less prone to warping although mine were both flat when they were returned to the factory. It has a nicely finished beveled edge and sits slightly higher than the side panels.

It's a bit early to fully assess the changes in sound quality but from what I hear so far, it's a noticeable improvement. In particular, the 6SE's bottom end seems to have more punch and "drive" for lack of a better term. Vocals seem also more fleshed out, the soundstage is about the same width but "denser." It's somewhat harder to distinguish what improvements I hear with the 3SE phono stage compared to the Phono 3. I fully agree with Mike's comments above which better articulate what I'm hearing. In particular, "There is more meat on the bones..."

Overall, IMO, the upgrade investment was worthwhile.

Lem321, ... thanks for the feedback. I take your point about the one month door-to-door turn-around time. I am hoping for a quicker turn. It may be that ARC was in slow down mode when your gear went in because of COVID.

As mentioned, Greg thinks he might be able to get my gear in at the end of the month. In a much earlier pre-COVID conversation, Greg thought ARC could turn my SE upgrade in a week. We'll see. I'll report back.

Lem, on another topic, you mentioned that you own a Ref 3SE phono pre. I own an ARC PH8. I don't know what (if anything) you used for a phono pre before the Ref 3, but would you care to comment, especially about your Ref 3SE. Reason for my asking: I am not sure if I want to go in the direction of direct streaming versus upgrading my existing CD and phono source media.

Thanks

BIF

[lem321]

Hi BIF,
Prior to the 3/3SE, I owned an ARC Ref Phono 2SE which I really liked. In fact, I "gave up" the legendary Vendetta SCP-2D phono stage for the 2SE. I don't stream but do listen to CDs on my ARC Ref CD9. I find analog so much more satisfying to be honest but the bulk of my audio investments has been on the analog side (TT, cartridges, phono stages) and less so with digital so the comparison may not be completely fair.