Pass Labs INT 250...

[bluegrassphile]

...I'm just continuing my amp search. I'd appreciate owners of the Pass Labs int 250, or those who've auditioned one, to tell me about it. ALL the reviews I've read and forum posts have been glowingly and very consistently positive. Please don't tell me to go audition one. There are very likely none within hundreds of miles from my home. And, being a relatively new component, they're going to be pretty rare to begin with. I'd really appreciate any info or comments from those who own one or have auditioned one. I'm especially interested in how the int 250 sounds through Harbeth speakers. Thank you so much.


Tom

[GSOphile]

If you're really interested, you can probably get a demo from Mark at Reno Hi Fi.

[Shadowfax]

If you're really interested, you can probably get a demo from Mark at Reno Hi Fi.

Pass Labs INT-250 high-current integrated amp Demo, new condition, about one month old, three years transferable factory warranty, all factory accessories, now in used boxing, (new factory boxing available for a nominal fee with amp purchase). Satisfaction Guaranteed, S/N 35741. $8995.

[bluegrassphile]

Pass Labs INT-250 high-current integrated amp Demo, new condition, about one month old, three years transferable factory warranty, all factory accessories, now in used boxing, (new factory boxing available for a nominal fee with amp purchase). Satisfaction Guaranteed, S/N 35741. $8995.

Well, there's another great deal I'll miss out on. Just don't have the money yet. It'll still be a few months. Dang!! Thanks for the heads up anyway, Brian.


Tom

[Jack]

The Pass would have let you cut down on your heat bill in the Winter too.

[bluegrassphile]

The Pass would have let you cut down on your heat bill in the Winter too.

We live in Iowa. Our listening room/family room/music room/recording studio is downstairs. It's all the same room. We don't usually heat it except when we're using the (small) wood burning stove. So, it can get a little chilly until we fire up the stove, which is actually fairly often...especially when colder days come our way. Maybe an INT 250 would help in heating the downstairs? Half kidding. We do have baseboard heat downstairs but we only use it to heat the room until the stove gets things toasty. The only problem is the INT 250 is a rather expensive space heater. :D

[Jack]

I still think your best bet is the Luxman, but another option on the warmer side like Luxman would be Audia Flight. The FL Three S is a very good piece but finding a dealer would take some research. It doesn't have a "heat" problem.

[Paul]

Don’t you own the Harbeth ? Luxman or Accuphase would be better fit.


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[Jack]

Paul

I don't think he's going to be swimming in the Accuphase pool. Didn't you have good luck with Harbeth and LFD?

[Paul]

Jack. The LFD NCSE II was amazing. I really enjoyed it. But most people find they are too fugly. It’s most underrated amp. They are really simple circuit and pure musical sound.


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[Jack]

I don't think they are fugly and Jeff at Tone just did a rave review of the newest version. Hard to find and pricey new for the power output.

[bluegrassphile]

Sounds like the int 250 has some detractors (heat, styling, etc.). For me the Luxman 509x is still very much in the running. Same with Accuphase. But, almost without exception, the reviews of the Pass Labs int 250 are very highly and consistently positive. Styling and heat are the only negative comments I've read. Our music room, being downstairs, is always cool. So that's not a factor in my decision and I happen to like the art deco-ish styling.

But I would really like to hear how it stacks up with integrated amps in a similar price range. Other amps I'm considering include...NAIM Supernait 3 (due out this month), Simaudio/Moon 700i v2, Simaudio/Moon 340ix, Hegel H590, Audio Research VSi75, and Rogue Audio. I've even thought about the McIntosh MA 9000 but heard it doesn't pair well with Harbeth.

Anyway, it's fun to research it but it's overwhelming at the same time. Just when I've settled on a first choice for my new amp I read about something else that fits what I'm looking for almost exactly. But, at this very moment, the int 250 really has my attention.

I do agree with a poster on the Audiogon forum that heat, over a period of time, can take it's toll on electronic components. And it sounds like the int 250 does put out some heat. However, a lot of amps put out considerable heat (some more than others) and I just don't read much about heat damage to electrical components in audio amps unless they're heavily used for decades. I'm sure that there is some but evidently it's not a big factor.

Anyway, I'd like to hear more about the int 250. I'd especially be interested in any comparison of the Pass Labs int 250 and the Hegel H590. Don't forget, I have Harbeth speakers. Thanks guys. Keep the discussion going. I really appreciate the info.

[aardvarkbark]

I have the INT-250 and am very pleased with it. I'm afraid I can't offer much other than agree with the glowing reviews you have read. I have mine paired with B&W 803D2's, so can't speak to how it sounds with Harbeths. And I haven't heard any of the other integrateds you are considering. It displaced an Ayre AX-5 Twenty.

I don't think you should let the heat issue be a deterrent, especially given your description of your listening room. I have mine in a wood cabinet that is open on front and back and has a couple inches on either side and maybe four inches above. I do have two small fans mounted in the back to continuously draw air through. The amp never gets so hot that I can't keep my hand on it. Nor is the heat so intense that I can feel any warmth on the outside of the cabinet or on the top of the shelf above it. Personally, I'm not buying the argument you cited (and which I had seen) that the heat will cause degradation of the amp over time. Frankly, I trust Pass Labs enough to think they wouldn't bring a self-destructing design to market. When I had asked them about this very point, they said that the heatsinks are designed to dissipate the the levels of heat produced.

Couple other things you might want to consider -- After-sale manufacturer support is exceptional. Have a question or concern? Give them a call. They'll have an answer or get back to you with one. Also, not only is service (should it be required) done in the US, it's done where they assemble them.

Finally, if you do decide to consider getting the INT-250, keep in mind that Mike is an AD. He took good care of me when I bought mine.

[bluegrassphile]

Thanks, aardvarkbark. Good info. Wow, you replaced an Ayre AX 5 Twenty with your int 250? That Pass must be really good. I've heard lots of positive comments about the Ayre. Quick question...What's an AD?

[myjazz123]

I also have pass int-250. Yes it gets warm some, but not much worse than others. I think hit issues are with pass class A monsters. In my system pass int-250 replaced luxman 509x. Pass is more natural with deeper bass and large 3d soundstage.
On a moderate to higher levels, pass int-250 is more relaxed and natural were luxman is strained and hifi/mechanical.
My speakers ate Sonus Faber Amati Traditions. Mike is the magician who will help a dream to come thru.

[Billion$Baby]

Why your not considering the 590AXII is beyond me. There are several people on this page and on AA that had the 509X and replaced it with the warmer/more musical 590AXII. (Which is also slightly CHEAPER) Keep doing your homework...and by all means ask Mike...just don't give him an Ulcer :)

[Mike]

Why your not considering the 590AXII is beyond me. There are several people on this page and on AA that had the 509X and replaced it with the warmer/more musical 590AXII. (Which is also slightly CHEAPER) Keep doing your homework...and by all means ask Mike...just don't give him an Ulcer :)

Too late. I already ordered him a 590 to audition when he’s here.


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[bluegrassphile]

Too late. I already ordered him a 590 to audition when he’s here.


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And, man, I can't wait. Right now the 590axii is one of my top three picks. I was originally concerned about the 590axii having the necessary horses, especially during transient peaks at higher volume levels. But I read that Luxman is very conservative with their power specs and the actual output is more like 90 wpc x 2 into 8 ohms. Add to that, Harbeth speakers are 6 ohms vs the usual 8 ohms which will up the power slightly more. Taking all that into consideration the 590axii is somewhere between 100 wpc to maybe as much as 120 wpc. Should be plenty, although I still have to admit I'd like the 590axii even more if was closer to 250 wpc. But that's certainly not a deal breaker. I hear so many superlative laced testimonies on the sound of the 590axii it's hard to ignore it. Yep, I'm very anxious to hear one.

[aardvarkbark]

Thanks, aardvarkbark. Good info. Wow, you replaced an Ayre AX 5 Twenty with your int 250? That Pass must be really good. I've heard lots of positive comments about the Ayre. Quick question...What's an AD?

Authorized Dealer (though in this case, Awesome Dude would also apply).



...Pass is more natural with deeper bass and large 3d soundstage.
On a moderate to higher levels, pass int-250 is more relaxed and natural...Mike is the magician who will help a dream to come thru.

I concur with all of this.


So, OP -- are you heading down to audition the Luxman? Will you get to compare it to PASS and Gryphon? That should be a fun day, if so.

[bluegrassphile]

Yes indeed, I will be going down to audition several different amps. Can't wait.

[bluegrassphile]

OK, I'll try this once more...Anyone else out there own or heard the Pass Labs int 250? I'd really appreciate more comments. After countless hours of research and auditioning another Pass amp (int 60), and a visit with Kent at Pass I finally told Mike to order me one. Any other great things I can expect from the int 250?

[Jack]

I thought you ordered a Diablo 300?

[bluegrassphile]

I thought you ordered a Diablo 300?


It's a relatively short, simple story, Jack. It has a little to do with Gryphon, but nothing concerning my dealer, or the forum itself. It's just a personal decision I made. However, to discuss it here would go against forum rules and, as I mentioned above, it's kind of personal.

I still think the D300 is one of the top five integrated amps that money can buy. According to what I've read on the forums and in reviews the Pass Labs int 250 should be included in that top five. It's another amp that really holds my interest right now.

[Dguitarnut]

I miss my Pass Int-60. Wouldn’t mind adding an Xa30.8 or xa25 just for those occasional solid state hankering day’s. Nawww.......don’t need a second amp, huh Joe!

[aardvarkbark]

OK, I'll try this once more...Anyone else out there own or heard the Pass Labs int 250? I'd really appreciate more comments. After countless hours of research and auditioning another Pass amp (int 60), and a visit with Kent at Pass I finally told Mike to order me one. Any other great things I can expect from the int 250?

More comments:

Congratulations.

I doubt you'll regret your decision.

If you liked the 60, I gotta think you'll like the 250 four times more! Joshing, of course, but you will get a fuller cleaner bass and a broader soundstage with the additional power.

Hit the gym daily before it arrives. Squats and curls with 100lbs are encouraged. Lots and lots of sit-ups. Order a hernia and spine dislocation prevention belt and cinch it tightly when handling the amp. Re-confirm that your healthcare insurance premium has been paid. Lift with your legs, not your back. Probably best to not have any essential career-making/breaking presentations planned for the week after you intend to position this in place. Think carefully about where you want this to be situated in your room; you'll only want to position it once. This is one HEAVY piece of kit.

As you've read and discussed in thread above, there will be heat. Kent and Mike can help you manage that given your room/cabinet situation. I ordered a couple of very quiet audio case fans because mine is in a cabinet (with sides and top, but open front and back). The 250 has a thermostat and shuts off when it gets too hot; mine never has, even after hours of listening at 'realistic' orchestra hall levels.

None of the cost has gone into the professional printing of the owner's manual. You'll think Kent just photocopied and put yours in a clear Office Depot sleeve just before it was boxed. It's how I bound my term papers in high school and college; no employer would have allowed me to submit a proposal or presentation to a client in such fashion. It has no impact on the sound/performance whatsoever.

The remote can be used to neutralize a home-invader, if necessary. I appreciate how solid and substantial it feels, but I just really get off on rotating the hockey-puck sized volume control and having the tactile interaction with the power button.

[bluegrassphile]

More comments:

Congratulations.

I doubt you'll regret your decision.

If you liked the 60, I gotta think you'll like the 250 four times more! Joshing, of course, but you will get a fuller cleaner bass and a broader soundstage with the additional power.

Hit the gym daily before it arrives. Squats and curls with 100lbs are encouraged. Lots and lots of sit-ups. Order a hernia and spine dislocation prevention belt and cinch it tightly when handling the amp. Re-confirm that your healthcare insurance premium has been paid. Lift with your legs, not your back. Probably best to not have any essential career-making/breaking presentations planned for the week after you intend to position this in place. Think carefully about where you want this to be situated in your room; you'll only want to position it once. This is one HEAVY piece of kit.

As you've read and discussed in thread above, there will be heat. Kent and Mike can help you manage that given your room/cabinet situation. I ordered a couple of very quiet audio case fans because mine is in a cabinet (with sides and top, but open front and back). The 250 has a thermostat and shuts off when it gets too hot; mine never has, even after hours of listening at 'realistic' orchestra hall levels.

None of the cost has gone into the professional printing of the owner's manual. You'll think Kent just photocopied and put yours in a clear Office Depot sleeve just before it was boxed. It's how I bound my term papers in high school and college; no employer would have allowed me to submit a proposal or presentation to a client in such fashion. It has no impact on the sound/performance whatsoever.

The remote can be used to neutralize a home-invader, if necessary. I appreciate how solid and substantial it feels, but I just really get off on rotating the hockey-puck sized volume control and having the tactile interaction with the power button.


LOL!! LOVE your post! Funny but very informative. Thank you!!

[joeinid]

What do I know, I’m gettin’ more. :)


I miss my Pass Int-60. Wouldn’t mind adding an Xa30.8 or xa25 just for those occasional solid state hankering day’s. Nawww.......don’t need a second amp, huh Joe!

[bluegrassphile]

I miss my Pass Int-60. Wouldn’t mind adding an Xa30.8 or xa25 just for those occasional solid state hankering day’s. Nawww.......don’t need a second amp, huh Joe!

Yeah, Larry, it was the int 60 that made a solid Pass Labs fan out of me. I fell in love with the int 60. But I was more interested in the int 250. So, I called Kent English and discussed both amps with him. And when he discovered I listened primarily to bluegrass he recommended the int 250 due to the percussive sound of acoustic instruments. Bluegrass instruments have a percussive quality to them. Decision made! But I can't purchase it until January. Six more weeks. Can't wait.

[Penthouse-D]

Thank God...

[bluegrassphile]

Joe, you need an int 250.

[joeinid]

Maybe if I had more conventional speakers. I’m thinking about it. Actually, the JBL 590 should be great with it.


Joe, you need an int 250.

[bluegrassphile]

I still like JBL speakers, Joe. Back in the late '70s I owned six JBL L-166 Horizons. I got to hear the new JBL L100s about a year ago. My ears really liked them. There have been some outstanding JBLs over the years. I'm bettin' your JBLs would sound great with the int 250.

[joeinid]

Very nice.

I’m thinking about adding a pair of Harbeth for my Naim SN2 next year. I want a pair of 30.2 Anniversary. My original 30.1 combo with the SN2 was wonderful to my ears.

These JBL 590 were very inexpensive, considering. Not to say that they aren’t good, but for the money they are outstanding. One more and done :)

Ha! We are never done. Remember that.



I still like JBL speakers, Joe. Back in the late '70s I owned six JBL L-166 Horizons. I got to hear the new JBL L100s about a year ago. My ears really liked them. There have been some outstanding JBLs over the years. I'm bettin' your JBLs would sound great with the int 250.

[bluegrassphile]

Great synergy between NAIM and Harbeth.

[Penthouse-D]

Joe, Spring for the 40.2 Anniversaries . We know you can!!! LOVING mine.

[joeinid]

:blush:

Probably too big for my room. The 40.1 were a little boomy. We’ll see.


Joe, Spring for the 40.2 Anniversaries . We know you can!!! LOVING mine.

[Paul]

Joe, Spring for the 40.2 Anniversaries . We know you can!!! LOVING mine.

Yes, Joe be like Joe I used to love [emoji3590] if I can do it so you can [emoji4]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191119/ad34d415af29827f3fcb164d91be0440.jpg


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[joeinid]

Hahahaha!

It’s not easy being me. :)


Yes, Joe be like Joe I used to love [emoji3590] if I can do it so you can [emoji4]


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[bluegrassphile]

Thank God...


Apologies to you. I know all my postings have been a bit (a lot) over the top and perhaps irritating or even obnoxious. I've never been so indecisive about a single thing in my life. I'm usually much more decisive. It's been fun but difficult at the same time. I've embarrassed myself a few times. My actual personality and my forum personality are quite different. But I think I'm a pretty good guy to get to know anyway.

Thankfully, it will be coming to an end in less than 3 weeks now. I can then sit back and enjoy what I've spent easily 100+ hours researching. I even spent $1000+ on a trip to Suncoast Sound for amp auditions. But if all my antics help another audiophile with their decision/s it will be a good thing.

As I've mentioned several times in previous posts, I started this venture last February after a 40+ year absence from high end home audio. I knew almost nothing about contemporary high end home audio. I had a lot of work ahead of me. Just getting up to speed on manufacturer names was a major undertaking. And I'm still learning. I didn't even know Schitt. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :rolleyes: I knew NOTHING about the digital aspects of high end audio. I've even been ridiculed for my ignorance in some posts. Growing up in the '50s and '60s, I'm barely computer literate, let alone digitally literate.

Anyway, I'm about to end the (intense) research and acquisition phases of this journey and I'm ready to start the ownership phase. Not that the research phase is ever done. I've read countless reviews on countless components and auditioned some. I've scoured 5 or 6 different forums for information and opinions. But I do feel much more confident in my knowledge of current high end home audio and even what I've learned about the digital aspects the last few weeks.

So, 3 more weeks to "pay day." As some of you know, I split my audio system purchase into 2 separate years (2019 and 2020) for tax purposes. I purchased the speakers, cables, and stands last summer and the remaining components will be purchased next month.

I'll post a review after I have the system up and running. It's kind of ironic that it probably wouldn't matter what brand of components I purchased. In the end I'd likely be just as happy with one component as another, especially higher end components. The components I'm purchasing are such highly rated ones I don't think I could go wrong. I doubt there is anything that sounds appreciably "better" in my system's relative price range. I could certainly find something that sounds as good, but different.

Over the next few months and years it's likely that "different" quality may be what I end up chasing. Hopefully, I will have done such a good job at researching the high end audio market I will find chasing that magical quality unnecessary. But I won't bet on it...yet. ;) Thank you for your patience and tolerance. :cool:

[joeinid]

No need to apologize Tom.

[aKnyght]

i would not worry -- we are all just having fun here with this hobby... and, i for one have quite enjoyed following you quest over the past year and hope that at least a few of my responses have been helpful.

[bluegrassphile]

i would not worry -- we are all just having fun here with this hobby... and, i for one have quite enjoyed following you quest over the past year and hope that at least a few of my responses have been helpful.


Your responses to my posts were always helpful and or encouraging. Same with Joe's.

[bluegrassphile]

Thanks, Joe. But I know I've vacillated a lot with my choices. And there have been times when I just would have been better off to give it a little break. I've done a lot of "thinking out loud" on the forum when I probably should have kept my thoughts to myself and not been such a "forum hog". But like aKnyght said, we're all just trying to have fun here. That's the bottom line. But I don't want to have my fun at the expense of someone else. That is all. :cool:

[Scotty]

Bluegrass - hope you are including some Alison Krauss in your listening cycle - btw, I love my Pass Lab Sit-3; I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

[bluegrassphile]

Bluegrass - hope you are including some Alison Krauss in your listening cycle - btw, I love my Pass Lab Sit-3; I'm sure you won't be disappointed.


Yeah, Scotty you can count on that. My new system should really shine with Alison. I'll bet your Pass Labs SIT 3 sounds killer.

[joeinid]

OMG! For efficient speakers, the SIT3 kicks @ss.


Bluegrass - hope you are including some Alison Krauss in your listening cycle - btw, I love my Pass Lab Sit-3; I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

[Q3Di]

I don't have Harbeth. I have the INT-250 pairing with Revel Studio2. I wanted Luxman 509X to match with my D-08u but I never audition the 509x. So I replaced the INT-150 with the 250.

[bluegrassphile]

Jim, if mine is any indication, I'm very confident you're going to love your INT 250. From top end to bottom end it's about as close to audio perfection as you will get. I sure love mine. Can't stop listening to it. It's playing as I write this. Just when I think it couldn't sound any better, it does. I've only had it about a week and it's still breaking in, along with my MSB Discrete dual powered DAC and Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers. I could have had most amps that I wanted under $20,000 and chose the INT 250. It was the right choice for me and my ears. Like I said above...I LOVE it! Hope you like yours as well.

[Ritmo]

I don't have Harbeth. I have the INT-250 pairing with Revel Studio2. I wanted Luxman 509X to match with my D-08u but I never audition the 509x. So I replaced the INT-150 with the 250.

Hi Jim -

The Pass INT 250 should be a terrific match for the Studio 2s. I had Salon 2s and have a friend with Salon 2s being driven beautifully by a Pass 350.8.