MSB Premier arrives as Suncoast Audio

[Mike]

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I ordered it with the upgraded PowerBase, but also the stock power supply so people could hear the difference.

It’s driving the Gryphon amp directly and beautifully. Definitely need to try it into a preamp to compare. I’m using the Roon Renderer at the moment.


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[vortrex]

So it looks like you can get MQA over the renderer? The website says MQA for the USB, but no mention of it for the renderer.

[Mike]

So it looks like you can get MQA over the renderer? The website says MQA for the USB, but no mention of it for the renderer.

Yes. The new Renderer module handles full MQA decode.

[AJR]

I can’t wait to receive mine. Supposed to arrive this week. Mike - will be fascinated in your thoughts once you have burned it in and compared it with a separate preamp driving your Colosseum.

[UltraFast69]

Looks very nice. Really curious if Reference is 50% of the Premier taking out the power base?

[KeithR]

Fun week at work :)

[AJR]

The eagle has landed. Picking it up tomorrow. And also my Innuos. Antileon Evo demo the next day. Party time

[vortrex]

How's the MSB sounding?

[Mike]

How's the MSB sounding?

Who you asking?


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[vortrex]

Who you asking?


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You, or anyone else who has a Premier or Discrete. I think you might be the only one at the moment?

[AJR]

I can’t get my Innuos Zenith and MSB Premier to talk to each other. Very frustrating. Will try again tomorrow.

[Mike]

You, or anyone else who has a Premier or Discrete. I think you might be the only one at the moment?

Yes. And my Discrete is enroute. The Premier is breaking in nicely. It sounds better with a good preamp IMO. Unlike the Select II which has a $12,000 internal preamp module, the Premier is superb, but I like it with a preamp.

The sound is totally MSB. Very analog like. Very analog like. It’s of course not at the level of the Select II, but it’s superb and real winner at its price point.


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[Boogieman]

Dear Sir,
What is the difference in the house sound between this MSB and Chord DAVE, with and without Chord BLU2?
Thank you

[Mike]

Dear Sir,
What is the difference in the house sound between this MSB and Chord DAVE, with and without Chord BLU2?
Thank you

I’ll let someone else answer this one. [emoji6]


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[Thieliste]

Mike will you be getting the MSB Reference DAC ? i'd like to have feedbacks on this one driving monoblocks direct like the D'agostino M400.

[Mike]

Mike will you be getting the MSB Reference DAC ? i'd like to have feedbacks on this one driving monoblocks direct like the D'agostino M400.

Currently considering it, yes.


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[Thieliste]

Currently considering it, yes.


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Great:)

[KeithR]

one thing about the Premier unlike former MSBs is you need to defeat the volume control in the setup menu and set the gain appropriately if using a preamp. Said another way, volume at 100 still has the volume control implemented.

[Mike]

one thing about the Premier unlike former MSBs is you need to defeat the volume control in the setup menu and set the gain appropriately if using a preamp. Said another way, volume at 100 still has the volume control implemented.

That’s not my understanding. The ladders are driving the output directly. Set the VC to 98 and you’re good to go.


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[AJR]

Not that my MSB Premier is even working (waiting for a replacement renderer) but Keith is right - if using a pre amp you have to go to the menu and select one of the two “volume off” options plus set the “output” to “low”.

[AJR]

Here is manual extract:

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23478&stc=1

[Mike]

Not that my MSB Premier is even working (waiting for a replacement renderer) but Keith is right - if using a pre amp you have to go to the menu and select one of the two “volume off” options plus set the “output” to “low”.

Yes - but is this DSD only? I need to find out. But I think this is optimizing for DSD only.


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[Mike]

Turns out this is a new setting for Premier and Discrete. It’s not needed on the REF or S2. This is fun! Need to try this setting. Thanks for pointing out.


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[Mike]

I played around with the VC at 98 vs Optimized vs Natural and high/low. Honestly, couldn’t tell any real difference other than high/low. I’m leaving it on Natural Low. Optimized had a little more resolution. Natural sounded, uhh...a little more natural.


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[AJR]

Mike - thanks for this. Do you mean “Volume off - Native” instead of “Natural”?

[Mike]

Mike - thanks for this. Do you mean “Volume off - Native” instead of “Natural”?

Yes

[KeithR]

Wow- I am floored at this thing in my system. Even with the small, mono power bases. Just amazing.

I did hear the Premier vs Reference yesterday - much, much different than my last audition. The volume control set properly and more burn-in on the Premier narrowed the two considerably. I would say 15-20% better for the Reference. It has a bit more information, dynamics, and "thereness." I also demo'd the various power supplies and took home the base monos.

I will be trying the Femto 93 clock upgrade for my Premier next - very excited as its card-based. Honestly, I won't be surprised if I sell or downgrade my analog rig. Its that good gentlemen!

[Mike]

Wow- I am floored at this thing in my system. Even with the small, mono power bases. Just amazing.

I did hear the Premier vs Reference yesterday - much, much different than my last audition. The volume control set properly and more burn-in on the Premier narrowed the two considerably. I would say 15-20% better for the Reference. It has a bit more information, dynamics, and "thereness." I also demo'd the various power supplies and took home the base monos.

I will be trying the Femto 93 clock upgrade for my Premier next - very excited as its card-based. Honestly, I won't be surprised if I sell or downgrade my analog rig. Its that good gentlemen!

So happy for your Keith. It’s totally transformed for me too since first installing. They all need 1-2 weeks of solid run (24/7) and you will be well rewarded. For me, the MSB’s are the best at their respective price points if you’re after that analog sound. If you prefer digital sounds, well, there’s lots out there like that. [emoji6]


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[Kingsrule]

I'll bet there is a big difference between the Select and Reference when using them direct to the amp...

[Alpinist]

I'll bet there is a big difference between the Select and Reference when using them direct to the amp...

I’ve listened to them both in identical systems without preamp and yes, the Select is significantly better than the Reference in virtually every way.

Ken

[KeithR]

So happy for your Keith. It’s totally transformed for me too since first installing. They all need 1-2 weeks of solid run (24/7) and you will be well rewarded.

I think you are right, Mike. I initially heard it after only 1 week of run-in. I have also read that huge A'gon thread about redbook cd dacs and while it became totally silly, one thing that stood out is that the OP now says he won't listen to a dac until 4-500 hours are on it. I am always skeptical about such claims, but maybe there is something to it.

I am currently typing while 10' to the side of my system and it sounds like analog - just nutty.

[KeithR]

I’ve listened to them both in identical systems without preamp and yes, the Select is significantly better than the Reference in virtually every way.


Ken, I'm not sure I ever want to hear that demo. Ha!

Seriously though, for my more modest system the Premier hits all gears. In your SOTA one, the Select must be beyond amazing.

[vortrex]

I also demo'd the various power supplies and took home the base monos.


What was the difference between the single and dual base power supplies?

[Alpinist]

Ken, I'm not sure I ever want to hear that demo. Ha!

Seriously though, for my more modest system the Premier hits all gears. In your SOTA one, the Select must be beyond amazing.

Hi Keith,

Congratulations on your MSB Premier, it is a superb DAC! Yes, the Select II DAC is indeed very special sounding but the Premier has such a complete sound, you won’t be wanting for anything unless you specifically do a direct comparison.

Enjoy,
Ken

[AJR]

My replacement ethernet renderer module works! So my Premier is now up and running. It is being fed directly by the streamer out on my Innuos Zenith which also runs Roon Core. Now the burn in...

Keith - looking forward to your thoughts on the Femto 93 clock upgrade.

[sakso136]

Hi guys,
I m interested in a new dac, and the premier tick all my boxes, but indeed way expensive than my budget allow!
Assuming that i skip a preamp in my system, and get the premier fitted with the ethernet renderer and usb input ~ 22usd , do you think sq wise, the premier will outperform lets say a r2r dac=8000 usd+ preamp= 6000usd+ streamer= 4000 usd?
I have an msb dealer here where i live who don t stock any model, and i m lost wich route i should head, knowing that i m willing to replace an excellent devialet200 used as pre/ dac/ streamer feeding an excellent poweramp.
Thks


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[Mike]

Hi guys,
I m interested in a new dac, and the premier tick all my boxes, but indeed way expensive than my budget allow!
Assuming that i skip a preamp in my system, and get the premier fitted with the ethernet renderer and usb input ~ 22usd , do you think sq wise, the premier will outperform lets say a r2r dac=8000 usd+ preamp= 6000usd+ streamer= 4000 usd?
I have an msb dealer here where i live who don t stock any model, and i m lost wich route i should head, knowing that i m willing to replace an excellent devialet200 used as pre/ dac/ streamer feeding an excellent poweramp.
Thks


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Where do you live? What MSB dealer doesn’t stock any model? If that’s the case, he’s not a dealer. I would check on this.

To answer your question: yes. The Premier can work beautifully as a VC. Of course a preamp can add some magic, but if push came to shove, the Premier and its VC is the way I would go.


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[sakso136]

Where do you live? What MSB dealer doesn’t stock any model? If that’s the case, he’s not a dealer. I would check on this.

To answer your question: yes. The Premier can work beautifully as a VC. Of course a preamp can add some magic, but if push came to shove, the Premier and its VC is the way I would go.


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Hi mike,
Thks for the reply.
If i go the premier route , i will be stuck for a while before i can add any upgrade( add a descent preamp, clock, power base), so do you think that the premier will at my stage, and my current system outperform my front end devialet?
The devialet is doing an excellent job as pre and dac now but it s quite an old dac now!
My fear is , invest big on premier and get small on perf!



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[Mike]

Hi mike,
Thks for the reply.
If i go the premier route , i will be stuck for a while before i can add any upgrade( add a descent preamp, clock, power base), so do you think that the premier will at my stage, and my current system outperform my front end devialet?
The devialet is doing an excellent job as pre and dac now but it s quite an old dac now!
My fear is , invest big on premier and get small on perf!



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I think it’s the right move. You can always add power base, clock, etc. later.

Where do you live?


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[sakso136]

I live in dubai.


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[Mike]

I live in dubai.


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Ok. I would first ask your local dealer to bring one in.


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[Ctsooner]

I think you are right, Mike. I initially heard it after only 1 week of run-in. I have also read that huge A'gon thread about redbook cd dacs and while it became totally silly, one thing that stood out is that the OP now says he won't listen to a dac until 4-500 hours are on it. I am always skeptical about such claims, but maybe there is something to it.

I am currently typing while 10' to the side of my system and it sounds like analog - just nutty.

Keith, I've been on that thread since nearly day one. the OP is a very close friend of mine and does a great job of trying to audition. It's not scientific and he's the first to say it's for his system, his ears and his room. I've been in Matt's room and although we hear differently, he's just giving folks his take. It's as popular a running thread as I've ever seen in sports boards or audio boards. There are some posters on there who are just trying to advance their own agenda and he's surely helped folks sell their gear, but that's not what he is trying to do.

Too many folks in audio are lemmings. They honestly don't audition and buy off of reviews. They buy off of threads like these. It's really sad, but it's true. I like certain lines of equipment, but I will also audition before purchasing. I alway try to stay that in my posts on any audio board I may be on. I love it when dealers like Mike and others invite folks to come in and play.

There are plenty of folks on that thread who are being pushed by certain companies or even some dealers who constantly post to try and make folks think their gear is the best etc.... Matt tries and does a good job at calling them out, but in a very positive way. He never disparages anyone.

Sorry, to go on, but it's been a great thread and I personally found my former DAC there and I didn't even know Empirical Audio even existed. Steve Nugent who owns it sold me his personal server and I loved his DAC, but liked the Ayre QX5/20 better for my needs. I now have The Memory Player server, streamer, DAC, headphone amp, analog AND digital pre being built for me. Sam, the owner, lives about 40 minutes away and we've become very good friends (best server I've ever heard and I've had most in the house by now). I've made at least 4 friends (real ones that I'm in touch with daily and keep up on life with) from that thread. Yes, I'm sensitive about that thread, lol ;)..... It's all good though and if you feel it's silly, it certainly is to you and that's to be respected by me. Just sharing both sides of the story. :). Thanks Pete

[sakso136]

Ok. I would first ask your local dealer to bring one in.


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Thks mike, i will ask him to bring it first!
I like the idea of the msb dacs, because the upgradability on time, and modules etc.... but never heard one!


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[KeithR]

Too many folks in audio are lemmings. They honestly don't audition and buy off of reviews. They buy off of threads like these. It's really sad, but it's true. I like certain lines of equipment, but I will also audition before purchasing. I alway try to stay that in my posts on any audio board I may be on. I love it when dealers like Mike and others invite folks to come in and play.

There are plenty of folks on that thread who are being pushed by certain companies or even some dealers who constantly post to try and make folks think their gear is the best etc.... Matt tries and does a good job at calling them out, but in a very positive way. He never disparages anyone.


re: dealers and manufacturers, bingo.

If you are in the dac-of-the-month club under 3k, buying without a demo is fine. but at the higher echelons i, too, find it mandatory. I even had the Formula dac at home for awhile this time around.

[Jabba]

At last I got my MSB Premier DAC. Frank and Frode was there to help with the installation of the DAC and Innuos Zenith. Everything was going smooth, and then Frank startet to tune in my system. Wow, already now it is playing very very good.I dont want to go to bed:congrats:

[AJR]

At last I got my MSB Premier DAC. Frank and Frode was there to help with the installation of the DAC and Innuos Zenith. Everything was going smooth, and then Frank startet to tune in my system. Wow, already now it is playing very very good.I dont want to go to bed:congrats:

I feel!

I have followed Mike’s and Keith’s (and others’) advice and have been burning it in 24/7 (using an eclectic playlist) since it arrived. But arrived home tonight and couldn’t help myself switch the Pandora’s mute button off and the Antileon Evo’s power button on. Have been loving the sound. A whole new level. My Lumin T1 was very good - but this is, well, a different postal code (and, to be fair, for a price in a different postal code). Can’t wait to hear how it sounds in another 2 weeks. And Keith’s report on the Femto 93. Happy days :)

[KeithR]

Welcome to the Premier club, gentlemen. All of us using Innuous Zenith servers as well :)

I'm still cooking mine 24/7 for another week. My only complaint so far is the MSB spikes are a pain and the umbilicals are short. If you have the Powerbase the latter isn't an issue.

[AJR]

Yep - ambilical cord is fine for me with the power base and I am also stacking them both on top of each other. Will post a pic.

[AJR]

http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23633&stc=1

[AJR]

Not an optimal setup. Room acoustics are my next work-on (thank you Jim Smith)

[vortrex]

What's the length of the umbilical cable?

[KeithR]

12" or less. I'd have to measure.

[AJR]

Am at 72+ consecutive burn in hours now and the big change I have noticed is more coherency across the board. The bass isn’t there yet though.

Mike - it is running quite warm, verging on hot. Well, hot is relative - it is nowhere close to the Antileon Evo! Let’s call it very warm. Can easily leave hand on it for a long time. Is this ok?

[AJR]

Wrong thread, but do any Roon users know how to get rid of the annoying “Radio Off” window? http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23646&stc=1

[nicoff]

Wrong thread, but do any Roon users know how to get rid of the annoying “Radio Off” window? http://www.audioshark.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23646&stc=1

I suggest that you create a new thread and you will get more responses.

[AJR]

That is my plan B :)

[nicoff]

That is my plan B :)

I use Roon but do not know the answer. Try Roonlabs forums.

[AJR]

Thanks. I went to this thread as I know most people on it use Roon. Don’t want to derail - hoping to get quick answer. I did spend a few minutes on the Roon website, but couldn’t find answer.

[KeithR]

Am at 72+ consecutive burn in hours now and the big change I have noticed is more coherency across the board. The bass isn’t there yet though.

Mike - it is running quite warm, verging on hot. Well, hot is relative - it is nowhere close to the Antileon Evo! Let’s call it very warm. Can easily leave hand on it for a long time. Is this ok?

It definitely can run warm, but mine is a rack above a tube amp and also isn't on spikes yet as my rack placement is going to change. Yours looks like its in a semi-enclosed space so no surprise. You might want to have your dealer email MSB.

I've got another 200 hours or so on mine and probably 3-400 overall. I will go one more week. Nice thing about digital is run-in is a breeze - try doing it with phono preamps lol. Allowing the Innuous to just run Roon Radio with my amp turned off rocks.

[Jabba]

Am at 72+ consecutive burn in hours now and the big change I have noticed is more coherency across the board. The bass isn’t there yet though.

Mike - it is running quite warm, verging on hot. Well, hot is relative - it is nowhere close to the Antileon Evo! Let’s call it very warm. Can easily leave hand on it for a long time. Is this ok?

Strange, mine is not warm at all. It is standing on top of the powerunit with spikes on both units.

[Al M.]

Yes. And my Discrete is enroute. The Premier is breaking in nicely. It sounds better with a good preamp IMO. Unlike the Select II which has a $12,000 internal preamp module, the Premier is superb, but I like it with a preamp.

The sound is totally MSB. Very analog like. Very analog like. It’s of course not at the level of the Select II, but it’s superb and real winner at its price point.


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Interesting, Mike. Can you please define analog like? I don't know what you mean, even though I listen to great turntables in my friends' systems all the time. How is it in your view more analog like than other digital?

Thanks
Al

[Mike]

Interesting, Mike. Can you please define analog like? I don't know what you mean, even though I listen to great turntables in my friends' systems all the time. How is it in your view more analog like than other digital?

Thanks
Al

Al,

So many DAC’s have that hashy, processed sounding, thin, overly sibilant, forward, fatiguing sound. They don’t sound organic. They don’t sound like master tape. They sound very computerized, oozing their 1’s and 0’s with pride. They don’t sound natural.

The MSB is the polar opposite. It sounds organic, rich, natural. It has body. It never sounds processed. It sound so close to master tape.


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[Al M.]

Al,

So many DAC’s have that hashy, processed sounding, thin, overly sibilant, forward, fatiguing sound. They don’t sound organic. They don’t sound like master tape. They sound very computerized, oozing their 1’s and 0’s with pride. They don’t sound natural.

The MSB is the polar opposite. It sounds organic, rich, natural. It has body. It never sounds processed. It sound so close to master tape.


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Thanks, Mike. I guess then my Yggdrasil DAC sounds analog by that standard. Others may disagree. In any case, just a few days ago I had a vinyl lover over and he thought that my DAC didn't even remotely sound 'digital', so I don't seem to be the only one who thinks so.

[Mike]

Thanks, Mike. I guess then my Yggdrasil DAC sounds analog by that standard. Others may disagree. In any case, just a few days ago I had a vinyl lover over and he thought that my DAC didn't sound digital at all, so I don't seem to be the only one who thinks so.

Al, when we compared Ian’s Yggy against his DCS, I think we both felt the Yggy was more organic. The DCS did all the hi-fi digital stuff, but the Yggy sounded more organic.

The MSB, takes this to a whole new level IMO.


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[Al M.]

Al, when we compared Ian’s Yggy against his DCS, I think we both felt the Yggy was more organic. The DCS did all the hi-fi digital stuff, but the Yggy sounded more organic.

The MSB, takes this to a whole new level IMO.


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That may well be, Mike, and I'll be curious to hear it some day. At this point though I have ordered ceiling diffusers from ASC that definitely will further improve the sound in a natural direction. Nothing beats the right acoustics if you want to achieve something of a resemblance of a concert hall experience. I have already worked a lot on my acoustics, and this will be yet another, probably important, step. No level of gear can substitute for that.

[sakso136]

Al, when we compared Ian’s Yggy against his DCS, I think we both felt the Yggy was more organic. The DCS did all the hi-fi digital stuff, but the Yggy sounded more organic.

The MSB, takes this to a whole new level IMO.


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Hi mike,
Wich dcs dac the Yggdrasil was compared to?
Thks


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[KeithR]

That may well be, Mike, and I'll be curious to hear it some day.

Hopefully a MSB Discrete dac is in your future- we'll be waiting :)

fyi, I run mine in a similar system as yours - passive to a tube amp

[Mike]

Hi mike,
Wich dcs dac the Yggdrasil was compared to?
Thks


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DCS Rossini I believe. I had an Yggy I took on trade (latest version) and I preferred the Lampi GA and MSB. But at $2400...it’s good. Just wish it did DSD and MQA. But again, I really feel there are DAC’s that fall into that musical, more organic category and others that don’t. You will find people who really do prefer that thin, crunchy, digital, hashy, processed sound. Maybe they grew up on MP3’s...don’t know?

[sakso136]

I understand exactly what you are saying.
I want my next dac organic musical fluid but i m not ready to trade dynamic decay details micro and macro and all the rest......
I m heading towards new r2r dacs like msb, totaldac tube mk2, denafrips terminal .....
I hope someone make comparaisons of all these superstar dacs!!


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[KeithR]

So many DAC’s have that hashy, processed sounding, thin, overly sibilant, forward, fatiguing sound. They don’t sound organic. They don’t sound like master tape. They sound very computerized, oozing their 1’s and 0’s with pride. They don’t sound natural.

Well said. And as an example, exactly what the Auralic Vega did in my system recently.

[Al M.]

DCS Rossini I believe. I had an Yggy I took on trade (latest version) and I preferred the Lampi GA and MSB. But at $2400...it’s good. Just wish it did DSD and MQA. But again, I really feel there are DAC’s that fall into that musical, more organic category and others that don’t. You will find people who really do prefer that thin, crunchy, digital, hashy, processed sound. Maybe they grew up on MP3’s...don’t know?

The comparison was with dCS Vivaldi plus Upsampler (MSRP $ 63K without cables). I have heard that comparison in Ian's system many times.

I just had an audio friend over who is pretty picky (in a good way), and he was also very impressed with the Yggy.

Doesn't say I'll never buy another DAC (MSB?) but I'm not itching.

[Al M.]

Hopefully a MSB Discrete dac is in your future- we'll be waiting :)

fyi, I run mine in a similar system as yours - passive to a tube amp

Cool!

[Mike]

The comparison was with dCS Vivaldi plus Upsampler (MSRP $ 63K without cables). I have heard that comparison in Ian's system many times.

I just had an audio friend over who is pretty picky (in a good way), and he was also very impressed with the Yggy.

Doesn't say I'll never buy another DAC (MSB?) but I'm not itching.

Thanks for the correction Al.


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[Al M.]

Thanks for the correction Al.


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No problem, Mike. I am definitely more curious now about hearing the MSB sometime.

[AJR]

It definitely can run warm, but mine is a rack above a tube amp and also isn't on spikes yet as my rack placement is going to change. Yours looks like its in a semi-enclosed space so no surprise. You might want to have your dealer email MSB.

I've got another 200 hours or so on mine and probably 3-400 overall. I will go one more week. Nice thing about digital is run-in is a breeze - try doing it with phono preamps lol. Allowing the Innuous to just run Roon Radio with my amp turned off rocks.

Keith - you were spot on. I rearranged things and the MSB is now on the top shelf and it runs only slightly warm - much cooler than before. Thanks.

Andrew

[AJR]

Am at circa 130 hours. Now hearing bass definition and depth for the first time. But still not there yet. The mids and highs are liquid though. Enjoying this journey.

Keith - any update on your Femto 93?

[AJR]

Am doing my best to be restrained. And I only have 130 hours consecutive hours of burn in time, so have some way to go.


But this sound is seriously extraordinary.


Just listened to my go-to audio testing track (Decks Dark by Radiohead) and I have never heard it sound like this.


It is liquid - like the terminator guy. Like a fondue. On steroids. Am seriously blown away.


Amazing.

����������������

[KeithR]

Am doing my best to be restrained. And I only have 130 hours consecutive hours of burn in time, so have some way to go.


But this sound is seriously extraordinary.


Just listened to my go-to audio testing track (Decks Dark by Radiohead) and I have never heard it sound like this.


It is liquid - like the terminator guy. Like a fondue. On steroids. Am seriously blown away.


Amazing.

🎼🕺🏿🥂🎼🥂🕺🏿

Any update on the breakin?

[AJR]

Small but noticeable improvement all round - but big improvement in the bass, particularly the mid bass. It is sounding really good now. I love it. And I am using the supplied power cable as I wait for a new AQ Tornado. So I expect it to get a little better.

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Premier with its base clock against the upgraded Fento 93? That will be a very interesting comparison.

[AJR]

Keith - how are you getting on with yours?

[Mike]

The Premier in the store has been running non-stop and has really started to show the true MSB sound. Big sound, analog smooth, gorgeous lush mids and a fabulous combination with any amp/preamp I try it with.

[AJR]

Mike - how many hours of burn in until it reaches optimal performance? I am at around 250 hours now and it is still improving.

[Mike]

Mike - how many hours of burn in until it reaches optimal performance? I am at around 250 hours now and it is still improving.

Not sure. Haven’t turned mine off since I got it.


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[Billt1]

I have watched this tread and waited with anticipation of every word printed in regards to the MSB Premier DAC as I waited for my demo to arrive. I have been in this hobby for decades and have never written a review but as my now purchased Premier settled in to 2 weeks of break-in I feel compelled to tell the story. Hopefully within the next few days I will be able to put my experience into words. I say this as I feel this was such a moving component I want to pay it justice and support my comments with previous experience, knowledge and ownership not just spit out random thoughts . I might call my review " MSB Premier , Holy Mother of Jesus !"

[sakso136]

I have watched this tread and waited with anticipation of every word printed in regards to the MSB Premier DAC as I waited for my demo to arrive. I have been in this hobby for decades and have never written a review but as my now purchased Premier settled in to 2 weeks of break-in I feel compelled to tell the story. Hopefully within the next few days I will be able to put my experience into words. I say this as I feel this was such a moving component I want to pay it justice and support my comments with previous experience, knowledge and ownership not just spit out random thoughts . I might call my review " MSB Premier , Holy Mother of Jesus !"

I m so interested in your review.
I m sure the premier is bloody good, but is it good for the money? Can you please relate previous experience with other dacs, and the abilities of the premier as preamp.
Thks


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[Billt1]

I do not know how to use quote so :"I want to pay it justice and support my comments with previous experience, knowledge and ownership" That is why I need time and yes I will list current equipment as well as past ownership for reference. I will submit for your reference personal experience and industry knowledge so one can see if what I know may be valid or disregarded as someone who wishes they knew . I'll leave that up to you.

[Billt1]

accidental duplicate post

[AJR]

Keith - how are you getting on with yours?

Keith - am dying for an update. Especially re your femto 93

[rhmmmm]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of upgrading my Meitner MA-1 to an MSB Discrete or Premier. I demo'ed my Meitner against the Discrete with dual power supplies yesterday at a local dealer and I thought it would be closer of a competition, but it was a noticeable difference and just not as fun to listen with the Meitner compared to even the Discrete.

I'm thinking of either a Discrete or Premier with dual power supplies and the network renderer module. Looking to go for the black finish, also. I have a half black/half silver system and I'm thinking of going all black.

1. What thoughts do you all have on Discrete vs. Premier?
2. Thoughts on the finish: silver vs. black? Personal preference for sure, but just wondering if I'm missing a difference in the quality of the finish?

Thanks!

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

[Mike]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of upgrading my Meitner MA-1 to an MSB Discrete or Premier. I demo'ed my Meitner against the Discrete with dual power supplies yesterday at a local dealer and I thought it would be closer of a competition, but it was a noticeable difference and just not as fun to listen with the Meitner compared to even the Discrete.

I'm thinking of either a Discrete or Premier with dual power supplies and the network renderer module. Looking to go for the black finish, also. I have a half black/half silver system and I'm thinking of going all black.

1. What thoughts do you all have on Discrete vs. Premier?
2. Thoughts on the finish: silver vs. black? Personal preference for sure, but just wondering if I'm missing a difference in the quality of the finish?

Thanks!

Glad to hear you liked the Discrete. If you can step up to the Premier, it's definitely worth it. As for finish, I like both the silver and black. It more depends on the accompanying equipment color as well.

[Priaptor]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of upgrading my Meitner MA-1 to an MSB Discrete or Premier. I demo'ed my Meitner against the Discrete with dual power supplies yesterday at a local dealer and I thought it would be closer of a competition, but it was a noticeable difference and just not as fun to listen with the Meitner compared to even the Discrete.

I'm thinking of either a Discrete or Premier with dual power supplies and the network renderer module. Looking to go for the black finish, also. I have a half black/half silver system and I'm thinking of going all black.

1. What thoughts do you all have on Discrete vs. Premier?
2. Thoughts on the finish: silver vs. black? Personal preference for sure, but just wondering if I'm missing a difference in the quality of the finish?

Thanks!

As one of the long timers with MSB you won't be sorry either with the sound or their service/upgrade/modular upgrades. I fell in love years ago with the Analogue, my "buddy" threw me for a look with the IV Plus which was mind blowing for the time and then MSB upgraded me to Select II. I had a Meitner I think it was the DAC2 which was actually more expensive than the older Analogue and I was literally shocked by how good the Analogue was.

Nothing against the Meitner, he makes great stuff and I greatly respect his abilities and equipment. It's preference and mine leans towards MSB.

[rhmmmm]

Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.

Thanks! Lurker for a decade, thought I had an account but I'm apparently now a first time poster.

To keep things on topic, any thoughts on the MSB questions?

[rhmmmm]

As one of the long timers with MSB you won't be sorry either with the sound or their service/upgrade/modular upgrades. I fell in love years ago with the Analogue, my "buddy" threw me for a look with the IV Plus which was mind blowing for the time and then MSB upgraded me to Select II. I had a Meitner I think it was the DAC2 which was actually more expensive than the older Analogue and I was literally shocked by how good the Analogue was.

Nothing against the Meitner, he makes great stuff and I greatly respect his abilities and equipment. It's preference and mine leans towards MSB.

Thanks for the thoughts! The Meitner has been a great DAC since I bought it in early 2013, great improvement over what I had before. What I was hearing from the MSB Discrete was simply more 'analog-like' - I really liked it.

[KeithR]

I'm thinking of either a Discrete or Premier with dual power supplies and the network renderer module. Looking to go for the black finish, also. I have a half black/half silver system and I'm thinking of going all black.

1. What thoughts do you all have on Discrete vs. Premier?
2. Thoughts on the finish: silver vs. black? Personal preference for sure, but just wondering if I'm missing a difference in the quality of the finish?


"Value" is up to the individual, but its hard to beat Premier with the 2 smaller PS. But you must get the 2nd one for a nominal fee.

As far as finish, I chose black as I don't want the dac to be the focus on my shelf. My ARC Ref 75ASE and Brinkmann Bardo are the focal points.

[mintakax]

I have the black Discrete with the two PS. The PS are the same for the Discrete and Premiere. Jonathan told me that it will be possible to upgrade the Discrete to a Premiere for what he thinks will be not much more than the original cost. That is what I am planning on doing one of these days.

[rhmmmm]

Thanks for everyone’s help! I am the proud new owner of a black Premier with dual discrete power supplies, network renderer module and Femto 93 clock! Loving it and the burn in is real on this!

[Mike]

Thanks for everyone’s help! I am the proud new owner of a black Premier with dual discrete power supplies, network renderer module and Femto 93 clock! Loving it and the burn in is real on this!

Congrats!! Enjoy. It’s a wonderful DAC. Let us know your thoughts as it breaks in.

[Ctsooner]

Congrats on your purchase. I personally have auditioned MANY of the top DAC's out there and I really liked the new MSB Select. It's legit. Too many DAC's aren't as great sounding as their price. I won't disparage them as we all hear differently, and folks who spend that kind of money don't need an idiot like me to say anything bad about their DAC's, lol.

If I had the money and it didn't matter, the Select would be on my short short list to bring in with a couple of others.

[Alpinist]

Thanks for everyone’s help! I am the proud new owner of a black Premier with dual discrete power supplies, network renderer module and Femto 93 clock! Loving it and the burn in is real on this!

Congratulations on your new Premier, it is a terrific DAC! Smart move going for the Premier with the extra power supply and upgraded clock.

Enjoy,
Ken

[Billt1]

Thanks for everyone’s help! I am the proud new owner of a black Premier with dual discrete power supplies, network renderer module and Femto 93 clock! Loving it and the burn in is real on this!
congratulations. Owned my Premier for many months now and the thrill has not diminished. Just ordered the Femto 93 clock. Can't imagine it can be better though. We will see next week when it arrives

[rhmmmm]

congratulations. Owned my Premier for many months now and the thrill has not diminished. Just ordered the Femto 93 clock. Can't imagine it can be better though. We will see next week when it arrives

Can’t wait to hear the differences. Would also like to hear if (and how much) burn in on the clock makes a difference.

[rhmmmm]

Roon posted on their Instagram page @roonlabs that MSB DACs are now officially Roon certified and to download new firmware “today” (Dec 30). This is great news because my Premier, running 14.12 shows up in Roon Audio Settings as being “Uncertified”...except there is no new firmware I can find beyond 14.12 which was posted 11/1/18 on the MSB site.

Am I missing something?

[Mike]

Roon posted on their Instagram page @roonlabs that MSB DACs are now officially Roon certifies and to download new firmware “today” (Dec 30). This sounded great because my Premier, running 14.12 shows up in Roon Audio Settings as being “Uncertified”...except there is no new firmware I can find beyond 14.12 which was posted 11/1/18.

Am I missing something?

Reboot your MSB DAC and see what happens. I got the updates on my end. They are pushed through automatically. I haven’t checked the Premier though. This was on the S2.

[rhmmmm]

So the Select now shows as “Certified” in Roon?


Reboot your MSB DAC and see what happens. I got the updates on my end. They are pushed through automatically. I haven’t checked the Premier though. This was on the S2.

[Mike]

So the Select now shows as “Certified” in Roon?

Yes and a new icon for it.


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[AJR]

I just turned my Premier DAC on and Roon no longer shows it as being “uncertified”. I didn’t notice anything to suggest anything was downloaded.

[Mike]

I just turned my Premier DAC on and Roon no longer shows it as being “uncertified”. I didn’t notice anything to suggest anything was downloaded.

Updates are pushed out. Easy peasy.


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[Mike]

So the Select now shows as “Certified” in Roon?

Reboot your Premier.


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[rhmmmm]

Thanks for the feedback! I’ll try when I’m back in the 1st! Appreciate it!

[rhmmmm]

The Roon post says “Update your device to the latest firmware to get started,” implying an update action is needed...nice to hear it’s just a reboot.

Are you still running firmware 14.12 on the DAC? Or did the RendererV2 firmware get auto updated instead?

[AJR]

I just turned my Premier DAC on and Roon no longer shows it as being “uncertified”. I didn’t notice anything to suggest anything was downloaded.

Sorry, I am wrong. It still says uncertified in the “Audio” tab in Roon. I am running the latest firmware (14.12) and have rebooted the Premier several times. Wonder if no automatic renderer update is because my MSB is connected (via ethernet) to my Innuos and not directly to my router. Will try.

[AJR]

Didn’t work for me. Connected the MSB renderer directly to my router and waited 20 mins or so with the MSB idle. Still says “uncertified” in Roon.

[Kingsrule]

My S2 certified itself a few days ago but in actuality nothing other than it's logo in Roon has changed...works the same.

If anything, integration with my iPad hangs a bit now and is slower

[Mike]

There were 40+ updates according to MSB, mostly non-essential code related to Roon.

[Kingsrule]

It would be nice for MSB to figure a way to let their customers know what is actively going on.....

[Mike]

It would be nice for MSB to figure a way to let their customers know what is actively going on.....

I will suggest an update summary be posted on their website.

I’ll also find out when the Premier and Discrete updates are coming.

[AJR]

Thanks Mike. Am surprised there is still no Renderer 2 manual on the website. I didn’t know it is supposed to automatically update itself. Wonder why it does for the S2 but not the Premier (unless others have found that it does?). If it is a Renderer 2 update and not a firmware update, it should not matter what the MSB model is, no?

[AJR]

But pleased to hear from kingsrule that the update does not change the sound quality

[Ritmo]

I will suggest an update summary be posted on their website.

I’ll also find out when the Premier and Discrete updates are coming.

Mike - Recommend MSB to issue “release notes” which is a standard practice for technology companies. Surprised they don’t do that.

[Mike]

Mike - Recommend MSB to issue “release notes” which is a standard practice for technology companies. Surprised they don’t do that.

Will pass it along.


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[veindoc]

I will suggest an update summary be posted on their website.

I’ll also find out when the Premier and Discrete updates are coming.. Hope mine arrives fully update especially in regards to Roon .

[Mike]

. Hope mine arrives fully update especially in regards to Roon .

Yes indeed.

I’ve already passed along the comments this morning. All good feedback. Thanks guys!


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[Billt1]

My Premier has not updated to be ROON certified as of 8 o'clock this morning. That may be because I have been running 24/7 trying to break in Femto 93 clock. I stopped the music now to allow access and will check when I get home for lunch . Being non certified never seemed to interfere with ROON interface use. Maybe there are certified features I do not know or would care about?

[Billt1]

Maybe I should start a new topic to talk about my Femto 93 clock experience ?

[KeithR]

Maybe I should start a new topic to talk about my Femto 93 clock experience ?

Look forward to it!

[Billt1]

Look forward to it!
I am picking up a powerbase from my dealer to home demo so I am going to wait while I also let the Femto 93 clock break in further before I offer my impressions . Working with a dealer is great as I can try before I buy. I didn't expect to own an MSB DAC until my dealer almost demanded I try MSB before buying anything else. He was so right.

[Alpinist]

My S2 certified itself a few days ago but in actuality nothing other than it's logo in Roon has changed...works the same.

+1

I don’t see any other changes either.

Ken

[rhmmmm]

If you have time when you write the impressions, would you please try to include as many configurations as you can?

-Base clock vs Femto clock with Discrete PS
-Base clock w/discrete ps vs base clock Powerbase
-Femto clock with discrete ps vs Femto clock with Powerbase
-And maybe an ultimate comparison of the Premier w/base clock/discrete PS vs Femto clock and Powerbase?

Really, anything you write would be helpful, just a wishlist!

Thanks!


I am picking up a powerbase from my dealer to home demo so I am going to wait while I also let the Femto 93 clock break in further before I offer my impressions . Working with a dealer is great as I can try before I buy. I didn't expect to own an MSB DAC until my dealer almost demanded I try MSB before buying anything else. He was so right.

[rhmmmm]

Any news on Roon certification for the Discrete and Premier owners? I am still seeing “Uncertified” in Roon after a few power cycles while/after being on and connected to the Internet for weeks.

[Billt1]

Any news on Roon certification for the Discrete and Premier owners? I am still seeing “Uncertified” in Roon after a few power cycles while/after being on and connected to the Internet for weeks.
My Premier has not updated to certified either

[KeithR]

If you have time when you write the impressions, would you please try to include as many configurations as you can?

-Base clock vs Femto clock with Discrete PS
-Base clock w/discrete ps vs base clock Powerbase
-Femto clock with discrete ps vs Femto clock with Powerbase
-And maybe an ultimate comparison of the Premier w/base clock/discrete PS vs Femto clock and Powerbase?

Really, anything you write would be helpful, just a wishlist!

Thanks!

In my auditions, the Premier + mono power supplies is the value point. If you want an upgrade, get the Femto before the Powerbase.