Roy Gregory Compares ARC Ref 10, VTL 7.5 Series III, and CJ GAT Series 2...

[cmalak]

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/trio_preamps.htm

[XV-1]

cj GAT rules:congrats:

[Alpinist]

The author states there is no clear overall winner. Once again, it comes down to proper component matching and personal taste.

Ken

[nicoludio]

RG is quite comprehensive and detailed in his reviews, yet concise. When I listen to a component that he has reviewed, most times, I find that he is quite accurate in his description of the sound quality and in giving a flavour of what you might expect.

Even in private e-mails, he does not say if one component is "better" than another. What he does offer to do is let you know which component provides more of the aspects that you value, be it presence/immediacy, tonality, harmonics, dynamics, soundstaging, etc.

[Alpinist]

RG is quite comprehensive and detailed in his reviews, yet concise. When I listen to a component that he has reviewed, most times, I find that he is quite accurate in his description of the sound quality and in giving a flavour of what you might expect.

Even in private e-mails, he does not say if one component is "better" than another. What he does offer to do is let you know which component provides more of the aspects that you value, be it presence/immediacy, tonality, harmonics, dynamics, soundstaging, etc.

Hi Nicoludio,

Overall, I enjoyed the article and thought Roy Gregory put a lot of time, effort and care into creating as objective a comparison as possible. Having heard the Ref 10 with a number of different amplifiers and knowing what performance it is capable of, left me wondering if the Berning pairing was less than an ideal match due to the Ref 10's higher output or just a general lack of synergy.

Best,
Ken

[Melbguy1]

If I were setting up a serious minimalist singled ended tube-based system, the Gat 2 would be the pre i'd put in the Christmas stocking. Love that champagne facia & natural sound :audiophile:.

[hifinutt]

thanks for highlighting that report . I saw an arc anniversary in for repair last week . it was truly a thing of beauty. not easy to accommodate those boxes though . some years ago I had the vtl 5.5 and it was very enjoyable , never heard the 7.5 . there is one in UK in classifieds now for 11k

must try to get to hear some vtl sometime , we don`t hear a lot about the brand in UK but several dealers

[Redphu]

Glad I found this. I’m actually looking to upgrade my preamp. Considering the following:

CJ GAT 2
ar ref 10
DAgostino Momentum
constellation Virgo III
Merill Audio Christine

Would love more first hand experience with these preamps. Is the SE design of the CJ VAC a deal breaker as I have a balance system.

[joeinid]

What amp do you have? I forget.

VAC Master and ARC Ref 10 are spectacular. I love my GAT2 and I don’t think there’s an issue with it being RCA or single ended only unless you only have XLR inputs. I don’t like using adapters but they are an option.

I’m sure the Constellation is wonderful too. I have no experience with the Merill Audio preamp.




Glad I found this. I’m actually looking to upgrade my preamp. Considering the following:

CJ GAT 2
ar ref 10
DAgostino Momentum
constellation Virgo III
Merill Audio Christine

Would love more first hand experience with these preamps. Is the SE design of the CJ VAC a deal breaker as I have a balance system.

[XV-1]

Glad I found this. I’m actually looking to upgrade my preamp. Considering the following:

CJ GAT 2
ar ref 10
DAgostino Momentum
constellation Virgo III
Merill Audio Christine

Would love more first hand experience with these preamps. Is the SE design of the CJ VAC a deal breaker as I have a balance system.

If you get to listen to the GAT and the Momentum, please let me know your thoughts. I own the GAT, but also own the Momentum Stereo, so would luv to hear the Momentum Pre amp.

the GAT is better sounding than the Dagostino Progression pre amp when I demoed it.

[Ritmo]

The DAG Momentum HD is a great pre. Also, all of the pres you are considering are world class.

[joeinid]

My gut tells me he’s going to love the GAT2 and the music that it produces.

Please update when you can.

[Mike]

Odd, I read it as the VTL was his favorite, without actually coming out and saying it. [emoji2371]

[GSOphile]

Odd, I read it as the VTL was his favorite, without actually coming out and saying it. [emoji2371]
That was my take-away also. Interesting comparison and good job laying out factors that could bias the findings.

[joeinid]

For clarification, I was referring to Redphu liking the GAT2.


My gut tells me he’s going to love the GAT2 and the music that it produces.

Please update when you can.

[Redphu]

My brother and I sat for a couple hours with the Ref 10; with all its prowess, the smoothing effect or whatever it’s doing to my favorite singers voices, decidedly takes the Ref 10 out of the running for me. Damnit I wanted to love the Ref 10 with its gorgeous looks and it amazing control of the music in terms of imaging, dynamics (top to BOTTOM) and soundstage. Moreover, on principle alone, what with the “standard” hi tech plastic cheap shitty top and the requisite 1k for the proper metal replacements, I will NOT consider ARC products, ever. It’s such a slap in the face, me thinks.

I wanted to thank everyone for your insight, I’ll be take that leap onto the CJ sound train with a brand new unit. Now all the worlds problems on my shoulder breaking in the unit for the next 200 hours or so. Can’t wait till it arrives.

[joeinid]

Congratulations on the GAT2.

Regarding the plastic cover of the Ref 10, tests were done and it actually sounds better than the metal cover. I think it started with the Ref 40 and people realized they preferred the sound with the plastic instead of the metal.

I like the look (and sound) of the CJ more anyway.

[Redphu]

And I think the Gold would go nicely with my Pacific.

[Redphu]

For the GAT2 owners, what tubes are you using.

[joeinid]

I’m still on the stock tubes from the factory. I need to check what CJ shipped with it.

[mep]

Congratulations on the GAT2.

Regarding the plastic cover of the Ref 10, tests were done and it actually sounds better than the metal cover. I think it started with the Ref 40 and people realized they preferred the sound with the plastic instead of the metal.

I like the look (and sound) of the CJ more anyway.

Who did the testing to determine the plastic cover sounds better than the metal cover?

[joeinid]

Owners who had both.

[joeinid]

Who did the testing to determine the plastic cover sounds better than the metal cover?

Actually ARC did and mentioned by another well known reviewer here.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-reference-5-se-line-preamplifier




"The review sample's top plate was of tinted polycarbonate, with slot vents. A cover of perforated aluminum is also available, but ARC recommends the polycarbonate, perhaps because of lower chassis resonances."

[joeinid]

Also by the esteemed Richard Mak in this review.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/08/06/audio-research-reference-phono-3-review-closer-to-the-master-tape/


Quote:

"Apparently the acrylic top cover is not just to show off the workmanship, but is apparently sonically superior than a metal cover."

[joeinid]

Quote:

"The remainder of the chassis is black-anodized aluminum, with a cover of transparent polycarbonate polymer, slotted for ventilation. While the top can still be ordered in traditional aluminum, go with the acrylic -- it not only provides a bird’s-eye view of the interior, but, per ARC, it sounds better, presumably due to its antiresonant quality."


https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/119-audio-research-corporation-reference-5-preamplifier



Shall I go on?

Did you ever bother to compare the covers in any of your reviews?

[mep]

Quote:

"The remainder of the chassis is black-anodized aluminum, with a cover of transparent polycarbonate polymer, slotted for ventilation. While the top can still be ordered in traditional aluminum, go with the acrylic -- it not only provides a bird’s-eye view of the interior, but, per ARC, it sounds better, presumably due to its antiresonant quality."


https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/119-audio-research-corporation-reference-5-preamplifier



Shall I go on?

Did you ever bother to compare the covers in any of your reviews?


Thanks Joe. I wasn’t aware of that.

[joeinid]

My pleasure. :heart:


Thanks Joe. I wasn’t aware of that.

[Redphu]

Hello everyone. I finally received my GAT2 fresh from the factory. I swapped out my XLR cables for RCA connections and I’m getting a a loud static/hum. Any ideas.

[joeinid]

Please make sure that your RCA cables are properly seated. Push them all the way in and if they are locking connectors/barrels (which I don't like), make sure they are fully cinched up and tight. But not so tight that you can not get them off. Check both amp and preamp.

Congratulations on the GAT2.


Hello everyone. I finally received my GAT2 fresh from the factory. I swapped out my XLR cables for RCA connections and I’m getting a a loud static/hum. Any ideas.

[Jack]

Joe

Since he never answered the question about the amp he is using he may be using XLR to SE cables and if so have a ground loop which may require lifting the ground on one of the two pieces or running a grounding wire between them.

[Redphu]

I am using the Krell 403E amp which has both XLR and RCA connections. I failed to mention that this hum/static was also present when I switch to RCA connections on my old Krell Phantom pre but plays fine with XLR connections.

Joe I’ll try securing the RCA as suggested. Thank you.

[joeinid]

If I had hum/static, it was ALWAYS from locking connector RCAs. I hope that's what is going on here.

[Jack]

If the Krell is a fully balanced amp then you may be running into the same issue as Fremer ran into when he tried to run the fully balanced BHK amps with the SE Dart preamp. His only solution was to lift the ground on the amp end. The same thing was happening when you ran SE interconnects with the two Krell pieces.

[joeinid]

Something else to think about, with Conrad Johnson, everything should be run from one circuit to minimize any chance of mismatched grounds.

[Redphu]

@ Jack Thanks for chiming in. Can you explain lifting the ground.

I moved the router and modem further away from the preamp and Dac; Im still getting the static hum with only the PAcific Dac and hum is present whether the Pacific is ON or OFF and independent of of source selection and volume.

[Alpinist]

If the Krell is a fully balanced amp then you may be running into the same issue as Fremer ran into when he tried to run the fully balanced BHK amps with the SE Dart preamp. His only solution was to lift the ground on the amp end. The same thing was happening when you ran SE interconnects with the two Krell pieces.

Excellent information, Jack. Unfortunately the single-ended connections are an afterthought on a lot of amps these days. C-J and some other companies still do it right.

Ken

[Jack]

If unplugging the Lampi from the preamp eliminates the hum then as an interim measure you can try using a cheater plug on each of the three pieces one at a time and see if lifting the ground on one of them eliminates the hum. Are they all connected to the same circuit or conditioner?

[Redphu]

Can you recommend a cheater plug to use? Will the addition of a cheater plug have any effect on sound. Is there a permanent fix?

All the main components are connected into a single power conditioner and the powerconditioner is plugged into a dedicated furutech duplex; nothing else is plugged into the second outlet on the duplex.

[joeinid]

UL Listed 3-Prong to 2-Prong Adapter Grounding Converter - JACKYLED 3-Prong Adapter Converter Fireproof Material 200℃ Resistant Heavy Duty for Wall Outlets Household 2-Pack

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XTHWYPK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_mTCkEbGF3FSGB

[Jack]

For the purpose of testing a cheater plug is a cheater plug and they can be picked up at any hardware store and even at most "dollar" stores for less than a buck. They have no effect on the sound except to eliminate a ground loop if you have one. If your line conditioner has a ground lug then just try running a wire from the Lampi to the Line Conditioner if the cheater plug solves the problem. If the system is all plugged into the Line Conditioner which is grounded then lifting the ground on the Lampi is not an issue anyway.

[Redphu]

Still at it with the hum and it’s happening on both the PACIFIC and GGV2 using RCA. CALLING all LAMPIZATOR PACIFIC DAC local to Conrad Johnson willing to help or have an interest in how the GAT2 pairs with the Lampizator gear, Jeff is willing to test at his facility:
2800K Dorr Ave. Fairfax, VA USA 22031
phone: 703-698-8581
Please let me know.

[Jozua]

Gents

One thing I find that reviews seem to ignore is the impact of the stand on which the equipment is placed on when doing reviews.

I can change the tonality of the Ref10 by simply placing the power supply or the pre section on different isolation materials.

I would have liked some guidance from ARC what is the best platform to use- now it pot luck experimentation.

Jozua