Thread: Why does my Yamaha sound better than the Luxman 595?

what kind of test / comparison did you do ? volumes level matched ? blind / sighted ?

A lot variables and biases come into play.........

Strange combination of gear. You are comparing a 30w (8 ohm)/60w (4ohm) Class A integrated amp to a Yamaha 2 channel receiver rated at 90w into an 8 ohm load that you are using as a preamp into a Yamaha integrated amp rated at 100w into an 8 ohm load and 150w into a 4 ohm load. Your speakers are small with no real bass and are insensitive at 86dB with a nominal 4 ohm impedance. Maybe you prefer the sound of the mashup Yamaha gear you are using because you have more power and more headroom than the Luxman can provide to your 86dB/4 ohm speakers

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Speaking strictly of 4 ohms since all the amps I have do 4 ohms, and my speakers are 4 ohms....



I was wondering about this, also. But if the Luxman truly had issues trying to keep up with the Yamaha, why would I only need to raise the Luxman volume 30% to get the same loudness as the Yamaha setup which I have to set about 70%?

Possibly amplifier sensitivity for full output is lower on the Luxman gear than the Yamaha gear. It's certainly not because the Luxman is more powerful than either of your Yamaha pieces.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Same speakers were used along with same source (Sony ES CD player). Volume matches as close as possible being class A volume is much different. For Luxman, I only needed 30% volume while the Yamaha r-n2000a preamp it's around 70%.

LMAO, 'Class A' volume is different ?? 100% audiofool nonsense !!! Volume is measured in db and a meter can't tell what class of amp is being used !

I am thinking maybe you just prefer the sound of the Yamie or the speakers are not the best match for the Luxman.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Hello,

I have the Luxman 595 class A amp. I also have the Yamaha r-n2000a used as a preamp to the Yamaha AS-3200. Ether system will use the same Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers. These speakers could be considered on the bright side.

I don't know why, but the Yamaha setup(preamp and amp) sounds a bit better to me. It is more open sounding and the sound stage sounds better. The Luxman has the vocals and instruments more forward than the Yamaha, which I like alot. But the Luxman sounds more flat and closed when compared to the Yamaha setup. Why is this?

You don't need double blind listening tests and stuff. That is silly.

All amps sound different. ESPECIALLY when you are comparing a Class A amp to non-class A amp. Different amps and different brands have different voicing of their gear. That is in large part what you are hearing combined with the difference in power output (though the Luxman puts out WAY more power than it is rated for).

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Same speakers were used along with same source (Sony ES CD player). Volume matches as close as possible being class A volume is much different. For Luxman, I only needed 30% volume while the Yamaha r-n2000a preamp it's around 70%.

Hey Dman - FYI that is not how it works. Don't worry though as none of us on this forum were born knowing everything and we have all learned about hifi over time. Ignore the snarky responses and know most people on this forum are great and happy to help.

Just ignore the static on forums and enjoy the music!

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Hey Dman - FYI that is not how it works. Don't worry though as none of us on this forum were born knowing everything and we have all learned about hifi over time. Ignore the snarky responses and know most people on this forum are great and happy to help.

Just ignore the static on forums and enjoy the music!

Michael, snarky ?? , whatever, when someone comes on a makes a claim that 'Class A volume is much different' , I'm sorry but that smacks of audiofool nonsense, agreed ?

As for blind listening test and such being silly, again, whatever. But don't think for a minute that level matching volume level is silly, for if you do, look in the mirror, you'll see what silly looks like !!

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Yes, I was wondering about this also. I am thinking about buying a pair of Cornwall 4s to see how they two systems sound on the Cornwalls.

Luxman and Fyne is a killer match

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Yes, I was wondering about this also. I am thinking about buying a pair of Cornwall 4s to see how they two systems sound on the Cornwalls.

I owned Cornwall IV's and they were very good speakers. They are super efficient so the Luxman will have no issue powering them. And at the end of the day you may just prefer the sound of the Yamaha which is totally OK. There is no right or wrong as to what sound you like.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Yes, I was wondering about this also. I am thinking about buying a pair of Cornwall 4s to see how they two systems sound on the Cornwalls.

yep, easy peasy to drive for sure.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Yep, I think I have a big anxiety over this. I feel like if the amp is not for me, then I need to sell it right away to recoup it's costs before it depreciates more. But, on the other hand... if it's synergy and I just need the right speaker to make the Luxman sound better than the Yamaha, then I would regret selling it beforehand because it's limited edition and hard to find.

Synergy plays a HUGE factor. It's tough to know exactly how an amp and a speaker will gel - or not gel. If you got the Luxman used at a decent price you can probably recoup your money where it is a limited edition piece.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Just to clarify... I like the sound of the Luxman over the Yamaha AS-3200. But put the Yamaha r-n2000a as a preamp with the Yamaha-3200 and it's really impressive.

I think you need to take a step back and not rush to a judgement on which is better. Maybe spend some time this weekend with a drink, listen to music, don't over analyze and see how you like it. Sometimes in a rush to make a judgment we make it harder. I know I have certainly been there before.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Speaking strictly of 4 ohms since all the amps I have do 4 ohms, and my speakers are 4 ohms....



I was wondering about this, also. But if the Luxman truly had issues trying to keep up with the Yamaha, why would I only need to raise the Luxman volume 30% to get the same loudness as the Yamaha setup which I have to set about 70%?

Forget about Gain , best to volume match between amps , that is play the luxman at the volume it sounds best and then Play the yamaha at the same dB volume level ( not gain level ), this will eliminate the power advantages ..!


Regards

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Just to clarify... I like the sound of the Luxman over the Yamaha AS-3200. But put the Yamaha r-n2000a as a preamp with the Yamaha-3200 and it's really impressive.

I don't understand how putting an inferior piece of gear ahead of a superior piece of gear makes the superior piece sound better. Granted, the r-n2000a is a darn nice receiver, but the As-3200 is a heck of a lot better integrated amp with much better components and preamp section.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

I just realized that the Yamaha uses optical in from the cd player while the Luxman uses RCA cables. Would that have a profound effect on the Luxman not sounding as open?

profound ?, depends on your definition, regardless, any comparison that is not done with at least a semblance of 'apples-to-apples' will produce flawed results

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

I just realized that the Yamaha uses optical in from the cd player while the Luxman uses RCA cables. Would that have a profound effect on the Luxman not sounding as open?

Usually the coaxial digital connection as you are using on the Luxman is the preferred connection.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

I just realized that the Yamaha uses optical in from the cd player while the Luxman uses RCA cables. Would that have a profound effect on the Luxman not sounding as open?

Did you hook your system up or did someone else hook it up?

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

I just checked and I did not see a coaxial connection on there. Are you sure the 595 has one?

No I thought you are using an optical digital cable on one and a coaxial digital on the other.
I realize now that you mean you are using an optical digital output to the input of your Yamaha , but on the Luxman amp you are using analog RCA cables from the output of the CD player into it.
That being the case it is possible that the sound could be quite different. In the Yamaha version you are not using the internal DAC in the CDP as you are using a digital output. By using an analog input into the Luxman amp you will be using the internal DAC of the CDP.

So yes this could definitely change the sound as each DAC may sound different and you are not just comparing the sound of the amps as you judge each set-up.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Question please.... With the Yamaha r-n2000a, it has a dedicated dub line out. I have a REL t/7x sub. I can hear it really good on low volume on the Yamaha...I have the crossover at 30% and vol at 40%. But if I use the pre out on the Luxman, I have to turn the sub's volume and cross over up like 60% and even then it's not as clean sounding as when using the sub line out of the Yamaha. Why is this?

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Does your Yamaha have a built in sub crossover that may be turned on?

You should NOT be turning up the crossover frequency - you want to keep it as low as possible. As for the volume on the sub, your Yamaha may be boosting the sub volume at low volume levels.

I mean this with the utmost respect - but I think the Luxman may have been too big a jump too quickly. You should not be comparing it to the Yamaha in any way as one is an audiophile integrated and one you are using is an audio/video receiver.

If you like the Yamaha - and there is nothing wrong with that - then you should probably stay with it.

I'm going to suggest you find a high end shop in your area, build a relationship, buy from them and let them come help you get it set up correctly and find the right piece that will fulfill all your needs.

Again - I mean this all with respect but you are going to drive yourself nuts and you won't find any happiness this way.

Using analog outputs from a 90's Sony CDP is certainly not giving the Lux the quality signal it deserves and I'd say is the reason for your not being fully happy with the sound. You seem to have the budget buy yourself a nice Streamer with a DAC, Lumin, Esoteric, Aurender etc. You could just buy a DAC then use the Sony as a transport like you do to the Yamaha.

I don't have hands on experience with your Luxman it does look to have a nice size power supply and shouldn't have any difficulty driving most speakers within reason.

If you could borrow a quality DAC you can go optical from the Sony into the DAC then RCA from the DAC to the Luxman. If not familiar with the DAC this could be just another variable but you'd at least het to hear the Luxman at a more fair comparison.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Thanks, you're correct. I have on order a ever solo z8 streamer that I'm going to use. But it's going to take a couple of weeks.

So, I really haven't heard the luxman 595 as I should. I also want Mcintosh 12000 and I feel some buyers remorse even though I haven't really heard the 595 as I should.

Hi - again - I mean this to help as I have made the same mistakes I see you making. You seem to simply be buying for the sake of buying with no plan.

Why would you put that DAC with a Macintosh or even a Luxman? What are the speakers you own? What are the cables you run? How is your room set up?

I'm going to say it again - I suggest you put purchases on pause until you come up with a more holistic way to approach this so that you don't end up wasting money and having more frustration.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

Hi - again - I mean this to help as I have made the same mistakes I see you making. You seem to simply be buying for the sake of buying with no plan.

Why would you put that DAC with a Macintosh or even a Luxman? What are the speakers you own? What are the cables you run? How is your room set up?

I'm going to say it again - I suggest you put purchases on pause until you come up with a more holistic way to approach this so that you don't end up wasting money and having more frustration.

Agree 100%. Throwing money at a problem without a plan, is basically frustration in action.

I'm not familiar with Ever. That Luxman looks to be a special piece, I'd give it a chance. Especially if you've not had it long, break in is real. I recently purchased my Esoteric N05xd, I was going to give it back to the dealer, luckily we couldn't get back together for a couple more days where I continued to put time on it, the unit began to sound better over that time.

Some debate break in but me personally I have sent a few pieces back because I just wasn't happy after allowing time. So if I end up liking a piece, it changed, not me. If something continues to annoy you don't just get used to it.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Thanks, you're correct. I have on order a ever solo z8 streamer that I'm going to use. But it's going to take a couple of weeks.

So, I really haven't heard the luxman 595 as I should. I also want Mcintosh 12000 and I feel some buyers remorse even though I haven't really heard the 595 as I should.

You say the shop is local, why not take your Luxman in and have a comparison on the Focal speakers against the Mac? If that's possible be sure the shop uses same CDP or DAC on both amps. This would mean bypassing the 12000's internal DAC. In order to make a decision everything should be as same as possible.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Thanks, I am new to this hobby and still trying to figure things out. For instance, a local hifi shop has a McIntosh 1200 and Focal Kanta 2 speakers that I like. But that shop does not have luxmans to compare against or Cornwall 4 speakers to compare with. The only thing I can think of is just buying the equipment and if it does not sound right, send it back or sale it. Is there a better way to go about that?

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Because I still cannot cross shop the speakers.

Cornwall IV's are going to be a VERY different sound than what you have. They are not designed to have pinpoint imaging or the very last piece of detail in the music/sound staging. They are designed to be easy to place and have a larger than life "you are there" feel to them.

I LOVED my pair and are only bettered by the La Scala's I upgraded to. They are smooth, non-fatiguing, amazing dynamics and and have a real rawness of emotion few others can match with fantastically low distortion. They are also super efficient to drive and anything with more than 2 watts (yes 2) will make them sing.

There are MANY good speakers, but you'll need to decide what sound you like. To change amp, speakers and more all at the same time without knowing what sold you like can be a challenge.

Even if it is a several hour drive, you should audition the gear first.

I don't understand what you mean. The purpose of taking your Luxman into the store is simply to compare it to the 12000. If the chain is the same and all that changes is the two amps then you get an idea of how the two compare to each other. It's not to buy or compare Focals or whatever. It's simply for you to know if you like the 12000 more than the Luxman.

You were talking about "what can you do", "should Isell this or that, buy this or that", I'm finding your responses confusing, random. Michael gave you good advice. However, you can't make a decision without some information or experience with the gear.

Why did you buy the Luxman in the first place? What makes you want a 12000? Is the 12000 just something you randomly picked? If moving to Cornwalls you wouldn't need as much power as the 12000. The Luxman is a limited edition and if you sell it then find you made a mistake you may not get one again. Digital has come a long way since the 90's and you admit you didn't hear the Lux in its best yet seem to be bent on selling it.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Because I still cannot cross shop the speakers.

Another thing to try that I think would be telling. Take your Sony and connect it to the 3200 using the RCA's. Same way you connected to the Luxman. Then see how the two compare.

If you liked the 12000 & the Focal, that's a clue. Maybe that should be one of your systems.

If you liked the Luxman with Wilson is there a way to hear Wilson with your 595? If you like Wilson my bet is you'd like B&W. Not that they sound the same but to my ears they are more similar than different in a general way. I also like B&W with Mac, way more than with SF.

Originally Posted by Dman777dman777

Oh, I see what you mean. That is a good idea. However, I will still wonder about the synergy of the B&Ws with the 2 amps that I would not be able to compare.

Good question... I heard the Luxman 590 AXII on 20k Wilson speakers in a hi fi shop and loved the sound. I cross compared to the Luxman 507z on the same Wilson speakers and found the class A much more exciting. With that, I figured the 595 would be 'even better' and that is why I bought it.

I went to a difff. hi fi shop and heard this unit with Focal tower speakers (I think around 6k) and really liked the sound. I also thought the 12000 looked uber cool. And I like it has a EQ.

Very good point, thanks!

My ultimate goal is to have 2 separate 2 channel systems and speakers. And I would listen to ether system depending on my mood. However, I found I like the Yamaha's a lot and I might have 3 systems in the long run? I planned on selling the Yamahas later down the road but now I do not know. They sound really good depending on the source and recording. On the other hand, it feels financially irresponsible to have 3 systems like that so I don't know. I mean I can afford it, but I could have just one system instead and have the rest of that money in stocks.