Ugly but beautiful sounds....Grandinote Audio from Italy

**Paul** · September 27, 2014, 09:26 PM

I still can't believe this is made from Italy....but the sounds was excellent.

Anyone own them or any experience ?

Grandinote Shinai has refined and charming sound of Magnetosolid® amplifiers.
Supreme musical characteristics of Prestigio, dual case 60W amplifier, are transferred in this little masterpiece of 37W for channel.
In summary, these are two mono units, enclosed in a single chassis.
Requires two power cables.
Stereo integrated amplifier
Power for channel 37W
Damping factor >150
Frequency response 2Hz - 240 kHz
Two unbalanced inputs RCA
Two balanced inputs XLR (full-balanced)
Balanced inputs XLR unbalanced convertibles
Class "A"
No feedback
Direct coupling stages: no capacitor used
Full-dualmono
Absorption 270W
Weight 40kg
W=318 x H=196 x L=473 [mm]
Grandinote's warranty of 5 years

**joeinid** · September 27, 2014, 10:13 PM

I like the way it looks Paul. Have you heard it?

**blackdog** · September 27, 2014, 10:16 PM

A local dealer I visit every Saturday has had one of these hooked up for months. I think it's one of the best amps in his store.
Beautifully made, dead quiet, and very sweet sounding. It ain't inexpensive though.

**Paul** · September 27, 2014, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I like the way it looks Paul. Have you heard it?

Yes Joe. The sounds was very delicious.
here is the pic of amp drive the DeVore O93 .

It reminds me the 220V transformer Stabilizer LOL

**Paul** · September 27, 2014, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by blackdog

A local dealer I visit every Saturday has had one of these hooked up for months. I think it's one of the best amps in his store.
Beautifully made, dead quiet, and very sweet sounding. It ain't inexpensive though.

Dan, Indeed It ain't inexpensive

**blackdog** · September 27, 2014, 11:45 PM

I see we've seen it at the same dealer.
You should hear it drive the Audio Physic Virgos

**MikeCh** · September 28, 2014, 12:30 AM

Hi Paul,

I listened to the Grandinote Shinai powering the Audio Physic Avantera Plus+ at RMAF 2013.

It was a great combination to my ears.

**Paul** · September 28, 2014, 01:07 AM

Good to know Mike. Wondering how its gonna sounds with my Westies

**Adrian Low** · September 28, 2014, 10:23 AM

Hi Paul. I had to laugh when I read your sentence "I still can't believe this is made from Italy".

May be off topic, but why do so much of the products in our industry have to look so "workmanlike", to be kind, or in extreme cases, so ugly? Admittedly it seems to be getting better; more manufacturers are paying attention to the style, and as importantly, the functionality. But so many are still made with "faces only a mother would love".

I totally understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you can't please everyone. BUT. There are certainly many products that appeal to a larger percentage.

Anyway, love to hear your feedback re the amps Paul.

**CPP** · September 28, 2014, 02:14 PM

Interesting, looks like a piece of transmission test gear we used to use during my days at Bell Labs/ATT/Lucent

**Etunes** · September 28, 2014, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

I still can't believe this is made from Italy....but the sounds was excellent.

Anyone own them or any experience ?

Grandinote Shinai has refined and charming sound of Magnetosolid® amplifiers.
Supreme musical characteristics of Prestigio, dual case 60W amplifier, are transferred in this little masterpiece of 37W for channel.
In summary, these are two mono units, enclosed in a single chassis.
Requires two power cables.
Stereo integrated amplifier
Power for channel 37W
Damping factor >150
Frequency response 2Hz - 240 kHz
Two unbalanced inputs RCA
Two balanced inputs XLR (full-balanced)
Balanced inputs XLR unbalanced convertibles
Class "A"
No feedback
Direct coupling stages: no capacitor used
Full-dualmono
Absorption 270W
Weight 40kg
W=318 x H=196 x L=473 [mm]
Grandinote's warranty of 5 years

The Bricasti M1 would go nicely with these amps .

**hifinutt** · May 6, 2017, 02:42 PM

now I know this thread is a few years old but I recently heard this brand and extremely impressed . this is some of my thoughts :

sometime ago i heard the integrated version of grandinote , the shinai with some heco direkt speakers. the bass was extremely gripping . in fact with a track from interstellar the sofa was shaking with thunder from them . so the interest was stirred well these solid state amplifiers are from Italy . this is from hifipigs review of the proemio /silva
"grandinote are based in Italy and headed up by Massimiliano Magri. The company use a technology they call Magnetosolid where solid state components are used in circuits more typical of valve amplifiers. Grandinote say this offers the advantages of both solid state and tube amplifiers. All the low signal stages in the amps are direct coupled without capacitors and every device has its own dedicated power supply. All their amplifiers run in Class A. "

so I have the pre amp [ there is a higher one , heaven knows what that sounds like !!!] which is the proemio which is around 7.5k playing into a msb class A amp . they fit like a glove .
the dislikes first , not too keen on the remote which compared to my rugged bel canto feels slightly unsubstantial . neither does it have theatre bypass which is good to have to integrate into an AV system . however its only 15 kg , built like a tank with beautiful finish and extremely easy to use . you can move swiftly from one input to another with the remote which goes up in increments and easy to control
connecting with a modest reference fidelity rca interconnect with the msb . the first thing I notice is my chair can feel the vibration from the music at pretty low volumes . I might just struggle to use this combo with those lovely Kudos titan 707 methinks !!! however the verity audio Rienzi just rock beautifully with controlled bass that is pretty delightful. the main thing that really strikes you is strings sound like they have been plucked by a gladiator ....they really ping..... . piano has a lovely timbre .
listening to a fantastic electrnic album from otarion called monument , the vocal harmonies are very compelling and cymbals and bells so realistic .

I played this pre amp for over a month and found it very compelling . I have previously enjoyed some arc ref 5 and 5se preamps . I normally use modwright 36.5dm pre

highly recommended , I currently have the shinai integrated to play with but waiting for that to bed in before I form an opinion

**joeinid** · May 6, 2017, 02:56 PM

Welcome to the forum hifinutt, thank you for joining.

**hifinutt** · May 6, 2017, 02:58 PM

thanks so much joe

**Audiophon** · May 8, 2017, 05:51 AM

Just yesterday Max from Grandinote passed by to install my new Demons mono amps. The amps are brand new (Max did even forget to write the serial number on the back ;-)) and not broken in at all.

We did anyway together with another friend of mine a long series of comparisons to my Pass XA 100.5.

What to say... after 7 years with the Pass in my system, thereof 3 with my current speakers, the difference was noticeable right from the first note:

Instruments and voices were much better differentiated from each other, everything sounded clearer more transparent and yet with a wonderful musical flow. We mostly played hires files from the server and the better the recording was, the clearer differences became.

Another difference that I recognised was that the softness of the Pass in the treble was gone with the Grandinote. The Demons seemed to resolve detail much better. If in the past I sometimes felt my system to have a too relaxt sound, now it was just right!

Overall I would say that the tonal balance did not change much compared to the Pass. Which is a good thing! In addition, the bass seemed to be better differentiated with the Demone, but I will do a follow up on that point once they are fully broken in.

Last but not least: I have to say that I like the looks actually better than I initially thought... even if they are not beauties but in reality they are quite classy and elegantly looking...

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**Audiophon** · May 8, 2017, 05:57 AM

..still boxed

Getting accustomed to the sound with the Pass before changing....

Connected and ready for the comparison...

Max is connecting the Demone...

Relaxing with the new setup...

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**hifinutt** · May 8, 2017, 08:38 AM

thats fantastic . so glad to hear your experinces and I recognise everything you say . there is tremendous clarity and separation in instruments and the bass is so controlled .

one thing I would like max to do is get a better translator for the English manual . this is an excerpt and its not easy to understand what he means sometimes

"This function is for the turn off the display in automatic, if the display don't changes for some seconds. When the utente press a button, the display turns on. So, when the display don't will change again, the display will turn off again. The "black" display is rapresented in this picture"

and

The up rappresentation is for the same level for the two channels: the balance is totally excluded. "

I used the proemio with my superb msb class A s200 and the realism and control was brilliant . now I am playing the shinai which is also good and very enjoyable but not quite as good as the proemio/msb combo . but then there is a difference in price . the shinai costs £9700 and the proemio/msb combo is about £25000

**hifinutt** · May 8, 2017, 09:11 AM

audiophon, I wondered if you had had a chance to compare the proemio with the domino ? its quite annoying in the uk as since we decided to leave the EU prices have gone up and now the domino is 11k which is nearing arc ref 6 level

**Melbguy1** · May 8, 2017, 10:30 AM

Ugly? No fugly!

.

**Audiophon** · May 8, 2017, 11:36 AM

@hifinut: no I went straight away with the Domino. The only thing I can say is that in 2010 I decided to sell my arc ref 3 in order to go directly from my DCS into the Pass as I preferred the direct way due to the increased transparency.

Then 1,5 years ago I decided to try the Domino and noticed a big improvement WITH the preamp.

Here in Italy, the Domino is 12,900 Euro. Therefore about the same price as in U.K.

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**hifinutt** · May 8, 2017, 12:23 PM

ah understood , thanks . I have tried my bel canto dac direct into my power amp but always prefer a pre amp . perhaps one day I will get to try the domino

**Paul** · May 8, 2017, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Audiophon

..still boxed

Getting accustomed to the sound with the Pass before changing....

Connected and ready for the comparison...

Max is connecting the Demone...

Relaxing with the new setup...

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OMG !!! This is amazing. ! Some one has good taste !

**Audiophon** · May 8, 2017, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

ah understood , thanks . I have tried my bel canto dac direct into my power amp but always prefer a pre amp . perhaps one day I will get to try the domino

Maybe I should not tell you, but Grandinote will present a new top-of-the line preamp at the Munich fair above the current Domino. So maybe somebody will sell his Domino in the next months to come

Ugly but beautiful sounds....Grandinote Audio from Italy

P.S. I'm not referring to me ;-)

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**hifinutt** · May 8, 2017, 12:57 PM

ah yes , thanks I knew that . the genesi pre . pretty high price too . I believe max has taken an apartment to show that off with his new speakers and the demone amps

**Zaheer** · May 8, 2017, 07:16 PM

hello my friend .. I guess that you'll soon leave the modwrights
Cheers

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 04:38 AM

maybe not , modwright is extremely well known and loved . which is important when it comes to upgrading . its extremely hard to sell hi fi kit and so one has to be VERY careful what you buy . both the proemio and the 36.5 dm have good qualities and similar resolving and transparent sound . the modwright also has home theater bypass and they are very good value for money .

however if I had the funds I might just consider the domino which I imagine is a leap in performance from the dm . however at that level audio ref 6 is the same price and that's one heck of a pre amp

**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Audiophon

Maybe I should not tell you, but Grandinote will present a new top-of-the line preamp at the Munich fair above the current Domino. So maybe somebody will sell his Domino in the next months to come

P.S. I'm not referring to me ;-)

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Audiophon what was your forum handle before you changed it to Audiophon? I recall that it was diffeent, but cant remember exactly what...Isophon maybe? Am I mistaken?

The tech on those amps look very interesting.

**Audiophon** · May 9, 2017, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Audiophon what was your forum handle before you changed it to Audiophon? I recall that it was diffeent, but cant remember exactly what...Isophon maybe? Am I mistaken?

The tech on those amps look very interesting.

I never changed my nick here in the forum, neither did I call myself Isophon in another forum. But you're not too wrong: my nick Audiohon goes back to the time when I had Isophon speakers and Audionet electronics ;-) ...

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**wisnon** · May 9, 2017, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Audiophon

I never changed my nick here in the forum, neither did I call myself Isophon in another forum. But you're not too wrong: my nick Audiohon goes back to the time when I had Isophon speakers and Audionet electronics ;-) ...

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OK, ringing a bell. Gauder is ex-Isophon, no?

**Audiophon** · May 9, 2017, 10:25 AM

Correct! He was allowed to use the old brand name when he was still using Isophon chassis. Then he switched from Isophon to Accuton chassis and consequently also changed the brand name.

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**Golum** · May 9, 2017, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by hifinutt

... however at that level audio ref 6 is the same price and that's one heck of a pre amp

Would love to hear your impressions on DM vs. Ref 6

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 12:56 PM

some pics of the proemio with the verity speakers

**hifinutt** · May 9, 2017, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Golum

Would love to hear your impressions on DM vs. Ref 6

never heard the ref 6 but I had ref 5 and ref 5se . the 5se is most certainly better for realism and sense of presence but it costs more than the dm

**Kuoppis** · May 9, 2017, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Audiophon

Love the Berlinas with the Demones. That's a combination I would like to hear.

What's you initial impression...

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**Audiophon** · May 9, 2017, 05:23 PM

If you come to Italy, I'll be happy to host you!

The first thing I noticed is that the Demone have the same sonic signature as the Domino preamp: the sound is incredibly natural and transparent. Instruments and voices are much (!) better delineated in space. Around them there is much more air, probably due to the very low noise floor. I very much felt the sense of being there...

Another point I noticed is that I was relaxing too much with my previous Pass ;-) - the sound was very relaxt with a rounded top-end. The Demone are more open at the top-end, more detailed. This is a much better fit with the diamond tweeters of the Berlina which are not "hot" like the diamond tweeters of many of the B&W 800D3 series. For me it feels like more than the 5 points difference that the German Audio magazin assigned to both power-amps.

Last year during the Munich fair, I talked to Gauder about the right amplification choice for his speakers (unfortunately I don't like at all the AVM - Gauder combination, Vitus is a much better match to my ears, no doubt!), I asked if he knew Grandinote. He told me that some months ago Johannes Maier (a reviewer of the Audio Magazin specialised in amplification) called him up and told him to come and listen to some unknown power amps they had currently under review, partially with the Berlina RC 7 MkII (that they were reviewing too in the same period). The reviewer and Gauder were both very much impressed by the Grandinote.

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**hifinutt** · May 16, 2017, 01:51 PM

so , having tried the grandinote proemio pre with my msb s200 and finding it rather good . . I had the shinai here for a week . another audiophile has said : "The bass end with the Grandinote is powerful and detailed but not overbearing. Note delineation is superb and the timbre is excellent. Instruments in the bass region are fleshed out and full sounding and have realistic impact. There is, for want of a better word texture to the low end.

The midrange is simply gorgeous, vocals both male and female are rendered realistically. There is a warmth to the midrange but not at the expense of detail, subtle breathing and vocal inflections are easily heard and sound very natural. Instruments in this range are also beautifully reproduced especially brass which has realistic sheen and force but never produces the shrill sound that other amplifiers can. This is sound that never goes through you or makes you jump for the volume control.

The Grandinote also made the slightly incisive treble quality mentioned earlier a thing of the past. Delightfully detailed and natural on the treble range but performing that clever trick of smoothness with no lack of detail or impact. Cymbals are reproduced with just the right amount of fizz when required and fully revealed decay.

The retrieval of recorded detail is exceptional but it isn't forced or false, the music simply unfolds into the room very naturally. "

most certainly applies .

just right now I do think the proemio/msb combo is better but then that costs around 24k and the shinai around 9.7k

**Audiophon** · May 16, 2017, 03:06 PM

Thank you hifinutt for your impressions! If we consider that the cost of the Proemio alone is just 2k below the price of the Shinai, it's a pretty good result for the Shinai - and you can keep your MBS ;-)

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**hifinutt** · May 17, 2017, 04:38 AM

yes i could happily live with the shinai ! but its great to play with pre and power to experiment

**Nikhil** · May 22, 2017, 06:02 AM

Martin,

I missed this thread as I was travelling for the past two weeks.
Impressive to know that these amps outclass the Pass mono-blocks. Subscribed!

You also have a great system. Do you now have the new crossover upgrade that you were talking about?

Regards.

**Audiophon** · May 22, 2017, 06:55 AM

Hi Nikhil, I hope you had a safe trip home!

Yes, really incredible that - for my ears - the Grandinote are that superior to my Pass. Sunday I met a reviewer for the German online HiFi Magazin Hifistatement. He also had in his private system Pass amplifiers that he swapped against Grandinote.

The German print magazin Audio, are ranking the Grandinote higher than the 100.5 and the 100.8!

So I guess I'm not the only one. ;-)

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**Nikhil** · May 22, 2017, 07:01 AM

Thanks Martin! Yes just got back this morning.
Comparing favorably against the Pass 100.x is something to think about.

Looks like I have to make some time for a visit to Italy on my next trip!

**Audiophon** · May 22, 2017, 08:59 AM

Absolutely! Just to let you know: also my friend Claudio who heard the Grandinote on Saturday for the first time now wants to sell his MC-601 ;-)

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**Audiophon** · May 22, 2017, 09:02 AM

About the update of my speakers: I arranged with Gauder that they will pick up the speakers the last days before I leave for the summer holidays. They'll send the speakers back the first week after my holidays, so I won't be too long without music.

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**Nikhil** · May 22, 2017, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Audiophon

Absolutely! Just to let you know: also my friend Claudio who heard the Grandinote on Saturday for the first time now wants to sell his MC-601 ;-)

That is pretty impressive again.
You also have the advantage of a close support from Grandinote.

Do you know how the audition went off with Clement Perry?
Too bad we missed getting to meet Max for dinner.
And even more that we did not take you up on your invitation to audition the amps after the show.

**Audiophon** · May 23, 2017, 05:54 PM

Two pics from the Grandinote presentation in a Hotel room in Munich during the show:

Unfortunately I don't know how to upload videos...

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**Audiophon** · May 23, 2017, 05:57 PM

The guy in the front row is my friend Claudio who decided to sell all his McIntosh stuff (C500T & C500P + MC601) and get Grandinote amplifiers to power his WP Sasha .... it was the first time he heard Grandinote!

Just today he dropped a downpayment on a pair of Demone ;-)

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**hifinutt** · May 30, 2017, 07:25 AM

wow ! keep us posted

**Audiophon** · May 30, 2017, 08:50 AM

Last night my friend installed the Demone in his system consisting (still) of the McIntosh C500T preamp and the WA Sasha.

The first comments he sent me were: "great wonderful sound, very dynamic and natural!"

Considering that he formerly used the McIntosh MC 601 (and before the MC 501) with 600 watt per channel compared to now 60 watt per channel, calling them very dynamic that's an incredible compliment!

For me, what describes best the Grandinote sound is "natural".

He told me that there were no compatibility issues to pair the Demone with the C500T preamp.

...but now my friend will anyway order also the Domino and the Celio preamps ;-)

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**Audiophon** · May 30, 2017, 09:01 AM

BTW you can still see the MC 601 in the left corner behind the speakers ;-)

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**hifinutt** · May 30, 2017, 11:07 AM

funnily enough , a few years back I nearly bought a c500t pre but was put of by 2 big boxes . it was a bargain though

Thread: Ugly but beautiful sounds....Grandinote Audio from Italy