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April 23, 2021, 04:03 AM #1
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Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Hello,
I am posting this on behalf of a friend who is interested in a tube amp (preferably low wattage SETs) for his brand new Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD speakers.
If you have heard or own these speakers, please chime in with your fav amp combo with these speakers.
Currently top of his list is the Luxman MQ-300 which I suggested, has anyone heard this combo?
His preamp is Pass Labs Xp-32 I think.
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April 23, 2021, 05:07 AM #2
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Viva too.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
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April 23, 2021, 06:38 AM #3
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Dennis Had 300b-v
Absolutely wonderful.Industry Disclosure: Owner Epiphanic Audio. Bespoke 2 channel resource in Virginia Beach VA. Dealer for darTZeel and other great brands.
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April 23, 2021, 01:26 PM #4
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Have you asked your friend why he is particularly interested in tube SETs? I use Avantgarde Duo XDs and moved away from tubes to SS 3 years ago and no regrets for doing so. I now listen to far more music and the sound is at least as good as from my SETs. He should keep an open mind regarding amplifier type and (this is hugely important) he should arrange home trials of a dozen or so amps of various technologies before deciding which sounds best with his Mezzos. In my own case I borrowed several amps but bought used examples of other likely candidates, so lost little if anything on resale. I doubt he will settle on SETs. If he does, perhaps those with 845 or 211 output tubes will offer excellent sound. Very low power ones (PX-25, 45, 2A3, etc) may sound great (perhaps even sublime) with relatively light music, but may be out of their depth with big orchestral stuff.
Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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April 23, 2021, 01:47 PM #5
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
The strength with SET is how it blends bass and Mids, the jump and speed factor is from that position so if your SET is not doing bass its a waste to me , this was also confirmed when i had the opportunity to hear AG horns with SET and PP toobs and with SS . With Toobs the SET magic was lost and no better than PP Toobs , actually less so due to power output ..
Regards
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April 23, 2021, 03:33 PM #6
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Assuming a proper system-to-room setup, I still recommend Vivas from a fairly large amount of personal experience. Are they the best - in terms of being the most technically accurate - I doubt it.
Where they seem to excel is in a much higher ME factor. In this case, ME = Musical EngagementDPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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April 23, 2021, 08:05 PM #7
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Love the oomph of an 845 SET. The best of both worlds. Magical midrange and bass control.
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April 23, 2021, 10:14 PM #8
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Using the high-level inputs on the XD series AGs I found the sub-bass took on the character of the main amp very well. You could easily hear the diff in bass character going from a 300B to PP tubes, to SS etc. It was uncanny really. I never tried the XLR inputs for the subs that runs off the preamp output, in which case you prob would hear a discontinuity. After 8 mos. and experimenting with several amps, I found the LTA ZOTL10 to be the best match with Uno Finos and tie for 2nd between the Valvet e2 and KR Audio VT20. The most disappointing match was a 300B amp with 16 ohm taps. the sound was thick, veiled, slow, colored...did I mention rolled off?
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April 24, 2021, 11:09 AM #9
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
+1 on the VIVA. Classico 300B Integrated sounds great on my Mezzo's in a fairly large room and I haven't even tried rolling tubes.
The amp section alone can be run with the Pass, but, while not apples to oranges, I found the VIVA's pre- section preferable to using my EMM DAC's built-in Pre.
Parker
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April 25, 2021, 01:13 PM #10
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
For me, it would be Viva or Wavac.
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April 25, 2021, 07:12 PM #11
Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I used Audio Tekne’s IT 2 integrated amp with my Duo’s. Absolutely no tube sound, very clear opened live sound.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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April 29, 2021, 09:50 PM #12
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April 30, 2021, 01:42 AM #13
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I own 2014 Duo Mezzo's non HD. I own Audiopax 88 Mk2s, Nagra VPAs, and am currently running AudioNote UK Shinris.
I've also demo'd in my system, Luxman KT 88 limited edition (not bad, but kind of thick sounding compared to the Audiopax 88s), Dartzeel integrated (SS) (very good) and the Audio Research GS150 (surprisingly quiet and very good sounding), First Watt J2 (Meh midrange, thin sounding, but pretty good bass and highs)
The Nagra's are 60 watt PP 845s, and very good, with amazing bass. They sound however, very slightly tip up on the Duo's. They were really designed for 87 db Wilsons so are kind of overkill with the 107db Duo's. On the other hand, I much preferred their sound over the 8 wat Shinris on a friends 96 DB ANE speakers.
The Audiopax 88 are dead quiet, very good sounding but don't go as deep as the Nagra's. They were one of the favorite combos with Avantgarde back in the early 2000s and are still a very good match especially at their current used prices.
The Shinri's are a very rare and expensive almost top of the AN UK line 8 watt SE 300B Monoblock from Audio Note UK.
I thought i needed more power based on my experience with the 30 Watt Audiopax amps but was simply stunned when i tried them with the Duo's. All the deep bass I could ever want, very extended and silky highs and the most amazing mid range. I routinely listen to 100 plus DB rock and orchestral music and the 8 watt Shinri's have never run out of gas.
I ended up buying them and will be selling my AudioPax and Nagra VPAs (unless I get a second system with lower efficiency speakers).
So while the conventional wisdom is that 8 watt 300B are compressed bandwidth and syrupy, if you can get your hands on the Shinris they are a better match with the 107 DB Duo's than their own 96 DB Speakers. The Shinris are very expensive but still cheaper than the Viva Auroras, and they only weigh about 35 lbs each compared to 100lb VivaAvantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 01:53 AM #14
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- Jun 2017
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- SoCal
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Duplicate post
Last edited by mallen123; April 30, 2021 at 01:55 AM. Reason: duplicate post
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 01:54 AM #15
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- Jun 2017
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- SoCal
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I havnt heard the Vivas but have a friend with Trio's who loves his 20 watt Auroras, He preferred them over my Audiopax 88s that he borrowed. But they are $50k amps new and maybe $15k for older used ones.
I think the AudioPax MKII at $5k used are pretty hard to beat for Avantgardes but Viva Auroras or AN UK Shinris are better if price is no object.Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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April 30, 2021, 02:04 AM #16
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I had the low-gain (low noise) Audio Note Conqueror which is their stereo 300b on the Uno Finos and wasn't moved at all, albeit it was less slow and flabby sounding than the Allnic 300b I had on hand. The AN rep recommended the Empress, a parallel 2A3 mono which put out 8 WPC. It piqued my curiosity the more we discussed it, the 2A3 tube is supposedly 'faster' and more extended on top.
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April 30, 2021, 06:42 AM #17
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
DPT4ME - Dynamics, Presence & Tone for Musical Engagement; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Omega & Sigma USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Aqua La Scala II Optologic DAC; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; Ayre Codex dac - updated; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amp; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamp, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Quicksilver Mid Mono amps w/Gold Lion KT77s; Fyne Audio 703s; Symposium Svelte Plus & Ultra Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.
www.getbettersound.com
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April 30, 2021, 10:49 AM #18
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- Jun 2017
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- SoCal
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Shinris are Mono blocks and completely different designs both from a circuit design and quality of parts than the much lower priced Conqueror. The Shinri Monos retail for $36000 and you'd be hard pressed to find them anywhere used.
Shinri's lack for nothing on top especially with a higher end 300B tube like the AN 4300E, Elrogs
or the Tatsukis.Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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May 1, 2021, 06:10 AM #19
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I am using SET Ayon Crossfire - first with Duo Omega G2 and then Duo Mezzo XD - for 11 years.
Now after the upgrade with Mundorf capacitors model III which I have for 7 years is even better and remains the main amp for my setup with Trios LE 26 and REL Special Carbon subs.
As a second amp I have a new Polish brand - Circle Labs A100.
Imho Ayon is a perfect match with AG speakers.
Audiopax is not represented in Poland though.
Crossfire III exists also as a power amp.Aurender W20->Lampizator Pacific SE/Audio Aero La Fontaine->Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100-> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26, 4x REL Carbon Special Subwoofers
Analog : Fat Bob S with SME 5, Shelter Harmony, Tom Evans Groove+ SRX mk2, Muarah PSC with InteliClamp
cabling: Duelund DCA 16GA, Acrolink, Vovox, Siltech, Transparent, Audio Phase , NxLT The Flame, FTA Callisto and Sinope usb, Fadel Art , Argentum , REL Bassline Blue
HT : Sony HW 50 ES, Oppo 93 EU, Darbee DVP-5000 ,Yamaha Aventage RX-A 3010 , B&W 9.1, screen 120 inches matt white
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May 1, 2021, 12:09 PM #20
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- Jun 2017
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- 53
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo,
Nagra VPA 845 mono blocks, Audio Note UK Shinri 300B mono blocks, AudioPax KT88 monoblocks
Conrad Johnson GAT, Zesto Tessera
Esoteric K-01X, Esoteric N-01,
Clearaudio Innovation TT,Graham Phantom 2 Supreme Arm/Ortofon Anna, Bobs Sky 2 SUTClearaudio Universal Arm/Benz LPS
Minus K isolation platformGraham Phantom Elite Arm/Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement,
Galibier TT,
Kubala Elation Cabling, Shunyata Trident 3, Typhon QR
Zoethecus stands,
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May 1, 2021, 12:20 PM #21
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
My Crossfire III is integrated. There is also Evo version of both integrated and monoblocks.
I want to keep 3 sources and integrated amp is the best solution in my living room.
I tried many different SS amp designs , PP tube and even OTL, power amps and monos and I liked Crossfire III . Also because of the fact that my system is tuned carefuly with this amp .
As far as I know Caelin Gabriel uses Crossfire Evo monos in his system.
Amplifiers – Ayon AudioAurender W20->Lampizator Pacific SE/Audio Aero La Fontaine->Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100-> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26, 4x REL Carbon Special Subwoofers
Analog : Fat Bob S with SME 5, Shelter Harmony, Tom Evans Groove+ SRX mk2, Muarah PSC with InteliClamp
cabling: Duelund DCA 16GA, Acrolink, Vovox, Siltech, Transparent, Audio Phase , NxLT The Flame, FTA Callisto and Sinope usb, Fadel Art , Argentum , REL Bassline Blue
HT : Sony HW 50 ES, Oppo 93 EU, Darbee DVP-5000 ,Yamaha Aventage RX-A 3010 , B&W 9.1, screen 120 inches matt white
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May 3, 2021, 12:50 PM #22
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- Aug 2018
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Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
This is my friend's reply:
"I’m presently using a First Watt F3 amp and find the sound thin and the highs a bit too hot and over the top. My pre is the erstwhile top of line Pass XP-30 not 32 but that’s a v. minor difference there. I’ve tried my 20 yr old Audio Note parallel 300B P4 upgraded (then) SET monos outputting 17w but find the noise level (hum) too high to live with at 107 db. The sound is a bit bloated too.
I’ve tried my DIY SET 2A3 monos (based on the Baby Ongaku Gordon Rankin’s design (but unfortunately with a non silver Magnaquest output transformers). They sound better but the same hum problem exists.
The Musical Engagement factor ME as Jim Smith says is more important to me than technical accuracy and my tastes are primarily Classical Music, voice and some easy Jazz."
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May 3, 2021, 01:29 PM #23
Re: Tube amplifier for Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD
I've never had very costly amps in my system but of the dozen or so solid state ones in the £3-8K range I've bought or home demo'd recently, I found the best sound and highest ME factor from the relatively inexpensive NAD M33. This is an all-in-one so it's a bit of a bargain in my book. I'm sure I could better it, but probably I'd need to spend £10+ on the amp alone and goodness knows what on the DAC, streamer, DSP (which I prefer not to use), etc. With my Duo XDs, there were other amps I liked but for one reason or another, I settled for the NAD. Peter
Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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May 11, 2021, 06:53 AM #24
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- Aug 2018
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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