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Thread: Top Tier Amps

  1. #301
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I just went through the whole thread and honestly don’t know why.
    At first glance it’s a “expensive is best” tier ranking but admittedly that got water down to more realistic criteria .

    If I’m being honest having gone through the many suggestions on all tiers it’s been fun to be remember that I had a bunch of the manufactures through here.

    One I don’t see , and likely brand recognition plays into this is Gamut. I have had their limited edition integrated and for a short period their monos. If sonics were the only criteria they would certainly be up on the list.... excellent amplifiers.

    However the roller coaster stopped in its tracks when I heard a stereo amp from a niche inside of a niche builder at a friends house . I contacted a dealer in Canada and asked if he could get the St Louis builder to custom make a set of monos for me

    The hidden genius of Wilson Shen from Clayton Audio built me a spectacular set of his M200’s and I have the amps that he has now determined is the lasted greatest iteration of that series

    From a guy that has had and spent multiple times the money on amps I can say they are the best sounding most dynamic Claas A amps I have had through here....

    They won’t qualify for this list no doubt but , after 40 years of amp roller coaster I have never been happier

  2. #302
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    Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by ADCO View Post
    I just went through the whole thread and honestly don’t know why.
    At first glance it’s a “expensive is best” tier ranking but admittedly that got water down to more realistic criteria .

    If I’m being honest having gone through the many suggestions on all tiers it’s been fun to be remember that I had a bunch of the manufactures through here.

    One I don’t see , and likely brand recognition plays into this is Gamut. I have had their limited edition integrated and for a short period their monos. If sonics were the only criteria they would certainly be up on the list.... excellent amplifiers.

    However the roller coaster stopped in its tracks when I heard a stereo amp from a niche inside of a niche builder at a friends house . I contacted a dealer in Canada and asked if he could get the St Louis builder to custom make a set of monos for me

    The hidden genius of Wilson Shen from Clayton Audio built me a spectacular set of his M200’s and I have the amps that he has now determined is the lasted greatest iteration of that series

    From a guy that has had and spent multiple times the money on amps I can say they are the best sounding most dynamic Claas A amps I have had through here....

    They won’t qualify for this list no doubt but , after 40 years of amp roller coaster I have never been happier
    Didn’t the chief designer/founder for Gamut leave and join Raidho and then go on to Gryphon?

    Glad you’re enjoying your Clayton Audio. The challenge is, if you ask 100 audiophiles about Clayton Audio, I’m pretty sure 99 have never heard of it, and that one might be thinking Spatial Audio (Clayton Shaw). So, it’s a little difficult to rank and that’s the point of the list, but I’m glad you like it and I’m sure it’s good.
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  3. #303
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    You are correct Mike, I don’t actually know if Gamut is still doing anything other than speakers since the designer left... dam good amps though

    And.... agreed on all points with Clayton.
    They are obscure beyond a doubt . What has been great is that I didn’t feel the need to sell anything to help fund the purchase as they are (relatively) in expensive in quality amplification terms.

    They are the only amp i have had in here that I literally stopped listening too or for

    If that makes any sense what so ever

  4. #304
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by ADCO View Post
    You are correct Mike, I don’t actually know if Gamut is still doing anything other than speakers since the designer left... dam good amps though

    And.... agreed on all points with Clayton.
    They are obscure beyond a doubt . What has been great is that I didn’t feel the need to sell anything to help fund the purchase as they are (relatively) in expensive in quality amplification terms.

    They are the only amp i have had in here that I literally stopped listening too or for

    If that makes any sense what so ever
    Makes total sense and as I’ve said many times, I myself have Tier 3 stuff. Heck, after spending so much time on the NAIM groups, I’m thinking more like Tier 4. LOL.

    I remember talking to another dealer years ago and when GAMUT came up, he just looked at me and said “the stupidest name in audio. The name kills them.” It always stuck with me. But agreed, they made some really good stuff. Many times, they were best of show.

    Maybe we need a list: “where are they now?” So many companies just fall off the radar. It doesn’t mean they don’t make great stuff, they do. But they just fall off the radar. Ayre, CJ, Krell to name a few. Would make for an interesting conversation. DynAudio for example was riding high about 10 years ago. Now? I never hear a customer mention them as even an option. And they DO build great speakers and build their own drivers. What causes the fall from grace? I see Revel starting down that path as there is no real replacement (yet) for their much beloved Salon 2. Do companies get distracted? Lose their core focus? Or is it more a tribute to the companies with such incredible staying power like Pass, Shunyata, McIntosh, B&W, Focal, Magico, Wilson? These are the names that come up CONSTANTLY, among others. But I haven’t heard much about Revel, DynAudio and many others in the last few years. I would imagine it all comes down to the sheer expensive of R&D and marketing. Must be astronomical. Can’t cut corners on either.
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  5. #305
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Makes total sense and as I’ve said many times, I myself have Tier 3 stuff. Heck, after spending so much time on the NAIM groups, I’m thinking more like Tier 4. LOL.

    I remember talking to another dealer years ago and when GAMUT came up, he just looked at me and said “the stupidest name in audio. The name kills them.” It always stuck with me. But agreed, they made some really good stuff. Many times, they were best of show.

    Maybe we need a list: “where are they now?” So many companies just fall off the radar. It doesn’t mean they don’t make great stuff, they do. But they just fall off the radar. Ayre, CJ, Krell to name a few. Would make for an interesting conversation. DynAudio for example was riding high about 10 years ago. Now? I never hear a customer mention them as even an option. And they DO build great speakers and build their own drivers. What causes the fall from grace? I see Revel starting down that path as there is no real replacement (yet) for their much beloved Salon 2. Do companies get distracted? Lose their core focus? Or is it more a tribute to the companies with such incredible staying power like Pass, Shunyata, McIntosh, B&W, Focal, Magico, Wilson? These are the names that come up CONSTANTLY, among others. But I haven’t heard much about Revel, DynAudio and many others in the last few years. I would imagine it all comes down to the sheer expensive of R&D and marketing. Must be astronomical. Can’t cut corners on either.
    Please start a new thread on this as I am sure there will be many comments to follow
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  6. #306

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Mike, it's funny how you mentioned Gamut and Dynaudio. Last year i blew the woofer in my 10 year old Gamut L7 speakers and it took a long time to get a replacement from Gamut, so i was loosing my mind waiting and bought a pair of Dynaudio platinum C4's. i bought these speakers based on reviews and sounded like a speaker i would love. boy was i wrong, after the first day i had the C4's i know the Gamut L7's were a better speaker. one man's smooth sounding speaker is another man's boring speaker. The C4 's just didn't do it for me, now sold. john

  7. #307
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    All drifting off topic but I had a set of the Gamut M5’s... dollar for dollar an excellent speaker .... I tried many many speakers and finally got to Acoustic Zen Crescendo II’s as an upgrade to my preference.... same story with the Zens it took some time and many trials to move from them and ended up with Arteluthe Stilettos ....

    Audio is a journey for us weirdos

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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    *When* I win the lotto, I'd buy the big Boulders.


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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    AudioNote? I'm not familiar with their amps but I have an AN DAC and it bested everything I tried next to it, until I retired it.

    I might argue that Ayre could move up a tier. While I havent heard more than 1 or 2 of the Tier 1 amps, I've heard several of the Tier 2, including some a/b against my MX-R Twenty's and thought the Ayre better to my ear. Certainly weren't inexpensive. That said, you certainly have far more experience with these things than I ever will!
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  10. #310
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    Top Tier Amps

    After living with the Block Audio amps and preamp for almost a year and directly compared to Soulution, Boulder, Gryphon, etc., I’ve added them to Tier 1.


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  11. #311
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    After living with the Block Audio amps and preamp for almost a year and directly compared to Soulution, Boulder, Gryphon, etc., I’ve added them to Tier 1.


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  12. #312
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    market perception is close to zero, how could these jump into tier1?

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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    market perception is close to zero, how could these jump into tier1?
    Based on Mike’s post, I am thinking he is making his determination based primarily on sound quality and build quality, although most that have listened to them have offered high praise.

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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Based on Mike’s post, I am thinking he is making his determination based primarily on sound quality and build quality, although most that have listened to them have offered high praise.

    Ken
    And they are growing in popularity - especially in Europe.


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  15. #315
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    block audio is basicly unknown in europe, there is no shop who sells it, no reviews either, not present at shows, nobody talks about.
    i do not doubt they sound excellent. the question is whether the criterias of the tread have changed to performance.
    changing criterias has no name

  16. #316
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    Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    block audio is basicly unknown in europe, there is no shop who sells it, no reviews either, not present at shows, nobody talks about.
    i do not doubt they sound excellent. the question is whether the criterias of the tread have changed to performance.
    changing criterias has no name
    I don’t agree. Block is catching on. I was watching the comments on Jay’s latest video and a bunch of folks thought his amps were Block! So much for “no one” knowing the name.

    Maybe YOU don’t know about them!

    By the way, you’re free to start your own list and have folks debate.







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  17. #317
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    the hidden brand
    block audio amplifier – Google Suche
    only block itself, soundrebels, suncoast and high-end palace

    try ANY other brand and you can see the difference

  18. #318
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    just as an example
    pilium – Google Suche
    pictures, dealers, systems, talk......evidence of marketperception

  19. #319
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    the hidden brand
    block audio amplifier – Google Suche
    only block itself, soundrebels, suncoast and high-end palace

    try ANY other brand and you can see the difference
    Guess where you live, it’s not as well known.



    Anyway, not sure what the issue is. Start your own list if you don’t agree. And I also assume you have never heard a Block audio piece?


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  20. #320
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    no, i have not heard them. i would really love to. i love amplifiers and any new and good manufacture is more than welcome. block audio is welcome and i wish them the best only.

    my issue is that you are saying block audio is among the worlds 10 most percepted high end amps.

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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    no, i have not heard them. i would really love to. i love amplifiers and any new and good manufacture is more than welcome. block audio is welcome and i wish them the best only.

    my issue is that you are saying block audio is among the worlds 10 most percepted high end amps.
    They’ve been around longer than many on that list. You should hear them. They have the slam of Soulution, the bass of gryphon and the midrange liquidity of tubes. Class A beauty. Oh, and $60k/PAIR for the SE monos beating $180k amps IMO. One listen and you’ll know. Build quality out of this world. Love their matching stands too!

    When I asked my Euro dealer/reviewer friends if they were T+A level or CH/Soulution/Dart level - they all said top tier! I totally agree.


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  22. #322
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    well, looking at them leaves no doubt! beautiful clean sota design like ch for half the price.
    the cooling ribs are my only concern. wife and me got hurt a few times by mark levinsons...

  23. #323

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I never heard of Block audio, they look like beasts. In terms of popularity, if they're not reviewed in the big 2 audio magazines (Stereo Review and TAS) then they usually aren't mainstream high end IMO. Again, this has nothing to do with their sonic abilities or lack thereof.
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  24. #324
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    Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by sb6 View Post
    I never heard of Block audio, they look like beasts. In terms of popularity, if they're not reviewed in the big 2 audio magazines (Stereo Review and TAS) then they usually aren't mainstream high end IMO. Again, this has nothing to do with their sonic abilities or lack thereof.
    This is an interesting point. Not speaking of Block, but more in general terms, I think it’s more important to have 5-10 reviews by soundstage, PTA, Enjoy The Music, PF, than one review by one of the big two. The reason? I’ve had customers say, “yah, but I can only find one review, the absolute sound review and nothing else…”

    I’d rather have a plethora of reviews than just one in a big mag.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  25. #325
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Sometimes with mainstream magazines it is somewhat of a pay to play. I haven't looked at them to see if Block Audio advertises in them but that could be part of the issue. The reviews of their products are listed at the Block Audio site - Reviews – Block Audio
    Main System - Lumin U2, Modwright LS36.5 DM Preamp, VTV Purifi 1ET-7040SA with tube buffer, EMM Labs DAC 2X (ver. 2), Torus RM-20, Thiel CS 3.7s, 2 Rel S/812 subs
    Back-up 1 - Premium Audio mini Gan Amp, Oppo 103D, 2 Richard Gray cond, Selah SA-2s, Sumiko S5 sub, Teac UD-503 DAC, Carver (modded) C-9
    Back-up 2 - Onkyo TX-NR797, Panasonic DP-UB820, Vansevers cond, B&W P6s, PowerSoundAudio S1500 sub

  26. #326
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I’ve heard them at Mike’s store. They are outstanding. Heard them driving a pair of Vivid G1 Spirits. Impressive to say the least.
    _______________

    Mike

    Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
    Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
    Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
    Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
    Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
    Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
    Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
    Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
    ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
    Rack: Artesania Exoteryc

  27. #327

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This is an interesting point. Not speaking of Block, but more in general terms, I think it’s more important to have 5-10 reviews by soundstage, PTA, Enjoy The Music, PF, than one review by one of the big two. The reason? I’ve had customers say, “yah, but I can only find one review, the absolute sound review and nothing else…”

    I’d rather have a plethora of reviews than just one in a big mag.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I get it and I'm not a dealer so I don't have nearly as many data points as you. But from folks into audio that I know, many are vested in reviewers' feedback / reviews (think Fremer with analog). They could care less about other spurious lesser tier magazines.

    IMO the more data the better, reviews, dealer opinions, owners' feedback and of course, best of all listening to the prospective equipment on a similar system to mine is best.
    4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room

  28. #328
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by sb6 View Post
    I get it and I'm not a dealer so I don't have nearly as many data points as you. But from folks into audio that I know, many are vested in reviewers' feedback / reviews (think Fremer with analog). They could care less about other spurious lesser tier magazines.

    IMO the more data the better, reviews, dealer opinions, owners' feedback and of course, best of all listening to the prospective equipment on a similar system to mine is best.
    I’m in agreement with you. The more the merrier. I really enjoy the Soundstage reviews and PF too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  29. #329

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’m in agreement with you. The more the merrier. I really enjoy the Soundstage reviews and PF too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Me too Mike. After conversing with Doug at Soundstage, that helped push me over to buy the Giya G2 S2s. He bought the same speakers not too long afterwards :-)
    4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room

  30. #330

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I bought my Vivid B1 Decades after reading Doug's review several years ago. I bet he's turned quite a few folks on to Vivid b/c of his reviews. Shoot, now I have to move from my Tier 3 amp (Hegel H30) to Tier 2...thanks guys!

  31. #331

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t agree. Block is catching on. I was watching the comments on Jay’s latest video and a bunch of folks thought his amps were Block! So much for “no one” knowing the name.

    Maybe YOU don’t know about them!

    By the way, you’re free to start your own list and have folks debate.







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Who the fudge is Jay?

    So far they’re nowhere in Europe, Mike. No reviews, no presentations.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  32. #332

    Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil A View Post
    Sometimes with mainstream magazines it is somewhat of a pay to play. I haven't looked at them to see if Block Audio advertises in them but that could be part of the issue. The reviews of their products are listed at the Block Audio site - Reviews – Block Audio
    None of them is a magazine, just minor online sites.

    The point here is if you ask an audio retailer for the best brands, they miraculously happen to be the ones the retailer represents.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  33. #333
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    Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    None of them is a magazine, just minor online sites.

    The point here is if you ask an audio retailer for the best brands, they miraculously happen to be the ones the retailer represents.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Are all the ones I have in tier 1 brands I represent? I hardly think so and the brand I own personally I have pegged at tier 3.

    Again, people are free to start their own list.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  34. #334
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I’ve decided I’ll now be bringing the Block Audio gear (with Vivid G1 Spirits) for Florida Audio Expo attendees to hear.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  35. #335

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’ve decided I’ll now be bringing the Block Audio gear (with Vivid G1 Spirits) for Florida Audio Expo attendees to hear.
    Great idea. Definitely need to get this brand some more exposure.
    Kevin

    Main: VPI Aries 3/Grado Reference3, and Aurender N200 > PS Audio DS DAC. Luxman L-509Z integrated amp. Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers. PS Audio P10 power. Transparent Audio, Cardas and Audioquest cables.

    Bar: EAT C-sharp/Hana MH, and exaSound s82 > Luxman L-595SE amp. GolderEar One.R speakers. Shunyata power, Audioquest cables.

  36. #336

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Coincident is another brand to consider adding to the list. Been around a while (yet quietly), and really sound great. They were part of one of the best sounds at the Capital Audio Fest.

    Also Atma-Sphere.
    Kevin

    Main: VPI Aries 3/Grado Reference3, and Aurender N200 > PS Audio DS DAC. Luxman L-509Z integrated amp. Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers. PS Audio P10 power. Transparent Audio, Cardas and Audioquest cables.

    Bar: EAT C-sharp/Hana MH, and exaSound s82 > Luxman L-595SE amp. GolderEar One.R speakers. Shunyata power, Audioquest cables.

  37. #337
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by 4N6 View Post
    Coincident is another brand to consider adding to the list. Been around a while (yet quietly), and really sound great. They were part of one of the best sounds at the Capital Audio Fest.

    Also Atma-Sphere.
    I was also wondering where Atma-sphere and BAT fit in.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.

  38. #338
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I’ve decided I’ll now be bringing the Block Audio gear (with Vivid G1 Spirits) for Florida Audio Expo attendees to hear.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Mike the only issue with not being able to A/B the Block's with other gear at the Show as we can in your store, few will realize just how good they are.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's MxV’s & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  39. #339
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    Mike the only issue with not being able to A/B the Block's with other gear at the Show as we can in your store, few will realize just how good they are.
    While true, the 'good fisherman' knows how to bait his hook !
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  40. #340
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    I was also wondering where Atma-sphere and BAT fit in.
    Where would you suggest? Tier 3? I really like both. Tier 2 for BAT?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  41. #341
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    I have heard the Atma Sphere MA1's and the M1 preamp (which sound great by the way) but not their top of the line amps. I would put them Tier 2. Same for BAT but I have not heard their latest and greatest REX gear. You really don't hear much about both brands lately though.

    I really like both as well.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.

  42. #342
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Might not be possible to really answer this, but hypothetically, how do you compare a "lower-end model" from a "higher tier" manufacturer, to a higher-end model from a lower-tier manufacturer.

    For instance, might we expect that the Ayre VX-r Twenty is equivalent to/better/worse than, the T+A A 200? Legit question in a way, since I'm actually considering those, but have only heard the Ayre and have no way of hearing the T+A although it's now interesting since it was rated well by @Mike and gets rave reviews.
    Main System

    Lumin X1 > Boulder 1161 > Scansonic MB3.5 B

    Headphones

    Home: HiFiMan Susvara > Schiit Lyr+
    Portable: Focal Radiance > AQ Dragonfly Cobalt / Chord Hugo 2

  43. #343
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Might not be possible to really answer this, but hypothetically, how do you compare a "lower-end model" from a "higher tier" manufacturer, to a higher-end model from a lower-tier manufacturer.

    For instance, might we expect that the Ayre VX-r Twenty is equivalent to/better/worse than, the T+A A 200? Legit question in a way, since I'm actually considering those, but have only heard the Ayre and have no way of hearing the T+A although it's now interesting since it was rated well by @Mike and gets rave reviews.
    It’s a very fair point and one I had to think about when I put my own amp in Tier 3, even though, it’s the 500 in the series and second from the top. I think it’s fair to say that any brand can move up or down a peg based on the model being discussed in light of the brand itself, etc.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  44. #344
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Sorry to further this threads’divergence but I heard Mike’s Block Audio mono SE amps and preamp yesterday with all Nordost cabling, an Aurender N30SA and Esoteric K1X going into a pair of Kharma Elegance DB11-S and it was one of, if not the best, sounding systems I have ever heard.
    Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Marantz TT-42
    Power: 3 x 20 Amp Lines, Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Shunyata Sigma v2 NR, Block Audio Power Cords, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
    Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - Alpha CGS cables
    Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon Modified) Buffalo GS2016 Switches powered with Keces P3 LPSU,
    Cables: Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 SCs, 1M & 6M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
    Other: Isoacoustics GAIA I footers on the Kharmas, GIK/Vicoustics/Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Ultra SS, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack

  45. #345
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Ah I see why the Sonus Faber are up for sale!

    Quote Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
    Sorry to further this threads divergence but I heard Mikes Block audio mono SE amps and preamp yesterday with all Nordost cabling, an Aurender N30SA and Esoteric K1X going into a pair of Kharma Elegance DB11-S and it was one of, if not the best, sounding systems I have ever heard.
    Marty

    Aurender N20 / SonicTransporter i7 / Roon
    MSB Premier
    Constellation Inspiration Preamp 1.0 / Mono 1.0
    Dynaudio Confidence 50 / SVS SB13 Ultra
    PS Audio Powerplant 15

  46. #346
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Might not be possible to really answer this, but hypothetically, how do you compare a "lower-end model" from a "higher tier" manufacturer, to a higher-end model from a lower-tier manufacturer.

    For instance, might we expect that the Ayre VX-r Twenty is equivalent to/better/worse than, the T+A A 200? Legit question in a way, since I'm actually considering those, but have only heard the Ayre and have no way of hearing the T+A although it's now interesting since it was rated well by @Mike and gets rave reviews.
    And also worth considering is that many times lower tier models use a different tech then higher tier models... case in point is the T+A A200. It is using the Purifier Class D tech. I think this tech is fantastic (I own the NAD C298 using the same tech), however it is completely different then previous model (I owned the T+A Amp 8 for example), and other models in their lineup. However I totally trust T+A and if they are offering it I personally believe it is worthy.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  47. #347
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    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Mike,
    I'm intrigued by the Block amps.
    As they are Class A, do they run hot inside a cabinet, or just warm?
    Barry
    Speakers; Wilson Audio Alexx
    Amp; D'Agostino MxV 400
    Source; MSB Select II
    Power: Stromtank S2500Q

  48. #348

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Might not be possible to really answer this, but hypothetically, how do you compare a "lower-end model" from a "higher tier" manufacturer, to a higher-end model from a lower-tier manufacturer.
    This is a great point, nicely demonstrated by the Parasound JC1+, Bryson 28B cubed and the PS Audio BHK 300 mono amplifiers. All perhaps at a performance level one tier up from the rest of their kin.
    Kevin

    Main: VPI Aries 3/Grado Reference3, and Aurender N200 > PS Audio DS DAC. Luxman L-509Z integrated amp. Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers. PS Audio P10 power. Transparent Audio, Cardas and Audioquest cables.

    Bar: EAT C-sharp/Hana MH, and exaSound s82 > Luxman L-595SE amp. GolderEar One.R speakers. Shunyata power, Audioquest cables.

  49. #349
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    30,048

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by Kippyy View Post
    Mike,
    I'm intrigued by the Block amps.
    As they are Class A, do they run hot inside a cabinet, or just warm?
    Barry
    Hi Barry,

    They are fabulous amps and beat some costing 3 times as much in our shootouts. I would however never put them in a cabinet. They are best out in the open and best on their own amp stands.

    You’re talking about $60K/pair for amps beating amps costing much more. They deliver 200 watts/channel of pure class A plus another 300 watts/channel of AB beyond the first 200 of class A. They have the slam of Soulution, bass of Gryphon and a tube midrange and top end.

    They also work best with the matching preamp as it controls the amps, reads the temperature on the front display and can put them into eco mode when not in use (but staying on).

    But like all class A amps, they run hot when in use.

    Mike


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  50. #350
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    649

    Re: Top Tier Amps

    Where would Bakoon or Enleum hit your list?

    Have to say I think I’m happier with the Enleum than I was with the Ayre MX-Rs or AX-5. Different system so hard to compare but the Enleum wants for nothing immediately obvious to me.
    Main System

    Lumin X1 > Boulder 1161 > Scansonic MB3.5 B

    Headphones

    Home: HiFiMan Susvara > Schiit Lyr+
    Portable: Focal Radiance > AQ Dragonfly Cobalt / Chord Hugo 2

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