Thread: Is there a characteristic McIntosh sound?

I've only auditioned one McIntosh integrated amp about a year ago so I'm a long way from being knowledgeable about their amps. My aural memory of the amp is very faded. I would think with as many models that McIntosh produces they would mostly not have a particular sonic personality, but a large variety of sonic personalities. So, is their a characteristic McIntosh sound?

Originally Posted by bluegrassphile

I've only auditioned one McIntosh integrated amp about a year ago so I'm a long way from being knowledgeable about their amps. My aural memory of the amp is very faded. I would think with as many models that McIntosh produces they would mostly not have a particular sonic personality, but a large variety of sonic personalities. So, is their a characteristic McIntosh sound?

Warm, and rolled off highs. Don't worry they don't have the resolution and clarity of your INT-250.

But, its a big bold sound; which many like.

I've heard their the latest (611 Monos +C53+) Diamond D3 ; Granted it was at Magnolia.

But, for that price; those speakers are capable of so much more.

IMHO; Mcintosh has their fans but, IMHO its more of a lifestyle brand now then a high end performance brand.

Audio Research is the High End brand of that group. Granted they are using tubes but, still what Mcintosh is charging.

I remember getting into the hobby a few years and wanting Mcintosh electronics. Heard them at Magnolia with at that time latest; previous gen Diamonds (Yellow Tweeter); 601 mono and C52 pre amp plus their CD cd player.

Wow; I was blown away.

Later in the day; Heard Kef Blades with Parasound front end; not even the monos.

Very different and drastic IMHO. Less expensive Electronics; KEF+Parasound had resolution, imaging, realism to the sound.

Mcintosh was muffled compared to them.

Originally Posted by Mike

To properly qualify the answer to this question, it’s very important to determine whether we are talking about the pre-2018 McIntosh sound or post 2018 McIntosh sound. They are so fundamentally different that old Mc fans may enter a state of shock and old Mc haters may become fans.

The point here is that the Mc house sound has changed quite dramatically.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you say that the post 2018 sound is higher resolving? Aka more detail etc..

I did hear the new C53, 611 monos and with the latest Diamonds..

BUT.... they were streaming via Bluesound into the USB In on the Pre -amps built in Dac.

Sound was very hard sound; smooth but, no treble resolution; no mids.

As they say if its not captured at the source..

Originally Posted by jdandy

Always amused at people who make comments about McIntosh like the ones above. Rolled off highs, warm, less resolution, muffled, more lifestyle than high end performance. Auditioning McIntosh at Magnolia, streaming via Bluesound and thinking you actually heard a system at its best is revealing, then claiming the B&W speakers are capable of so much more, and Audio Research is the High End brand of that group. I have no issues with the anyone's opinions, just their accuracy.

MC601 power amplifier:
Frequency Response +0, -0.25dB from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, +0, -3.0dB from 10Hz to 100,000Hz at full rated output. Where's the roll off, and where's the peak in the lower midrange that would demonstrate warmth. Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.005% maximum harmonic distortion at any power level from 250 milliwatts to rated power, 20Hz to 20,000Hz. This is typical for McIntosh power amplifier specifications across their catalog.

Come on now, lets get real. There are plenty of people who know McIntosh is really designed and marketed specifically to old men, doctors, and lawyers who have no clue what good sound is all about, and are only concerned with showing off cool lifestyle products in their fancy homes. That's why McIntosh puts so little effort into their amplifier designs. There's no point in wasting research and design dollars trying to be competitive in the marketplace when their customers can't hear a difference in the first place. I mean, it's common knowledge, right?

Does McIntosh have a house sound. Certainly, just like every other audio component manufacturer. Just like their competitors, McIntosh continuously tries to please the widest audience, making adjustments in their designs over time to remain current. Again, no different than Audio Research, Pass Labs, Bryston, Ayre and the rest. There is no such thing as a perfect power amplifier, one that introduces zero influence on the signal that passes through its circuits. Neutral is a fantasy in the ear of component owners. Every audio amplifier influences the sound in one way or another, just like preamplifiers, speakers, source components, cables, power conditioners, vibration control, and any number of other system contributions. You either like the final results or not. For some, bashing McIntosh is full time entertainment. The good thing about opinions is we all have them. That's what keeps our hobby interesting and fun.

Respectively and IMHO.

There are a lot better amplifiers, just not sold at dealers who are also Mcintosh dealers. When I mean better, I mean more resolving for the money than Mcintosh is charging.

Thats what the high end to me personally is about. To warrant some of of these prices.

If I wanted colored sound, I could spend a lot less than Mcintosh to have a fun warm system.

I've also heard those Diamonds with the following Electronics ; Chord Hugo TT2+MScaler+TTtoby (Stereo) , Audionet PRE G2+AMP Monos+Their CD Player ; Respectively , they both were a better match than Mcintosh with B&W.

Again, to what I'm subjectively looking for.

Pace, Rhythm, Timing, Speed, Resolution, Low Distortion.

My friend, I was just comparing it to what I heard using my own two ears. Now, yes Magnolia wasn't or isn't an ideal place to demo but, perhaps they should get the vendor there and think of a better way to showcase their products.

Their lowfi/mid-fi streaming setup doesn't suffice. Probably should have played a physical CD but, of course the market demands convenience so, quality suffers. Maybe McIntosh should develop their own streamer/roon endpoint and have it use their MCT connection.

Originally Posted by jdandy

mdp632.......Well good for you. There is a wide selection of great audio components available at remarkably reasonable price points. The fact is you are going to get colored sound no matter the component cost. Spend less than McIntosh or spend more, none of it is live sound, merely reproductions, facsimiles of the original event subject to all the foibles associated with every component part in the signal path from the microphones and consoles in recording studios to the sound system components and speakers we assemble for playback in our homes. There is only one real uncolored event. It's called live. Everything else is a highly subjective illusion. It is pleasing to know one can be thrifty and still manage to build a quality sound system that can be considered high-end. That's just one more aspect to our great hobby that keeps things enjoyable. There really is something for everyone.

We can agree to disagree

Let's put it this way in hobby. You can ask 100 people what amp,speaker,cable,etc.. they like.

You'll most likely get close to 100 different responses.

Since the hobby is so subjective ; their can never be an "Absolute Sound"

Since everyone definition of it is quite different.

If anything there are McIntosh owners, like Corvette owners (to use a car analogy) that think the sun rises and sets over their chosen brand...only to be outdone by Klipsch owners. And please, I have nothing against Mc owners--or Klipsch owners for that matter as I am one--its just an observation from being in this hobby 40+ yrs

Originally Posted by jdandy

Does McIntosh have a house sound. Certainly, just like every other audio component manufacturer.

Great post, but I only quoted part of it to point out that you didn't say what that house sound is.

In my opinion the McIntosh sound is about 3D sound-staging with a presence and grandeur of scale.

It's a "Big Sound", room filling.

It does not throw it's self at you, it envelops you as it commands the room.

It is not splashy or quick sounding like some electronics and that adds to the so called relaxed sound.

If you want to get a taste of what I mean by "scale" go to a very Hi-End shop on a slow day and listen to some CD or computer based musical passages. Then listen to them on a +$20,000 turntable. Then listen to their Reel to Reel tape player.

In each instance the scale of the presentation becomes larger and larger and more room enveloping and room expnading as if your are in the original performance concert hall.

McIntosh's fault is that it tends to expand the sound-stage a bit and get 3D with a super solid phantom center stage image.

That is a house sound I can live with.

If you get a chance go to a Linn dealer and listen to an all Linn system, your foot will be unable to stop tapping - it's weird and wonderful.

Audio Research is tubes trying to like sound solid state - usually. Not my thing but once with the right speakers (crazy expensive Italian) there was some magic. However, Conrad Johnson with B&W's will get you there for much less.

McIntosh speakers suck in my opinion, at least for the money they are asking. They sound like tarted up Polk's, no offense to Polk lovers intended.

Phisphan I think what you wrote is fairly accurate.

However, do me favor and in your mind or in real life compare McIntosh to "Live MUSIC" and not another electronic device.

Live music is not as splashy and pinpoint in location as recorded music unless you are the one knocking drumsticks against skins and cymbals.

Compression of certain frequencies in microphones and in recording medium alters perceptions to an accepted Hi-Fi sound verses live music sound.

That said McIntosh has had a few dud products in my opinion. One of them was an all format compact disc player that also did DVD's I think about 18-20 years ago. So lackluster was it that I asked the salesperson to see if something in the system was wired out of phase with leads reversed.

It was not, it just sucked.

Maybe I’m not understanding this correctly, but why would one want studio-recorded music to sound like “live music”? And how is it possible? Unless you’re listening to a live-recorded music, I don’t know why anyone would want that.

IMO, every amp has a house sound. And different generations of amps have a nuanced house sound as well - such as the Pass Labs .5s vs. .8s.

My dad had Mc Tube Amps. They had a wonderful house sound - at least to this then teenager they did - esp. when I listened to them while he was at work

But that was decades ago. And remembering that experience, I've listened to Mcs in the past six months or so but didn't enjoy them as much. But that could be attributed to many things - such as my dad's Vinyl and Tape vs. my Digital, the type speakers, cables, my aging ears, etc.

So, do Mcs have a house sound? IMO, yes they do. Do different Mc models have a slightly nuanced house sound? IMO, yes they can.

Whether one enjoys one over another is up to the end listener. Your system, your room, your "house sound."

Originally Posted by Calvin

Whether one enjoys one over another is up to the end listener. Your system, your room, your "house sound."

From a subjective point of view (the pleasure that everyone gets from the audio), I am obliged to agree. However, this opens the door to a path of subjectivity that legitimizes all options, which for me is not valid. Regardless of the subjectivity of personal taste, there is an objective of linearity, transparency, let´s say respect for the content of the recording (*) that the manufacturers should pursue.

(*) I agree that it is not about respecting the live sound - from the live sound only the individual timbre of each instrument is important)

Originally Posted by Spock

From a subjective point of view (the pleasure that everyone gets from the audio), I am obliged to agree. However, this opens the door to a path of subjectivity that legitimizes all options, which for me is not valid. Regardless of the subjectivity of personal taste, there is an objective of linearity, transparency, let´s say respect for the content of the recording (*) that the manufacturers should pursue.

(*) I agree that it is not about respecting the live sound - from the live sound only the individual timbre of each instrument is important)

Yes, I see your point and agree for the most part. Manufactures should pursue the APS (Absolute Perfect System). And so should listeners that have the means to do so.

But even if the APS was discovered, manufactured and distributed, subjectivity would still enter into the final equation as the purchaser still makes the final decision of what is right for their ears - and not all our ears are the same (i.e. different levels of damage thus we hear differently, etc.). And not all audiophiles are trained to hear the same details - some aren't trained at all. Therefore subjectivity enters in here as well. And though the APS wouldn't need tweaking some Audiophiles would inevitably find something to tweak, as its in the Audiophile DNA to do so.

So, IMO audio has both objective and subjective elements that should be respected. But this is just a philosophical opinion on my part that probably needs tweaking.

Characteristic sound? maybe, but characteristic owner? fo' sure. in the early '80s when I got serious about sound equipment McIntosh was what your dad (or grandpa) bought. TAS and Stereophile snubbed their collective noses at it, there really was little to no innovation to speak of at McIntosh for many years. The one dealer in my area that carried it also had Klipsch and B&W (what does that say?). The one store in town (San Diego, circa 80s-90s) known for serving one-off buyers was where you'd find it (Breier). The hipsters went to one of the other two shops that carried everything else (i.e. Levinson, ARC, CJ, Magnepan, Linn, SOTA, VPI, Rowland, Wilson, Wadia, Krell, Theil, Vandersteen, Dunlavy, Quad, Apogee, et al). Fast forward to 2020 and still, nothing about McIntosh excites me except their vintage stuff (MC30, MR78, C-20, MA230, MC226, etc.). FWIW, of the hipster stores only Stereo Unlimited remains, Stereo Design is kaput.

Originally Posted by UltraFast69

The short answer is you bet there is!................this is no different than any other brand.

I agree, and good for a short answer.

Originally Posted by Mike

The autoformer giveth and the autoformer taketh away. The autoformer has a unique sound.............

And the above is Part II of the short answer.

Originally Posted by puroagave

Characteristic sound? maybe, but characteristic owner? fo' sure..........The one dealer in my area that carried it also had Klipsch and B&W (what does that say?).

This sounds very much like Almas Hi-Fi in metro Detroit.

I think there is an old school Vs new school generational comparison of equipment because at one time McIntosh was the sole survivor of American tube amp manufacturers and carried the torch while others like HH Scott, Marantz and The Fisher fell to the way side during the Japanese invasion of solid state equipment.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Maybe I’m not understanding this correctly, but why would one want studio-recorded music to sound like “live music”? And how is it possible? Unless you’re listening to a live-recorded music, I don’t know why anyone would want that.

I don't think many people want that, but maybe some do.

And maybe some want live performances in opera houses to sound like recording studios.

To each their own.

Originally Posted by Calvin

Yes, I see your point and agree for the most part. Manufactures should pursue the APS (Absolute Perfect System).

Let me put it in another way to make myself better understood. It is not so much about pursuing perfection but about avoiding gross flaws like distortion and coloration.
When the music comes out free of coloration, we can enjoy a good sound whether it is reproduced by a Sonus Faber or by an Monitor Audio speaker (to name two brands with very different sounds).

Originally Posted by Bones13

My 50+ year old McIntosh MC60s do have some mid range warmth, and great low end extension. I’m undecided whether my system, or my ears that are rolled off a bit in the highs.

I have an idea that your amp would capture that older Mc sound that I loved in my dad's system so much. It's may even be the same model since my dad bought his in 1959-1960. Nice to see an older one still in use on the forum.