Thread: Rowland 625 S2 vs Luxman M900u? What’s better?

Any thoughts?

Thank you very much gentlemen. I appreciate your thoughts.

I had and loved the C-900 preamp (still miss that one). I’m thinking about the M-900u for my non Avantgarde speakers. I think it’ll be a great match.

Plus the Luxman seems a little more flexible.

I remembered that but I’m hoping that my GAT2, which is only single ended, matches well. The Rowland has only balanced inputs and I’m not crazy about adapters or some other conversion method.

had the m900u on my Haileys and wasn't enough juice - considering the 625mk2 if it has gone back to the old Rowland sound.

OT- how was the SIT-3 vs XA25 on your Avantgardes?

Hi Keith,

Hands down, for my taste and ears, the SIT-3 is the clear winner. The XA25 was good but more typical solid state sounding than I’d like. My guess is that the XA30.8 could beat the XA25 on my AG.

The SIT-3 is absolutely wonderful. Dead quiet, sweeter and warmer, mid hall perspective with awesome vocals and piano.

The SIT-1 monos were great too but a lot more energetic. Since my room is on the smaller side for the Avantgardes, to me, they felt a little too much in my face. I love a more laid back sound like the SIT-3.

Regarding the Rowland, it’s probably one of their best sounding amps and conventional Class AB.

Originally Posted by KeithR

had the m900u on my Haileys and wasn't enough juice - considering the 625mk2 if it has gone back to the old Rowland sound.

OT- how was the SIT-3 vs XA25 on your Avantgardes?

Worth pointing out that Rowland is rumored to have a new major product just around the corner. I will post details as soon as I receive them from the factory.

Regards, G.

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Keith,

Hands down, for my taste and ears, the SIT-3 is the clear winner. The XA25 was good but more typical solid state sounding than I’d like. My guess is that the XA30.8 could beat the XA25 on my AG.

The SIT-3 is absolutely wonderful. Dead quiet, sweeter and warmer, mid hall perspective with awesome vocals and piano.

The SIT-1 monos were great too but a lot more energetic. Since my room is on the smaller side for the Avantgardes, to me, they felt a little too much in my face. I love a more laid back sound like the SIT-3.

Regarding the Rowland, it’s probably one of their best sounding amps and conventional Class AB.

Synergy is everything at this level - thank you for your thoughts!

My eye has been on a set of Lamm hybrids if a set pops up, but maybe Rowland is worth a shot. At 600w into 4ohms, Rowland has the juice required and my system is fully balanced to begin with.

I considered the big Pass stereo amp, but it's not a great match for my preamp (input voltage requires a full active preamp).

Originally Posted by GuidoCorona

Worth pointing out that Rowland is rumored to have a new major product just around the corner. I will post details as soon as I receive them from the factory.

Regards, G.

Are you a “brand spokesperson” for Rowland? I asked you before in your other thread about Rowland where your review would be published and never received an answer.

Hello MEP, my apologies for not responding to an earlier post of yours... The silence was not intentional.

Unfortunately I am not a Rowland brand spokesperson. On the other hand, I freely confess of being an enthusiast of many Rowland products, and I keep up with matters Rowland.

I know I had hinted in the past that I would work on a full review of the Rowland M535 bridged... M535 bridged are incredible for the price, and I posted informally about that amp, but a more formalized long-form review did not happen... I happen to suffer from Procrastinitis Furiosa, and the review fell victim to the malaise

Or are you talking about some other product eval that failed to materialize?

My current scribbling about the Daemon superintegrated is my first longish Rowland eval since I scribbled about M925 years ago.

Saluti, Guido

Originally Posted by GuidoCorona

Hello MEP, my apologies for not responding to an earlier post of yours... The silence was not intentional.

Unfortunately I am not a Rowland brand spokesperson. On the other hand, I freely confess of being an enthusiast of many Rowland products, and I keep up with matters Rowland.

I know I had hinted in the past that I would work on a full review of the Rowland M535 bridged... M535 bridged are incredible for the price, and I posted informally about that amp, but a more formalized long-form review did not happen... I happen to suffer from Procrastinitis Furiosa, and the review fell victim to the malaise

Or are you talking about some other product eval that failed to materialize?

My current scribbling about the Daemon superintegrated is my first longish Rowland eval since I scribbled about M925 years ago.

Saluti, Guido

I'm talking about the title of your Rowland Dameon thread which implies you are reviewing Rowland gear:

"Jeff Rowland Daemon – Reviewing JRDG’s Superintegrated Statement Amplifier"

Or did you mean to say that your Dameon thread on AS is your review?

Hi Mep, now I understand... Sorry for the confusion.

My Daemon thread is the actual review in the form of a progressive diary/journal...

My original intention was to update the top post with each new journal-like entry.... Unfortunately, this turned out to be impossible, because there does not seem to be a way for me to edit/update the original post... As a result, updates to my Daemon adventure can be found only in subsequent posts of the same thread.

Saluti,

Guido

Guido's been a well-known, passionate Rowland owner for years, nothing more. An asset to the audiophile community and likely has much better ears than we do

I've given constructive criticism at times over the years and he always has a totally legitimate response. Says a lot about his character.

Originally Posted by joeinid

I remembered that but I’m hoping that my GAT2, which is only single ended, matches well. The Rowland has only balanced inputs and I’m not crazy about adapters or some other conversion method.

Joe, I have yet to hear a SS amp that did not sound good with the GAT. It will certainly tell you what SS amp is better.
I use adaptors with my Nordost cable and no complaints with the sq - one day I will terminate it xlr, but then I will need adaptors for my tube mono's

Thank you so much for the reassurance. The GAT2 is wonderful and really makes the most of an amp.

Hello XV-1, you are right, the Rowland M625 S2 sports only balanced inputs. However, the factory can provide RCA2XLR adapter which they have tested not to degrade the signal... And you would still benefit from some of the noise reduction and intermodulation barrier of the device's XLR input coupling using Lundahl transformers.

Saluti, Guido

Originally Posted by KeithR

Guido's been a well-known, passionate Rowland owner for years, nothing more. An asset to the audiophile community and likely has much better ears than we do

I've given constructive criticism at times over the years and he always has a totally legitimate response. Says a lot about his character.

Transparency is always a good thing. It's hard to separate audiophiles who are "passionate owners" from "Brand Ambassadors" who are being paid to share their "love" of gear from a particular manufacturer. Especially when it's crazy over the top love.

Originally Posted by knghifi

I treat them all the same. Caveat Emptor!

They are indistinguishable.

Hmmm, I'm afraid that I might be more of a fan old gent than a fanboy by now *Rolls Eyes!*

More seriously, over the years I have observed a few top flight SS power amplifier brands that IMO share musical/sonic philosophy with Rowland, although they apply different technical solutions to achieve it.

Namely Bel Canto (particularly Black and the old REF1000 MK.2), Luxman, DartZeel, and Soulution. I always enjoyed enormously listening to Bel Canto and Luxman. DarTZeel is for me astonishingly immersive, and Soulution simply stunning.

My positive bias towards these brands stems from my musical interests, which largely revolve around classical music from the middle ages to modern times, for which IMO these five brands excell for their goldielockian approach to bandwidth, harmonic exposure, dynamics, low level detail, and minimizaation of intermodulative artifacts.

Particularly Solution and DartZeel I have found to be close to the best Rowland sound I have experienced, namely M925 and Daemon. Why not M625 S2? Because I have not heard M625 S2, thus all I know about it is some details about internals, and mostly glowing third party reports about its musical behavior.

Saluti from an unrepentant music fan-geezer, Guido

Guido,

Thank you very much for your continued updates and thoughts on Rowland. I’m looking forward to more information on the upcoming new product announcement from Rowland. Please let me know what it will be. Maybe by the time it’s ready, I’ll be ready too.

Please stay healthy and I look forward to your future posts.

Hello Joe, I will let you know about the upcoming Rowland product as soon as the pre-release fogger is lifted.

Far as I know, the wait should not be too long

Saluti, Guido (obsessive fan-geezer)

Hmm... An M725 monos successor? ... What a fascinating conjecture!

Saluti, G.

Hmmm... Like Caspar Weinberger once said.... "I will neither confirm nor deny!" *Grins!*

G.

Hahahaha

Originally Posted by audio.bill

As a former owner of the Rowland 625 (pre-S2) and currently running the Luxman M-900u I don't think there's necessarily a decisive winner in this comparison. I've also heard the 625 S2 extensively which is a significant evolutionary advance over the earlier version. Both amps are exceptional products and I think a preference is likely to come down to which is a better match to a given set of speakers as well as system synergy. I used to run Magnepan 3.7i and with them I'd give the nod to the Rowland which had greater dynamic swings and an overall effortlessness that the Luxman lacked. However I then changed to Dynaudio Contour 60 speakers and my preference shifted to the Luxman with amazing texture, harmonic integrity and overall musicality. Once you get to this level of gear I find that system matching and personal preference play a major role in determining which would be considered best.

Hello

I have a Corus and model 625 (first version), do you think I can drive magnepan 3.7i or 20.7i with ?
Thanks

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Originally Posted by audio.bill

Hello... The answer to your question is an enthusiastic YES regarding the Magnepan 3.7i since I had that exact combo and it is exceptional! Effortless dynamics, smooth, musical, and spacious! Regarding the 20.7 I can't definitively say since I've never had them or heard them driven by the 625, but my guess would be that they'd be similarly well matched. Hope that helps.

Thank you.
Sorry to be late.

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Originally Posted by audio.bill

Hello... The answer to your question is an enthusiastic YES regarding the Magnepan 3.7i since I had that exact combo and it is exceptional! Effortless dynamics, smooth, musical, and spacious! Regarding the 20.7 I can't definitively say since I've never had them or heard them driven by the 625, but my guess would be that they'd be similarly well matched. Hope that helps.

Thanks again.
I have listening the magnepan 1.7i.
They don't have the 3.7i.
I pass an order.
I must wait two months...

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Originally Posted by audio.bill

Congrats on your newly ordered Magnepans! The true ribbon tweeter of the 3.7i and 20.7i is vastly superior to the quasi-ribbon used in the 1.7i, they exhibit an effortless and airy high frequency response that is exceptional. Enjoy them in the best of health!

Thanks again.
It's too long to wait to have this loudspeaker...

Originally Posted by hongkong

Thanks again.
It's too long to wait to have this loudspeaker...

Congrats, enjoy them. The 3.7i's are awesome. Give them 75 to 100 hours of breakin. I own the 1.6's, and should have bought the 3.6's at the time.

Originally Posted by Mechnutt

Congrats, enjoy them. The 3.7i's are awesome. Give them 75 to 100 hours of breakin. I own the 1.6's, and should have bought the 3.6's at the time.

Thank you very much.
I don't know the 3.6, but I know 3.6r.
Thanks for your advice.
How to break in this magnepan, please ? Thanks.

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I've now had the pleasure of having both amps in my YG Hailey 2 -based system.

I don't feel there is a generic winner or loser, although the JRDG drives the Haileys much better. The Luxman has more texture, but a smaller soundstage with a slightly shelved top end. The JRDG excels in microdynamics and has better bass than the Luxman with really silky, sweet highs. The Luxman is more midrange focused, while the JRDG is more top down I'd say at this point. Neither are bright of course. The 625 does lack some low midrange/upper bass weight - we are going to play with some speaker positioning today and see if that changes things. The cello for instance isn't quite fleshed out enough in classical music.

I've also had my trusty Ampzillas in session with these big boys and they aren't embarrassed. They aren't as transparent as either, but are very musical, dynamic, and perhaps more even top to bottom on the Haileys. The Zillas lack some decay that the Rowland provides and I feel would pair better with a tube preamp than my Music First.

Now you guys understand what I've been doing in quarantine. I've been trying to find an amp that doesn't cost as much as a D'agostino S250, but will provide similar enjoyment.

Originally Posted by KeithR

I've now had the pleasure of having both amps in my YG Hailey 2 -based system.

I don't feel there is a generic winner or loser, although the JRDG drives the Haileys much better. The Luxman has more texture, but a smaller soundstage with a slightly shelved top end. The JRDG excels in microdynamics and has better bass than the Luxman with really silky, sweet highs. The Luxman is more midrange focused, while the JRDG is more top down I'd say at this point. Neither are bright of course. The 625 does lack some low midrange/upper bass weight - we are going to play with some speaker positioning today and see if that changes things. The cello for instance isn't quite fleshed out enough in classical music.

I've also had my trusty Ampzillas in session with these big boys and they aren't embarrassed. They aren't as transparent as either, but are very musical, dynamic, and perhaps more even top to bottom on the Haileys. The Zillas lack some decay that the Rowland provides and I feel would pair better with a tube preamp than my Music First.

Now you guys understand what I've been doing in quarantine. I've been trying to find an amp that doesn't cost as much as a D'agostino S250, but will provide similar enjoyment.

Pass X350.8? I prefer the 260.8 monos myself, but the 250.8 and 350.8 are excellent stereo amps that sound similar to the D’ag 250.

Another thought: Gryphon Essence Stereo.

One more: constellation Taurus stereo


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Originally Posted by Mike

Pass X350.8? I prefer the 260.8 monos myself, but the 250.8 and 350.8 are excellent stereo amps that sound similar to the D’ag 250.

Well Mike, I'm not done evaluating the various amps in my stable yet although the PS Audios just went up for sale. They had poor synergy with the YGs. The Pass 260.8s and Parasound JC1+s are probably the only other amps out there interesting in my price range. I wonder which one is warmer, as this speaker requires that.

Originally Posted by KeithR

Well Mike, I'm not done evaluating the various amps in my stable yet although the PS Audios just went up for sale. They had poor synergy with the YGs. The Pass 260.8s and Parasound JC1+s are probably the only other amps out there interesting in my price range. I wonder which one is warmer, as this speaker requires that.

Well, I could have told you that! Just be glad they didn’t pass DC and destroy your speakers!

The 260.8’s are fabulous with a touch of warmth. Can’t speak to the JC1+’s as I haven’t heard them yet. They are monsters whereas the 260.8’s are a more manageable size.


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Originally Posted by hongkong

Thank you very much.
I don't know the 3.6, but I know 3.6r.
Thanks for your advice.
How to break in this magnepan, please ? Thanks.

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Play some dynamic classical music various types of music often. But they will breakin just fine after about 75 to 100 hours of play time. You will notice that they will sound tight and there may not be much bass. The sound will change as the hours pile up.

I'm very happy, I have received my Magnepan 3.7i two days ago.
It's a great combination with Jeff Rowland Model 625 (First version)
I listen them since two days...So they run 4 hours yesterday and 16 hours today...
It's fabulous !

Originally Posted by audio.bill

Hello... The answer to your question is an enthusiastic YES regarding the Magnepan 3.7i since I had that exact combo and it is exceptional! Effortless dynamics, smooth, musical, and spacious! Regarding the 20.7 I can't definitively say since I've never had them or heard them driven by the 625, but my guess would be that they'd be similarly well matched. Hope that helps.

Hey Audio.bill,

You have right. It's a great combination.
I'm very happy with them !
It's unbelievable.
I watch movies too : I use the bypass entry with home theater preamplifier.
I love this Magnepan !!!

During the day, the volume is between 70 and 80 !!!
During the night, the volume is near 60 on the Jeff Rowland Corus.

Cables are Furutech Lineflux and Speakerflux.

Thanks Bill again !