point-to-point, hand-wired tube amps

aKnyght

aKnyght

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who are your favorite manufacturers of point-to-point, hand-wired tube amps?

these hand-built amps that do not use PCBs (printed circuit boards) are getting rarer than unicorns, so i though i would poll the community here to see if there were any makers that i have overlooked.

a few extant brands that i have followed over the years are:

yamamoto soundcraft
kondo - AN japan
air tight
audio tekne
thoress
thomas mayer
bandwidth audio​
 
Ahem... PrimaLuna. Kicks the sonic butt for the price. Seriously. My Dialogue Premium HP EL34 integrated brings me more listening joy than ARC REF250SE monos with the 40th anni REF preamp did back in the day. Imagine that.
 
Sorry, I forgot that on this forum, if it doesn't cost as much as a luxury automobile, it isn't relevant...
 
I like my Yamamoto. That being said, it isn’t as quiet as I would like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
TheOctopus said:
Ahem... PrimaLuna. Kicks the sonic butt for the price. Seriously. My Dialogue Premium HP EL34 integrated brings me more listening joy than ARC REF250SE monos with the 40th anni REF preamp did back in the day. Imagine that.
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I know of several others that would agree...........
 
absolutely cannot believe i forgot shindo laboratory ...pretty much the progenitor and poster child for this category
 
Some VAC equipment is P2P. Viva is all P2P.

Triode corp of Japan is another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
TheOctopus said:
Ahem... PrimaLuna. Kicks the sonic butt for the price. Seriously. My Dialogue Premium HP EL34 integrated brings me more listening joy than ARC REF250SE monos with the 40th anni REF preamp did back in the day. Imagine that.
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great gear for sure! ...but, they make significant use of PCBs in addition to point-to-point wiring. so, only from from a purist's point of view i am going to keep them off my list.

;):)
 
aKnyght said:
great gear for sure! ...but, they make significant use of PCBs in addition to point-to-point wiring. so, only from from a purist's point of view i am going to keep them off my list.

;):)
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It is minimal. For things like let's not make the user learn how to use a Fluke multimeter and stick screwdrivers into pots for biasing of tubes... Or when a tube goes bad, it will light up an LED saying I am busted... Instead of taking out half the amp circuitry with a spark show like can happen with others?

By the way, I have also enjoyed Shindo. A Cortese SET F2a and Monbrison combo with Tannoy Canterbury SE's. As much as I liked Shindo, the PrimaLuna is less limiting and sounds awfully close to all that Shindo magic. With the PrimaLuna one can use anything from EL34 to KT150 with a flick of a switch, so it is truly a swiss army knife of an amp. 30w of SET to over 100w of tube power.


Do AudioNote/Kondo amps sound significantly better over a PrimaLuna? I sure hope they do but I really don't care LOL... and I doubt a blind listening test would reveal anything even remotely resembling over $100k worth of a difference. But we all know that.







Prima_Luna_iznutra-OPT.jpg
 
Mike said:
I like my Yamamoto. That being said, it isn’t as quiet as I would like.
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somewhat goes with the territory i suppose -- certainly, higher levels of measured noise than with similar quality SS amplification. question is whether or not it is audible? perhaps more so with ultra sensitive speakers, 105+ dB sensitivity?

also, i have heard you mention the same with respect to air tight -- although others have reported them being dead quiet ...so, maybe its a system thing?
 
Jadis is good stuff but comes at a price.



Conrad Johnson, as far as I can remember had an interesting approach of using as big of a PCB as possible for all the parts layout.


ebcdff0e7ed4303d3374d9656f69d0b2.JPG
 
With current tech I really don't see an issue with PCB's being used. They perform the same functions as hand running wires, but there is a case to be made that these in many ways can be more reliable. Less chances of a cold solder (I have seen the part pucker machines in action). I do not think there is a man or woman alive who are as accurate, precise and can make a more solid connection. Even the software used in designing and feeding the part pickers are more accurate.

This is one area where I do believe that an argument can be made that the new technologies and methods might actually be better.
 
Randy Myers said:
With current tech I really don't see an issue with PCB's being used. They perform the same functions as hand running wires, but there is a case to be made that these in many ways can be more reliable. Less chances of a cold solder (I have seen the part pucker machines in action). I do not think there is a man or woman alive who are as accurate, precise and can make a more solid connection. Even the software used in designing and feeding the part pickers are more accurate.

This is one area where I do believe that an argument can be made that the new technologies and methods might actually be better.
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certainly a 100% valid point -- and i don't see an issue either.

however, the counter argument that has been made is that P2P amps can be maintained / repaired as for long as there are qualified technicians on the planet ...and individual component parts such as caps, resistors, etc. are readily available. on the other hand, try getting anyone to repair a PCB anything without replacing a complete board whose future availability from the original manufacturer is questionable at best -- which at some future point leaves dumpster diving as the only viable source of replacement boards.

that being said, my purpose here is to simply compile a list of P2P amp manufacturers for anyone interested in this artisanal niche of the market.

:)
 
aKnyght said:
certainly a 100% valid point -- and i don't see an issue either.

however, the counter argument that has been made is that P2P amps can be maintained / repaired as for long as there are qualified technicians on the planet ...and individual component parts such as caps, resistors, etc. are readily available. on the other hand, try getting anyone to repair a PCB anything without replacing a complete board whose future availability from the original manufacturer is questionable at best -- which at some future point leaves dumpster diving as the only viable source of replacement boards.

that being said, my purpose here is to simply compile a list of P2P amp manufacturers for anyone interested in this artisanal niche of the market.

:)
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The trace conductors, if they go bad, can be fixed. I used to do just that back in my electronic tech days. Solder a jumper after scraping the trace. Other components are obviously removable from the PCB. Now, some of SMT (surface mount technology) chips, resistors, etc can be a real pain and so the whole board may need swapping out. In any case, obviously the old school, P2P wiring is simpler to repair but there is a limit to what can be achieved in terms of features and functions with such. Tube sockets should never reside on the PCB but some manufacturers do exactly that.... heat is not kind on that scheme over time.
 
aKnyght said:
certainly a 100% valid point -- and i don't see an issue either.

however, the counter argument that has been made is that P2P amps can be maintained / repaired as for long as there are qualified technicians on the planet ...and individual component parts such as caps, resistors, etc. are readily available. on the other hand, try getting anyone to repair a PCB anything without replacing a complete board whose future availability from the original manufacturer is questionable at best -- which at some future point leaves dumpster diving as the only viable source of replacement boards.
:)
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Some valid comments here--I bet I'm not the only one posting who has not run into situations as mentioned --

Potted line and phono stages/Potted Power supply filter blocks--Mfg no longer in business and no way of replacing nor gaining access to the components.

Take look inside any early Levinson PreAmps and see the butchers jobs some cowboys have resorted to get the things going after the Modules failed.

Wilson Xovers are/were potted but not such a priority.

Case in point I bought an Infinity DSP Amp from Arnie Nudell when they first came out--12 months later it died --or rather big Black potted box inside did and they no longer had any nor made anymore.

I contributed to Landfill.

Bruce
 
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