Newbie needs tube amp tip

RedFence

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Looking for a tube amp to power upgraded Klipsch Fortes or Heresy's. Hoping to replicate the mojo of my guitar tube amps for a very live sound, warts and all. The room is 60×25 with an 8 foot ceiling with one long side all glass. So, hoping to get big, room-filling imaging and soundstage. Max budget is $3K, whether integrated or separates, but happy to spend $500 if it gets the job done. Any advice for this newbie appreciated. Thx.
 
Are you really sure you want to move to a tube amp?

Even with 100+ dB horn speakers, I moved away from SET amps to solid state about 3 years ago and, after a multi-amp home testing period, I settled on an amp that provides every bit of like-like and goosebump-inducing sound as a SET - and it's not a Class A as I was expecting, but a fantastic value Class D one. I now listen to far more music than ever before and have no need to worry about tube ageing or my electricity bill!
 
Are you really sure you want to move to a tube amp?

I think so. Admittedly, my predilection for tubes is based on playing through 100+ guitar amps over the past 40 years, which maybe doesn't translate. Don't get me wrong, to me, nothing beats a Roland JC 120 at what it does, and it's an awesome sound--just not what I'm looking for. Nor am I looking for a wooly beast with 40db of hum (though I dig that in a '59 Fender Bassman). My current amp, a Marantz 2270, is a wonderful solid state amp, but I'm dumping my very meh 901s and am taken with the vintage Klipsch shtick, and I've read (over and over) that they like tube amps. So, if you were to indulge a nostalgic twat and recommend a tube amp, what might it be?
 
I owned Cornwall IVs for a period. I preferred the sound of a PP tube amp over SET, esp if you want controlled bass and extended treble. if you're on a budget the Dynaco st70 w/ EL34/6CA7 and later kit clones sound really good on them, so do amps using EL84/6BQ5 tubes. I have a vintage Scott 222 integrated with 6QB5s tubes that sounded really good on the Klipsch, it didnt leave me wanting.
 
I have a vintage Scott 222 integrated with 6QB5s tubes that sounded really good on the Klipsch, it didnt leave me wanting.

Did some quick reading on that unit, and it looks like an excellent fit for what I'm looking for, including the phono input, as vinyl is 80% of my diet. Many thanks. As for the ABCD variations, any preference?
 
Did some quick reading on that unit, and it looks like an excellent fit for what I'm looking for, including the phono input, as vinyl is 80% of my diet. Many thanks. As for the ABCD variations, any preference?

I have the "c" model. I was told to shy away from the D model, trying to recall why. Main thing to look for or do when you get one is replace the selenium rectifier with a modern silicon equivalent.
 
Did some quick reading on that unit, and it looks like an excellent fit for what I'm looking for, including the phono input, as vinyl is 80% of my diet. Many thanks. As for the ABCD variations, any preference?

Red, something I would suggest is looking into an Audio Note Kit tube amp or integrated amp. These are based on the very well-regarded Audio Note amps and preamps, DACs etc. And, as kits they are affordable and provide excellent audio quality for the money.

If you're open to an integrated amp, which I think could well meet your needs, check out this really nice 300B-based ANK integrated amp for ~$2500-$3500, depending on the parts specification.

https://ankaudiokits.com/product/kit1-kit1-10-300b-integrated-amplifier/

While it's 8.5 Wpc, if you're using Klipsch speakers (the Heresy's efficiency is 96 dB/1watt), that's plenty of power to drive your speakers to very loud listening levels without breakup or distortion.

Altnernatively, you could build up a really nice EL34 amp for just around two grand that will provide 35Wpc.
https://ankaudiokits.com/product/el34-integrated-power-stereo-amp/

Personally, for your use-case and requirements, I'd be all over these. Plus, they'd be a lot of fun to build up.

And, they are going to sound WAY better than anything you'll likely find used at around these price points (e.g., an old Dyna ST-70, etc.) They will also be more reliable as you'll have an amp with new parts.

Get an Schiit Mani phono stage for $149, and you're good to go:
Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California

Cheers.
 
Alternatively, with respect to "bang for the buck", in my experience it's really tough to beat Schiit Audio products.

Here's some alternatives if you're open to a great-sounding combination tube and solid state set-up from a company with an excellent reputation for superb circuit-topology designs, quality parts and manufacturing and customer service and support, and excellent-sounding products.

Saga tube preamp for $399:
Key Specs:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 3Hz-200KHz, -3dB
THD: <0.001%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS
IMD: <0.001%, CCIR (active stage)
SNR: >108db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Output Impedance: 180 ohms
Maximum Output: >10V RMS

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California

Gjallarhorn power amp for $299
Key specs:
Stereo, 8 Ohms: 10W RMS per channel
Stereo, 4 Ohms: 15W RMS per channel
Mono, 8 ohms: 30W RMS
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.01db, 3Hz-500KHz, +/-3dB
THD: <0.004%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS into 8 ohms
IMD: <0.005%, CCIR, at 1V RMS into 8 ohms
SNR: >117dB, unweighted, referenced to full output
Damping Factor: >100 into 8 ohms, 20-20kHz
Gain: 10 (20dB)
Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in Texas and California

Add the Mani phono stage I referenced above for $149 and a you're good to go all in for only...$850. 👍

And, honestly for $850, all in, I doubt you'll be able to find a set-up that sounds better than this, as well as having a new product warrantys (the Saga+ and Gjallarhorn have a 5 year warranty) and excellent customer support for service and repair.
 
> I'm dumping my very meh 901s and am taken with the vintage Klipsch shtick, and I've read (over and over) that they like tube amps. So, if you were to indulge a nostalgic twat and recommend a tube amp, what might it be?

Well if you are buying vintage speakers and are prepared to listen to vintage sound, then vintage amplifier seems to be a logical choice!

I've been using "modern" horn speakers since 2002 and indeed took note of the "horns need tubes" theory for the first 17 years of ownership, using SET amps from Art Audio and Consonance, mainly 845-based. Also used OTL and other tube amps.

As I mentioned earlier I decided to look carefully at modern amps and how they would get my speakers sounding. After buying or borrowing a dozen SS amps of various classes, I opted for a first-class Class D amp. Now, 4 years later, I have no regrets and indeed recently bought a pair of Class D monos, built by a highly respected tube amp brand. The owner has admitted that he's "seen the light" regarding tube amps and their high prices and unacceptable use of power. He claims his modestly priced Class D amps sound better than any of his mega-bucks OTL tube amps.

Your decision is of course just that and I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise, but I'm certainly not going back to tubes myself, now that Class D is so cost-effective and offers such great sound - even with horn speakers!
 
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Not much respect lost on those OTL’s mate , being bettered by a class D amp says it all, now Kindly recommend a Toob amp or not for the lonely soul looking for one ..



Regards
 
Another option take a look at Cary Audio, the SLY80 offers both SET & PP from one amp. They also offer hybrids if liking tube flavor but wanting more power.

Welcome to AS
 
Not much respect lost on those OTL’s mate , being bettered by a class D amp says it all, now Kindly recommend a Toob amp or not for the lonely soul looking for one ..

Regards

Do some research on modern Class D amps. Old designs such as Tripath were pioneers in the same way early digital cameras were - and are rubbish. Who doesn't use digital cameras now they've evolved? If you can't find a Class D amp to match anything else at its price , you are just not looking! Your loss I have to say.
 
Do some research on modern Class D amps. Old designs such as Tripath were pioneers in the same way early digital cameras were - and are rubbish. Who doesn't use digital cameras now they've evolved? If you can't find a Class D amp to match anything else at its price , you are just not looking! Your loss I have to say.


I think most of us are sick and tired of you turning threads into a Class D rant, argument. It's like you get some type of kick back. It's a dead horse and the OP is not looking for that. BFN
 
Do some research on modern Class D amps. Old designs such as Tripath were pioneers in the same way early digital cameras were - and are rubbish. Who doesn't use digital cameras now they've evolved? If you can't find a Class D amp to match anything else at its price , you are just not looking! Your loss I have to say.

Hear here , hope to learn alot more about class D, aside is their a Tooby Amp you can recommend ..?? :)


Regards
 
Hear here , hope to learn alot more about class D, aside is their a Tooby Amp you can recommend ..?? :)

Appreciate all the input, and apologies stirring the tube/class D pot. And, yes, the room is a bit weird, as my kitchen, dining and living room are all one big box. It also leaves me with no real corners to place speakers unless I put one in front of the dishwasher and another next to a woodstove. This had me considering Allison One's or Two, as I understand they go against a wall. But they appear to few relatively few and far between. Thx again.
 
No reason for you to apologize. Our apologies to you that the Class D was even mentioned and the extraneous discussion posted.

Appreciate all the input, and apologies stirring the tube/class D pot. And, yes, the room is a bit weird, as my kitchen, dining and living room are all one big box. It also leaves me with no real corners to place speakers unless I put one in front of the dishwasher and another next to a woodstove. This had me considering Allison One's or Two, as I understand they go against a wall. But they appear to few relatively few and far between. Thx again.
 
Hi Red - I've owned several Klipsch Heritage speakers. I've tried SS and tube amps on them. I missed the tube magic when trying the non-tube amps of all kinds.

The speakers ROCK with nice tube amps. The tube amps I've owned are more expensive than the price point you are looking for, but you will have no problem finding one in your price point that rocks and sounds great.

One of the best sounding tube amps I had with Klipsch was the Luxman LX-380 tube integrated.

Are there any you've already set your sights on we may be able to help with?

Also, don't worry about their "unacceptable use of power" as brought up earlier. Just have a chuckle and move along finding the amp that YOU like regardless of what others try to tell you.
 
Bottlehead makes a great 6V6 preamp kit, the Moreplay, that would pair well with a transparent class D amp like the Starkrimson. You’d definitely get the 6V6 flavor.

The AudioNote Kits EL34 push-pull amps are very clean. Very good amps and not that difficult to build.

Having said that, I definitely prefer SET amps to push-pull. If you need extra power, try parallel single ended amps. PSE 2A3 or 300B amps would work great with those speakers.
 
Hear here , hope to learn alot more about class D, aside is their a Tooby Amp you can recommend ..?? :)


Regards

I think so. Admittedly, my predilection for tubes is based on playing through 100+ guitar amps over the past 40 years, which maybe doesn't translate. Don't get me wrong, to me, nothing beats a Roland JC 120 at what it does, and it's an awesome sound--just not what I'm looking for. Nor am I looking for a wooly beast with 40db of hum (though I dig that in a '59 Fender Bassman). My current amp, a Marantz 2270, is a wonderful solid state amp, but I'm dumping my very meh 901s and am taken with the vintage Klipsch shtick, and I've read (over and over) that they like tube amps. So, if you were to indulge a nostalgic twat and recommend a tube amp, what might it be?

OK here's the skinny. The sound that any amplifier has is caused by its distortion spectra and how the distortion behaves over frequency. If the distortion rises with frequency this is likely to cause the amp to sound harsher and brighter, and is a problem that most solid state amps made prior to 2005 or so had. Many still have it today.

Tube amps have more distortion overall but the distortion they make tends to be the lower orders, the 2nd and 3rd, which are innocuous to the human ear. But they can mask higher orders and because tubes generally tend to have less feedback, the distortion rising with frequency thing is less of a problem (but its still there).

So the fact that tubes sound nice and smooth because the lower ordered harmonics are masking the higher orders is what has kept tubes in business the last 64 years since being declared 'obsolete'. Clearly the declaration was premature!

However if you were reading closely one fact is apparent: the sound of the amp is in fact its distortion signature. What this means is that if you can have two different amps with the same signature, they will sound the same. So that's where class D comes in, because its possible to get a class D amp to sound very much like tubes. If the circuit is properly designed, the non-linearities in the amp will result in lower ordered harmonics. Its also possible for class D amps to have simultaneously very high amounts of feedback yet still get that ruler flat distortion vs frequency curve I mentioned, which is far more important than the old 'THD' spec, which tells you almost nothing about the sound of the amp.

Just so we're clear about Distortion vs Frequency, all zero feedback tube amps have a ruler flat curve across the audio band.

Also FWIW: the Marantz 2270 is a classic 70s Japanese design (I've serviced many of them) but it has the distortion rise problem. Just so you know. Any solid state amp that old does!

I can go into depth about how class D amps can sound like excellent tube amps if you need more technical information. Its also important to know that not all class D amps sound the same just like not all class A amps sound the same, since distortion is what causes their sonic signature. The technology should support the sound of what we here such that it sounds like music rather than electronics.

My speakers are 98dB and 16 Ohms, designed for tube amps but I don't miss the tubes at all running my class D amps on them- I get the same smooth mids and highs with the same musical involvement- and its easier to make out details like vocals, room ambience and so on.

But since some people seem peeved about such things being said, here are some tube amps to consider well within your price constraints:
1) Refurbished Dynaco Mark 4s: these are monoblock versions of the classic Dynaco ST70 and don't have the reliability problem of the tube rectifier. 35 Watts/channel. They are rare and will need refurbishment (power supply filter capacitors and the like replaced)
2) Refurbished or new Dynaco ST70. A classic amp; the weakness is they should have had dual rectifiers for reliability.
3) Refurbished Dynaco Stereo 35. This amp is 17.5 Watts/channel and a bit more linear than its bigger brothers with wider bandwidth and lower distortion.
4) Refurbished Harmon Kardon Citation 2, another solid classic, perhaps one of the best tube amps from the glory days of tubes. 50 Watts/channel, perhaps more than you need but a very solid performer and works well on the Klipsch.
5) Any RM Labs (Roger Modjesky) amp, such as the RM10. Might need refurbishment depending on age. Roger (RIP) passed away a few years ago and was one of the few actual engineers building tube amps for high end audio. His designs are supported by Electra Fidelity.
6) Manley EL84 amps. Well supported and nice construction.

With your speakers you really don't need a lot of power. Its a simple fact that the smaller the tube amp, the more likely it will be to sound better. This is mostly due to the output transformer having wider bandwidth if designed for lower power.

I would stay away from SETs. They only make about 20% usable power as opposed to 95% usable power of a good PP amp. If you push them past that 20% level, they start to sound 'dynamic' due to how the higher ordered harmonics showing up on transients interact with the ear (which uses higher ordered harmonics to tell how loud sounds are). Its really just distortion masquerading as 'dynamics'. You'll find (as I did) when you have cleaner power its more likely you'll use it- its the mark of the best systems that they don't sound 'loud'.
 
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