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  1. #1
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    New amp / recommendation

    Hello everyone. My system is composed as follows:

    Analog Source: EAT Forte S Turntable, F Note 12 MKii tonearm and JO No. 8 cartridge.

    · Digital Source: Rossini dac 2.0, Rossini Master Clock, Rossini Transport.

    · Preamp: Audio Research Reference 6.

    · Power Amps: Audio Research Reference 250 SE mono blocks.

    · Phono Preamp: D’Agostino Momentum Phono Stage.

    · Speakers: Wilson Audio Sasha DAW.

    · Cables: Transparent Audio XL and Transparent Audio Isolator.

    · Headphone Amp: Carbon KKGSHV.

    · Headphones: Stax 009s and Audeze CRBN.

    · Music Server: Nucleus Roon Plus.

    · IsoAcoustic isolation feet below each component (including Gaia under the speakers, which are on marble slants).

    · Solid Steel Hi-fi Rack.

    I like my current system, but I am wondering whether I should replace my ARC amps with SS amps in order to improve speed and resolution, while maintaining separation, air, spaciousness and soundstage. In this regard I’d probably keep my Ref 6 preamp. On the other hand, I am conscious that there is a synergy between electronics of the same brand.

    Here are my current options:

    - Gryphon Essence Monos
    - Boulder 2160
    - Pass Labs xp160.8
    - Dagostino Momentum 400 monos

    What would you recommend?

    I’m also considering whether adding one or two subwoofers would improve SQ.

    Thanks in advance.
    Franco

  2. #2
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    After hearing numerous systems with Wilson Audio speakers, the two that stood out IMO were both using the Ref 6 with a Mark Levinson power amp.
    (not sure of the model).
    Those using tube power amps were "softer" in the presentation. While the ML combo was big, fast, powerful and dynamic.
    My System
    Acoustic Revive RTP-4
    Innuos Pulsar
    Lampizator BALTIC4
    Cary SLP-05
    Pass XA30.5 or
    Line Magnetic 845ia
    Reference 3A Reflector's
    Pr SVS SB3000 Subs
    Cables & Tubes "subject to change without notification".
    Complete system on battery power/solar
    Core Audio Design Rack
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  3. #3
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Buongiorno Franco ,

    Welcome to the forum! I am sure you will enjoy the friendly discussions here.

    Concerning your question, I would also recommend a brand which is just around the corner from Milan: Nagra. I have heard several times the combination of Wilson Audio and Nagra (e.g. during the Munich fair) and have always found it very natural:

    Nagra Wilson Audio Alexia 2 Kubala-Sosna @ High End Munich 2018 - YouTube

    The Nagra HD amp should fit your bill quite well:

    High End Audio Amplifier - HD Amp | For ultimate high-end systems

    Even the Italian Nagra distributor is the same as for Wilson Audio and DCS, Audio Natali

    Un saluto
    Martin
    Speaker: Gauder Akustik Berlina RC7 Diamond Black Edition DV
    Power-Amp: Grandinote Demone
    Pre-Amp: Grandinote Domino
    Digital: TAD D1000 MkII; Auralic Aries G1 with modified LPS; QNAP HS 251+ (via Wifi)
    Cables: Wireworld Gold and Platinum Eclipse
    Power: Dedicated power line and dedicated grounding; Furutech wall socket; Furman IT Ref 16 IE; HMS Energia SL/OV
    Rack: Bassocontinuo Reference Line Accordeon

  4. #4
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Frankie, nice equipment list but you omitted one big piece of info.......... your room ! Also what volumes do you usually listen at ?
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  5. #5
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    My favorite pairings are: D’Agostino Momentum, Boulder 1160/2160, Constellation anything (in no particular order).

    I do not care for the ARC pairing with Wilson personally, but YMMV.

    A sleeper pairing is SimAudio and I bet the Classe Delta series would be good too.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  6. #6
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Thanks Martin. Yes Luca is a friend.

  7. #7
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Thanks Dave! So the room is approximately 16 feet x 12 feet and I never listen to high volume (say max 45 db). Actually, I also like to listen at low volume at night.

  8. #8
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    Thanks Martin. Yes Luca is a friend.
    I am sure Luca will be able to recommend a great amp for your great WA Sasha DAW.

    Will you join the Munich fair this year?
    Speaker: Gauder Akustik Berlina RC7 Diamond Black Edition DV
    Power-Amp: Grandinote Demone
    Pre-Amp: Grandinote Domino
    Digital: TAD D1000 MkII; Auralic Aries G1 with modified LPS; QNAP HS 251+ (via Wifi)
    Cables: Wireworld Gold and Platinum Eclipse
    Power: Dedicated power line and dedicated grounding; Furutech wall socket; Furman IT Ref 16 IE; HMS Energia SL/OV
    Rack: Bassocontinuo Reference Line Accordeon

  9. #9
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    One of my favorite pairings with Wilson is with ARC but the amps were the M series 160M, not sure which model amp was used this year at the show,, I don't know how that compares with the Ref 250. I also heard a nice set up with Doshi.

    The solid state amps I have heard with Wilson, like D'Agostino, weren't bad just not my taste.
    Actually, the Sim Audio set up was pretty good. It's just nothing images like the ARC.

    Depends on where your listening priorities lay. The 160M control I felt would rival some solid state amps.

    I recently heard Nagra for the first time and was smitten, I'd love to be able to have one.

    Hard to predict sometimes how brands will mesh.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  10. #10
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophon View Post
    I


    Will you join the Munich fair this year?
    Not sure.

  11. #11
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    @Mr Peabody, I’ve heard that the 160S is way better that the 160M. Personally I am looking to add dynamics and speed while retaining the air and tridimensionality that I have now. Hopefully a good SS amp paired with the Ref 6 will help achieving this objective.

  12. #12
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Anybody has experience in Gryphon Essence paired with an ARC preamp and Wilson Audio speakers?

  13. #13
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    I have no experience with the Gryphon with ARC, just commenting, knowing each character that would be interesting to hear what happens with that combo.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  14. #14
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    Thanks Dave! So the room is approximately 16 feet x 12 feet and I never listen to high volume (say max 45 db). Actually, I also like to listen at low volume at night.
    Frankie, with a room that size and your relatively low listening levels I can't imagine being any more happy than you already are ! As a happy Pass customer I doubt you wouldn't be happy in that direction as well.

    FWIW I've listen to your exact speakers driven by these... Products_Apollo.htm and I must say it was stellar but again, better than your ARC's ??
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  15. #15
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Boulder 2160 or move up to the 3060. I had Boulder 2060 and 3060 with Wilson XLF for several years. Still have the 3060 but with YG speakers now. Clarity and soundstage width are expansive with the Boulder, much better than the ARC amps.

  16. #16

    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    I never listen to high volume (say max 45 db).
    ???
    Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but if it is not mistake, I would say that to hear at 45 db you don't need a high end system.

  17. #17
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    ???
    Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but if it is not mistake, I would say that to hear at 45 db you don't need a high end system.
    I meant less than half volume. Not a helpful comment though …

  18. #18

    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    I meant less than half volume. Not a helpful comment though …
    Just saving your money!
    But i´m glad you clarified. Half of the volume, probably, has nothing to do with 45db.
    To hear at 45 db the best is a vintage Pioneer or Sony amplifier with loudness button.

    45db=45km/h.
    Nobody needs a Ferrari to drive at 45 km/h

  19. #19
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    Just saving your money!
    But i´m glad you clarified. Half of the volume, probably, has nothing to do with 45db.
    To hear at 45 db the best is a vintage Pioneer or Sony amplifier with loudness button.

    45db=45km/h.
    Nobody needs a Ferrari to drive at 45 km/h
    Have you ever heard a high end system? My guess would be you have not.

    On the original question, the Boulder 2160 will have excellent synergy with the ARC Ref6. I had an ARC Ref40 for years with my Boulder amps -- it worked really well.

  20. #20
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    New amp / recommendation

    I just set my volume to 45db on my SPL meter. I highly doubt that is accurate. It’s barely playing above a whisper.

    Download Audio Tools or a similar SPL meter to your phone. Sit in your chair and measure. 65 is soft for me. 85 is normal for me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  21. #21

    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I just set my volume to 45db on my SPL meter. It’s barely playing above a whisper.
    That's my point Mike
    But that's ok, it's just a misunderstanding.

  22. #22
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    What I don’t like about the arc 250s is their inability to reproduce rock music with the right pace and rhythm. Wondering whether a SS amp paired with the Ref 6 preamp would be able to do that while retaining the ability to be as spacious and sweet as the 250s. Does a best of both worlds exist?
    Last edited by Frankie67; May 12, 2022 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Wrong post

  23. #23
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    Does a best of both worlds exist?
    Hi Frankie,

    Since this week, I have the CanEver LaScala power amp in the house (on a loaner basis). This Italian amp is a real beast with 120 w in Class A and a damping factor of >1000. It comes in 2 pieces and the power supply unit alone weights a hefty 38 kg (plus the amp chassis with another 29 kg).

    The sound is extremely spacious, airy with very good pace and body. I really like it a lot.

    It has already got some rave reviews like in Mono& Stereo: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2019/1...mp-review.html

    If you have the possibility, you should really listen to them with our WA speakers!

    Regards
    Martin
    Speaker: Gauder Akustik Berlina RC7 Diamond Black Edition DV
    Power-Amp: Grandinote Demone
    Pre-Amp: Grandinote Domino
    Digital: TAD D1000 MkII; Auralic Aries G1 with modified LPS; QNAP HS 251+ (via Wifi)
    Cables: Wireworld Gold and Platinum Eclipse
    Power: Dedicated power line and dedicated grounding; Furutech wall socket; Furman IT Ref 16 IE; HMS Energia SL/OV
    Rack: Bassocontinuo Reference Line Accordeon

  24. #24
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Guys, I've been told that, although they are very efficient (sensitivity rating is 91db), Sasha DAWs are difficult speakers to drive as their minimum impedance is 2.48 ohms. The same guy recommended to look for amplifiers with high current capability (30 amps per channel as a minimum). Which amp would qualify as a high current amp?
    Analog Source: EAT Forte S Turntable, F Note 12 MKii tonearm and JO No. 8 cartridge. Digital Source: Rossini dac 2.0, Rossini Master Clock, Rossini Transport.
    Preamp: Audio Research Reference 6. Phono Preamp: D’Agostino Momentum Phono Stage. Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 250 SE mono blocks. Speakers: Wilson Audio Sasha DAW.
    Cables: Transparent Audio XL and Transparent Audio Isolator.
    Headphone Amp: Carbon KKGSHV. Headphones: Stax 009s and Audeze CRBN.
    Music Server: Nucleus Roon Plus.
    Other: IsoAcoustic isolation feet below each component (including Gaia under the speakers, which are on marble slants). Solid Steel Hi-fi Rack.

  25. #25
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Definitely, Boulder & D'Agostino. I thought Pass was but on another thread someone said they may not be best for very low impedance. That may vary on model, in an interview Pass indicated building amps to drive low impedances is what got him started. Not that familiar with Gryphon except hearing them a couple times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie67 View Post
    Guys, I've been told that, although they are very efficient (sensitivity rating is 91db), Sasha DAWs are difficult speakers to drive as their minimum impedance is 2.48 ohms. The same guy recommended to look for amplifiers with high current capability (30 amps per channel as a minimum). Which amp would qualify as a high current amp?
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  26. #26
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    Re: New amp / recommendation

    Js audio in maryland outside of dc has a pair of Chronosonic XVX‘s and ive herd them in their room with Boulder and D'Agostino. i was most impressed when they had them hooked up to the boulder 2110 pre and McIntosh mc901 tube section. Interesting combo i bought the mc901s.

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