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  1. #1
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    Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Hello all. I have a smallish room, 15 x 18, 10’ ceilings, opening to a 45’ expanse across the home. I have been told by a dealer that the Diablo 300 is not a good match for my Salon 2’s, a claim that I am having a hard time accepting. He is trying to steer me to Luxman separates (c700u and m900u) arguing I need a high current amp for the Salon 2’s and the Gryphon is a mismatch.
    He also shrugged off Levinson 536 monos as well, saying they will sound thin. Has anyone here heard the above pairings, and how do they compare?

  2. #2
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I've heard an ML 534 stereo driving Salon 2s in a room about twice the size of yours at a dealer. No problem. I have a Diablo 300, and although I haven't heard it with Salons, I have a hard time believing they would be anything but excellent. Does your dealer, per chance, carry either Mark Levinson or Gryphon?

    Mike has had experience with the Diablo and maybe the Salons and may wish to comment.

  3. #3
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my local shop carries neither. I have read everything I can find online about the Diablo, and it gets nothing but glowing praise. I have never heard it though. As much as I would like to go the Luxman route, I really cannot afford to shell out that kind of dough right now for separates. I wanted to keep box count low, and go with an end game integrated. I simply cannot believe an amp that puts out 950 watts into 2 ohms could not drive the Salons adequately.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    A couple more integrateds to consider would be the Pass INT-250 and the Boulder 866.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I was looking hard at the Boulder 866, and in fact missed one recently on agon. I like that the Boulder has streaming capability, again just a big question whether it could handle the Salons.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I used a hegel h360 thats rated at 250/425 with a 4000 damping factor and it couldn’t get those woofers woofin. The dealer was using the ML separates when I demoed the salon 2’s and when I came on this site asking for advice Mike posted on my thread 500 watts minimum! When I contacted REVEL via email I was told the same thing, 500 watts!! The gent that bought mine uses a couple MC601’s and says the clipping lights will start flashing when he gets rockin!!!
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

  7. #7
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Yeah they are power hungry for sure. I had a pair of Bryston 28B SST 2 monos (1000w) monos on them for a while, and although they got the job done, I never warmed up to the Bryston sound.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    From Stereophile's June 2008 Salon2 review:

    "I drove the Salon2s with various solid-state amplifiers, including a Mark Levinson No.334 (125Wpc into 8 ohms), a Krell FPB-600c (600Wpc into 8 ohms), and Bryston 28B-SST monoblocks (1300W into 8 ohms). The ML No.334 demonstrated impressive dynamics, playing huge deep-bass transients from synthesizer music, sustained organ-pedal chords, and bass-drum notes at high volumes. The Krell FPB-600c seemed to have limitless deep-bass extension. And the Bryston 28B-SSTs drove the Salon2s to 105dB peak levels (at 8') with no evidence of distorting."

  9. #9
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I remember that review, and it was probably why I bought the Bryston monos so many years ago. Interesting that he found the 334 apparently sounding good at 125 wpc!

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    If you look at the speaker positioning in that review, from memory they were 57" apart and something like 8' from the front wall that in hindsight made me wonder if I could have tried harder to get room support for bass response.
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I have Studio2 and have used them with Levinson 531H mono, Mac MC452. Then i downsized to an integrated, Pass INT-150 to reduce box count. Now I am happy with the Pass INT-250. I would consider the beast Diablo
    Jim
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Q3Di View Post
    I have Studio2 and have used them with Levinson 531H mono, Mac MC452. Then i downsized to an integrated, Pass INT-150 to reduce box count. Now I am happy with the Pass INT-250. I would consider the beast Diablo
    I also have Studio2's, totally different animal than the Salon's. I drive mine with a pair of Pass X260.8's
    Cheers ! …. Dave

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I suspect your dealer is just trying to sell what he has.

    I think Diablo would do the job.

    My friend had Salons for a long time and I have heard them with several amps. First he had the 532h and it drove them fine in a large open room. I heard the Salons with the 536's and they do not sound thin at all and will make the Salons dance. However, ML doesn't have an integrated I'd recommend for Salon, even the 585 don't have quite a large enough power supply. It's not so much the power rating as the current and power supply.
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I suspect your dealer is just trying to sell what he has.

    I think Diablo would do the job.

    My friend had Salons for a long time and I have heard them with several amps. First he had the 532h and it drove them fine in a large open room. I heard the Salons with the 536's and they do not sound thin at all and will make the Salons dance. However, ML doesn't have an integrated I'd recommend for Salon, even the 585 don't have quite a large enough power supply. It's not so much the power rating as the current and power supply.
    Confirming much of what I thought. I had actually been considering using a 585 as a “poor man’s” Levinson preamp driving the 536 or 534. Thanks for responding. For roughly the same 20k ish ballpark, I could do the Luxmans used. Or save a huge chunk and bite on a used Diablo.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Mine are basically 48 inches off back wall and 67 inches apart. They sound excellent in that room, even with a garbage front end.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I wouldn't worry too much about the Diablo overpowering the room vs the speakers. I think the speakers are much more apt to overpower your room. I wouldn't overlook a really good medium sized bookshelf speaker like a Harbeth or Tannoy. The speaker I have is superb in small to medium rooms. As you may have noticed I have the Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers. I think they are just killer sounding speakers with great synergy with the Pass int 250and are perfection for small to medium rooms. BTW, the first time I heard a D300 it almost knocked me right out of my chair. Fabulous speaker. Although I ended up buying a Pass int 250, that D300 is a superb sounding amp. My room is 27' x 16' and the Pass int 250 just fit my particular application a little better. As I've said before, I love my int 250. But I wouldn't hesitate using the D300 in your room. It is a seriously great sounding amp. As I said, I would be more concerned about having too much speaker. But, that's my 2 cents.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I've seen some good prices for used 534 but they aren't always up for sale.

    ML does have apreamp in the $10k range in their 5nnn series gear. Also, look at Bricasti, Brian the designer was with Levinson at one point, I believe during theMadrigal years. I have liked the gear I've heard.

    Not the same type sound as Levinson, leaning more toward Gryphon in some aspects, the ATI amps will drive the Salons into the ground and very reasonable. I had a 3000 on my Revel F52's and thought the were going to launch into space. The 6000 series is Kessler's signature series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makofkalaw View Post
    Confirming much of what I thought. I had actually been considering using a 585 as a “poor man’s” Levinson preamp driving the 536 or 534. Thanks for responding. For roughly the same 20k ish ballpark, I could do the Luxmans used. Or save a huge chunk and bite on a used Diablo.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about the Diablo overpowering the room vs the speakers. I think the speakers are much more apt to overpower your room. I wouldn't overlook a really good medium sized bookshelf speaker like a Harbeth or Tannoy. The speaker I have is superb in small to medium rooms. As you may have noticed I have the Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers. I think they are just killer sounding speakers with great synergy with the Pass int 250and are perfection for small to medium rooms. BTW, the first time I heard a D300 it almost knocked me right out of my chair. Fabulous speaker. Although I ended up buying a Pass int 250, that D300 is a superb sounding amp. My room is 27' x 16' and the Pass int 250 just fit my particular application a little better. As I've said before, I love my int 250. But I wouldn't hesitate using the D300 in your room. It is a seriously great sounding amp. As I said, I would be more concerned about having too much speaker. But, that's my 2 cents.
    There is no chance of overpowering that room because I neglected to mention that the left side opens through double doors to a large adjacent room, and behind the listening position, the rear is open some 45’ across the downstairs of my home. Nothing but breathing room around them.

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Makofkalaw View Post
    There is no chance of overpowering that room because I neglected to mention that the left side opens through double doors to a large adjacent room, and behind the listening position, the rear is open some 45’ across the downstairs of my home. Nothing but breathing room around them.
    That is a nice sized room. It opens up a lot of possibilities.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I've owned Salon 2's twice. I had Classe CAM 600's, Hegel, Pass and McIntosh.

    I now own a Diablo 300 driving my Kharmas. I wouldn't sell your Salons without giving the Diablo a chance to drive them. I think the Gryphon sound would match up very well to the Salons

    I'd love to hear your opinion if you do! Also,I've heard the Salons in a 10x10 room and they still sounded great.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I have a similarly powerful and excellent integrated amp to the Diablo 300, the Hegel H590, powering my Salon 2s, in an even smaller 12' x 14' room with excellent results. Like the Diablo 300, the Hegel H590 has quite the horsepower and damping factor to put a vice-grip on the woofers of the notoriously inefficient and hard to drive Salons. I first used an Hegel H390 that was left over from my previous system to drive the Salons, but the H390 fell short and wasn't able to control the bass on the Salons effectively. Yes, overall, the Salons and the H390 sounded magnificent together. But, the H590 took everything into the stratosphere!!! With the H590, I play my music at all volume levels with complete and utter enjoyment. The Salon/H590 is a sublime combo, and I'm sure you would get more of the same driving them with the Diablo 300. Happy listening.

  22. #22
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Welcome to AS kennymacc!
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  23. #23
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by kennymacc View Post
    I have a similarly powerful and excellent integrated amp to the Diablo 300, the Hegel H590, powering my Salon 2s, in an even smaller 12' x 14' room with excellent results. Like the Diablo 300, the Hegel H590 has quite the horsepower and damping factor to put a vice-grip on the woofers of the notoriously inefficient and hard to drive Salons. I first used an Hegel H390 that was left over from my previous system to drive the Salons, but the H390 fell short and wasn't able to control the bass on the Salons effectively. Yes, overall, the Salons and the H390 sounded magnificent together. But, the H590 took everything into the stratosphere!!! With the H590, I play my music at all volume levels with complete and utter enjoyment. The Salon/H590 is a sublime combo, and I'm sure you would get more of the same driving them with the Diablo 300. Happy listening.
    Good to hear although that is a small room for those speakers so it shouldn't be hard to pressurize.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  24. #24
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I don't think I heard the salon 2 tbh, What I heard was individual instruments in space not connected in any way, interesting but odd and the lack of a soundstage made listening to music a spectator sport. I was observing what the speakers were doing to the sounds instead of enjoying the music. It was cool, but not, I think indicative of what they actually do.
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

  25. #25
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    So I went ahead and finally acquired my Diablo 300 with dac option. What an interesting piece. It sounds pretty decent with the Salons in my room. I can say that it has almost enough power to handle the 2’s, but I have kicked in the protection circuitry a couple of times when things got very loud. Source is a Node, connected with a AQ diamond usb. Speaker cables are AQ rocket 33’s. The Node is on an ethernet connection. Suggestions for improving sq? Is. Shunyata Omega usb overkill? Should I spend that dough on a better streamer since I am using the dac in the Gryphon or
    would better cables (ethernet and usb) be money better spent? Need speaker cables as well. Great sounding integrated.
    Last edited by Makofkalaw; August 30, 2022 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Clarity

  26. #26
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Imo that amps deserves a far better streamer/DAC than the Node. AQ Diamond USB is very good, I wouldn't look to replace that until you have a better front end. Look at a Lumin T3 maybe, or something similar. Call Mike at Suncoast Audio, he's here in Florida.
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Delete
    Last edited by Makofkalaw; August 30, 2022 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Dbl post

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Edited my post to reflect that I am using the optional Gryphon dac. Node is just the streamer. Agree node is the weak link atm.
    Last edited by Makofkalaw; August 30, 2022 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Dbl post

  29. #29
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Makes things a little simpler. U2 Mini could be nice, or one of the Aurenders. Mike could sort you out easily.

    Looks like a really nice system in the making.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Thank you! I am hoping to really see what these speakers can do in my space. I have owned them for years, and enjoyed them, but never really paired them with commensurate level electronics, or more importantly, had them in an appropriate room. I am hoping to remedy that now, and put together something that my family and I can enjoy for many more years to come. My wife is enjoying this journey with me, and in no small part due to the Gryphon. She loves the sound paired with the Salons. 😃

  31. #31
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I agree, a better streamer is in order. There is a difference.

    I started out with the HEOS and also tried the Node, just streaming to then a Hegel DAC. Then I got my current preamp/DAC, I was not satisfied with the sound of streaming. It wasn't until getting my Aureander that I am now enjoying the sound of streaming. I also bought and sold a NAD 50.2 during my journey. Just not satisfied with it's sound. I personally love my Aurender but others may serve as well like Lumin or Innuos, I'm just not that familiar without having heard them in my set up.

    Congrats on the Diablo, I'd like to hear that combo.
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  32. #32
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I agree, a better streamer is in order. There is a difference.

    I started out with the HEOS and also tried the Node, just streaming to then a Hegel DAC. Then I got my current preamp/DAC, I was not satisfied with the sound of streaming. It wasn't until getting my Aureander that I am now enjoying the sound of streaming. I also bought and sold a NAD 50.2 during my journey. Just not satisfied with it's sound. I personally love my Aurender but others may serve as well like Lumin or Innuos, I'm just not that familiar without having heard them in my set up.

    Congrats on the Diablo, I'd like to hear that combo.
    Yes, better streamer for sure. I am thinking about going Aurender rather than Lumin, as Roon does not matter to me. For the money N20 looks like the sweet spot unless I win the lottery and can swing N30. What Aurender are you running?

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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I agree, a better streamer is in order. There is a difference.

    I started out with the HEOS and also tried the Node, just streaming to then a Hegel DAC. Then I got my current preamp/DAC, I was not satisfied with the sound of streaming. It wasn't until getting my Aureander that I am now enjoying the sound of streaming. I also bought and sold a NAD 50.2 during my journey. Just not satisfied with it's sound. I personally love my Aurender but others may serve as well like Lumin or Innuos, I'm just not that familiar without having heard them in my set up.

    Congrats on the Diablo, I'd like to hear that combo.
    ACS10, I missed that in your sig. 👍

  34. #34
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Congratulations on the Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC. I've owned mine going on two years now. I don't see any reason to replace this unless I downsize my system. I used the Lumin T2 with a little green computer to the Diablos Dac for about a year. Running Roon/Tidal/Qobuz. I recently switch to the HiFi Rose rs150b streamer just to change things up. I'm selling the T2 if you choose to go that way. There are a lot of great streaming options in todays market. If you or your room needs more from your system a couple of subs can add a lot if incorporated correctly. They can be tricky but also can give a big boost to a systems sound and ease of impact.
    Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
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  35. #35
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel View Post
    Congratulations on the Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC. I've owned mine going on two years now. I don't see any reason to replace this unless I downsize my system. I used the Lumin T2 with a little green computer to the Diablos Dac for about a year. Running Roon/Tidal/Qobuz. I recently switch to the HiFi Rose rs150b streamer just to change things up. I'm selling the T2 if you choose to go that way. There are a lot of great streaming options in todays market. If you or your room needs more from your system a couple of subs can add a lot if incorporated correctly. They can be tricky but also can give a big boost to a systems sound and ease of impact.
    I hear you on the subs. The Salon 2's have great bass response, but with them positioned as far from the rear wall like I have them, they sound somewhat thin. I pulled a single SVS PB4000 from my dedicated theater space into the two channel room, and have been messing around with that. It has shown some promise, but you are correct, it is tricky to dial it in. I will keep the T2 in mind. Thinking hard about Aurender N20 at the moment. I may need to plan a trip down to Suncoast to do some demoing. I live in NE Florida, so its only a few hours away.

  36. #36
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    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    That's a pretty powerful HT sub. I went with the smaller sealed sub due to my room size. I do like the app that is available with the SVS subs today. I can make multiple setups and just from the app change crossover or output. One thing I wish the app did was to link the two subs. Each sub you add is added to the app. It has been said that subs are often needed more because of the room than the speakers. I once had a pair of Revel F30 speakers that I wish I had added subs to. Really good midrange but lacked enough bass. I think I would have keep then much longer had I added a pair of subs. I also think more than one sub is needed in a room. If you look at some of the Rel subs configurations. They go crazy no matter the main speakers.
    Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
    Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
    Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
    CD/DVD: Oppo 205
    Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro

    Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events

  37. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Jacksonville
    Posts
    23

    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel View Post
    That's a pretty powerful HT sub. I went with the smaller sealed sub due to my room size. I do like the app that is available with the SVS subs today. I can make multiple setups and just from the app change crossover or output. One thing I wish the app did was to link the two subs. Each sub you add is added to the app. It has been said that subs are often needed more because of the room than the speakers. I once had a pair of Revel F30 speakers that I wish I had added subs to. Really good midrange but lacked enough bass. I think I would have keep then much longer had I added a pair of subs. I also think more than one sub is needed in a room. If you look at some of the Rel subs configurations. They go crazy no matter the main speakers.
    Yes, I like the SVS app as well. Very flexible. Would be better as you say if you could link the subs. I like the PB 4000 because you can plug the ports and change the sub tuning to run like a sealed sub. Best of both worlds. IT sounds pretty musical in either mode. Not slow or sluggish like ported subs of old.

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Auburn, Washington USA
    Posts
    419

    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    At one time I had the ultra 13 SVS sub. Great for HT but too big to move around. I figured if I'm going to plug the sub then I need sealed subs. I looked at the sb-2000 but decided on two sb-1000. For my room size they work very well. I did put two 4" yoga blocks under each sub to remove any vibration to the floor. That works really well. I don't often listen to music at high levels anymore. So, at a lower listening level twin subs just give a more natural weight and body to instruments.
    Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
    Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
    Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
    CD/DVD: Oppo 205
    Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro

    Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events

  39. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Fleming Island, FL
    Posts
    77

    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    I am using the Gryphon DAC module in my Diablo also and found it was responsive to both a quality server and the associated USB cable. After top Audience and WireWorld USB cables I acquired the Sablon 2020 USB cable. This cable works very well between my Wolf Server and the Gryphon. My Rockports are a little easier to drive than the Salons I believe. Im also in the Jacksonville area.
    Gryphon Diablo 300 w/DAC, Rockport Mira II, Wolf Audio Alpha 3SX, DSA Phono 2, Origin Live Sovereign MK3, Enterprise MK4, Conqueror MK4, SoundSmith Hyperion, Miyajima Zero

  40. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Auburn, Washington USA
    Posts
    419

    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    When I added the Lumin T2 to the Diablos DAC I asked Mike about usb cables and he recommended the Shunyata Alpha usb cable. Good call Mike. This cable really changed streaming in my system. Trying before you buy can't alway be available depending on where you live etc. But of course can save a lot on money and effort when available.
    Speakers: Magico S3 (23')
    Integrated:Gryphon Diablo 300 plus DAC
    Streamer: HiFi Rose RS150b
    CD/DVD: Oppo 205
    Cables: Cardas-Shunyata-AudioQuest-Supra
    Roon Core: sonicTransporter i7 powered with HDPlex 200w linear PS, running AudioLinux for Roon--Tidal and Qobuz with iPad Pro

    Time is just a tool humans created to measure movement and record events

  41. #41
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Jacksonville
    Posts
    23

    Re: Gryphon Diablo 300 and Salon 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Drrsutliff View Post
    I am using the Gryphon DAC module in my Diablo also and found it was responsive to both a quality server and the associated USB cable. After top Audience and WireWorld USB cables I acquired the Sablon 2020 USB cable. This cable works very well between my Wolf Server and the Gryphon. My Rockports are a little easier to drive than the Salons I believe. Im also in the Jacksonville area.
    I am definitely looking forward to a streamer upgrade! It may be a while however. I first need to replenish my audio "play money" coffers after the D300 hit! The Node I am running now sounds nice, which frankly only shows how wonderful the D300/Salon 2 combo is. I can only imagine what a quality streamer will do. When I swapped out an AQ carbon usb for the diamond it was a big, appreciable difference. I hear that Sablon 2020 usb is great. Have also read that the Sablon Evo usb is amazing, even rivalling Shunyata Omega.

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