Thread: Freya + VS. ARC REF 3?

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I've heard several ARC preamps but not Freya. I would find it hard to believe a $899.00 preamp, even giant killer status, would best the ARC. I was thinking about the solid state Freya for a second system but I wanted a sub out.

I heard the Freya + at RMAF with $10K Salk speakers and was not impressed. It was paired with the Vidar amps in Mono Block configuration. It lacked depth and musicality. The Schitt gear did not do the speakers justice. It is still an $899 preamp and it is overhyped. Don't drink the kool aid. While I have no doubt that it performs above its price point but no way it will compete with the 2 ARC preamps. Typically, cheap gear that is overhyped never really lives up to it.

I did get to hear the LS27 at one of my local stores and I was impressed.

What gear would you be pairing the preamp with?

I owned a Freya for a bit. It was ok, but I did not feel it was anything special. The controls were noisy and inconsistent. Passive mode was not really passive, tubes were always on even in solid state or passive mode. The tubes were recessed which really limited their access. Tube spacers could be added if you wanted to try some NOS tubes. All in all a good piece but not in the league of the others you mentioned. It ran extremely hot which I would be concerned about for longevity.

A very nice piece for the price, but did not come close the the ARC LS-17 SE that I have also owned.

The two best giant killer pre-amps that I have owned, in my view are the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2 and what I currently own. The Hattor pre-amp is in a completely different league then the Schiit Freya. Much better built, much better sounding, much better array of inputs and outputs, outboard power supply, much better metal remote than the one that the Freya comes with. And the base model is about the same price level as the Freya, give or take a couple hundred. The top model is under $2k and can completely compete with most anything you want to put it against.

Originally Posted by ingleplob

Low noise floor is for sure important, and I'm also curious about
transparency, soundstage width / depth, bass detail and dynamics.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...dio-expo-2020/
https://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...peakers-part-3
Both blurbs above were about a Freya centered system (the smaller speakers only). The latter by a Canadian outfit, so perhaps you could contact Doug S and ask his recollection, FWIW (given he may not be able to "parse" the sound of a component within a "system" soundfield, including room etc, etc. the way audiophiles miraculously can) .
My only minor quibble w Freya is the "clicky" volume. Otherwise it seems well designed.
Caveat here is I'm not an audiophile, I adhere to the scientific method. Test all equipment with an ABX box to separate actual sound reality vs imaginary, self deception, etc. https://www.pnas.org/content/105/3/1050.
That would include equipment that emit monetary notes, not musical ones.
This is important to me. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ

Ayre does have a very good reputation.

Wyred 4 Sound does a good business in Canada. There is an authorized dealer that most transactions go through. They also build for many other companies OEM and own other audio names such as SST (the developers of the Ampzilla amplifiers) and Carver (very very renowned name in audio), among others.

Here is a review that basically said it was one of the best pre-amps on the planet:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html

Hattor is not as well known but in some corners of the audio world are considered one of the best. Khozmo is Arek Kallas's first company. Renowned in the DIY market for one of the best attenuators available. He also sold passive pre-amps built around these attenuators. Hattor is his higher end product for the person who wants something better and he custom builds to the configuration that you prefer, in type of inputs and outputs, color layout, and what level of parts you prefer. They are hand made in Poland and have gained a reputation for people who want purity in sound but not so much into glitz. He does ship them in their own flight case. I received mine in less then two weeks and it literally arrived in two days from when he shipped it from Poland to California.

Originally Posted by puroagave

you owned the OG Freya, the + model does not use the tube outputs by default and is a total redesign. Its switchable to either passive (no JFET buffer) buffered with JFET (No Gain) or Tube with 12 db of gain

I hear they redesigned it and it looks to be a bit better. It was always switchable between passive, tube, or solid state (JFET). The tubes are still always on (correct me if I am wrong). It still runs very hot. It still has a really low end remote. It still is very clicky.

Again, for its price it seems like a good solid value pre-amp. Schiit makes some great value products for sure. I stick by what I said however. Good product for the price, but I will stay with the purity of W4S or Hattor, both of which can be legitimately discussed in conjunction with some of the absolute best out there. The Freya cannot.

BTW- I love the Neil deGrasse Tyson quote, I have seen him saying this quote. He is fantastic. If you do not mind I will include that quote in my sig also!

Originally Posted by sonata

Please see the 7-1-2019 review of the Freya+ in Positive Feedback.

Observations about the original Freya do not apply to the Freya+. The tubes are not on all the time.

I am glad they finally changed it so the tubes are off when not being used! It appears to be a solid value pre-amp and I have respect for Schiit. All is good if this fulfills your needs. Obviously I understand that they need to make compromises to hit this type of price point. It is good to see companies offering products that allow people to get into better gear that they can actually afford. It is good for our hobby!

Originally Posted by cpucath

I have a Freya + and previously had a Freya. It is a very nice sounding unit. On the older version (Freya), the tubes were always on independent of passive, buffered or tube. On the new version (Freya +), tubes are only on when in tube mode

Awesome and I am glad you like our Freya! That is great but obviously there is no way it compares to the ARC REF 3.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

they need to make compromises to hit this type of price point.

Luckily not with the sound waves, the only thing a few care about, including myself and also luckily, totally demonstrable and verifiable. Just like the Caltech (et al) link. 100% agree on all the other factors though, that make the "$90" wine etc, etc, etc. preferable/uncompromised/etc. To some.

cheers,

AJ

Sound performance is what matters most to me as well. And measurements do matter but I also believe that what makes equipment musical and great cannot be completely shown and determine by the measurements. I know this is a discussion for another day and another thread, but I will say that it has been shown many times that measurements are not the tell all end all when it comes to music reproduction.

With that said, and comparing to many pre-amps that I have heard; from McIntosh, Audio Research, MBL, Benchmark, Wyred 4 Sound, W4S Stage 2, W4s Aura, Schiit, Marantz, VTL, Audio Mirror, Dennis Had, Bryston, etc., etc., I can say with only a few hours into its run in, the Hattor AMRG Trans version is the best sounding pre-amplifier that I have ever heard. I know for sure that measurements will never demonstrate and account for this, just saying.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

measurements do matter

A controlled subjective test (like via my ABX box) "measures" only what is heard. By ears. Nothing else.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I know for sure that measurements will never demonstrate and account for this.

True if one either never measures, or measures the wrong thing (symbiotic). Note, Caltech never "measured" a single wine. They understood what actually needed to be measured. Important.
I certainly don't dispute the sight of a Freya vs a 2-20X price tag can have the type of profound impact as demonstrated in the Caltech test et al (of which there are a mountain of). On some people.
YMMV. Including Ingleplob.

cheers,

AJ

I agree in some but not all. As Mike says, you can hear everything we can measure, but we cannot measure everything we can hear.

Well if Dad says so, ok, ok.
Stay safe, enjoy some tunes.
Pouring rain here, may have to fire up the big horns

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I agree in some but not all. As Mike says, you can hear everything we can measure, but we can not measure everything we can hear.

that’s a fact Jack! Measurements are interesting however. Ken and I have been talking a lot about the recent DartZeel 468 and VAC 452iQ reviews and subsequent measurements. Very interesting stuff.


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i have had the Freya pre amp and the ref 5 and the ref 5se . sorry but the arc stuff is way better , the freya is incredibly transparent and pretty good for the silly amount of money but the arc stuff is streets ahead in terms of palapable realism

There is no particular reason to assume a $900 preamp will outperform another costing 10X as much. OTOH the former cans sound mighty good and represent crazy-good value vs. the latter.

I've had my Freya + for couple of weeks and am selling my ARC LS9 line stage, (solid state, of course). The latter is physically magnificent vs. the Freya + but sonically has no advantages compare to the Freya +'s passive and buffered modes. Also, I prefer the Freya +'s 128 step volume control over the LS9's 70 step control.

I hadn't used a tube preamp for quite a while before receiving the Freya + but I must say it isn't a strongly "tubey" component. There is a slight warming across the spectrum but no significant tonal shift nor added "harmonic richness". IMO, there is a slight loss of fine detail. Where I DO hear a significant difference is in "holographic" effect, i.e. instruments & voices "stand out" and seem to have more air about them -- I'd say this is main thing that tube mode does.

OK, so is the tube stage worth while? Probably the tube aficionado will say it's indispensable, but for me it isn't. It's nice to have for Jazz and popular forms but not so much for Classical music. The the case of Classical, especially large-scale and/or complex works, the loss of some fine detail is undesirable, and even more, the "holographic" effect just sounds fake. Since I am mainly a Classical listener I will mainly use passive mode, but hey, that's just me.

Incidentally my Freya + came with Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube: some buyer received JJ tubes. I'm no golden ear, so I'm not sure if or when I'll start tube rolling.

What I dislike most about the Freya +, (really the only thing), is the "user interface", i.e. the controls and remote control unit. The labels and indicator lights are too small to be read from my listening position; the bigger problem is that I like to see the degree of rotation of the volume control which I cannot see from listening position. I have to fixed the latter by pasting on legible indicator: see the picture ...



The remote control hand unit I don't like either. It's aluminum which gives it some heft but the buttons are the vague-feeling membrane type. Again, I fixed that by purchasing a $8 programmable remote with larger, proper buttons.

Originally Posted by Mechnutt

I heard the Freya + at RMAF with $10K Salk speakers and was not impressed. It was paired with the Vidar amps in Mono Block configuration. It lacked depth and musicality. The Schitt gear did not do the speakers justice. It is still an $899 preamp and it is overhyped. Don't drink the kool aid. While I have no doubt that it performs above its price point but no way it will compete with the 2 ARC preamps. Typically, cheap gear that is overhyped never really lives up to it.

I did get to hear the LS27 at one of my local stores and I was impressed.

What gear would you be pairing the preamp with?

Wow... This entire post couldn't be more wrong about the Freya+.

It's not overhyped, it doesn't lack depth and musicality. It's also not a giant killer. I don't know whoever claimed that, but I've never read that anywhere in any review.

The key to getting much better sound out of the Freya+ is ditching the stock tubes (both the Tung Sol and JJ tubes) and getting some quality NOS tubes or even better current production tubes.

Originally Posted by Feanor

I hadn't used a tube preamp for quite a while before receiving the Freya + but I must say it isn't a strongly "tubey" component. There is a slight warming across the spectrum but no significant tonal shift nor added "harmonic richness". IMO, there is a slight loss of fine detail. Where I DO hear a significant difference is in "holographic" effect, i.e. instruments & voices "stand out" and seem to have more air about them -- I'd say this is main thing that tube mode does.

OK, so is the tube stage worth while? Probably the tube aficionado will say it's indispensable, but for me it isn't. It's nice to have for Jazz and popular forms but not so much for Classical music. The the case of Classical, especially large-scale and/or complex works, the loss of some fine detail is undesirable, and even more, the "holographic" effect just sounds fake. Since I am mainly a Classical listener I will mainly use passive mode, but hey, that's just me.

Incidentally my Freya + came with Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube: some buyer received JJ tubes. I'm no golden ear, so I'm not sure if or when I'll start tube rolling.

Again, as I said above, ditch the stock tubes and get some quality NOS or current production tubes in there. The right combination of tubes will maintain the detail and proper holographic effect, no matter what the music content is.

I've got five different pairs of tubes that I have tried in various combinations and think I've come across the best combo so far with what I've got. Solid, tight bass, full natural mids, air, detailed and smooth treble. No lack of anything with this combo. Other combos get either too lean and thin, or too dull, muddy and soft sounding. This is the whole point behind tube rolling.

And with different socket adapters, there's a large assortment of tubes you can try. You don't have to stick with "just" 6SN7's. In fact, I'm using a pair of 6F8G tubes and adapters along with a pair of 6SN7's. You can also use miniature tubes with the appropriate adapters. There's a large array of tubes that can be used with this preamp. You just need to do your research and find out what works and what doesn't.

I know you asked about two brands but if you are open to suggestion and handy with a soldering iron - check these guys out. Bottlehead.com