Focal Maestro Utopia AMP recommendation

**Penthouse-D** · February 13, 2014, 09:47 AM

By the way, now the guy is looking for advice on Audogon. Looking at used options. ATT: dealers, don't waste your time.

**Mike** · February 13, 2014, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Penthouse-D

By the way, now the guy is looking for advice on Audogon. Looking at used options. ATT: dealers, don't waste your time.

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**VT Skier** · February 13, 2014, 11:05 AM

And other sites as well.

I don't know David personally, the way Mike, Mark and others do, but I have bought a number of products from him, and I've found his service, prices and advice to all be excellent. While I understand Pelo's desire to save money, if one is always trying to get the absolute lowest price in every single transaction, you may be focused on the wrong thing.

**pelo911** · February 13, 2014, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by VT Skier

And other sites as well.

I don't know David personally, the way Mike, Mark and others do, but I have bought a number of products from him, and I've found his service, prices and advice to all be excellent. While I understand Pelo's desire to save money, if one is always trying to get the absolute lowest price in every single transaction, you may be focused on the wrong thing.

i bought from David Shunyata Alpha digital Power Cord
offer me very good price.
he is a really nice guy.

i learned that in this hobby it's better to buy as low as you can
because if you buy brand new and you want to upgrade and sell the old , you will lose sometimes more then %50.
and also if i want to buy High-End Amp like Soulution , Vitus. i will cost me more then $50K , it's out my budget.
so my only option is to try to find used one.

another example ,
Accuphase A-200 or M-6000
cost over $50K in the US
cost $20K in Japan (with option to conver to 120V 60hz at the Factory)
so unless you are very rich and you don't care about the $30-40K extra i don't see any problem to buy from Japan , Accuphase very reliable.

**Mike** · February 13, 2014, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by pelo911

i bought from David Shunyata Alpha digital Power Cord
offer me very good price.
he is a really nice guy.

i learned that in this hobby it's better to buy as low as you can
because if you buy brand new and you want to upgrade and sell the old , you will lose sometimes more then %50.
and also if i want to buy High-End Amp like Soulution , Vitus. i will cost me more then $50K , it's out my budget.
so my only option is to try to find used one.

another example ,
Accuphase A-200 or M-6000
cost over $50K in the US
cost $20K in Japan (with option to conver to 120V 60hz at the Factory)
so unless you are very rich and you don't care about the $30-40K extra i don't see any problem to buy from Japan , Accuphase very reliable.

Pelo - can you explain this "option to convert" at the factory? It was my understanding that the only way to "convert" was to buy the Accuphase from Japan with the 100v to 120v converter which degrades the sound. If Accuphase is selling 120v models direct from the factory or even to non-US distributors, then they have a serious problem on their hands.

Also - what is the warranty situation? If something goes wrong, what is your recourse?

**the professor** · February 13, 2014, 01:15 PM

What I was told is that the factory will do the change but it is designed for people living in Japan and then moving to other parts of the world. Warranty would be with the original dealer/country that sold you the product.

**pelo911** · February 13, 2014, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Pelo - can you explain this "option to convert" at the factory? It was my understanding that the only way to "convert" was to buy the Accuphase from Japan with the 100v to 120v converter which degrades the sound. If Accuphase is selling 120v models direct from the factory or even to non-US distributors, then they have a serious problem on their hands.

Also - what is the warranty situation? If something goes wrong, what is your recourse?

No warranty in the US
but for $30K-40 extra , if there is a problem i can take a flight to Japan or ship it
it's worth the "risk" in my opinion.

about the convert , i can't explain it here on the forum

**Mike** · February 13, 2014, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by pelo911

about the convert , i can't explain it here on the forum

OK, PM me. I'm very curious.

**MDP** · February 13, 2014, 05:43 PM

This type of "Black Market" buying does a disservice to distributors and dealers. I love to get a good price too, but this is the wrong way to go about it , in my opinion !!

**Paul** · February 13, 2014, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by MDP

This type of "Black Market" buying does a disservice to distributors and dealers. I love to get a good price too, but this is the wrong way to go about it , in my opinion !!

You get what you pay for !

But I do understand the OP's view.

**pelo911** · February 19, 2014, 10:16 PM

i bought the Vitus SM-101 , hope i will get them next week.
i think i will like them , their sonic spec are match to my "taste"

1. now i need 2 power cords for them
i'm not sure what is the power they need in watt but i know they have 2200VA power supply in each monoblock.
dealer recommend Purist Canorus or Proteus Provectus power cords.
i need also power strip.

2. buy Amp stands

3. find a matching Pre
do you think it's better to stick with Vitus and buy SL-101 or SL-102?

then i will buy Lumin and connect it to the Pre
and hope no more upgrades for this year , i'm tired
maybe new speakers (Magico)

what do you think/recommend?
thanks a lot for your help

**Penthouse-D** · February 20, 2014, 09:43 AM

Ask the dealer....

**pelo911** · February 20, 2014, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Penthouse-D

Ask the dealer....

what dealer?
private seller , used amp

**pelo911** · March 2, 2014, 01:41 PM

20140301_123339.jpg
the Vitus amps finally arrived

i have 2 wall outlets
plug each amp to different outlet.
i'm using $5 power strip for (TV , Computer , Pre , DAC)
and i will maybe add Lumin or Aurender (i will still will use DAC and computer to play movies and TV shows)

i must buy Power strip to replace this $5 one
what is my option?

for amps power cords , i want to check those:
Synergy research element or Purist Canorus/Proteus Provectus or Tara Labs Cobalt/Gold
do you know more brand i should try?

Thanks

**Paul** · March 3, 2014, 12:34 AM

All good cables. Find the cheapest one in USED market.

and I know you are good at that

**pelo911** · August 26, 2014, 10:06 PM

Hi

i moved to new house
and start deal with my system again

bought pair of brand new Purist Canorus power cords

now i want to replace my PRE
XP-10

i thought i should buy Vitus Pre to match the amps
but i can't find any used , and brand new cost too much.

if i can get few tips how to match , will help me a lot

Thanks
other brand can be a good match also

**kzhtoo** · December 6, 2014, 04:24 AM

I see pelo saga continues here from Audiogon. This all started when he asked for help after he bought his now-old Focal 1038Be. IMHO, pelo cannot be helped. A number of us tried to help him then (some were very good advice, which I wish I had them when I started my system), but it seems to me he's only interested in asking questions but not the answers/advice that people spent time to give him. I do not know why. He'd be better served if he could just buy all the exact same gears of a room whose sound he likes from the "shows" he goes to.
IMO and as many have stated in this thread, Pass X350.5 and XP-10 were never the problem for Maestro or 1038Be. But as he's done so many times, he refused to listen and the saga just drags on and on. With the source and power conditioning situation he has the new Vitus monos, dare I say, won't sound much of a difference than the Pass.

**Mike** · December 6, 2014, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

I see pelo saga continues here from Audiogon. This all started when he asked for help after he bought his now-old Focal 1038Be. IMHO, pelo cannot be helped. A number of us tried to help him then (some were very good advice, which I wish I had them when I started my system), but it seems to me he's only interested in asking questions but not the answers/advice that people spent time to give him. I do not know why. He'd be better served if he could just buy all the exact same gears of a room whose sound he likes from the "shows" he goes to.
IMO and as many have stated in this thread, Pass X350.5 and XP-10 were never the problem for Maestro or 1038Be. But as he's done so many times, he refused to listen and the saga just drags on and on. With the source and power conditioning situation he has the new Vitus monos, dare I say, won't sound much of a difference than the Pass.

We all tried. I know a dealer who spent a lot of time. Sigh...

**Steve** · December 6, 2014, 08:24 AM

Vitus SM-101 is a great amp but will sound as good as your weakest link. If you put something great on top of a sh#t foundation you get a bigger pile of expensive sounding sh#t. This thread is really about listening and acting upon sound advice after asking and tasking the question. Act by spending the money. If you only have enough money for a great used amp and nothing else, then you're just wasting what you have. So just do it, keep us in the loop and people here will be happy to give you their time and experience.

As for buying grey or black product that is not properly voltage set from the factory.... well, only idiots do that.

**Glareskin** · December 6, 2014, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Vitus SM-101 is a great amp but will sound as good as your weakest link. If you put something great on top of a sh#t foundation you get a bigger pile of expensive sounding sh#t. This thread is really about listening and acting upon sound advice after asking and tasking the question. Act by spending the money. If you only have enough money for a great used amp and nothing else, then you're just wasting what you have. So just do it, keep us in the loop and people here will be happy to give you their time and experience.

As for buying grey or black product that is not properly voltage set from the factory.... well, only idiots do that.

I think the real match is thane Statement. Designed for the Utopia line since Focal acquired Naim. I have heard the amp driving the Grande Utopia's in Munich and that was impressive...

**johnthomas** · December 6, 2014, 09:50 AM

Wow just read this thread for the first time from start to finish. I can't believe its gone on this long, like a bad novel. Your a good man David or should I say a patient one for even bothering with this situation. Your my hero.

**pelo911** · May 24, 2015, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

I see pelo saga continues here from Audiogon. This all started when he asked for help after he bought his now-old Focal 1038Be. IMHO, pelo cannot be helped. A number of us tried to help him then (some were very good advice, which I wish I had them when I started my system), but it seems to me he's only interested in asking questions but not the answers/advice that people spent time to give him. I do not know why. He'd be better served if he could just buy all the exact same gears of a room whose sound he likes from the "shows" he goes to.
IMO and as many have stated in this thread, Pass X350.5 and XP-10 were never the problem for Maestro or 1038Be. But as he's done so many times, he refused to listen and the saga just drags on and on. With the source and power conditioning situation he has the new Vitus monos, dare I say, won't sound much of a difference than the Pass.

i admit , you are 100% right
i don't really have an idea what to do
don't know what the weak link in the system , maybe it's even the Speakers (i'm getting very weak bass from speakers should have huge bass)
maybe because i'm using PC with JRiver software

**KeithR** · May 24, 2015, 06:00 PM

Don't take this the wrong way pelos- but "look from within"

**pelo911** · May 25, 2015, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by KeithR

Don't take this the wrong way pelos- but "look from within"

i'm trying

thank you

**stanly.joseph** · June 12, 2015, 04:00 AM

MC 452

8 ohms 450 watts
4 ohms 900 watts
2 ohms 1800 watts

That should do it.

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**pelo911** · October 10, 2015, 10:39 AM

Hi

i can't find Vitus Pre amp
i think the XP-10 not in the same level as the amp and the speakers.

i'm thinking to replace the Maestro with Magico S5
i heard the S3 and i love them.
someone had a chance to hear both?

**audio.bill** · October 10, 2015, 10:53 AM

Regarding the Magico S3 compared to the S5 speakers, I have heard from many (including some Magico dealers) that the S3 actually have a more enjoyable midrange presentation, but they do give up some bass extension to the S5. The S3 came out after the S5 and incorporate a specially designed midrange enclosure which is so effective that they now use it in their newly released S7. The S3 is thought by many to be the "sweet spot" in the line, but the S5 has a more dynamic and extended bass response if their size suits your listening space.

**pelo911** · October 10, 2015, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by audio.bill

Regarding the Magico S3 compared to the S5 speakers, I have heard from many (including some Magico dealers) that the S3 actually have a more enjoyable midrange presentation, but they do give up some bass extension to the S5. The S3 came out after the S5 and incorporate a specially designed midrange enclosure which is so effective that they now use it in their newly released S7. The S3 is thought by many to be the "sweet spot" in the line, but the S5 has a more dynamic and extended bass response if their size suits your listening space.

i meant the S5 compare to my Focal Maestro
the Maestro bigger and more expensive

**pelo911** · October 11, 2015, 02:35 PM

i found S5 for sale for $17K
i guess price drop down because people want to get the S7

i just not sure if the S5 sound better then my Maestro

**elviukai** · October 24, 2015, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by pelo911

i found S5 for sale for $17K
i guess price drop down because people want to get the S7

i just not sure if the S5 sound better then my Maestro

I have heard Maestro utopia in 3 diferent setups, and wasnt impressed so much. However after few month i have return to one owners house and my jaws have dropped. Hughe 3D soundstage ,where intruments placed pin point - in the dark with light off i could swear singer was in the room. Cello and other instrument had such weight and authority like real.Trumphet sounded from soft (most speakers would do that) to very sharp and spark(it not so smooth instrument as most believe) I visit local philharmonic quite often and know how real intruments sound. Maestro definately IS NOT plug'n'play speakers.

Havent heard S5, but heard Magico Q5 with Dartzeel amps. one of the best bass, but hight frequencies was sibilant on vocals (on clasical orchestra it was even bonus) hope this helps.

**joeinid** · October 24, 2015, 04:53 PM

Welcome to the forum elviukal, thank you for joining.

**MRJAZZ** · October 24, 2015, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

MC 452

8 ohms 450 watts
4 ohms 900 watts
2 ohms 1800 watts

That should do it.

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Don't believe the above is correct. This is one solid state amp that DOES NOT double it's power into lower impedances. Power into lower impedances stays relatively the same. IT does however offer almost 2 db of head room at clipping which is substantial.

CHEERS.........

**Mike** · October 24, 2015, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by MRJAZZ

Don't believe the above is correct. This is one solid state amp that DOES NOT double it's power into lower impedances. Power into lower impedances stays relatively the same. IT does however offer almost 2 db of head room at clipping which is substantial.

CHEERS.........

You are correct. Mc amps don't double. In fact, their wattage is pretty consistent across all impedance loads.

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**stanly.joseph** · October 24, 2015, 07:21 PM

I personally called Mcintosh and asked them that question, they do double up. Even the meters on the amp go all the way to 1.8K

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**Mike** · October 24, 2015, 10:47 PM

Interesting. Perhaps Dan can confirm for us all.

**stanly.joseph** · October 25, 2015, 02:24 AM

Here we go! I actually have it in writing as well...ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445754271.664342.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445754280.964567.jpg

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**Mike** · October 25, 2015, 07:40 AM

Thank you Stanly. I think some further clarification is required in terms of peak power vs RMS, also known as continuous output. It sounds as though Chuck is giving you peak power numbers, but I still think continuous output/RMS numbers change very little on a Mc amp regardless of ohm.

But, I've been wrong before, so let's see if Chuck will give you actual RMS numbers for 2, 4 and 8 ohms.

**jdandy** · October 25, 2015, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by stanly.joseph

I personally called Mcintosh and asked them that question, they do double up. Even the meters on the amp go all the way to 1.8K

stanly.joseph.......The rated output for the MC450, as well as many other McIntosh's amplifiers that use their Autoformer between the output transistors and the speakers, is the same at the 2 ohm, 4 ohm, and 8 ohm amplifier terminals. McIntosh amplifiers with Autoformers do no double down their output at the speaker terminals with the correct load for the terminal rating. This is due to the special windings in the McIntosh Autoformers that are wound so that the output transistors are isolated from the speaker load and always see a constant uniform load that does not change with the load impedance. The MC452 has a continuous average power output rating of 450 watts per channel and with a peak output current of 75 amperes irrespective of which output terminals are used. The reason the meters have 3dB and 6dB marks above the 450 watt rating is to indicated peak output. Additionally, McIntosh amplifiers are very conservatively rated, not only for distortion but also output power. It is not unusual for a McIntosh amplifier's continuous output to substantially exceed its rating by 2db or more. Understand also that peak output is not continuous output. Dynamic peaks are not the same as continuous output.

Another excellent feature of modern McIntosh power amplifiers is their Power Guard circuit. This circuit continuously monitors the output for distortion that can lead to clipping of waveforms. Should the amplifier's output exceed 0.5% distortion at high output the Power Guard circuit automatically reduces the input voltage to control the output voltage from ever clipping. Essentially, a McIntosh power amplifier that features the Power Guard circuit cannot be clipped. This not only protects the output stages of the amplifier but also protects the speakers.

With respect to Chuck Hinton's answer that you provided it would be clearer if we actually knew the question asked. How about letting us see the email text you sent Chuck. His answer might make more sense if we understood the question.

**stanly.joseph** · October 25, 2015, 04:34 PM

The question was a simple one. Does the 452 double its power into 4ohms and 2ohms?

Why don't you guys call Chuck himself and clarify his answer. And Im pretty sure he was referring to peak power not continuous.

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**pelo911** · January 21, 2017, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by elviukai

I have heard Maestro utopia in 3 diferent setups, and wasnt impressed so much. However after few month i have return to one owners house and my jaws have dropped. Hughe 3D soundstage ,where intruments placed pin point - in the dark with light off i could swear singer was in the room. Cello and other instrument had such weight and authority like real.Trumphet sounded from soft (most speakers would do that) to very sharp and spark(it not so smooth instrument as most believe) I visit local philharmonic quite often and know how real intruments sound. Maestro definately IS NOT plug'n'play speakers.

Havent heard S5, but heard Magico Q5 with Dartzeel amps. one of the best bass, but hight frequencies was sibilant on vocals (on clasical orchestra it was even bonus) hope this helps.

do you remember by any chance what amp was in the system you liked?

Thanks

**EmiLiuZ** · January 23, 2017, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by pelo911

do you remember by any chance what amp was in the system you liked?

Thanks

Hi pelo. I saw that it's a very old post. Did you ever get a new amplifiers?

**pelo911** · January 23, 2017, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by EmiLiuZ

Hi pelo. I saw that it's a very old post. Did you ever get a new amplifiers?

nope

i left it as is for long time
didn't had energy to deal with the system

Thread: Focal Maestro Utopia AMP recommendation

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