Thread: Diablo, Esoteric plus Bryston or just Esoteric?

I have just upgraded my Esoteric K03XSD to an K01XD and I am very happy with the result.

I am now considering amplification. At the moment, I use a Bryston BP26 and a Bryston 4B3 which has an output of 2 x 300W. Speakers are PMC fact 12s with a rather low sensitivity of 84dB, supplemented by 2 Velodyne DD 10 subs. My room is 18’ by 12’ and about 11’ high. I listen mostly to jazz and classical and rarely go louder than about 85 dB. As the room is not very big, the narrow profile of the speakers (just under 7”) is very useful; it would be difficult to accommodate speakers which were much wider.
The BP26 is a very old design, and I am wondering if a lot could be gained by replacing it. I could spend about £10,000 ($12,500) an a pre-amp soon and possibly a similar amount on a power amp next year, if that would seem necessary.

My local dealer can give me a good deal on a Gryphon Diablo 300. He has a nearly new demo unit and the 300 is about to be replaced with the 333. He said it would contribute a bit of warmth which my system could do with. As the Diablo is an integrated amp it would obviously mean no further power amp purchase would be necessary. However, it is so enormous I’m not sure if it would fit into my rack and it would be too heavy for me to lift, were that ever necessary.

Another possibility would be to stay with Esoteric and try out a C03XS pre driving the Bryston 4B3. Has anyone tried this combination? My dealer suggested combining this pre-amp with an Esoteric S05 power amp at some stage, which is a class A amp putting out only 2 x 30W but apparently with a very high current delivery. I’m not sure what that would mean in practical terms as I’m used to thinking about the power of amps in terms of Watts.

I would be very grateful for any advice.

Our situation and tastes are similar. I have Magico S3 MkII's and an Esoteric K-01XD (upgraded from a K-03X). I had a Gryphon Diablo 300 for over five years. Great amp, but I wanted a more refined top end, so I replaced it with a Luxman M-10X amp and an Esoteric Grandioso C1X solo. This combination has proved to be a very satisfying upgrade.

With your 84dB speakers, if it were me, I would want to hear any low power amp solution being considered in my system. Some speakers are current limited and 30-50 watt Class A amps may be fine, but I would be careful here. The new Diablo 333 looks very promising.

Diablo 300 is long in the tooth. If budget has some flexibility, I’d look for other alternatives you and others have suggested above. I did own 300 for 6 years, very competent piece.

Originally Posted by paleo12

...

I would be very grateful for any advice.

Taking your request for "any advise" in a broad sense, I would consider thinking outside the two 'boxes' (amp and preamp). Speakers (and room) are the biggest determinant of the sound of any system. The room is fixed; however, if you were to keep your current boxes and sell your speakers, you would have US$25k plus whatever you can get for your current speakers available for a speaker replacement. The change in the sound would be much more noticeable than replacing those two boxes.

I auditioned various integrateds like Accuphase E800, Boulder 866,
Pass Int 250 but decided on a Diablo300. The new D333 will probably be an improvement but the price will be 50% higher.
The D300 is very powerful into low impedance loads (1743W @ 1 Ohm vs 283W @ 1 Ohm for the Int 250) and still a GREAT amp!
The new Diablo333 will be available in october.

Originally Posted by brodricj

Am I the only one thinking pass on all the electronics, sell the PMC speakers and put all of the budget into new speakers? I am Magico biased of course. Buy Magico M2. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico S3. If they don't fit the budget buy Magico A5. I think your biggest performance improvement will come from buying the best speakers you can afford. Everything else comes later.

This would also be my approach. Speakers first. Then work on matching amplification. In this example, I'd skip the M2's and begin with the S3 2023's.

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

If you would like to go the integrated amp route, give the Esoteric Grandioso F1 integrated a serious look if you can find a dealer demo or like new used model. It's big beautiful Class A presentation would definitely meet your stated sonic goals.

For separates, an Esoteric C-03XS would be a great move both driving the Bryston for now and if you would consider an S-05 amp next year (or used S-02 if you could find one).

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Hi,

I used to be Paleo 12 but now I am Paleo 137; I changed my email address and had difficulties registering.

Thanks for your advice. I found the Gryphon would not fit in the rack. I have just acquired the Esoteric C03xs and I am very happy with it. Thinking indeed about a power amp for next year. My current Bryston 4B3 is 2 x 300W and my speakers have a very low sensitivity. The S05 is 2 x 30W, the S02 2 x 145W in A/B. I assume it would be better to go with the S02 as it is more powerful. Would it be a big upgrade from the 4B3 please?

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately it is pretty well impossible to accomodate speakers who are wider than about 8" or so. The Fact12s are the best speakers available here in the UK that I am aware of that have such a narrow dimension and, combined with the subs, sound pretty good. Do you know of any speakers that might fit?

Originally Posted by nicoff

Taking your request for "any advise" in a broad sense, I would consider thinking outside the two 'boxes' (amp and preamp). Speakers (and room) are the biggest determinant of the sound of any system. The room is fixed; however, if you were to keep your current boxes and sell your speakers, you would have US$25k plus whatever you can get for your current speakers available for a speaker replacement. The change in the sound would be much more noticeable than replacing those two boxes.

Hi, I agree but I have no space for much wider speakers. Thanks for your suggestions though.

Rather than a new power amp, the things I'd consider first are 1) upgrades/improvements to the acoustics of your listening room. The room is the biggest factor by far with respect to the audio quality from your system, and if your room would benefit from adding acoustic panels, diffusers, and corner or bass traps, I'd start there.

The other area I'd also give consideration to is adding one or two Shunyata Altaira ground-plane noise reduction hubs. Personally, I've found both approaches: maximizing the room acoustics and reducing ground-plane noise to be foundational and key for any good system. So, if you haven't addressed these key areas yet, I'd recommend doing that over getting another amp.

Cheers.